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Forum Boards => Scratchbuilding => Topic started by: bparrish on July 26, 2020, 05:53:13 PM

Title: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on July 26, 2020, 05:53:13 PM
So I'm going after a new build as I am chained to the work bench..... What bad luck! ! ! !

I'm going to build a batch of wood box cars that fit my time era, 1897-1914, and walk you through some steps and trick shots of keeping stuff straight and square.

I got all the wood parts from Northeastern Wood Products and the plastic detail stuff and grab irons are from Tichy.  Both companies are great for turn around times on orders.

I have built so many Labelle and Central Valley cars that this  is not a big new adventure that I need comprehensive drawings.  Also I am not building this for AP judging so I am going to leave out some under floor details.

Here is a photo of the basic box that all cars start from.  The order of construction is important however.  The end scribed wood must go on first.  The sides go on later and lap over the ends as does the roof sheathing so the end is also covered.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260720173942-45144434.jpeg)

Below is a shot of the ends being glued up to the boxes.  Nothing scientific.  I make sure that the bottom edge of the scribed panel is flush with the floor.  This assures that the scribed lines are straight up on the ends.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260720173943-45146954.jpeg)

Here are the six raw car bodies with the ends glued on and waiting for trimming.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260720173942-451452402.jpeg)

More later
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: PRR Modeler on July 26, 2020, 06:05:10 PM
I'll definitely be following this Bob.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: ACL1504 on July 26, 2020, 06:09:20 PM
Bob,

I'm on this bandwagon as well.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on July 27, 2020, 03:22:50 AM
Now for the most tedious part of a car build............. tying the truss rods.  I use .010" fishing line for a number of reasons.   It scales out at a fat 3/4" and it is flexible.  If you try and use brass wire in this dimension and you even as much as touch it in any following step it will bend, stretch and NEVER go back where it was.  Fishing line is stretchy and will put up with handling.  It takes paint reasonably well.


I am putting this photo up again as it is now relevant.  The lines are in order from left to right: bolster, string holes, queen post, queen post, string hole, bolster

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260720173942-45144434.jpeg)


Fishing line is notoriously slippery so here are a few things to remember.  NOTHING sticks to it and you cannot make it knot tight at the location you want for the stuff we are trying to do.  I learned this while fly fishing and modeling.  Also, when pulling knots tight spit on it a bit and the line will slide into a much tighter knot.  My wife hates when I spit on stuff ! ! ! !


So..... any time you want to secure it, tie a knot as close to where you want it.  Lay it down on the floor of the car and then put a drop of super glue on it.  The glue really will not stick to the fishing line but the knot cannot pull through the glue.

This photo is hard to figure out but there is a knot in that pile of glue

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-270720030345-451471621.jpeg)

When you are setting the tension for the last time put a round tooth pick in the hole to hold it.  I learned this from my dad when he took up re-caning chairs after his retirement from the Burlington.  He had a ton of little pegs to hold things still while he worked.
Tie a knot as best you can and put a drop of CA glue on the knot.   Then you can remove the tooth pick.

Note also that the queen posts are laying down.  This is to allow for enough load on the string later to pull them straight. 


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-270720030346-451541504.jpeg)

Now to the finish.  Stand up the queen posts, move them a bit off off of the pencil line and put a drop of CA.  Slide the queen post onto the line and kick it off.

Then you can tension up the lines.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-270720030346-451551793.jpeg)

Here is the batch done and ready for the next step.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-270720030346-451561250.jpeg)



Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: WigWag Workshop on July 27, 2020, 07:13:56 AM
I'm interested! They look great so far.


-Steven
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: PRR Modeler on July 27, 2020, 08:18:06 AM
Great modeling and how to guide.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: deemery on July 27, 2020, 11:30:43 AM
I did a similar project earlier this year, where I started with shaping some wood parts on my miter saw and then added siding, etc.  Similar approach for the underframe, too, solid floor.    One thing I had to do was mill down the NESL roofs, because the cars I was building were narrower than the default roof size.


dave
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: GPdemayo on July 27, 2020, 11:36:34 AM
I'm in too Bob.....new treat to see a boxcar being built from pieces.  :)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on July 27, 2020, 02:14:53 PM
So I got a step out of order and Dave prompted me to get this right with his remark about the overhang.

To clean the scribed panels on the end I do a thing called decking down.  It shows up in the car business when you need to flatten or check for flat of a casting that will bolt to something.

I put down a sheet of sand paper and then work it down. In this case I need to true up just the boxes and bring the scribed ends to the box.  The photo below shows the roof over hang off of the sand paper.  I do this over the edge of the work bench.  This keeps the overhang out of the sand paper for the moment.  You need to have a sharp edge on what ever you are using for a work surface.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260720173345-45141135.jpeg)

Here is the cleaned and decked end.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260720173345-45142981.jpeg)

Now here is what Dave was talking about.  The wood from Northeastern has a wide overhang as they cannot know how thick of a siding you will be using.  I use on thirty-second panel so it sticks out way too far.  Below is another decking down process that makes this really easy.  Find a piece of sheet metal just thicker than what you want to have left.   That is, your siding plus a few thousandths of an inch.  Place the metal on the sand paper and hook the overhang on the side of the metal.  The wood will be removed down to a point where nothing is touching the sand paper.  Can't miss .... perfectly straight.  I often use a steel ruler.  In this photo there is the bottom steel weight out of an old blue box Athearn box car.   If your metal is not wide enough then put the spacer metal near the edge of the sand paper and let the lower edge of the car run on your smooth work surface. 


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-260720174047.jpeg)

More later
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: ACL1504 on July 27, 2020, 02:44:38 PM
Bob,

Very neat stuff here. Great thread.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on July 27, 2020, 02:52:36 PM
Thanx Tom....

I need to add something here.   I am not building these for AP evaluation.  A model destined for evaluation must be designed for that from the first moment.  It cannot be dolled up later.

I chose not to have a board and beam underfloor on these that I would if it was to be evaluated.   



To do a board and beam it only needs to have scale 6x6 beams in a configuration of the prototype and a piece of scribed siding facing down.

Here is a photo of a narrow gauge flat car I built about 15 years ago for my cars certificate.   The boards were individual rather than scribed as the prototype had only one layer of wood decking.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-270720144412.jpeg)

see ya
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: Oldguy on July 29, 2020, 08:56:23 PM
All good tips, albeit about 40 years too late for me.  I loved the LaBelle car kits, other than forming the clerestory end trim.  No Central Valley,but had some Classic Miniatures (?) cars.   You have put a bug in my ear with a LaBelle Gas motor kit that I have, with the power unit.  I always hoped that they would put out the Pagosa Combine in HO as the Frisco had one very similar to it.
Sorry for the hijack.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 01, 2020, 01:12:22 PM
I'm back from a few days away from the bench..  A trip to Stanley Idaho, 7200 feet up in the Sawtooth mountains about three hours from Boise.   Some work projects at a church camp that I have worked with for nearly 40 years and some kick back fishing time.

I need to take a side trip here and talk about making up side and roof panels.  The scribed sheets that come from Northeastern and other suppliers are not wide enough to cover the entire side or roof of a 32 foot or longer car.  So measures must be taken to glue those segments together before mounting them to the car base blocks.

Here is a photo of a my first scratch build in 1962.  Those were the days of Ambroid glue ane Walther's Goo.  Neither were very permanent.   The crack in the siding is where there was a seam in the siding.  This is a 28 foot box car that was an experiment on a lot of things at the time for me.  That space was not there originally. The car is still rolling around on  my railroad.   It's just a habit I suppose.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-010820125349.jpeg)

So where this is going to show you how to edge glue side and roof panels.  I started working in a piano restoration house in Chicago in late 1961 at 15 and stayed there through two years of college before Viet Nam caught up with me.

Shown below is the cutting of the side panel at the height of the car you may be working on plus a bit.  This cut shown is eight and one half scale feet.  I use a machinists square to make sure that the boards are absolutely up and down when applied to the base of the car.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-010820124122.jpeg)

I then cut off the first board from the sheet as the manufacturers often do not have an entire board on the edge.  I do this to both edges on all parts before starting so I don't overlook it later and miss on the board spacing.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-010820124055-452792397.jpeg)

Now this is the cool part.  Place one of the sheets scribes down on a piece of blue tape.  The tape MUST be as show as it is stretchy the way it comes off of the roll.  Place a second sheet with the scribes down as tight as you can get it.  If there is a space then make another cut and try and get it cleaner.  Losing a few boards on the sheet won't matter.  Now to go on.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-010820124055-452782.jpeg)

Fold the sheet open a bit to produce a small gap.  You will then pull a thin line of yellow glue in this area


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-010820124055-45277884.jpeg)

Place flat on your bench and wipe off any glue that pops out.  Place a second piece of tape on it and set aside to dry.




Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 01, 2020, 01:16:53 PM
The assembled part should look like this while waiting to dry.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-010820124055-452761591.jpeg)

Given at least a few hours, or over night the tape can be removed.  I cut the tape at the edge of the side panel and peel off on a diagonal while holding down the wood.  Once both sides are clear of tape you have a single continuous panel greater than the length of your car.  Some cars may require two glue lines to get suitable length.

The seam will be only noticeable by a change in the wood or grain color but the glue bond is surprisingly strong.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-010820124055-452751426.jpeg)

I learned this as working with veneers on pianos, all seams must be built like this before applying to the piano case.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: PRR Modeler on August 01, 2020, 03:00:19 PM
That is really cool.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: postalkarl on August 01, 2020, 04:54:31 PM
This should be a reall cool build. Will be following along.

Karl
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 01, 2020, 05:16:49 PM
Karl.....


That little edge gluing trick works on structures also. 




See ya.
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 02, 2020, 03:53:22 PM
The next step is to set the weight of the car.  I throw on most everything that a car will have:  wood panels, side and top, trucks, brake stuff and couplers.

There is a point of diminishing returns here.  There is this instinct that if a car wants to fall off the rails to add weight.  That creates problems as there is an escalation of weight.  The NMRA set standards but they are a bit quiet on cars under forty feet.  I set a minimum of 4 ounces and follow the rules thereafter of an additional half ounce for every inch over a scale 40 feet.

This is REALLY important for me as my trolley division has 11 inch radius curves.  That makes shoving cars very interesting and shows up this escalation problem very quickly.  Thus I set the minimum at 4 ounces.  I don't allow any cars over 38 scale feet into that division.  It solves a lot of stuff.  My car card switching system allows for such rules when matching up a car for a shipper - consignee order,


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-020820154218-452801862.jpeg)

A million years ago I obtained two boxes or 1000 quarter twenty and quarter twenty eight nuts.  I will NEVER use that many so the go in for weights.  I glue them in with contact cement and spread the weight out both width and length.

More later


Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 02, 2020, 04:02:28 PM
Now for the roof sheathing.

Plot a pencil line down the middle of the car.  This is important because the scribed wood might try and "float" on the glue when first put down.   I use yellow Franklin glue and put on only the thinnest of a pull over the core box on one side only.  Then set the scribe strip on the core and hold it for a moment. This lets the glue soak into the scribed wood and minimize the float.  Then press a clamp block and clamp with C clamps or spring clips.  Watch carefully for the wood to be edged up to the pencil line.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-020820154219-45283939.jpeg)
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-020820154219-452842138.jpeg)
Once clamped, wait about three to five minutes and then take a really sharp straight screw driver and go around all edges looking for glue that has pressed out.   The glue goes into a doughy period where it will scoop up really easily without smearing soft fresh glue into the grain of the wood.  This causes the finished paint to look different on the finished model. AP judges look for this.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-020820154219-452851667.jpeg)


Set aside to dry for at least several hours.

More later
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: deemery on August 02, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
2 questions on bolsters:
  1.  how did you set the centerline for the bolster from the car end?

  2.  what are you using for bolsters?  Making some from wood parts, or a casting?

dave
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 02, 2020, 05:22:16 PM
Dave....

I chose five and one half scale feet. 


In the book by John H White.....  The American Railroad Freight Car, he shows a lot of drawings.  They were rather all over the place.

The early link and pin cars were close coupled and were set mostly at five feet to the bolster.  They were rather unforgiving in tight curves and the kick off off of the end of the car pulled sideways significantly on the draw box in a mixed freight train.  After the 1890's and the standardizing of the Janey coupler, there was more flexibility.  Moving the bolster in from the end took weight off of the center that had to be supported by the truss rods.

I also chose five and one half as it just looks right in HO.  It also gives me space for ladder stirrups that won't interfere with the trucks.


Regarding the bolsters.....  I got a bunch of plastic castings from Tichy when I ordered the brake kits.  The appearance is right and it is easy.

Thanx for looking in.

Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: deemery on August 02, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
The rule of thumb someone gave me was that bolster spacing = truck wheelbase.  So a 5 1/2' truck would have bolsters spaced 5 1/2' from the end of the car. 

5' trucks would probably look better, but 5 1/2 would work for a somewhat heavier car capacity.

On my "bulk build" of 28' cars, I found some cast metal bolsters (possibly old Colonial Castings products.)  Bitter Creek has similar metal bolsters, that I'd use for another batch of 28' or new 34' (proposed but no design work yet) cars. 

dave
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: WigWag Workshop on August 03, 2020, 07:16:29 AM
Coming along nicely! Appreciate the tips.


-Steven
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 03, 2020, 02:16:53 PM
OK....

Here is a trick shot that is not in any instruction swindle sheet.

How to stiffen the roof end overhangs. Although these will be shortened a bunch, they are super fragile as the grain runs with the car end and will break off several times before you are ready to set the final length.

Here is a view from the under side of the overhang.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-030820140532-452922036.jpeg)

There is also a gap that needs to be closed and reinforced also.  This will be hidden under the roof walk but needs to be closed before painting.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-030820140532-4529349.jpeg)

Now for the trick.  Stiffen the wood with super glue.  Put on only a small amount and do NOT kick it off with an accelerant.  It needs time to soak into the wood to work well.  Try not to get any on the scribed wood as it is hard to hide later.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-030820140533-452941180.jpeg)

Then here is the best part of this....... take a sharp, square edged screw driver and pull the glue toward the center from both sides.  This will squeegee the glue out on the wood, make a small anchor to the car end and fill the center gap.  Wipe the screwdriver clean each pass.  Take off as much glue that will come with the screwdriver.  This prevents a lump that must be filed or sanded off later.  I will be putting header boards on the car end so it needs to be flat.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-030820140533-45295447.jpeg)

Set aside to cure  up slowly.

More later
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: ACL1504 on August 03, 2020, 06:31:31 PM
Bob,

I'm enjoying the thread very much. Great stuff here for sure.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: PRR Modeler on August 03, 2020, 07:12:00 PM
Great how to Bob.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: S&S RR on August 03, 2020, 08:59:16 PM
Bob


Great thread. I'm just getting caught up.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: NKP768 on August 04, 2020, 07:15:32 AM
Some great tips Bob....I have an ancient Wabash Valley Models truss rod horse and mule car that I have put off building but your build  has spurred me on to tackle it. Thanks
Doug
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 04, 2020, 01:57:28 PM
So I'm going on another side trip here....

I have shown solid floors which are OK for cars just knocking round my railroad............. but............ What about building a car for AP points?   So I'm going to make up one floor with the various details so that it would score well enough for a merit award towards the cars certificate.

So let's start here.  You will need a prototype to work from and suitable dimensions.  This floor will yield a 38 foot car at eight and a half feet wide.

Cut the main beams and end beams accordingly.    Often the two center beams were taller than the two or three on each side of center.  I am doing that with this floor structure.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820134506-453251357.jpeg)

I use a machinist's square clamped to the edge of my bench to get everything square.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820134506-45324579.jpeg)
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820134506-45323348.jpeg)

Here you have a choice ..... You can hand lay each board that will show to the bottom or use scribed siding facing down as I did here.  I used the edge gluing procedure that I noted earlier in this thread to get a seamless row of boards.   The height up into the car here is un important.  If this were a flat car this would be much different.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820134506-453261582.jpeg)

The scribed siding will be cut off and sanded to the dimensions of the beams.

Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 04, 2020, 09:39:39 PM
To continue with the under floor.    I am working from a Great Northern 1883 plan which has a great detail that was common practice among car builders.   So here is an end view drawing.  It shows the transverse truss rods that went from side to side over the bolster and center beams.  I run the wires out the top as it is a box car and what is inside goes un-seen.  If this were a flat car this would need to be done before the deck boards were put on.
This is a usually forgotten piece of building freight cars of this period but when going for AP............  Arguably judges will not look for this and won't ding you for leaving it out.   Judges are to look at what you present them and how well you did it rather than what THEY think ought to be there.  So when making up the paperwork, the noting of this detail will add numerous points for conformity and detail.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820212444-45327662.jpeg)

I am building the bolster with NBW (nut-bolt-washer )castings from Grandt Line and .014" brass wire. 


This shows the drilled holes that go through the bolster, second beam and come out above the deck over the center beam for that side.   I don't glue them in as yet due to the space that the NBW will take up and the wire looks like it is in line with the NBW.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820212445-453392092.jpeg)

A side view of the NBW in the bolster ends.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820212445-453401968.jpeg)

Looking in from the end you can see the truss wires and how they align with the NBW's.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820212445-453412107.jpeg)

This shows the wires installed by before the NBW's are installed.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820212445-45342407.jpeg)

More later
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 04, 2020, 09:42:06 PM
Here is a shot of the wires glued in from the inside.  Again,  a flat car would not have this sticking out.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-040820214117.jpeg)

More tomorrow
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: Bruce Oberleitner on August 04, 2020, 11:05:10 PM
Yo Bob,
Another amazing thread as always.  Remind me to come over one of these days and watch you use that screwdriver as a squeegee!  That's quite the trick.

I guess I now know what you were ordering all that wood for.

;D ;D :o
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: postalkarl on August 05, 2020, 12:06:55 PM
Hey B:

Looks great so far. Keep the pics coming.

Karl
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 05, 2020, 05:15:19 PM
So here is the finish up for the under floor for an AP model.   After this all construction will be the same.

So here is a shot of the under floor with all of the NBW's and start for truss rods. The queen posts are four inch lift from Grandt line.  Someone has taken over Grandt Line so these are sill available.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050820170800-453581337.jpeg)

Notice when I put the wires for the truss rods, .015" wire, I left the ends stick out. It's a bit wasteful of wire but it gets you to the next step. To put the NBW's on the end sills it helps put the casting in line with the actual wire.  Evaluators will see this subtle piece.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050820170800-453561181.jpeg)

Here is with the wire strung and the final appearance of the under floor before brake rigging.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050820170800-453576.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-050820170800-453551248.jpeg)

More later
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: deemery on August 05, 2020, 06:57:22 PM
No turnbuckles on those cars?  I've noticed that some railroads didn't use them, but I thought that most cars by the late 1880s had turnbuckles on truss rods.


On my 1870s era 'coal gons' I didn't use turnbuckles.



dave
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 05, 2020, 07:26:00 PM
Dave. 


Not on yet.


That are pretty fragile so they right before paint. 


There were some that did not have turnbuckles.  The had a Clovis pin joint in the center with a forged fork and blade end on the intersecting rods.  Either way there was a fat spot.  I suppose that they were wound up by the car end nuts. 


Thanx for looking on


Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: deemery on August 05, 2020, 07:38:39 PM
Are you going to do 'open turnbuckles' on your contest car?    I'm interested to see how you do the turnbuckles.


dave
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: S&S RR on August 06, 2020, 05:36:24 PM
Test post for Bob - is the data base error related to the thread?????
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: postalkarl on August 06, 2020, 07:00:26 PM
Hey Bparrish:

coming along nicely. I'm enjoying you build. Been along time since I built A wood freight car kit.

Karl
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 06, 2020, 08:45:26 PM
Let's try again
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 06, 2020, 08:52:54 PM
Dave....
I'll make up the AP floor with some brass turn buckles....  I'll use old Central Valley and they won't be open.  Not me in HO.  I don't have eyes for that. The others I'll use Tichy or something of the sort.

I don't need this for a contest model.  It's only for instruction here.

I did my cars certificate about 12 years ago

More later
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 06, 2020, 08:54:49 PM
John ....

It appears to be only this thread as I have not had trouble with other threads............ however.......... I cannot get a post to go up on my iphone.   I'm doing this from my computer and I was held out yesterday and earlier today.  It has been balky for months since a glitch that was a topic of conversation at the time.

Thanx
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: Jerry on August 06, 2020, 10:57:10 PM
Bob just getting caught up with this.


Very nice work and a lot of good tips on how you do these.


Jerry
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 09, 2020, 03:15:40 AM
So let's talk about grain directions.  Everyone knows about with the grain and across the grain.

But there is another dimension.  Wood grain is also moving  up or down as you look at the surface of any board or in this case, scribed wood.   When paring off a scribed panel with an x-acto blade, the blade may run up or down in the cutting direction.  You always want to find the up direction.

If you simply follow what the wood wants to do you may find your blade digging into the surrounding surfaces.

So for cutting off the panel extensions on the sides of the box car, you do not want to nick into the scribed end panel..

Below are two photos that show a run-away blade looking for trouble.

Come back the other way and get the panel level close and then finish with a fine sand finger nail board.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-090820030717-454102176.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-090820030718-454131620.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 09, 2020, 03:26:58 AM
Now let's go to another procedure that can be made simple.

All of us have tried to make miter cuts that NEVER  match ! ! ! !

Working with car end soffits can be simple and very precise.

If your scribed end panel was applied correctly and is absolutely vertical you can then depend on it for cutting the soffit boards.

Photo one here shows a first side applied soffit strip that the glue has kicked off and is firmly affixed.

The photo attempts to show that the heel of the #11 blade is in a scribed line near the clamping devise of the knife.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-090820030718-454142075.jpeg)

Cut off any extending wood strip that passes the center line of the car.

Now on to fitting the other side strip.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-090820030718-45415889.jpeg)

You can see several things here.  My finger is applying pressure on the heel of the blade near the clamp and is seated in a scribed line.  The 1x6 being cut off is no where near the finished location.  I am trying to miter it to the direction of the car.  In all cases.............. up is up ! ! ! !

So when the blade cuts off the strip, the angle will be exact to the car and the first, now laid wood strip.

This final photo shows the finished intersection of the two wood strips.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-090820030718-454161685.jpeg)

This will work every time.  You can put your NWSL chopper back on the shelf for a while.

I will later nip off the fly ends of the wood strips and bring them to the soffit that runs the full length of the car below the roof line.

see ya
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: S&S RR on August 09, 2020, 08:08:18 AM
Great knife work there my friend. I'm enjoying your thread.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 10, 2020, 11:33:48 AM
Now for the cleaning up of the lower side edges.  I have removed the queen posts for the truss rods.   This is an issue of the order of things.  With the sides on you cannot get back to the inside so the fishing line has to be tied off at the correct length and then relieved for this step.

This is another of those decking procedures where you choose some steel ruler or the like as a spacer.  I work one side of the car at a time and the other is off of the sand paper scuffing along on the bench.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-100820112408-45433636.jpeg)


Here is a look down the floor and the sides prepared.  The over hang scales out to be about three inches.   The fishing line is barely visible here.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-100820112408-45434178.jpeg)

Now to clean up the last of the roof sheathing.  I use a steel ruler that is .020" thick which scales out at about an inch and three quarters.   Much wider would be unsupportable in the real world.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-100820112408-454212179.jpeg)

A look at the completed roof ends.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-100820112408-45432733.jpeg)

More later
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 10, 2020, 08:19:27 PM
Next is what to do for end beam sills.  This is where the bolts and washers come out the end from the truss rods.

I used some .094" angle strip wood from Northeastern.  It scales out at about 8 inches in HO.  I cut them to fit between the scribed side sheathing and lap up onto the end of the car at full width.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-100820201325-454351592.jpeg)

Below is what the part under the floor looks like.  A small ship will be used to keep the coupler level when installed.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-100820201325-45436812.jpeg)

Here the fly ends can be seen.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-100820201325-454371225.jpeg)

And now the completed end.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-100820201325-454382392.jpeg)

More later
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: PRR Modeler on August 10, 2020, 08:44:16 PM
Top notch Bob.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 11, 2020, 03:05:05 AM
We have now gotten to my favorite trick shot............ the roof walk.  This is the step that turns people off about doing box cars or refers.  How to make the roof walk look right and good.

Here we go.

First is a shot of a ready roof.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025047-45449774.jpeg)

Now another decking procedure. This time we will take off the peak and flatten it a bit.  When this gets done the sanded away scribes are completely invisible.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025047-45451369.jpeg)

Here is a shot of the missing scribes.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025048-454521036.jpeg)

This part is hard to see.  There are pencil marks every scale two feet along the sanded off ridge line. I start six scale inches in from each end and plot to near center.   If it does not come out even I put the last 2x4 about half way between the last closest ones and NOT on center of the car.  The symmetry of centering it draws too much attention.  Off center will go unseen.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025048-454532365.jpeg)

Now cut a bunch of 2x4 strip wood over the width of the finial roof walk.  I usually cut these to about three scale feet.  I handle them with the sharp tip of a #11 blade and dip each in a puddle of yellow glue.  Once I am all the way across the roof I go back and scoop up any pushed out glue with a sharp straight screw driver. 

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025048-454542029.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 11, 2020, 01:09:28 PM
So I got kicked out late last night due to a phone line hiccup and I wasn't going to wait for everything to restart.

So I left off with the gluing of the 2x4s.   While the glue is still doughy, press them down on a flat surface to get them all flat and even.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025248-45455818.jpeg)

Then take a 2x6 strip and glue it in the center, measuring equally from each side to get this absolutely in the middle.   If the seam in  your roof scribing drifted a bit in putting that down, this will hide it.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025248-454561727.jpeg)


Then take a straight edge and make sure it is absolutely straight.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025248-45457581.jpeg)

Then proceed to put another 2x6, one on each side of the center strip.   Use a #11 blade to set your spacing.  Just touch it down on the 2x4s and push the 2x6s up against it.  It will give you a very even spacing.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025249-454581688.jpeg)

Once the glue kicks off go back and trim off the 2x4s.  Don't even try and get them even before you put down the walk boards, you'll never build another box car.  It will make you crazy.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025249-45459181.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 11, 2020, 01:16:39 PM
So here is the finished roof walk.   You can dust off the 2x4 ends with a finger nail sanding board if you insist but a super sharp blade should be adequate.

Then take a thin flat scrap of sheet brass and dust out the spaces under the boards.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025448-454611612.jpeg)

Here is what you have looking under the walk boards.  Super sanitary and easier than it looks.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025448-454621521.jpeg)

And one last little piece of coolness (is that a word?), you can see the 2x4s between the walk boards.  You can't do that with scribed sheet panels three boards wide.

The finished width is right at 20 scale inches.  The proportion to the roof looks really good.  And magically.... you cannot see the sanded off scribed boards on the roof sheathing where you took off the peak.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-110820025448-45463130.jpeg)
I'm off the grid for about a week.  We'll get on to other detail stuff when I get back.

see ya
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: swisstrain on August 12, 2020, 01:37:58 PM
Thanks for this great thread, Bob.

I enjoy building some of the old Ambroid and La Belle kits, and while not scratchbuilding, a lot of the same tips and tricks will be useful.  In particular the one for the roof walk is very nice and saves a lot of tedious work ...

Looking forward to the next installation.

Urs
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 22, 2020, 03:11:09 PM
So I'm back.  Took a week in Portland Oregon with the grand kids and got my salt air hit for another while.


I'm now going after something that is almost never modeled. Roof walk end supports.  Most cars after 1880 had roof ends that projected beyond the end wall and the walk boards extended a bit beyond that. Safety was a growing issue and brakemen were up on the tops of the cars and had to jump from car to car.  An attempt was made to make that jump a bit shorter by extending the walk boards. OSHA would have been apoplectic with some of the stuff that went on at that time of early railroading.


To tie the walk boards together and take some of the unevenness out of the board ends a 2x4 or 3x4 board was placed under that walk boards and secured with carriage bolts.  These were bolts that had a round head with a square area below the head that would crush into the wood to prevent the bolt from turning while the nut was tightened.  In the end there was not much protruding and in HO would hardly look like some change in the wood surface of the walk boards.  Not everything has or needs an NBW.



To start then, place a pencil line horizontally across the end boards where the support rods will cross into the wood.I plotted this line with a straight edge off of the fascia boards near the sides.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145316-45595467.jpeg)

I then drill hole into the end board centered under one side of the roof walk.  This is only to get the drill to hook up when the final hole is drilled in from the top on a diagonal.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145316-455961734.jpeg)

I then stop the drill from creeping by holding the drill down with my thumb nail.  You can feel the drill grab into the earlier hole and it will not follow that but continue in on the diagonal.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145316-45597544.jpeg)


Here is the wire pressed into the end on a diagonal.  I used .013" brass wire and it can be pushed in farther to hold tight with a pliers.  No need for any glue.



(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145316-45598453.jpeg)

More later
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: PRR Modeler on August 22, 2020, 03:29:59 PM
Looks awesome and a great technique.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 22, 2020, 04:44:26 PM
So here is a drawing from an 1888 Lehigh Valley 25 ton box car.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820164245.jpeg)


Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 22, 2020, 04:45:05 PM
Curt...

Thanx for looking in.

Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 22, 2020, 04:52:45 PM
To continue.
This part is so simple it is one of those "I knew that but I never thought of it".

To cut off the wire without leaving a raised part, load down on the cutter and the roof walk will bend down a small amount. When cut it will pop back up and leave the wire a bit lower.  Too simple ! ! ! !

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145508-4559940.jpeg)

So here is one of them done.  The fuzzyness around the wires will be cleaned up later.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145508-45600977.jpeg)

Here is the batch of cars from the top and another from the bottom.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145508-45601668.jpeg)
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145508-45602656.jpeg)

And here is the batch ready for brake rigging.  You will notice that with a flat floor I had to raise the center beams by a 6x6 so as to be able to run the piping and rods for the brakes.

The bolsters on mounted and ready for under floor and B end details.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-220820145508-45603879.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: Jerry on August 23, 2020, 09:03:34 AM
Bob beautiful work.  And a great tutorial.


Jerry
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 25, 2020, 09:48:02 PM
Now for brake rigging.

This will vary depending on the era you model and the type of brake system that might have been used.  Shown below are shots of a K brake system used in the l890's and is available as a set from Tichy for about $3.50 a sprue.

I'm using .018" brass wire.  Holes are pre-drilled a thousandth or two less than the wire.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250820213356-4567689.jpeg)

You can see here that I have the cars clamped together with a spacer block so as to not crush the roof overhangs.  This allows me to not have to chase the cars around the bench and move from to the next to do each step six times.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250820213356-456771042.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250820213356-456781339.jpeg)


Next is a photo that shows a couple of tricks.   First, to avoid drilling holes in the plastic bolsters (also from Tichy) I press the wire where I want it to go through and heat the wire.  Once though, the wire can be moved around along the wire.  The plastic does not try and stick to the wire.  The through air pipes are done like this and the pull rods to the trucks are also stabbed into the bolster so as to not get tangled up in the truck.  Once the trucks are on this goes unseen.

Also here is a small Kemtron wire spike holding down the wires that cross the end sills.  A small dab of CA glue will be put on the end to look like the air hose couplings.   There is a wire that ends in the sill and is also held down with a wire spike.  This is where the brake wheel comes down and will have a small plastic casting hiding the end with the wind up spool for the pull chain.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-250820213356-45679929.jpeg)

Next I will do a thing on bending wire for grab irons.

see ya
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: postalkarl on August 26, 2020, 01:56:37 AM
Hey Bob:

Beautiful job so far. Looking forward to see them finished.

Karl
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 28, 2020, 05:05:30 PM
Let's go off on another side trip here.

It's about making up grab irons.  For these six cars I will need something north of 100 grabs. 


I'm going to show you how to make  them up so that they are consistently the same.  I will make up one with brass wire and then go to a batch that I got from Tichy.  They are the best deal.  I cannot buy the wire for what they are selling them for.


The wire is .014" brass and the ones from Tichy are phosphorus bronze.  Either way they come out the same and take paint the same.  When  you make a bend, (break) don't hammer it too much as it makes the metal very brittle at the sharpest point of the bend.
Below is a shot of the Tichy grabs.  One is how they come with a single bend and the other shows additional steps to make them apply to the car very consistently.  Note that the single bend from the factory is not at 90 degrees so this will need to be set up in a vise and fixed.

Tichy produces a no bend iron also but by the time we are done here you will be able to work with either.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820164913-45696408.jpeg)

Knocking it down to 90 degrees.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820164913-456982138.jpeg)

Then the grab will need to be re-clamped for the next step.

This shows the wire being set located in the vise to .046" (which scales out to about 3 1/2")  This will then be how high the wire will appear on the side of the car where it would be bolted to the sheathing.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820164913-45694555.jpeg)

This is another way to do the same thing.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820164913-456972475.jpeg)

More later 
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 28, 2020, 05:11:51 PM
Now to make the break.

The grab has previously located in the vise... Place a steel ruler under the grab wire and start folding up toward you.  The wire will lay down and the previous break will not change.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820165034-457082377.jpeg)

Finishing location of the ruler for the break.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820165034-45705551.jpeg)

I then tap lightly on the ruler to set the second break down.  This also flattens the wire a bit to look more like the forged prototypes.  Pretty hard to see here.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820165034-457062072.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820165034-457071064.jpeg)

More in a while
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 28, 2020, 05:23:53 PM
So how do you start out to make a grab iron if you don't have some pre made ones ? ? ?

EASY ! ! !

First you have to find a pliers that will assist you.    Try and find a pliers that has ONLY straight across grippies (Yep, I just made that a word).  This is an ancient Sears (Japan) needle nose pliers.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820171606-457092072.jpeg)

Then with a scale ruler choose the grippie that gives you the scale width that you want.  In that I am making more than 100 of these I'll make a mark in the pliers that will allow me to easily set the width each time.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820171606-457172003.jpeg)

Then I pinch the wire and fold it with my fingers.  I don't tap this one square as most prototypes were forged and this was later bent into the iron.  Also it makes the finished grab weak and brittle at this point and will be difficult to insert without breaking.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820171606-457181633.jpeg)



This scales out at about 18 inches.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820171606-457191976.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on August 28, 2020, 05:31:59 PM
So now you have the outer part of the grab done.   How to make the first break?

Shown earlier.

I used here a steel ruler that gives me 3 1/2 scale inches.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820164913-456972475.jpeg)


I do tap this one down to get a sharp angle here.  Again the prototype were forged flat here and drilled for bolting to the car.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820164913-456982138.jpeg)

This then is ready to be spaced up and made ready for the second break.   Read earlier for those steps.  This area is only about getting started from bare straight wire.  Earlier showed starting with a factory Tichy grab.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280820164913-4569987.jpeg)

Let me know how this works for you.

see yaBob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 08, 2020, 02:41:46 AM
Back after a short time away from the bench...
Last we talked about bending wire for grab irons.  But let's consider this.... I'm making up six box cars and that comes out to about 120 grabs.  With that goes 120 holes.  Yikes ! ! !

I went a long time where I made up one wood kit at a time and kept telling myself that I needed a jig for lining up the drill holes, "but it is just this one car, maybe later".  After about ten years of telling myself that I actually did make up a jig........ shown below.   I set out the spacing for 18 scale inches for the width of the grabs and 15 scale inches between the grabs.  I also designed it to lay in a corner so that I could do the end grabs and come out at the same locations and spacing.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161020-45810839.jpeg)

You can see the  scribed lines I made to lay it out.  It was all done flat and later bent 90 degrees.  I drilled holes in it also while flat.  I use Tichy wires now which are about .008" smaller that what I was using at the time I made the jig so things move around a bit. Also the drill wants to run into the scribe lines.  Those few can be shoved around with a small screwdriver to end up with straight vertical lines.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161020-458262013.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161020-458272273.jpeg)

It will take some tweaking but they will come out level and even before the paint goes on.
(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161020-45828999.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161020-45829929.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: PRR Modeler on September 08, 2020, 09:11:43 AM
Very ingenious.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: Oldguy on September 08, 2020, 09:58:15 AM
Wow.  Nice work. 
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: postalkarl on September 08, 2020, 01:51:32 PM
Hey B:

They look just great so far. Can't wait to see more photos.

Karl
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 09, 2020, 03:09:05 PM
Lets talk some more about bending and fitting wire.

Things start to get complicated when you need to make more than one of something.  Wire grabs tend to "grow" when bending around a pliers.  If you place the edge of a pliers where you want the grab to fit it will come out longer (wider) than you planed.   


Depending on the material and hardness of the wire you are using it will "throw" beyond the edge of the pliers.  This must be considered when bending.  There is a way to minimize this.  That is to work from the center of the wire object being created.  To say this a bit differently, the pliers must be on the area that is not yet bent; the pliers points at where you came from.

So let's get started.   Cut a piece of wire longer than you are going to need for the first one.  If  you are making more than one you can get a better idea of how much each wire is going to need and you can be more economical about the subsequent cuts

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161359-458301912.jpeg)

These are going to be the roof grabs at the tops of the various ladders and access to the brake wheel.

Here then is the first bend, about in the middle of the wire.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161400-458311905.jpeg)


Now for the second bend.  This will demonstrate what the paragraph above was talking about.  Put the pliers on the part that has not been bent yet.  That is...... work away from the center.  This photo shows working away from the first.  Place the wire on a ruler and put the pliers up against the end of the ruler.  Can't miss ! ! !

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161400-458321600.jpeg)

Then go to the other side and make the bend there.  In this case we have a three scale foot arm of the wire and this one will be two scale feet.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161400-458332188.jpeg)

Here is a completed grab iron.    For this batch build I will need twelve of them.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161400-458342328.jpeg)


Here is one installed on the roof of a car.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-070920161440-458351948.jpeg)

More later on the corner support.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 09, 2020, 03:40:16 PM
Now to do the corner support.  This little detail will go unnoticed by most observers but a good evaluator will hawk this out in a minute.  This the sort of stuff that will get a model to earn a merit award.

Drill a hole on the inside of the grab iron.Go in at least a quarter inch.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-090920152850-458491369.jpeg)

Push a piece of brass wire into the hole but not quite to the bottom.  Then cut it off flush to the top of the existing grab iron.   Then push wire in a bit so that it is under the corner of the iron.  Take a small pliers and bend the wire out so that it is under the corner of the grab.

Then put some liquid solder flux on both parts and tack solder it.   The flux will make it flash so fast that the wire will not burn the wood roof structure.  Do not depend on the rosin core of the solder to do this as it requires so much more heat.  In most cases the fine wire solder will flow at around 200 degrees.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-090920152850-458501699.jpeg)

Another angle.  These finish off really easily but it is a really cool feature.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-090920152850-458511765.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: ReadingBob on September 09, 2020, 03:54:07 PM
Very cool.   8)
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: PRR Modeler on September 09, 2020, 04:45:07 PM
Excellent modeling and how to.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: ACL1504 on September 10, 2020, 11:44:41 AM
Bob,

Great stuff and lots of "How To" tricks.

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: Jerry on September 10, 2020, 09:57:51 PM
Beautiful work Bob!!


Jerry
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 14, 2020, 06:32:45 PM
Alright now.........

We are getting close here..........  On to the doors.

In the era I am modeling there were not too many door options.  There were however, a number of ways of making them slide and anchor.   The tops were all about the same.  A pair of roller wheels hanging from a track rod and hidden by a board that came down from the fascia board.  So here is a photo of what the tops of all six of these cars will have.

I used some 1/16" angle stock from Northeastern Wood Products.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140920150701-45937293.jpeg)

Now on to the bottom rail.  There were basically three types or methods of conducting the lower rail. Shown here is a closed system so I simply used a second piece of angle stock and it's done and easy.  The pencil marks all over the place are for marking centers, both of door and the car.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140920150701-45944151.jpeg)

The second type was nothing more than cleats that acted as stops and guides. Shown here at the top of the photo.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140920150701-459452500.jpeg)

Now for the tough one.  There was a method where the bottom was a long strip of plate steel that was anchored to the lower car side with a bunch of four or five inch stand-off bolts or castings.  So I decided that I could do this.   Here is a shot of the stand-offs.  On two foot centers and  cover the entire travel of the door.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140920150701-459461818.jpeg)


Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 14, 2020, 06:42:12 PM
To make the lower rails, I cut .050" sheet brass into narrow strips with an x-acto blade.  it's tough on the blade but it really works well.  A scissors just bends everything.
Shown below is are two strips.  One is shown from what will be the outside and includes bolt heads which are nothing more than small impressions from the back side.  Any small point will do and pushing is adequate. No need for a hammer.
The other strip is the back side and you can see that it is flooded with solder.  This is what makes this simple.  When ready to be soldered, touch some liquid flux on each stand-off.  The place the strip where you want it on the stand-offs and apply a bit of heat.  This goes so fast that you won't even get your fingers hot.  Use a small screwdriver to hold things in place until cool.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140920150702-459471831.jpeg)

These are amazingly durable.  I cut the ends off after soldering with a small nipper.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140920182130.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140920182217-45948643.jpeg)

And a third shot showing the distance off of the wall.

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-140920182217-459501717.jpeg)

These are the little things that will get a model to a merit award. None of them are tough.  Just take the time and experiment with it.

Next will be final details of the end of car brake parts.
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: deemery on September 14, 2020, 07:33:43 PM
That last approach, with the steel/iron rail, was a key part of the Wagner plug door, that was widely used around the turn of the century.  Craig Bisgeier did one for his PRR XC/XD kit.  The door itself was an early plug door, with a refrigerator door style latch.  Westerfield has a kit for a PRR XG, same kind of door.  https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=99_449&products_id=656

dave

Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 14, 2020, 09:32:49 PM
Dave.....
I had not heard a particular name assigned to those.  John White does not identify them as I can recall in his giant book of freight cars.

Thanx
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: Oldguy on September 15, 2020, 09:53:55 AM
Quote from: deemery on September 14, 2020, 07:33:43 PM
That last approach, with the steel/iron rail, was a key part of the Wagner plug door, that was widely used around the turn of the century.  Craig Bisgeier did one for his PRR XC/XD kit.  The door itself was an early plug door, with a refrigerator door style latch.  Westerfield has a kit for a PRR XG, same kind of door.  https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=99_449&products_id=656 (https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=99_449&products_id=656)

dave
Interesting how those doors slide open to the left. 
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 15, 2020, 04:22:03 PM
We're getting close now.

Here is a photo of the underside of the B end were the brake rod comes down to the stirrup.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150920161121-459921831.jpeg)


The brake rod goes through the tension stirrup and is secured with a small wire Kemtron spike.  Any sort of brass or steel wire would work. I NEVER use piano wire as it is tough on the nippers and it throws little shards around the room when being cut and won't take solder well.  After that, piano wire is just plain terrible to work with.

What do you really think, Bob?

Here are some photos showing the B end detail.  I use brass brake wheels from anywhere I can find them as they take a beating when switching during operating sessions.  These are Precision Scale which I think is not part of PF&S Hobbies out of Pasco Washington. I gave up on plastic long ago.  I also place them a bit low above the roof for the same reason.

The grey plastic castings are Tichy.

It is amazing how easily the grab irons get pushed around while working on these cars.  Much of what I have done here is to choose an construction order that is lest damaging as you go along.  Some things simply must come before others, like the truss rods strings before you close up the sides.   


Each grab iron will be examined and adjusted before going to the paint shop.


(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150920161121-45988423.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150920161121-459891182.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150920161121-45990441.jpeg)

(http://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-150920161121-459911671.jpeg)


Now on to the paint shop.




Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: deemery on September 16, 2020, 08:58:25 AM
Bob, I just remembered I have some photos of a Wagner door boxcar hardware on-line:  http://davebert.photos/Strasburg-Mar14/index2.html  (Pennsylvania RR Museum, Strasburg.)


dave
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: tct855 on September 16, 2020, 09:41:43 AM
Bob,
       Excellent pictorial sir!  Lots of great tips for all to follow.  What nice clean simple to follow step by step instructions.  Very interesting fleet build.  I'm glued here till the end.  Thanx Thom...
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 16, 2020, 01:20:46 PM
Dave..... Thom

Thank you sirs, for looking in.  Dave, those are great photos of the metal stand off tracking.   What is shown above is the first time I have tried to model that system.   All of the cars will need some dusting up before being painted.

It's amazing what a beating they take just getting them build.   The cars I did for my MMR cars certificate were mostly done in HOn3 so these are giant by comparison.

Thanx again.
Bob
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: deemery on September 16, 2020, 01:50:36 PM
If you notice on the prototype (and on Craig's model), the trackway has a bend in it.  If you think about how the door would work, that makes sense.  That bend helps push the one side of the door into the wall, "filling the plug".


dave
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: Jerry on September 16, 2020, 05:05:47 PM
Beautiful work Bob.


Jerry
Title: Re: Wood box cars Scratch building and trick shots
Post by: bparrish on September 16, 2020, 05:52:41 PM
Dave,,,,

I can do that,,,,, just press the last pins in father.   It does make sense.

Last thing before paing.

Thanx
Bob