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Station Stop => Layout Tours => Topic started by: NEMMRRC on January 01, 2020, 07:50:26 AM

Title: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 01, 2020, 07:50:26 AM
I'm building a layout..... finally.


Over the years many have asked me if I had a layout or if I was going to build a layout. Well, now I am.


A little over a year ago we bought a new house. This new house comes with plenty of room for a layout. Actually, there are two rooms for a layout. One is ready to go and the second needs a lot of work. So, I will start building my layout in the ready-to-build area and eventually move it to the official built-to-order layout room.


This is the basement at the new house:


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_2644.jpg)


It is roughly 40' x 50'. What you see above is what we got when we bough the house.


This is going to be the official train room one day, an unfinished attic measuring roughly 40' x 25':


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_2648.jpg)


This is what the basement looks like today:


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_7605.JPG)


I've marked the layout area with a blue painter's tape border. That area is roughly 25' x 25'. I wish those columns weren't there  ;D


I drive a 2003 1500 Chevy Siverado 4x4 pick up with a single cab and long bed. I can easily fit a 4' x8' sheet of plywood with room to spare in the bed of the Chevy. In the photo above, I have the Silverado parked right up against the garage door. There are roughly 6' between the camera and the border of the layout.


This is what I have in mind for my layout:

I have no name for my railroad at this time.
I have no track plan at the moment. I want to learn to use track planning software. That software needs to run on a Mac.
I built a module once for an Expo contest (https://www.kitforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6968 (https://www.kitforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6968)). For now, I may begin with that as starting point for the modules.
The lumber in the photo was left behind by the previous homeowner. There are some really nice 2x4 studs in that pile. I'll be sure to use them.
I have been considering commercial benchwork like the one from Mianne (http://miannebenchwork.com (http://miannebenchwork.com)), but it is hard to spend that much on benchwork when one can do it for less.
I still have not decided if I want to go with L girder or open grid for my modules. I am leaning to open grid and just putting some of the pink/blue foam on top.


Enough rambling for now.


More as it develops.


Jaime


p/s I considered first building a portable On30 layout of two or three modules but that would force me to buy an enclosed trailer to haul it around in and well, that's money I can spend on other stuff.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: S&S RR on January 01, 2020, 09:04:51 AM
Great news Jaime! You can make both areas work by using moveable modular sections. I recommend you make the first module and move it between your two locations to make sure you can fit it through the tight spots.


I'm using TurboCad on my MacBook for all of my track planning. I do everything in the 2D mode.


I can't wait to follow your progress, good luck.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: PRR Modeler on January 01, 2020, 09:34:58 AM
Congratulations,  building a layout is exciting.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: GPdemayo on January 01, 2020, 09:36:44 AM
I remember seeing pictures you posted of the module on the "other forum", it will make a great start for the new layout. Looking forward to seeing your empire grow Jaime.....

I planned the St.L&D with a modular base for the layout to sit on and made each section small enough to fit thru typical openings if/when moved.
 
The sections were bolted together and provisions made for the wiring to be easily detached for moving. 
 
Good luck and have fun..... :) 
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: S&S RR on January 01, 2020, 10:56:45 AM
Jaime


The attic space reminds me of the space that Gil Freitag has for his layout.  I know we both have some great reference pictures.  Let me know if you want mine.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on January 01, 2020, 10:59:38 AM
Awesome!  Can't wait to see you get some benchwork up for the new project.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: deemery on January 01, 2020, 11:13:29 AM
Great space!  Spend some time making it comfortable, even if it's not your final layout room.  In particular, I'd suggest getting those foam tiles (Harbor Freight) to put over the concrete, and maybe build some partitions so you can separate the train area from the garage with plastic sheeting (helps keep the dust/dirt down.)


Also consider some wiring projects, in particular for good working and layout light.  Make sure everything (lighting AND workbench) can be shut off from a switch where you leave the room to go back to the rest of the house.


dave
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: ACL1504 on January 01, 2020, 11:41:36 AM
Jaime,

I'm in on this one as well.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Jerry on January 01, 2020, 12:48:35 PM
Well hell that's big enough to put real trains in!!!


I will follow along.  Can't wait for the start up.


I know you'll do a fine job Jaime.  Great way to start a new year.


Jerry
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Raymo on January 01, 2020, 01:20:11 PM
A man with a plan! Looks like a great space and you'll be happy to make it modular.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: EricQuebec on January 01, 2020, 02:03:25 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on January 01, 2020, 11:41:36 AM
Jaime,

I'm in on this one as well.

Tom  ;D
ditto
Eric
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: ReadingBob on January 01, 2020, 02:36:57 PM
What great news!  I'll be following along as well.  I have to admit I sure am jealous of folks that basements and usable attic space!  ;D
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: tooStupid on January 01, 2020, 03:38:36 PM
Jamie,


You are a braver man then me. That is a lifetime of work for even the youngest of us.



Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 01, 2020, 04:08:12 PM
Quote from: ReadingBob on January 01, 2020, 02:36:57 PM
What great news!  I'll be following along as well.  I have to admit I sure am jealous of folks that basements and usable attic space!  ;D
Along with the basement and attic comes 1.7 acres of lawn and woods. Let's just say I need to either spend an average of 2 hours per week doing yard work or pay someone the equivalent of several large craftsman kits per year to do that for me  :o


It sure is nice to finally have the space though.I have lots of "storage space" for built-up dioramas  ;D  lol.


Jaime



Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 01, 2020, 04:09:31 PM
Quote from: JusticeCity on January 01, 2020, 03:38:36 PM
Jamie,


You are a braver man then me. That is a lifetime of work for even the youngest of us.
It will keep me busy for sure. Maybe even keep me young for a while  8)


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 01, 2020, 04:10:25 PM
Quote from: deemery on January 01, 2020, 11:13:29 AM
Great space!  Spend some time making it comfortable, even if it's not your final layout room.  In particular, I'd suggest getting those foam tiles (Harbor Freight) to put over the concrete, and maybe build some partitions so you can separate the train area from the garage with plastic sheeting (helps keep the dust/dirt down.)


Also consider some wiring projects, in particular for good working and layout light.  Make sure everything (lighting AND workbench) can be shut off from a switch where you leave the room to go back to the rest of the house.


dave
That is a good idea to have a maser switch for the electrical. The partitions is something that could happen once I'm underway.


Thanks.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 01, 2020, 04:12:02 PM
Quote from: S&S RR on January 01, 2020, 09:04:51 AM
Great news Jaime! You can make both areas work by using moveable modular sections. I recommend you make the first module and move it between your two locations to make sure you can fit it through the tight spots.


I'm using TurboCad on my MacBook for all of my track planning. I do everything in the 2D mode.


I can't wait to follow your progress, good luck.
I will definitely need to test moving the first module up to the attic. I have 2 staircases to maneuver. Fortunately both are straight shots and no landings and turns.


Learning TurboCad seems like a project on its own.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Janbouli on January 01, 2020, 05:08:44 PM
Whoooohooo, I like both spaces , but the attic can become a gorgeous layout room.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Zephyrus52246 on January 01, 2020, 05:43:07 PM
Congrats on the wonderful layout spaces.  Can't wait to see what you do with it.  I used the program Pencil and Paper (TM) to draw out the original Empire plan.   :) 


Jeff
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 01, 2020, 06:19:53 PM
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on January 01, 2020, 05:43:07 PM
Congrats on the wonderful layout spaces.  Can't wait to see what you do with it.  I used the program Pencil and Paper (TM) to draw out the original Empire plan.   :) 


Jeff
Did Dr. Jeff just make a funny ???   ;D


Actually, I went to www.printfreegraphpaper.com (http://www.printfreegraphpaper.com) and downloaded me a 1/4 inch grid and began to do some planning.


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_7814.JPG)


I marked off an area 25' x 25'. I also wrote down some possible names for the railroad and some restrictions to keep in mind.


I then chopped me up some 3' x 8' modules to use on top of the grid instead of penciling in multiple options. Kinda like playing dominoes.


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_7815.JPG)


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_7816.JPG)


I made two initial configurations. First is one with a duck under. Second is one with no duck under.


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_7818.JPG)


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_7819.JPG)


And that is where I am.


I decided on a minimum of 3 ft wide aisles.
I opted to go with 3' x 8' modules.
The posts are not on the drawing. I decided to just deal with them as I build the modules. So far only two will end up in the middle of a module. I need to draw them on the grid eventually but for now I don't want to feel limited as I move along.


By the way, what is the acceptable turning radius in HO in order to make a full loop and still run large engines? I would like to run some passenger trains even though the main focus is the logging operations.


Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement. I am taking note of all the suggestions.


More as it develops.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: jerryrbeach on January 01, 2020, 07:03:39 PM
Jaime,

I would caution you regarding the use of foam over open grid bench work.  A friend did this even though I advised him to use some plywood over the grid.  The one inch foam he used sagged between the cross members (two feet apart IIRC) and he had to add more crossmembers.  The additional crossmembers helped, but he ended up having to spackle some of the joints.  If you are planning to use thicker foam it might not be a problem.  I used plywood on the top of my modules and it has worked out well.  The plywood also helps to square the grid pieces.   
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Mark Dalrymple on January 01, 2020, 08:24:01 PM
Great stuff, Jaime!

A couple of questions -

at what height is your attic 25' wide?

I assume once built and in your attic it will not be intended for the layout to be moved?  Why, then, are you limiting yourself to one size and shape of module?  Personally, I love the look of curved frontages on a layout, along with angles and variety.  Maybe you don't, but - is there a reason why you are taking these possibilities out of the equation from the get go?  Another possibility would be to build the bench work in situ and then build smaller dioramas to add when completed.  You could still make the bench-work sectional.

Looking forward to your progress.  I have been working through a similar process over the past 28 months - only we have 5 acres of garden and 11 acres in total.  Oh how I wish 2 hours a week of yard work would be all that was required here!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Zephyrus52246 on January 01, 2020, 09:44:17 PM
Jaime, when you say large engines what do you mean.  Steam?  Big Boys?  I have minimum 30 inches on three turnback loops.  The curves have easements and my 4-8-4s can go through them--barely.  My USRA light 2-10-2 can also.  My other curves are 48" radius.  Long passenger cars look much better on the 48" radius.  Except for slow speed yard movements, I'd recommend #8 or #10 turnouts for steam as well. 


Jeff
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: MAP on January 02, 2020, 05:48:58 AM
Great news on the layout Jaime!  I'll be following along as well.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 02, 2020, 06:36:35 PM
Quote from: jerryrbeach on January 01, 2020, 07:03:39 PM
Jaime,

I would caution you regarding the use of foam over open grid bench work.  A friend did this even though I advised him to use some plywood over the grid.  The one inch foam he used sagged between the cross members (two feet apart IIRC) and he had to add more crossmembers.  The additional crossmembers helped, but he ended up having to spackle some of the joints.  If you are planning to use thicker foam it might not be a problem.  I used plywood on the top of my modules and it has worked out well.  The plywood also helps to square the grid pieces.   
I'll keep that in mind. Over here we don't get the thick foam at the big box home improvement stores.


Thank you.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 02, 2020, 06:40:44 PM
Quote from: mark dalrymple on January 01, 2020, 08:24:01 PM
Great stuff, Jaime!

A couple of questions -

at what height is your attic 25' wide?

I assume once built and in your attic it will not be intended for the layout to be moved?  Why, then, are you limiting yourself to one size and shape of module?  Personally, I love the look of curved frontages on a layout, along with angles and variety.  Maybe you don't, but - is there a reason why you are taking these possibilities out of the equation from the get go?  Another possibility would be to build the bench work in situ and then build smaller dioramas to add when completed.  You could still make the bench-work sectional.

Looking forward to your progress.  I have been working through a similar process over the past 28 months - only we have 5 acres of garden and 11 acres in total.  Oh how I wish 2 hours a week of yard work would be all that was required here!

Cheers, Mark.


Mark, my attic is 25' wide if I measure from a height of about 10' to the roofline. I will need to match the existing finished living space next to the attic. But that is further down the line. I will see about getting a photo of the attic from the reverse side of the one photo I posted already.


Once the attic is finished the layout won't be moved. For now, I need to make the modules fit my basement and move them if I decide to reuse them. So in practice, I will be building two layouts before I am done. For now I just need to get moving on something.


My wife wanted 10 acres. Thank all that is holy and righteous we could not afford that...


Jaime

Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 02, 2020, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on January 01, 2020, 09:44:17 PM
Jaime, when you say large engines what do you mean.  Steam?  Big Boys?  I have minimum 30 inches on three turnback loops.  The curves have easements and my 4-8-4s can go through them--barely.  My USRA light 2-10-2 can also.  My other curves are 48" radius.  Long passenger cars look much better on the 48" radius.  Except for slow speed yard movements, I'd recommend #8 or #10 turnouts for steam as well. 


Jeff
The largest locomotive I would run regularly would be a Pennsy T1. I own a N&W 2-8-8-2 Y class loco but who knows if I will run it. The basement layout is limited to 25' x 25'. The attic layout when finished will fit inside approximately 1,000 square feet with no posts anywhere if I have my druthers.


My focus would be on the logging operations even tough I would want to see some classy varnish round the layout uninterrupted.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: deemery on January 02, 2020, 07:32:54 PM
I had 2 thoughts about 'min radius.'  One is the physical minimum below which your stuff won't run.  The other is the min radius where the stuff looks OK.   On my layout, the physical min was 18, but I tried to keep most of the stuff that is visible to 24 or more.  And even then I'm expecting some funky looking parts with my 60' passenger cars.


dave
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Mark Dalrymple on January 02, 2020, 07:42:47 PM
QuoteMy wife wanted 10 acres. Thank all that is holy and righteous we could not afford that...

See? - there is such a thing as too much money!

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: jerryrbeach on January 02, 2020, 08:35:15 PM
Jaime,

Two more things to keep in mind.  If you think you might be moving these modules from the basement...  A 36" wide module will not go through a 36" doorway even if you remove the door.  The door stop strips leave you with an opening of slightly over 35".  My modules are 30" wide and I designed them with separate leg assemblies so I can move them through a door by tipping them on their sides.   (This seemed like a necessity to me as several of the doors in my house are 28" wide.)   One other thing to think about is how to level the modules.  I added leg levers to the bottom of my legs.  Then again, I live in an old farm house that doesn't have a single level floor. 
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: jbvb on January 03, 2020, 10:54:16 AM
Congratulations and good luck.  The modular approach will help you get trains running (at least a little way) early on, which was important to me.

I use XTrackCAD, which is free, open source (I've contributed a little development work) and runs on Windows, Mac and Unix.  It has a learning curve, but AFAICT so do all the other layout design programs.

If you're aiming for WWII, only the big steam and full-length passenger cars will put your minimum radius to the test.  Pretty much everything RTR will go around 28" radius these days, but articulateds will look foolish and need a lot of clearance to adjacent tracks due to boiler overhang.  If you're sticking to 3' wide modules, you could use 48" radius at the corners.  If you go to 2' wide, then you're restricted to maybe 30".  Either way, it's not unreasonable to make the layout wider at corners.  One trick is to use multiple radii - a big easement entering the curve at each end and a sharper middle portion you hide with a building, cut or tunnel.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Jerry on January 03, 2020, 11:54:42 AM
Jaime definity use the 1/4 plywood under the 1" foam.


Even if you double up on the to 1' it will warp take my work for it.


Jerry
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 03, 2020, 07:09:05 PM
Quote from: mark dalrymple on January 02, 2020, 07:42:47 PM
QuoteMy wife wanted 10 acres. Thank all that is holy and righteous we could not afford that...

See? - there is such a thing as too much money!

Cheers, Mark.
I still have 15 years left before the government will qualify me as of retirement age. Maybe I will make a few millions by that time lol...


Here is the reverse angle of the attic.


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_7825.jpg)


I'm standing as far back as I can go. The layout would fit in the area you see. Those two posts could disappear if a clever contractor could fashion some strong horizontal supports.


Notice my attic has an attic of its own. The HVAC and water heater for the second floor are found in the attic's attic.


Anyway, there is some layout room to the sides. Who knows what develops once I have the funds to finish this space.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 03, 2020, 07:13:35 PM
Quote from: jerryrbeach on January 02, 2020, 08:35:15 PM
Jaime,

Two more things to keep in mind.  If you think you might be moving these modules from the basement...  A 36" wide module will not go through a 36" doorway even if you remove the door.  The door stop strips leave you with an opening of slightly over 35".  My modules are 30" wide and I designed them with separate leg assemblies so I can move them through a door by tipping them on their sides.   (This seemed like a necessity to me as several of the doors in my house are 28" wide.)   One other thing to think about is how to level the modules.  I added leg levers to the bottom of my legs.  Then again, I live in an old farm house that doesn't have a single level floor.
I will be cautious with the widths. I can always turn the modules on end and move then on their edge. I'd only be limited by the scenery on top then.


I'll be sure to support the foam also.


There sure is a lot to keep in mind with all this.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 03, 2020, 07:17:46 PM
Quote from: jbvb on January 03, 2020, 10:54:16 AM
Congratulations and good luck.  The modular approach will help you get trains running (at least a little way) early on, which was important to me.

I use XTrackCAD, which is free, open source (I've contributed a little development work) and runs on Windows, Mac and Unix.  It has a learning curve, but AFAICT so do all the other layout design programs.

If you're aiming for WWII, only the big steam and full-length passenger cars will put your minimum radius to the test.  Pretty much everything RTR will go around 28" radius these days, but articulateds will look foolish and need a lot of clearance to adjacent tracks due to boiler overhang.  If you're sticking to 3' wide modules, you could use 48" radius at the corners.  If you go to 2' wide, then you're restricted to maybe 30".  Either way, it's not unreasonable to make the layout wider at corners.  One trick is to use multiple radii - a big easement entering the curve at each end and a sharper middle portion you hide with a building, cut or tunnel.
Thanks for the feedback. Eventually I'll need to design something in some software. I want to have the software calculate how much track I'll have to buy so I can take advantage of volume discounts  ;D


I was thinking about all this and if I double up on the 3 ft wide modules to turn a train I can have 6 ft to do that. If I can't turn a train inside of 6 ft then I'll just have to ditch that equipment lol.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Mark Dalrymple on January 03, 2020, 11:45:59 PM
Thanks for the extra photo, Jaime.

It looks like a fantastic space!  And now that you have your 'small' block of land you can make as many millions as you like!  I fully insulated the room I converted in the barn I converted into my layout room - and it has made a huge difference!  I can easily compare by going in the uninsulated workshop next door.  Both in winter and summer the difference in temperature is quite staggering!

Really looking forward to your continuing progress.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: GPdemayo on January 04, 2020, 09:27:49 AM
The post you want to remove could be cut and sit on a built-up 2x or pre-engineered beam that could carry the load across the short width and attached to the existing posts and beams.


Please don't make any changes without getting a structural engineer to check out the situation and recommend what material and methods would be best.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Rail and Tie on January 04, 2020, 12:54:55 PM
Quote from: NEMMRRC on January 03, 2020, 07:09:05 PM
Quote from: mark dalrymple on January 02, 2020, 07:42:47 PM
QuoteMy wife wanted 10 acres. Thank all that is holy and righteous we could not afford that...

See? - there is such a thing as too much money!

Cheers, Mark.
I still have 15 years left before the government will qualify me as of retirement age. Maybe I will make a few millions by that time lol...


Here is the reverse angle of the attic.


(http://www.myyehudaexperience.com/images/Builds/BasementLayout/BasementLayout_IMG_7825.jpg)


I'm standing as far back as I can go. The layout would fit in the area you see. Those two posts could disappear if a clever contractor could fashion some strong horizontal supports.


Notice my attic has an attic of its own. The HVAC and water heater for the second floor are found in the attic's attic.


Anyway, there is some layout room to the sides. Who knows what develops once I have the funds to finish this space.


Jaime

What a fantastic space!  I can imagine a logging switchback mountain area on that angled wall to the right of the HVAC area. It would look just like Miniture Wunderland's version in Germany!
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Janbouli on January 04, 2020, 02:18:27 PM
When did you decide to move to a wharehouse, you could build a tiny house in the attic , but maybe these are normal sizes where you live.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 04, 2020, 03:02:12 PM
Quote from: Janbouli on January 04, 2020, 02:18:27 PM
When did you decide to move to a wharehouse, you could build a tiny house in the attic , but maybe these are normal sizes where you live.
Well, some of my neighbors' homes are larger than mine and some are smaller. In the area where we moved these are the typical homes. Elsewhere around it varies.


How does all that relate to trains? Well, when we went to the Seattle Narrow Gauge Convention, the layouts were housed in homes that make mine look like a tiny house. Why at one home layout there was a full-time staff of 4 people to manage the layout. That layout had over a dozen iPads scattered all over the layout to control the trains. So, we all model what we are able to. We must take it all into perspective....


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 04, 2020, 03:04:38 PM
Quote from: Rail and Tie on January 04, 2020, 12:54:55 PM

What a fantastic space!  I can imagine a logging switchback mountain area on that angled wall to the right of the HVAC area. It would look just like Miniture Wunderland's version in Germany!
I've not seen that scene. However, the very first Great Model Railroads annual from Model Railroader featured a logging layout in Japan that had a scene filled with switchbacks going up several feet above the layout's lowest elevation. It was most impressive.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 04, 2020, 03:06:03 PM
Quote from: GPdemayo on January 04, 2020, 09:27:49 AM
The post you want to remove could be cut and sit on a built-up 2x or pre-engineered beam that could carry the load across the short width and attached to the existing posts and beams.


Please don't make any changes without getting a structural engineer to check out the situation and recommend what material and methods would be best.
I plan to hire out a reputable contractor to finish the attic space. Maybe I can trade him some out-of-production FSM kits for the work  ;D


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: deemery on January 04, 2020, 04:29:07 PM
Don't trust the contractor to make engineering decisions, though.


dave
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: GPdemayo on January 04, 2020, 05:59:16 PM
Quote from: deemery on January 04, 2020, 04:29:07 PM
Don't trust the contractor to make engineering decisions, though.


dave


That's 100% right Dave.....that's why God created engineers.  :)
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Oldguy on January 05, 2020, 11:20:49 AM
That is an intriguing space.  Sooooooo, you have decent access to be bringing up dimensional lumber and cut plywood sheets?
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 05, 2020, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Oldguy on January 05, 2020, 11:20:49 AM
That is an intriguing space.  Sooooooo, you have decent access to be bringing up dimensional lumber and cut plywood sheets?
My basement has two single garage doors. My pick up truck can haul sheet goods with room to spare. I don't have a table saw to cut up sheet goods but that is an easy purchase. Hauling stuff from the basement up is not too much trouble. I am only limited by the width and height of the doorways in my house.


I also have a regular two car garage and that cuts down one set of stairs up to the attic. It is to sets of stairs from the basement to the attic.


For now the basement will suffice. It stays a cool 58 - 60 degrees F in the basement all year round.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: S&S RR on January 06, 2020, 02:05:01 PM
Jaime


A couple thoughts after readying through your build thread.  1) If you like cutting the grass - I cut 1.5 acres in about 40 minutes with a 53 inch garden tractor. Either purchase the lawn service or the equipment to do it yourself. 2) The reinforcements in both the garage and the attic need to stay.  They are for that ice storm or heavy wet snow that you get down there every so often in the attic. A truss to do the same job is going to take up more valuable space.  In the basement they keep your wife's space from taking over your basement and smashing your build space. ;)  Think of them as opportunities for ceil to benchwork mountains. I have about 75 different rock molds that you can borrow. Have fun designing your empire.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: BandOGuy on January 06, 2020, 02:34:42 PM

So am I!
Well, maybe.
Rather than hiring a lawn service, would it be more cost and time effective to hire a layout designer? That may seem heretical here, but time is time and time learning software is money lost for better purposes.
The name Robert (Bob) Sprague from Maryland comes to mind and I know there are many more out there.
Just thinking on the keyboard.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: deemery on January 06, 2020, 06:13:15 PM
I used this guy:  http://www.thetrackplanner.com   This was my second attempt with a track planner, and it went MUCH better than the first attempt (30 years ago...)   He had some good ideas, and I had some good ideas.  Then I sent it around to friends for review and comment, and they had some good ideas, including one from Bernie Kempinski that almost caused me to start over.  But I went with basically what I paid for, and so far it's working well.  The big advantage of starting with a custom track plan is that it prevents "analysis paralysis" where I'd spend too much time worrying "will this work?"  It's the first of 3 big boosts I got to get me off my butt.  (Second was the day Craig Bisgeier and Dave White came over and we installed spline roadbed on most of the layout.  The third was a couple days ago when James Van Bokkelen came over and "forced me" to actually put power to the track and run a locomotive.)


dave
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 06, 2020, 06:56:56 PM
Wow! All super great feedback.


I had not considered outsourcing the layout design. I figured I'd learn as I go.


I have a 42" lawn tractor. If I don't stop to empty out the grass catcher I can do the whole property in a little under 1.5 hours. If I stop to empty out the grass catcher it takes an extra 45 minutes. I listen to my favorite podcast (The Dave Ramsey Show) while I do yard work so it makes it enjoyable. The part I am not crazy about is raking leaves.


It's all a big trade off, time vs money. Right now I have more time than money. However, I have way more craftsman kits than I have time and money (I've been hoarding kits for the last 25 years).


If I have some whiz-bang layout guru design my layout will it include the lumber cut list?


Jaime

Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: deemery on January 06, 2020, 07:24:09 PM
I think my planner can do that, if you pay extra.  Once I had the track plan, I made some extra copies of it.  On one, I sketched out the benchwork.  I used another to do a clay model of the topography on top of the track plan (like Dave Frary shows in some of his books.)  That was a good idea, it helped work out some scenery concepts. 

One of the key concepts on my plan was zero elevation change on the track.  I wanted the scenery to look hilly, but with my small steamers, not worrying about grades was a real feature.  The clay model helped me make sure the layout didn't look flat.

dave
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 06, 2020, 07:44:17 PM
Quote from: deemery on January 06, 2020, 07:24:09 PM
I think my planner can do that, if you pay extra.  Once I had the track plan, I made some extra copies of it.  On one, I sketched out the benchwork.  I used another to do a clay model of the topography on top of the track plan (like Dave Frary shows in some of his books.)  That was a good idea, it helped work out some scenery concepts. 

One of the key concepts on my plan was zero elevation change on the track.  I wanted the scenery to look hilly, but with my small steamers, not worrying about grades was a real feature.  The clay model helped me make sure the layout didn't look flat.

dave
That is a great tool, a model of the layout.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: jbvb on January 09, 2020, 06:15:43 AM
Calculating a lumber cut list can't be done without an absolutely accurate survey of the room.  You should also check exactly where your designer is putting legs and other supports.  My leg layout and framing above is planned for long L-girder spans and few legs: Space to put things under the layout, space to move around when I have to crawl underneath to wire, install switch machines, square up building foundations etc.

I've never had a mower with a grass catcher.  A few years ago I tried out a lawn service. I told them not to bother with removing clippings, but sometimes they sent mowers with catchers.  Did that a few years and my lawn looked really unhappy - bald spots, turned brown at the first hint of a drought.  So I went back to doing it myself again, which meant not as often and leaving the clippings.  My lawn looks much happier now.
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on January 09, 2020, 06:50:31 AM
Quote from: jbvb on January 09, 2020, 06:15:43 AM
Calculating a lumber cut list can't be done without an absolutely accurate survey of the room.  You should also check exactly where your designer is putting legs and other supports.  My leg layout and framing above is planned for long L-girder spans and few legs: Space to put things under the layout, space to move around when I have to crawl underneath to wire, install switch machines, square up building foundations etc.

I've never had a mower with a grass catcher.  A few years ago I tried out a lawn service. I told them not to bother with removing clippings, but sometimes they sent mowers with catchers.  Did that a few years and my lawn looked really unhappy - bald spots, turned brown at the first hint of a drought.  So I went back to doing it myself again, which meant not as often and leaving the clippings.  My lawn looks much happier now.
I've started to put together a cut list for three test modules of different dimensions. I'm going to test a 3' x 8', a 3' x 6' and a 3' x 4'. I'm hoping that will be give me a representation of what I'm up against.


Sometimes the only way to do something right is to do it yourself  ;D  It is challenging to find a good lawn service.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Jerry on April 11, 2020, 12:32:05 PM
Jaime any progress on this!!  ;)


Jerry
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on April 11, 2020, 04:13:00 PM
Quote from: Jerry on April 11, 2020, 12:32:05 PM
Jaime any progress on this!!  ;)


Jerry
I have the materials handy for the start. That's as far as I got.


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: tom.boyd.125 on April 22, 2020, 06:59:03 PM
Jaime,
Looks like you are off to a great start on your project.
Tommy
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Lynnb on April 28, 2020, 12:07:03 PM
Quote from: tom.boyd.125 on April 22, 2020, 06:59:03 PM
Jaime,
Looks like you are off to a great start on your project.
Tommy

Tapping foot.  ;D
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: S&S RR on April 28, 2020, 07:11:16 PM
You sure are keeping us waiting. ;)
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: postalkarl on April 29, 2020, 03:48:27 AM
Jaime:

I will be following along. Can't wait to see what you have in mind.

Karl
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Jerry on May 18, 2020, 08:29:30 AM
Quote from: NEMMRRC on April 11, 2020, 04:13:00 PM
Quote from: Jerry on April 11, 2020, 12:32:05 PM
Jaime any progress on this!!  ;)


Jerry
I have the materials handy for the start. That's as far as I got.


Jaime


Did we hit a stumbling block???  :)


Jerry
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Jerry on June 28, 2020, 11:46:57 AM
Well you made it to the morning lounge!!


How about an update here??


Jerry
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Jerry on July 22, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
Quote from: Jerry on June 28, 2020, 11:46:57 AM
Well you made it to the morning lounge!!


How about an update here??


Jerry




Jerry
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: NEMMRRC on July 22, 2020, 12:52:28 PM
Quote from: Jerry on July 22, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
Quote from: Jerry on June 28, 2020, 11:46:57 AM
Well you made it to the morning lounge!!


How about an update here??


Jerry



Jerry
Update - same old same old


In summary, we have been trying to sell our old house so every weekend this year I've been at the old house making some kind of repair or working some kind of "upgrade". We have a buyer and we are hoping to get the sale finished ASAP. Once all that is over my weekends will be free to make progress.


Trust me, I am just as interested as anyone else to see what develops  ;D


Jaime
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: deemery on July 22, 2020, 02:13:35 PM
Paws crossed your sale goes through!


dave
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: Jerry on July 22, 2020, 06:09:49 PM
Hoping it goes through.  we miss you!!


Jerry
Title: Re: I'm building a layout
Post by: nycjeff on August 14, 2020, 06:47:15 PM
Good luck with your real estate issues. I can't wait to see what you do with the great spaces you have to work with. Jeff