The Modeler's Forum

INTRODUCTION & BACKGROUND

Now that I am most of the way though building my Rugg diorama, I have started to think about placing it on the layout. I actually cut the base for the diorama long ago and also built the frame in which the dio would sit. The plan is to site it on the north end of the town of Monee.

When I built the benchwork long ago (now we're talking close to 25 years -- shudder), the first thing I did was to paint the concrete basement walls a sky(-ish) color that was to serve as the backdrop. Of course, this was not my best idea ever but I was very much in the gotta get it done mood back then and that was a quick fix. Further, I did a little scenery for the town of Monee that consisted mostly of the Woodland Scenics ground foam scattered about and a couple of quickly done roads and DPM plastic buildings. Now, some 25 years later, I am much more focused on high quality models and scenes rather than just a means of running trains around the basement and perhaps some interesting operations.

So, to illustrate, here is my starting point - Monee today:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918221901-335592080.jpeg)

Monee is essentially that entire wall you're facing. This is the view as you come down the steps to the basement.

You can see the concrete wall that has been sky-i-fied as well as the couple of DPM buildings sitting there. The "hole" in the scenery to the left is the site for Rugg. Just a little left of that is SRMW Ware Knitters - another dio that I build a long time ago. On the layout, you're always facing east - north is to the left.

No suspended ceiling (I may regret that, but I'm not planning to change that at this point - so far, after 25 years, the fallout from the floor above really hasn't been bad). All the lighting is accomplished with 4' shop lights that I have recently rewired to take 5000K direct wire LED tubes (40 fixtures - was "fun"). I intend to have a lighting valence everywhere around the layout as you see here. Right now, Monee is about the only area it exists.

More in a few minutes.

Here's a closeup of the concrete wall:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918221601-335582009.jpeg)

Unpleasant. Again, 25 years ago with the goal of getting done quickly, it seemed to make sense. Now I find it disturbing. Since I did this, I think I can say that I have not seen a single layout that phoned in the backdrop like this. So, gotta change.

At this point, my benchwork is complete so there is no way I am going to try to finish the basement to any significant level. What I decided to do instead was to use 1x2 dimensional lumber and Masonite to serve as the backdrop. The 1x2s are glued with the concrete walls with Liquid Nails Heavy Duty and the Masonite is cut into 22" by 8' strips and fastened with countersunk screws to the strips. Seams between panels and screw holes are covered with drywall tape and mud. Then, it's all painted. Here's an example of the backdrop that I put in for the next town south, Peotone:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918221905-33560398.jpeg)

I did this about a year ago before any trackage was in place. The Duffy's diorama you see will not go there -- I just wanted to make the picture a little more interesting.

As of right now, I still don't know how I will deal with the horizon, but I'll start working on that plan shortly.

More shortly.

Here are a couple of long shots of Monee as it stands today. First, from the north (looking south):

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918221908-335611637.jpeg)

That bridge is scratch built, BTW. You can also see Barongould's Tannery in the far background. That's actually the south end of the town of Manteno. Its backdrop is also in place. The tannery will not be sited there -- it's just a temporary resting place. The 2x4s underneath it are a story for another day.

Here's a shot from the south, looking north:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918222055-33563882.jpeg)

This shot also shows you the old school scenery structure - plaster strips on wire screen.

BTW, this area is known as the "Monee Cut" - so called because the Illinois Central did that engineering in the first half of the 1900s to reduce grades and make it easier to haul long coal drags. For fun, here is an old picture of the real Monee Cut. (FYI - It's a single track today.)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918221551-335351292.jpeg)

This is the "proto" part of my protolancing.

Finally, here's a direct comparison of the new vs. old backdrop scheme. Monee is on the left, Peotone is on the right:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918222053-335622014.jpeg)

More shortly....

So, my plan now is to rip out most, maybe all of the scenery in Monee and put in the backdrop. While I am at it, I will put in the backdrop on the perpendicular wall that leads to the next town north - Richton Park. Once the backdrop is in, I will go back and use foam to recreate the elevated town of Monee except that this time I hope to build a few larger dioramas that contain several kits that make up the scene. In particular, I am thinking that some combination of Dexter's Dead End and some Bar Mills individual buildings will reside on the east side of the tracks. Still need a bit more thinking about what to do with the west side.

I expect to still site Rugg in its originally intended position. Here's a close-up of the site:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918221553-335551483.jpeg)

You will notice that there's not a lot of room here between the tracks and the concrete wall. I'll need 3/4" for the 1x2 and another 3/16" for the Masonite. The room is there (I'll need to lose that rock outcropping) but I'll need to be careful.

As part of the rework, I will rework the DCC bus wiring as well. All my new wiring is a twisted pair for the 12 gauge bus (you see individual 12 gauge wiring here) for the bus with liberal usage of terminal strips and wire nuts rather than difficult to install and maintain under-the-table soldering as you see here. I am also installing numerous occupancy detectors along the way as my plan is to support some significant automation in running and CTC operation.

The team track-like spur that serves Rugg here also serves Ware Knitters. It's to the left of this pic. I'll post a couple of pics of that next.

Here's the end of that spur that passes by Rugg:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918221556-33556941.jpeg)

And one more shot:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-100918221558-33557155.jpeg)

I think we can all agree that the spider webs are a very nice touch.

Ware Knitters is also nestled in its frame here although not fastened and scenicked in. My plan is to leave it in this location. We'll see if I have any better ideas once I get further into the rehab.

BTW, you can see here that the track is hand-laid. In fact, all of the Monee trackage is hand-laid. That was my original plan when I started the layout 15 years ago. (Weird, eh? Wants to hand lay the track but just paints the concrete walls blue....go figure.) But, I'm older and wiser now -- well, older anyway. All new trackage is Microengineering flex track and a variety of turnouts.

So, that's it for the background and the intro. I have already cleared out the top shelf below Monee where all those beautiful red and yellow boxes were hiding (you can see a few of them in the close-up picture of the Rugg site and in my very first picture in this thread). The next step is to rip out the existing scenery and start gluing up the furring strips for the backdrop. Along the way, i'll start to do some landform planning for the new Monee topography. Still needs to be a cut, but have to plan the transitions and do some figuring on how the structures will fit in.

The reason I am posting this is that I am hoping to get a lot of suggestions along the way. The NNGC layout tours were very inspiring -- there's so much talent out there. I hope I can tap into some of it.

Hi Vince.  I'll be following along.
 
Try this - mock up a few of your craftsman structure kits and stand back to view them.  Then honestly assess how much visual noise you get from the drywall above your 22" backdrop - especially those lumps.  Remember - every time you view your work for the next ??? years, this is what you will see.  I suggest this because now is the time to address the problem.  Once all those craftsman kits (and all your hours of blood, sweet and tears) are on the layout it will be too late.  I also think it wouldn't be too big of a deal to make a light weight 'cloud' which would attach to the top of your 2" by 1" framing on the wall, prop it at the front, and then hang it from the ceiling at the front.  It might just be worth talking it through with someone you know with some expertise in this area (if you don't possess said expertise) to get an idea of how much work would be involved.

Looking forward to your progress - whatever direction you choose to take.

Cheers, Mark.

Great modeling Vince. The Rugg building really holds up to close-up photos (that's tough!). Very nice benchwork and flowing curves. Thanks for sharing.


John

Vince,

I am really glad you decided to share this rebuild of your layout with all of us.  After reading thru Mark's post I am left with a couple questions.  What is the height of your benchwork, and what is the height to the top of your new Masonite backdrop? 

I'm excited to watch your progress.

Watching your progress is going to be great fun.  8)

As I look back on thing I have done, I find some things amazing, but others it's a "what was I thinking" moment, so I tend to be my harshest critic. I'll enjoy seeing you work thru the areas from the past that you find aren't up to your standards today. Have fun.  :)

Vince,
Thanks for a very timely (I hope) thread. I'm getting ready to embark on a construction project that has many of the same hurdles you are/were faced with.
The work you've done to date and your comments about it may keep me from major mistakes and for that I thank you profusely. And, you have an open invite when you come back to the Philadelphia area to stop and see if I learned anything,
Chip Stevens

Vince,
Great meeting you last week at the NNGC. Will follow along on your layout and kit builds. Thanks for starting this thread.
The SRMW Ware building is one that is not on the shelf here. Looks good on your basement empire. Nice job !
Tommy

Hey Vince:

All very well done so far. I'm following along.

Karl

Pretty cool..... sir

Thanx
Bob

My gosh -- lots of responses -- thanks guys. I'll try to respond to all:

Bob and Karl, thanks for the support. I think the Ware Knitters kit turned out OK but I know the rest is a major fixer-upper. I hope you will continue to look in from time to time and offer constructive criticism. This is going to be a big effort. At the end of it, I would like to have at least one major town scene that is worth bringing people down into the basement for. I will definitely be looking for input as people see opportunities.

Tom, it was good to meet you, too. Just a formality, tho, right? I felt we already knew each other from all the emails and phone calls beforehand.

Chip, if you're looking for mistakes to avoid, I'm your guy. Chances are pretty good that I have hit or will hit them all, at least once. And, count on my taking you up on your offer to visit you in Philly. As I now have some new responsibilities to help take care of a couple of aunts that live there, I will need to visit from time to time.....maybe even again before the end of the year.

Greg, I have had the same thoughts...on the one hand, I can go back and see things that I did like scratch building a #10 crossover that still runs very reliably and say "wow." Then, on the same day, I look at decisions I made such as buying cheap, untempered hardboard for the fascia (not Masonite) that has permanently buckled where it absorbed water from scenery application and general humidity and again say "wow" (bad, this time). Another good example is the tannery I mentioned on the 2x4s. The reason those 2x4s are there is because I made the original diorama base out of 1/2" roof sheathing, not cabinet grade plywood. Looked great after I built it (it was my first craftsman kit....I have a new definition of great now that I have seen so many top-notch models from the people here). But, a couple of years later, the plywood had cupped severely. Looked like a rocking horse with about 1/2" or more rise on either side. I took several weeks slowly tightening clamps every few days to the two 2x4s with L-brackets attached until the plywood was back to level. Then bolted the dio to the new supports. It's straight now but I am sure I will have a heck of a time finding a way to install that in the layout somewhere.

Jerry, the track height coming out of the south end of Monee (the curve that turns left into Peotone) is 49.5". The top of the Masonite hardboard backdrop is about 72" and it is 22" high (so the bottom is at 50"). Those weren't carefully calculated numbers. Rather, they were chosen to keep the backdrop between the concrete "knobs" that come out of the wall where the anchors were to hold the forms when they poured the foundation. By staying between them, I can get away with using 1x2 furring strips placed flat against the wall. That's enough space to clear the irregularities in the wall. If I wanted something taller, I would need to use 2x2s to clear the knobs and then lose more layout space. Since my shelves are already relatively narrow (2' in most areas) I wanted to conserve all the space I could. 22 inches also allows me to get two panels from a 4x8 sheet of Masonite with another few inches to use for fascia or maybe horizon. Handy. Now, it just so happens that the space between the knobs is just above my benchwork so it makes it very convenient to have a low horizon which is what I will need for my midwestern setting. Check out the picture above where I have the Duffy's diorama in the middle. You can see the lower knobs are right at layout height. That wasn't planned. It just worked out that way. If you can't be good, be lucky.

John, thanks for the compliments. I also love the flow through Monee. The use of splines for the roadbed there was one of the good things that I did. Getting very subtle curves like that would be a lot harder (for me, at least) using plywood roadbed. And thanks again for finding the stair stringers at the show for me. I have already started to install them on Rugg. Hope to update that thread by the end of this week.

Mark, no question about it...I will have a nice backdrop everywhere. As you said, the distraction of a painted concrete wall behind an array of beautiful craftsman kits is just unacceptable. My wife thought I was nuts when she saw me first do the new backdrop around Peotone and Manteno. Once it was finished she said "I get it." I have to admit I'm a little concerned that a backdrop that is only 22" high may not be high enough. But, fortunately (?) I'm a short guy -- between 5'8" and 5'9" depending on how much I've shrunk since college  ;D so  what I have will at least be above eye level. Should be plenty good for photos, too. I love the idea of mockups as you mentioned. I've never done that before and will come back to the group for suggestions when I get to that point. No idea what materials to use, how to find the right balance between speed and fidelity, etc. But, it sounds like a worthwhile investment in time.

Thanks again to all for the notes. I'll try to post a quick pic and a note as I work through things.

Vince,

Wonderful start on the build thread. I'll be watching and waiting for more photos.

Beautiful layout and I'm glad you are going to cover the walls. The concrete seems are a slight distraction but the Masonite is perfect for the back drop and sky.

Very well done sir, very well done indeed.

Tom ;D

Thanks, Tom. I know I will appreciate it when it's finished. It could be worse -- with reasonably narrow shelves and relatively rudimentary scenery in place now, I am hoping the pain will be minimal.

Pulled all of the scenery up at Monee this weekend. Here's the result:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-160918223835.jpeg)

A little bit sad to break it down but not too bad. I'm excited about that which is to come.

On the plus side, I remembered to wear work gloves for the demolition so all the pain was just emotional, not physical. That screen wire can getcha.

You can see where the town was with the glue line on the wall. Also, I decided to rip out the fascia as well. As I think I mentioned earlier, I used non-tempered hardboard for that before. It led to some permanent buckling as it was exposed to water during scenery construction and also basic humidity changes. I'll use Masonite or something else going forward for a little more stability (as I am doing with the backdrops).

Next step is to glue up some wood 1x2 supports to the concrete wall using Heavy Duty Liquid Nails. I'll post some pics when I have some up there.

Wow...busy weekend!

Hey Vince:

I agree with Dave. Will be following along.

Karl

Looking in, I note the right angle between Monee and Peotone, and the track rather close to it.  I don't know how that stands out to you, but it will complicate photos.  You don't have a lot of room to wrap that corner, so I'm not sure how effective anything that would fit would be.  Maybe a 'Bellina Drop' using a tunnel (if prototypical) or an overpass with a mirror sitting atop it?

Quote from: jbvb on September 23, 2018, 04:33:15 PM
Looking in, I note the right angle between Monee and Peotone, and the track rather close to it.  I don't know how that stands out to you, but it will complicate photos.  You don't have a lot of room to wrap that corner, so I'm not sure how effective anything that would fit would be.  Maybe a 'Bellina Drop' using a tunnel (if prototypical) or an overpass with a mirror sitting atop it?

Neat - I learned something new. I had never heard of Bellina Drop before you mentioned it but found quite a few references online.

Thanks, James. Yes, you're right. That 90-degree corner on that wall won't look good if caught in a picture. There's one other convex corner in the basement where that will happen. Of course, there are many concave 90-degree corners as well. I thought long and hard a year ago whether I wanted to do something about that....cove the concave corners, for example. What I ultimately decided was that I wasn't going to try to do anything to fancy with the backdrop. In the case of this Monee/Peotone corner, I am actually planning to add a little benchwork to extend the switching area with a few small peninsulas, making Peotone unprototypically industry-heavy. I will likely also have some body of water on at least one of the peninsulas to allow me to more easily put in a couple of the kits I have that require water. (This will almost surely keep all my prototype modeler friends from ever speaking to me again.) Anyway, the point is that the Bellina Backdrop probably isn't practical in that space (assuming I actually understand what the Bellina drop is).

I will give some thought to disguising the corner. I hadn't considered a tunnel but I do expect there will be some opportunity to insert an overpass and a mirror or two as you suggested.

It's interesting - I find I am in a constant battle with myself now trying to find the right balance for things. Backdrops are just one of many examples of where there is a continuum on which I'm trying to find the right point. At one end, you see that early on I chose to just paint the concrete walls sky blue (and not a very good paint job at that). That was clearly wrong given my scenery interests. On the other end, I considered coved corner backdrops, specialty lighting with highlighting and perhaps night lighting. If I choose something too simple, I end up unhappy with the result. If I choose something too complicated, I end up not getting enough done. We've all read about "good enough" in the press (originally coined by Tony Koester?). I assume that Good Enough point is different for each of us. The magic is finding it.

Very true, Vince.

I think its also true with the kits/ scratch-builds we do.  There is always more that can be done to a model - the trick is finding the balance between what makes us satisfied, what our bigger modelling goals are, and how much time we have available.  For me the biggest way of achieving this is to not get too side tracked!

Regards the use of mirrors - there was a great John Allen article many years ago in model railroader magazine called (I think) 'the art of using mirrors'.  I'm sure you would find it very interesting and potentially very handy.  Dec. '81 issue of MRR.

Cheers, Mark.

Very nice, Vince.....my primary interest is buildings and I like what I see...well done...anxiously awaiting more updates...anywhere near ready to begin the Foundry project from SWSM?

Terry

I'm back. Sorry for the long silence. Work has been a bit busy but the main problem is that I had an issue with my backdrop. Interestingly, the day I was going to start gluing up some more 1x2 strips to put in a backdrop for Monee I happened to glance over at Manteno and noticed a funny shadow. Here's why:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-051018091215-34066241.jpeg&hash=c28523fa3a2a38aacc4911cddeb48bc8ac0c4eaa)

Yep - my affixed-by-Liquid-Nails-only 1x2s pulled off the wall at Manteno. This is about a year and a half after I put this up. I was depressed and furious all at once. Then, I realized how fortunate I was:

• If you look a few pictures up, you can see that I was temporarily storing Barongould's Tannery here. It could have been the case that after pulling away from the wall, the backdrop could have fallen forward and destroyed my FSM building. But, it didn't
• This happened before I started doing this in the rest of my basement so at least there's only a limited amount of rework - or at least less than there could have been

So, what to do? I considered other options.....using Tapcon anchors, using longer studs that could rest on my benchwork (probably using a horizontal piece of some sort against the wall) and/or reaching up to the ceiling, even skim coating and not using hardboard at all.

I spoke to several contractors. the skim coating sounded most interesting to me as that would consume the least amount of space (using 1x2s and 3/16" Masonite brings my walls in about an inch) but I couldn't find a single contractor that thought that would be a good idea. In fact, everyone I spoke with said pretty much the same thing: Use Tapcon anchors AND Liquid Nails and it ain't coming down.

So, I'm getting some help. First order of business was to anchor the fallen backdrop. Here it is back in place:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-051018091218-344361459.jpeg&hash=b461738475a9c8ca9b0954e467284a8898a11fdc)

Will need to go back and mud and repaint, but, at least it was salvageable. This is the town of Manteno. It is on the right side of this roughly 20' x 11' alcove. On the left side is Peotone as you saw in earlier pictures. That has not yet fallen but clearly will some day. So, that will all be anchored in as well. It shouldn't be that bad to bring out the rollers again to repaint. The biggest bummer is those clouds - using rattle can paint and cloud stencils is smelly. I use a respirator and take it a little at a time so that I don't fill the house up with Rustoleum fumes.

I know this is a thread about Monee, but as long as the whole backdrop thing came up (came down, actually....) I thought I would post a few pics of the backdrop progress as it is happening. It is also a good excuse for me to take pictures and memorialize the process. I guess it will also give you a tour of my basement. Here's the north end of Indian Oaks - next town south of Manteno:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-051018091221-34437296.jpeg&hash=ea865390ded83fbd3b6229667aa8c2b270e6c1d1)

Immediately to the left is the circuit breaker box that you saw on the right above. As you can see - glued and screwed. Here's a longer shot of Manteno:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-051018091224-344382051.jpeg&hash=cddbcbe442904f0ba7b5e21519eb0cdcf238f4f7)

You'll notice that the double track main is close to the aisle here. You can also see a left-hand turnout on the east-most track. That will lead to a substantial switching district here. The plan is to plunk down a few zillion of my kits here. This is the "lancing" part of my protolancing.

Working with a contractor is nice. Aside from the fact that he actually knows what he is doing, it gives me an excuse to be in the basement (helping hands now and again) so I get other stuff done - right now, I'm trying to get caught up on the big wiring job that remains for much of the railroad. You can see my DCC 12 gauge twisted pair bus just below the nearest L-girder.

Vince...good timing on catching the backdrop letting go....oh my, hope the 4" 'drain' line above never springs a leak ;-))

Terry

Quote from: Vietnam Seabee on October 05, 2018, 10:39:31 AM
Vince...good timing on catching the backdrop letting go....oh my, hope the 4" 'drain' line above never springs a leak ;-))

Terry

Thanks for the jinx, Terry  ;D

Meanwhile - thanks for your comments earlier. And, regarding your question about Morton's Foundry, I think I am going to push it down further in the queue for a few reasons, now. First and foremost, now that I see all the detail that the SWSM have from all angles, I want to put that kit (and O'Neill's) in a position where all of the sides can be seen. Monee doesn't offer that opportunity. I think the small peninsulas that I have planned for Peotone will. The next several kits I will build will be targeted at populating the town of Monee.

Second, I wanted to build the foundry early because of its masonry features - I wanted to see what I could learn so that I could apply it to Rugg. But, the timing didn't work out and I ended up doing the brick and stone work on Rugg, anyway.

Last, I would like to build some more model building experience in general so that when I do build them, I can do the best job possible (for me, that is).

Quote from: mark dalrymple on September 24, 2018, 01:41:50 AM
Very true, Vince.

I think its also true with the kits/ scratch-builds we do.  There is always more that can be done to a model - the trick is finding the balance between what makes us satisfied, what our bigger modelling goals are, and how much time we have available.  For me the biggest way of achieving this is to not get too side tracked!

Regards the use of mirrors - there was a great John Allen article many years ago in model railroader magazine called (I think) 'the art of using mirrors'.  I'm sure you would find it very interesting and potentially very handy.  Dec. '81 issue of MRR.

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks for the reference, Mark. I checked my stack of MRs (that I am actually trying to convince myself to get rid of to make space) and I don't go back to 1981. I'll try a call to Kalmbach sometime to see if they have a reprint for sale (they must since they digitized their whole library). Or maybe I can just find a pack rat friend.

Vince,

I like the new look of the back drop. Your 1X2" furring strips are the way to go in your situation and will support the backdrop material.

I'm very envious of your space but when I work in my own 20X50' space I think I'll never get the layout finished.

Great work my friend, wonderful layout.




Tom ;D

Hi Vince,

You also may want to try something I did.  I used underlayment paper (for flooring) on my masonite.  It's an idea I read about in a Bob Hayden/Dave Frary book.  It comes in 2 foot wide rolls and I applied mine like wallpaper (using wallpaper glue).  It's feels like thick construction paper.  You solve a couple of things at one time.  You don't have to bother with drywall mud at the seams and the backdrop will never crack.  I've had mine up for almost 18 years without any issues.  It takes paint great too.  I think I bought mine at Home Depot, but I would guess you could get it at just about any wall/floor covering store.

I think your layout looks great.  I see what you mean about having a lot of real estate to cover.  I still think the 1 square foot at a time applies.  Besides, does it really matter how long it takes?  Just have a good time building it!

Seth P.

OK, the contractor finished. I decided to go with the more conventional route of mudding the joints and painting the Masonite. The furring strips are all up, the Masonite stapled on (contractors have cool toys), joints and staples are mudded and a first primer coat is on. You already saw a few pics of some 1x2 furring strips on the walls. I won't bore you with more of that. Instead, I will bore you with a brief overview of the track plan for some context:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-161018224818-345991904.jpeg&hash=6d3ea17ab43e399acd4e9500467246c66e1fec0c)

Starting with the peninsula, you can see Chicago and Kankakee staging. This staging will actually be hidden - 14" or so below an upper level that will represent the Amtrak service facility and finally a passenger service terminal. Union/Central station-esque (protolancing, after all). But, there's no construction on that, yet. More on that story in another year or two.

Chicago staging represents all points north and west for trains heading north. Proceeding left out of staging you come upon Hazel Crest and Markham Yard - the major classification point on the railroad. Continuing south, are the towns of Richton Park, Monee, Peotone, Manteno, Indian Oaks (which is really Bourbonnais, Illinois), and finally back into staging that represents Kankakee and all points south. I also included a connecting loop between Kankakee staging and Chicago staging to facilitate continuous running and perhaps some simplified staging for eventual operations.

The mainline is mostly double track except as it goes into and out of staging. Space is tight there and I opted to favor larger radii curves. Markham track is all laid. Indian Oaks shows some significant industrial trackage, none of which is there (as you can see in the pictures). Still planning there. As I mentioned, my goal is to load that area up with a lot of kits. Need to think through that a lot more.

Similarly, the mini-peninsulas at Peotone do not yet exist. Those will again be constructed to accommodate kits and especially some topography that will support the waterfront kits and multi-level kits (AKA South River). To the north (left) of Peotone, you see the first peninsula I will build. Significant creative license here. There is a Rock River in Illinois, but not here. It's much further northwest, running through the town of, surprisingly enough, Rockford. There *is* a Rock CREEK north of Peotone, but the only activity you would find there would be along the lines of radio controlled boats, not anything that would look like commercial marine traffic. But, I wanted some waterfront scenery. This seemed like a somewhat less egregious cheat. I am also planning to build this peninsula first as it will help me complete my "Monee Build" which is the focus of this thread.

One more reality violation to point out - Manteno. You see a small yard here representing a Metra (the Chicago suburban commuter service) terminus. In reality, Metra does run down the old IC tracks but the terminus is at University Park - between Richton Park and Monee. Worse yet, it's an electric line. But, I am not interested in catenary. And, I love bilevel commuter cars so I needed a longer run for my commuter traffic so that I can enjoy seeing the trains on a longer run.

By the way, I mentioned that the mainline is all laid. The wiring is still in progress. In addition to having some interest in operations, I am interested in automation (my background and career has been software and electrical engineering). So, as I am wiring, there is some significant extra work being put into blocking and occupancy detection. Not only takes more time and effort, but also ends up burning me out (because it takes more time and effort). But, when it's finished, I hope to be able to watch ("rail fan") through freights, Amtrak runs, and commuter service even when I don't have a dozen friends in my basement (like I could come up with a dozen friends  :) ).

OK - so much for the "brief" overview. Next up, back to business with a couple of status pics.

Here are a few pics of the Masonite backdrop, pre-mud and primer. First, a shot of North Hazel Crest.

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-161018224820-34663639.jpeg&hash=03dad48b9f71320fd7c12767b8205204d6f795e0)

This is me standing just behind Chicago staging and pointing to the north end of Hazel Crest. If you take the track plan above and turn it upside down, you will be aligned with this view. The two single track lines coming from the bottom are the staging leads. On the left, you're heading upgrade and north out of Kankakee staging. The right hand track is the south run out of Chicago staging and heading upgrade to Markham Yard.

That little cubby hole you see to the left of the backdrop is right below the fireplace in the family room above. Not sure what I'm going to do with that, yet. But, I was sure that I didn't want backdrop back there.

Here's a wider shot of Markham Yard:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-161018224822-34664907.jpeg&hash=4e19e03de1970d136aa58c76a571856805934746)

The backdrop stops at the basement window that is the emergency exit. What you can't see are some very large styrene structures to the right where the benchwork angles away from the wall (to accommodate the e-exit as well as a sump pump in the corner). I will probably attach some backdrop directly to the benchwork there (or not have any at all as the buildings create a significant view block).

Richton Park:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-161018224825-34665265.jpeg&hash=3a677ea90c4cc62a6b18c6c7257237bea3c67673)

If you look to the far left of the picture in the middle, you can see one of those styrene buildings I mentioned earlier - constructed with City Classics modular components. Still needs significant work to complete. The window you see is not the emergency window I referenced before. That is another one.

Here is south Richton Park/North Monee. You've seen this before but without the backdrop. The sites for Ware Knitters and Rugg are still intact.

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-161018224827-346661154.jpeg&hash=1cb46f2d805767370495336fcf80e6f9eaa1fd30)

At the bottom right of the pic you can see the turnback loop between Chicago staging and Kankakee staging.

Man, I gotta get rid of all those old Model Railroader mags.

Here's a wider shot of Monee.

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-161018235051-346672384.jpeg&hash=8d55b705514bacb3444f9499f54ec22af4cf2fff)

I'm skipping Peotone and Manteno - I posted pics of them before. The backdrops *were* finished but now they have primed mud blobs all over the place where they were anchored to the concrete walls. In the meantime, here's Indian Oaks:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-161018235053-346681053.jpeg&hash=273c700535b315fd02c9ca8c07a6a0612e43d91d)

Again, the Tannery will not go there. Just trying to keep my few dioramas out of harm's way as the contractor wandered around the basement brandishing eight-foot wood and Masonite products.

Also note as I mentioned above that only the mainline is in place at this point - no industrial trackage, yet.

Finally, here's the south end of Indian Oaks and the path downgrade to Kankakee staging.

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-161018235056-346692085.jpeg&hash=c55e30557612d40ecf81aeeb8044ac9e99e4b7f9)

You can also see the other side of that fireplace cubby hole here.

The lighting on this shot is also good to show the staples. Those compressed air guns are fun - katork, katork, katork, katork. Done. Air pressure set just enough to recess the staples that you can then easily mud over. BTW, all the Masonite is fastened to the furring strips with Liquid Nails Heavy Duty in addition to the staples.

That's it....everything except the staging yards on the peninsula. not showing those as they are buried under lots of stuff right now (again, to clear the work area for backdrop work). I'll post something on that in the future.

As I mentioned, the backdrop is finished to the point of having a first primer coat. I will do a second primer coat and then two coats of sky blue. I won't post any pictures of that -- doesn't add much value. So, when I come back here again we should be able to get back to the business of building Monee. One extra benefit of having some contractor help - I took advantage of the fact that he has a truck and I was able to buy some 4x8 styrofoam sheets. So, should have everything I need to start terraforming Monee.

CU soon.

What a great space Vince , looking forward to years of keeping us informed  ;)

Vince,


That is quite an undertaking.  I like the thought process behind the plan.  Your backdrops look really solid.  I'm looking forward to watching your layout take shape.

I'm a bit surprised you have square (inside) corners, rather than coving them to round them off.  Did you consider that? 


dave

It's going to be outstanding.

Quote from: deemery on October 17, 2018, 08:59:19 AM
I'm a bit surprised you have square (inside) corners, rather than coving them to round them off.  Did you consider that? 


dave

Thanks Dave -yes, indeed. I spent a bunch of time thinking about that. The contractor even asked the same question after seeing that I had coved the corner with the valence over the Richton Park-to-Monee transition (see the pics above). In fact, my initial assumption was that I would cove all of the inner corners in the backdrop. The benefit is clear - no line to grab your attention in pictures. Also saves some work in terms of having to do the corner-mudding thing. The downside I saw was that I would be consuming available horizontal real estate - maybe even a lot of real estate depending how generous I made the radius of the backdrop. And, a 22" slab of 3/16" tempered hardboard isn't super flexible, although I know you can do things with water to help that like they do when making grand pianos.

In the end, I reasoned that since the thing I loved most about model railroading (at least at this point in time) is creating rich scenes with lots of structures (of course, you'd never know that to look at where I am so far). That meant preserving as much horizontal real estate as possible, especially with the relatively narrow benchwork I created for maintenance purposes.

What finally sealed the deal for me was my visit to NNGC 2018. I visited a lot of layouts - many of which had sharp corners. I made a point of evaluating whether that "ruined" the look for me and decided that it didn't. They may compromise a few photos along the way, but I didn't find it distracting in person.

We'll see how I feel about it in five years. ;)

Quote from: Janbouli on October 17, 2018, 03:04:37 AM
What a great space Vince , looking forward to years of keeping us informed  ;)

Thanks, Janbouli. Sounds weird when you say "years" but that's what it is. Makes me think I should have created an ICRR Chicago District thread rather than a Monee thread  ;D

I guess I'll worry about that excellent problem after Monee is finished.

Thanks Jerry and Curt. Nice to know a few people are watching. Not only provides some gentle pressure but I am hoping to also get some help along the way. Looking around at other threads and even other forums, I can see there are many people out there that have solved problems that I don't even know about, yet.

I think my coves were 4" - 5" diameter, so that didn't cost me very much real estate.  In the current layout, the one inside corner (where real estate is tight) will have a quarry - one of the few scenic elements I can think of that has that shape :-)  I still have a couple other inside corners to think about, but I'm far away from worrying about backdrops right now.


dave

Quote from: deemery on October 17, 2018, 02:09:44 PM
I think my coves were 4" - 5" diameter, so that didn't cost me very much real estate.  In the current layout, the one inside corner (where real estate is tight) will have a quarry - one of the few scenic elements I can think of that has that shape :-)  I still have a couple other inside corners to think about, but I'm far away from worrying about backdrops right now.


dave

Wow - that's a 2" or 2.5" radius. Super tight. Not sure you could get hardboard to do that even if you soaked it in water overnight. But, as you said, perfect for a quarry.

When I started thinking about this over a year ago, I researched all sorts of stuff like using styrene or vinyl flooring for the backdrop (better turn radius). I thought so hard about it that it took me more than 3 months to get started. (For fun, get my wife started on the discussion of how I overthink things. Be prepared to listen a while.) Interestingly, despite all that "thinking," I still did the wrong thing by using Liquid Nails only for the furring strips - no anchors. Subsequently it fell off the wall a year later. Ah well. Live and learn. Hopefully I saved someone else from making this mistake.

BTW, even though I am at peace with leveraging or hiding the inside corners, I do still have two convex (outside) corners that I am not sure what to do with. There were some suggestions earlier on in this thread to use overpasses, tunnels, and/or mirrors. It also occurred to me to use a building flat on the two corners. Not sure what to do yet but that decision isn't far off.

Vince,

The back drops look fantastic and you did an excellent job on getting them up.

I look forward to all you have planned for the future of the layout.

Tom  ;D

Quote from: ACL1504 on October 17, 2018, 03:38:24 PM
Vince,

The back drops look fantastic and you did an excellent job on getting them up.

I look forward to all you have planned for the future of the layout.

Tom  ;D

Thanks, Tom.

OK, back to work on Monee. Here are a couple of pics to show the result of the backdrop work. Showing Monee only...you already saw all of the other hardboard. Just imagine it's sky blue. Here's the north end of Monee:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-211018143640-348971070.jpeg&hash=8814f62aeac9bffd94f0c3ae6a2d33c98d8084a8)

No clouds, yet. I will put those in after I have a better idea of what is going on with the terrain. I plan to use the same technique as before - home made cloud stencils and rattle can white and gray paint made to create hazy cloud formations. Pretty much as described by Mike Deverell ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L9hD_9ML4U&t=977s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L9hD_9ML4U&t=977s) )

I put the two SRMW kits in their "pockets" just to give me something visual to think about. Ware Knitters on the left and Rugg (not quite complete) in the center. I also set down a station to represent the Monee Metra commuter stop across the tracks on the right. My recollection is that this is Fallburgh Station that I built a long time ago. Not sure if this will ultimately be the Monee depot or not.

Here's the south end of Monee:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-211018143643-349152325.jpeg&hash=99677e54a22ed26a0731382878298c08c11268fa)

This part of town is at a much higher elevation - hence the need for the "Monee Cut." I would guess that the town scene needs to be at its max altitude just about where you see that pink foam ending on the right (the pink foam is behind the tracks and is partially supporting Monee depot at the left of the picture). This is roughly what the real Monee topography does except that I will in a few feet be doing what naturally happens over a longer stretch (that is, longer than 87 times "a few feet").

Monee has two auto bridges that cross the tracks. In real life, they are just a few blocks apart. I hope to model them both. Then, there are streets that parallel the tracks on both sides of the cut. In real life, the tracks are straight and thus so are the streets. I chose to have a gentle curve throughout town for a somewhat more appealing view. That will mean the streets have to be curved, too.

Because of the high level of the scenery (4"-5" above the track which is, as you can see, a few inches above the bench work), this scene will be very close to the viewer's eyes. So, I would like to do everything I can for visual interest here. I am hoping this will be my first chance to do a few interiors as well as some lighting effects.

It's a bit overwhelming at the moment - so many kits and so many options from which to choose. Seems like it would be prudent at this point to get a high-fidelity drawing of the available spaces and start sketching some ideas. Probably need to pop open a lot of boxes to measure building and/or diorama footprints. For a long time I have been assuming that the left (north) end of town, near the backdrop, I would have something like Dexter's Dead End. Seems consistent with the shrinking space (shrinking from the perspective that the tracks are getting closer to the backdrop) as well as a terrain shape that needs to start going down hill. But, that's only the start of one idea. At its widest point (again, across the tracks), there should be room for another street closer to the backdrop that is also [somewhat] parallel to the tracks. What goes there?

I have a lot of questions that I would appreciate some comment on:

• Is this all one diorama (built away from the layout), no diorama (individual buildings built away from the layout and placed one at a time on location), or some combination? I would expect that a single diorama would be ridiculously unwieldy, but I don't want to assume anything.
• Depending on the answer to the above question, how do you have street sections mate up without having some ugly seams between sections (sort of like you see with modular layouts at train shows)?
• Can this be done with all styrofoam or does there need to be some plywood somewhere to keep things firm? If so, where? Top or bottom?
• Anybody live in the Chicago area that wants to help?  ;D

I'm going to start working on getting an accurate footprint of the spaces - both sides of the tracks - to get the ball rolling. Would definitely welcome ideas from any followers out there.

Vince,


I based the one scene I am satisfied with on my D&N on a photo in a book on the railroad.  I liked the view up the curving street toward the tracks and station.  I did not have enough depth on the module to do more than capture the spirit of the scene in the photo.  I made cardboard mockups by printing out copies of structures from the instruction sheets in the kits.  I then moved them around until I had the structures positioned to my satisfaction based on the height, length, viewing angles, view blocks, etc.  This allowed me to visualize the street and the interaction between the structures.  I felt this gave me a better idea of the final scene than I would have had if I simply used a representation of the area the structure would occupy.  As you can see in the photo I did use a couple structure footprints for the photo.  I had already used some wall sections and or stand in structures to get a better idea of the scene, though they are not shown in the photo.  I attached a pic from my thread on the D&N to show you what I did.
I recommend using mockups and fitting the structures into a given area.  Once you are satisfied with the overall concept, you could build a diorama at the workbench to make scenery and details easier to add.  If you look through some of Mark Dalrymple's threads you'll see how effective his use of mockups can be for composing a scene.  Based on the depth you have, I'd suggest using low relief structures along the backdrop and then highly detailed structures along the front to focus the viewer's interest on that part of the scene. 

Hi Vince.

Here is a link to one of my dioramas. 

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38814&whichpage=1

This one shows pretty well how the use of simple mock-ups can let you imagine the scene before starting on your kits.  I often get this far and throw entire ideas away or change them significantly, but usually its just a few tweaks.  This may seem like a waste of time - but its a tenth (hundredth?) of the time it would be to build the structure - and if I'd built the structure I'd probably live with something I'm not happy with. 

I scratch-built a structure based on a SRM kit for a competition in 2010.  I still haven't been able to find a space for it on the layout.  Just the other day, after doubling the size of Tellynott, I got it out of its box and moved it around on the bench-work.  It still didn't work anywhere, so back in its box it goes for a few more years!  This is a huge problem you will face with all your stacks of red and yellow boxes (yes - I am jealous!) - they are all designed to look good from ALL angles and sides - but yet you will pretty much never see half of them.  Do you have the nerve to cut them up, reconfigure them, turn them into low relief?

My dioramas range in size from a square foot to probably 8 square feet.  I build them on sheet polystyrene - often two sheets glued together, and they hold together fine.  There are different grades, so just make sure you get something fairly dense.  I believe there is gator board which is often used - I don't think we get that in NZ.  We do have pink foam that is used in refrigeration.  I use the high density white stuff.

I find that the more I can build at the work bench - the easier it is - so I tend to make my dioramas quite large.  I also try to make it the shape of the complex I am building - maybe framed by roads, track, river etc.  As you can imagine - my dioramas are never simple shapes.  I think this helps disguise the seams too, as the eye is always looking for straight lines.

If you keep good records of the techniques, materials and colours you use, you should be able to make the seams invisible.  If not there are plenty of techniques to hide them.  Just look at the building splices on the F&SM.  George used a myriad of techniques to hide these seams rather than spend hundreds of precious modelling hours carefully filing, filling, sanding and painting.  And if it looks like an error that catches the eye - accentuate it, make a feature out of it - such as a patch on the road, or a cable being laid.

For further help I suggest you spend some time looking through Troels Kirk's work, especially noting the scene he has pictured in his minds eye before he starts.  Troels has amazing artistic talent, and so is able to convey this image better than most - and he does with many pencil sketches.  Below is a link to part one of his layout build.  I believe he is presently on part 6?  Each part is 100 pages long.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23577

Gregg Wenzl is another one to check out - especially as he has done so much work with SRM kits (with help from James Lucas).  Below is a link to his layout thread, and within that are links to the individual structure builds.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22998

Hopes this helps, cheers, Mark.

Mark and Jerry, thanks a bunch for the suggestions and the links. Very helpful. I'm convinced and psyched - I need to do at least some level of mock-up rather than just wing it and throw buildings at the town. I have never built a mockup -- should be an "interesting" experience. Photocopying actual kit pieces and/or instruction cards sounds like a good start. I guess you use chipboard or foamcore or some other cheap material for the structures? I do really love the idea of moving things around and seeing how I like them. I just need to somehow develop the discipline to do this. Definitely a behavior change for me.

Mark, you hit a great point - do I have the nerve to cut an FSM kit in half so that I can use it as a flat/low relief structure? I have also lamented the fact that these kits look great from all sides and once they go on the layout you will never half of them again (unless maybe with a selfie stick). We'll see. If I do decide to do that, seems like the first place I would want to try it is somewhere I will have a spur where I can at least have both halves facing the track and get a more substantial trackside industry.

I'm still not 100% sure where to start but I think as a next step I will at least put in the terrain (foam) for downtown Monee - the "high" part of town. Once that's in place, I can start cutting out paper or cardboard roads and making mockup buildings and start playing. That will also give me some hints about how the backdrop will need to be treated, how much room there is for flats, etc.

Vince,


There are many ways to make structure mockups.  I chose to scan the plans from the instructions and then print them out using 110# cardstock (Walmart).  I cut the walls out with a straight edge and scalpel.  Then I taped and/or glued them together.  My mockups are neither complete, nor fancy.  Most lack roofs, chimneys stick up on both sides, etc.  If the instructions had no full size drawings, I scan the actual walls, print them onto the cardstock, and assemble them. 
One advantage to this is that if the depth of the structure does not fit in the available space, I know it before I start construction.  I then have the option of shortening the length of the side walls, or choosing another structure.  I did sketch out one scratch building simply drawing the windows and doors onto the cardstock before cutting it out. 
I personally would be loath to turn an FSM kit into a low relief structure.  If you can angle or curve your streets, more of the structure will be available to view than if it is placed parallel to the edge of the benchwork.
I think placing the foam to plan out grades and potential street locations before siting buildings is an excellent approach. 
I'll be following along to see how you bring this together. 

I'm back. I had some priority things to do on the railroad that kept me from focusing solely on Monee for a while (the story probably isn't interesting) but I can provide an update now.

Thanks to Mark and Jerry, I took the plunge and tried doing some mocking up. Not at their level of fit and finish, but sooooo glad I did. I put in some foam first on the east side of the tracks to at least raise the terrain to where I thought it should be. That probably should have been part of the mockup but I decided to just dive in on that part. Then, I followed Jerry's suggestion and made some building walls printed on 110 pound paper. Didn't have drawings so I just photocopied the laser-cut walls. Works great.

I'll start with pics and then describe from there.

Here's a shot from the north:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-271118070839-3569229.jpeg&hash=c57583efea81143f3f1ee75827e696ed7607b594)

You may recognize the "kit" closest to you - that's Dexter's Dead End. My original thought was that this would be good here because it could naturally be set to match the taper caused by the angle of the track work. After seeing it in place, I think I'm sold. Feels like a good choice.

The "bridge" you see across the tracks is Court Street - one of two major bridges in town that cross the tracks. In my earlier pics, this was a scratch built wooden bridge (that was too narrow). Going forward, I'm going to scratch build more modern ones that match the prototype. I put an autorack car there to gauge how much head room there was between the bridge and the top of cars. Didn't want to just clear an NMRA gauge -- going for more of a "look." More on that later.

More in a minute.

Here I'm standing in the aisle a little further south, looking due east. Court street bridge to the left, main street bridge to the right. My plan here was to have G Wilikers smack dab in the middle and have it flanked by two other kits - probably FSM Stuffy's on the left and something else on the right (to be determined). This is likely to be one of the best viewing points on the layout - the terrain is high....closer to eye level and it is close to the aisle because the track is furthest away from the backdrop at this point. Add to this the fact that G Wilikers is perhaps my favorite FSM kit and the choice was a no brainer. Here's the pic:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-271118070843-35696896.jpeg&hash=5445c3074c4d267a02f4f8c614a990ffaeb7e720)

So, OK, I could have spent a little more time on this mockup, but it's support to be a tool, not an NMRA contest entry. And quite a tool it was. I immediately see that that long protruding deck on the right side (as we are looking at the picture) causes the main structure to be set way back to fit. What you don't see is that I will have a small, two-lane road that parallels the track at the top of the embankment - just as in real life. That road services these businesses. So, now I can see that GW has a bunch of empty space in front of it. Would end up being parking but too wasteful for this kind of prime real estate. I could help somewhat by trimming down that deck to be a bit shorter (it's around 7.5 inches now) but I wouldn't want to take that too far. Much of the building's charisma comes from that feature (for me, at least).

What you also can't see in this pic is that there will be another small road in front of those flats you see in the background (DPM, City Classics). If you take the frontage road, plus GW with its setback, you get a road that is way too skinny in the back. A little skinny would be OK, I think. Seth Puffer uses that effect to great advantage on his railroad (saw it in person at NNGC - thanks Seth). But, There has to be some width there or it's not going to be believable. The other problem with GW is that it's long and straight. Can't be bent without some kit bashing. And that frontage road will have an arc to it to match the tracks.

So, G Wilikers is out. What I need is something that sits right up on the road and has individual buildings whose position can be adjusted to match the road curvature. After looking over the FSM kits, I think that Westside Auto would be perfect. No setback, individual buildings that I think would work in an arc. Not very deep from front to back. I haven't mocked it up, yet, but will do that shortly.

On the right of Wilikers here (between GW and main street) there is about 11 or 12 inches. I haven't decided exactly what to do here but the couple of thoughts I had were either (1) one of the Bar Mills higher end kits (but not super kits) like Goldie Electric or American Seltzer or Schmidchens or Glbleys, or ....etc), or (2) Sierra West O'Neills. I am guessing that I probably would not want to use O'Neills because the detail is so rich I will want to put it somewhere where there is good visibility on at least three sides. We'll see.

I have some errands to run now. I will post more pics and discussion later tonight.

OK, I'm back. Here's the south end of Monee:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-271118070848-35698598.jpeg&hash=29c55b159bd6e261b8bf480b891a3a9b4f76b316)

My plan was to use the Bar Mills FSM Tribute kit #1 and you see the mockup here. I still like the idea. You can see that I arranged them more or less as Bar Mills did in their ad and photo on the box. That arrangement leaves a lot of space open in the front so I may move them forward a bit. That also leaves a little room in back to do something more against the backdrop. The time is now to figure out how I am going to deal with the 90 degree convex corner. Not a lot of room between the tracks and the backdrop as you can see.

That's the Main street bridge over the tracks and G Wilikers is just out of the frame to the left.

Here's the north end of town:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-271118070845-356971947.jpeg&hash=e32d0d398c83e62f9f34d111e3de71382adee66c)

As I have thought about it more, I do like using the Fallburgh station there so I think it will stay. You can see Dexter's up on the "hill" to the right. I am going to cut the foam to bring connect the two elevations. I am not sure yet if I will do that more or less linearly or whether I will have a more gradual slope and cut it off with a retaining wall of some sort near the station. In the real Monee, there was previous a grain elevator that had a concrete foundation in this general area that sort of has that look. Might be OK. Looks like we're going to need some mockup on the terrain, too.

Just a couple more things to mention. Here is a shot closer to ground level.

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-271118071641-357001162.jpeg&hash=f8b640ba18d32f13d5c43e3c845c04b22a98000d)

If you look at the embankment next to the loco, you can see that the foam is pretty close. By the time I get some foliage on there it will be in the way. Here's a better look:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-291118213324.jpeg&hash=4735cfd77921bef578e5d47e8b333211935afbcb)

Also, the bridges over the tracks have piers on either side as well.  I have no room for them here. So, I'm going to cut the hill back another 1/2" or 1" or so. Trying to be as stingy as possible here because that takes away space from the town, of course.

Also notice that the "bridge" pretty much comes across at the level of the top of the foam. Some of you might have seen a post of mine a couple weeks ago where I was asking about carving diorama "pockets" out of foam so that I could do much of the building away from the layout and then set the diorama bases in flush with the terrain when done. Jury is still out on that. If I could do it again, I would make the hill 1/2" or 1" shorter and then I could just set the dioramas on top and fill in material around them. (Right now Mark and Jerry are saying, justifiably, "See what happens when you don't mock it up first?").

More in a minute....

So, all of thinking about dioramas led me to ask the question whether I could tolerate the town being 1/2" taller. If so, I could still lay 1/2" Gatorfoam dios on top and have no problems. To get a better feel for what that would look like:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-271118071644-35701453.jpeg&hash=a310984aec8918e5248a99d251aa6bd6580f0ef8)

That's 1x2 stock so it's actually 3/4" higher. I'm also using my old scratch built bridge here but that's not what will be there in the end. Just trying to get a feel for the look. I think it's not too bad. That is, the headroom between the engines and the bottom of the bridge. Here's a shot of the real Monee to give you a feel for what I'm comparing to:

(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modelersforum.com%2Fgallery%2F760-271118072424.jpeg&hash=dc281d4f0cbec88d454d2719cee385d395800e96)

Definitely lower relative to the locos. Also, the angle of my embankment is close to 45 degrees. That means if I go up some additional amount, I will also lose that same amount on the horizontal space. Next step is to cut out some roads and mock up Westside Auto and do some more precise measurements.

By the way, in the real Monee pic, you can see one of the bridge piers. And, if you look closely under the bridge -- sort of behind the RailBox box car, you can see the grain elevator foundation I mentioned earlier.

OK. That's it for now. As I said, many thanks to the group for nudging me in the direction of doing some level of mockups first. It has been extremely helpful. (Hmmmm. Planning before doing is a good idea...who knew?) Plus, it makes the area just a little more pleasant to look at while it's waiting for the real scenery and structures to be built. So much to do -- and this is only the east side of the tracks.

Oh, and for those of you wondering what I was thinking using SD40-2s where the real Monee pic has SD-70s, rest assured that I have them. But, I just didn't feel like unboxing them for these pics.  :)

Later, all

Vince - I always put roofs on my mock-ups.  It makes a world of difference to how you see things.  The roof shapes are such an important part of a model.  I recommend buying some black card and cutting roofs with correct overhangs.  Its not just the individual roof, but how all of the roofs work together.  They can make terrific leading lines, leading your eye into a scene.  I also use plain coloured paper to mock up roads and water.  Again this is important for seeing how your eye will move into and around the scene.  Also consider putting the road at the back on a slight angle to the backdrop.  Wedged shape buildings are much easier to disguise their thinness, and give you more options for negative and positive detail.  You don't need much to make a big difference.  check out Ken Hamiltons amazing work using negative and positive detail with the M. T. Arms hotel kitbash.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24466

G. Willikers is my favourite FSM kit too.  I'm off to look at some pictures of it now.  A simple method to begin with is to cut a piece of paper to the structures base size.  You can then quickly check out if it will fit.  This is also helpful with multi- structure kits (including buildings joined by work-overs).  Just because the kit is built that way in the pictures doesn't mean you have to build it that way.  Look at Greg W's unique way of putting together Lumson and Goodnow (previous link).

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks, Mark. My wife is a retired school teacher and, I am SURE, has some black paper/card lying around in her leftover stashes somewhere. I can see that roofs would add additional insight on view blocks as well that would help inform where background detail would and would not be noticeable and it would certainly add to the impact of the model model. We'll see if I can come up with the discipline to take it to that level. I would have bet against me even getting this far...

Couple of questions. You mention putting the back road at an angle to the backdrop. I assume you mean the left-to-right back road that will be running on front of the low-relief buildings and behind the foreground ones? In other words, superelevate that back north-south street and have it higher on the backdrop side? If so, do you have any rules of thumb for how much to raise it? Also, what do you mean by wedge-shaped buildings? Trapezoids that are wider in front (along the street) than they are in back (against the background)?

Also, that Ken Hamilton stuff is crazy amazing. Anyone reading this that hasn't yet checked out that link, please go take a look. By page 6 of the thread, you see a fantastic city storefront scene that was created by starting out with a simple DPM kit.

One final question - Ken starts his thread by showing how he chopped up the front wall. I suspect that a band saw makes pretty short work of that task. But, for those of us who do not have one, what do you do? The only thing I can think of is a razor saw but I can't imagine I could do that and make it look good.

Vince,


I read thru what you are proposing, and I have a suggestion.  I would suggest that you remove the top 2" layer of foam.  With that out of the way, you can build your dioramas on 1" foam bases and adjust the height by shimming them above the two layers of foam.  If you check out Harbor Freight,  they have a rather inexpensive "Oscillating Multi-Function" tool.  If you used one of these with a wide flat blade, you should be able to use it to remove the top later of foam.  It could also be used to cut down into the foam to allow you to drop in the diorama bases into the existing foam scenery. 


What Mark means by "trapezoid' background buildings are shallow relief structures that have a longer end wall on one end than the other.  Thus, they are not rectangular and sit at an angle to the backdrop rather than parallel.  This allows you to lay out your roads at a similar angle. Laying out roads at an angle to the backdrop helps draw the viewer's eye into the scene.  Slight changes in elevation also help draw the eye into the scene.  In my opinion, even a quarter inch of elevation change makes a scene more realistic than an area that is dead flat.  FWIW, when I laid the track on my modules, the sidings are laid directly on the foam while the main is on cork roadbed. 


You can cut DPM or other plastic structures with a razor saw.  Once you decide where you want to cut, firmly clamp a straight edge as a guide for the cut.  Then it just takes some time and patience.  Of course, you will no longer have the brick surface where you made the cut so you will have to decide how to handle that, maybe with some plastic brick sheet or something similar.  Cutting plastic with a power saw can be tricky.  It is very easy to generate enough heat to melt the plastic along the cut.  I prefer to use a razor saw, it takes longer but I find I have a better result. 

Hi Vince.

I had the same idea as Jerry - remove the top layer of foam.  By adding more height you are also loosing more flat area for structures - so I think it would be worth the effort. 

Cutting DPM (and other) kits up I have found easiest with a Tamiya scriber.  This little device pulls a V out of the material quickly and easily.  It is also very neat, and so very little filing is needed.  Just don't use it on your cutting board, because your board wont heal.

Jerry is correct with his interpretation of my last reply.  The road and the backdrop would leave behind a triangular shape.  Rather than use a whole lot of words - here is a link to one of my threads where you can see how large you can make a wedge shaped building with a very small base appear.  Page one shows my use of mock-ups letting me visualize the finished scene - including paper for roads and water.  On page four is a great example of how mock-up roofs can let you see how a view could be framed.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38814&whichpage=2 

The road does not need to be on much of an angle to work wonders, and of course it can kink back the other way when it runs too far from the backdrop, or it can be curved.  I love elevation changes.  I think it adds a ton of interest to the scene, but it does make the build more complex.  Page three of the above thread shows my corner diorama.  You can see how much impact the tower on the brewery (far right) has by being forward from the main structure by just 1/2 inch.  This idea was suggested to me on an on-line forum.  I already had the plaster roads in place.  I mocked the idea up and could immediately see how much of a difference it made.  It was a lot of work to redo the roading, but very much worth it.

Re the cutting up of craftsman kits.  One option is to use a structure in a position where only two sides can be seen, and using plain walls on the other two sides.  In this way you still have half a kit remaining for another structure.  A wedge shaped relief building is an example of where this would work.  I'm not saying you should do this - but building the entire structure and then placing it in a position where half of it can never be seen is to me more wasteful.  Its a waste of a beautiful scene and a waste of your time.  I just think its a problem you (and many others) will ran into.  I started off kit-bashing smaller, cheaper kits and moved my way up to more complex and expensive undertakings.  I try to change every kit - ultimately to a state where the original kit is unrecognizable.  I also kit-mingle.  The wedge shaped building in the tread uses parts from several different kits.

Cheers, Mark.

Well, I'm finally back and working on this. Man, it has been over a year. OK, sticking to my plan, I want to try to fully scenic one segment or town of the railroad just to have something I can call complete and something that visitors would enjoy. I have decided that Monee would be that town. If you look back a few posts, you will see that I had already planned a location for two previously built craftsman kits - SRMW Ware Knitters and Rugg Mfg. I decided that I would start north of Monee where these two industries are and work my way south.

These two industries are on the aisle side of the tracks. I don't want to be reaching over them to work on scenery near the backdrop so I will start there. This is in a corner and I decided that the FOS scale Bandit's Roost would be the anchor for that scene. I just finished the buildings for the kit. Here's the site I will start with:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320221758.jpeg)

The frame in front is where Ware Knitters goes (you can see it in place at the top of page 4). I put a first layer of foam down in back to just hold up the buildings. That isn't the final layout. The plan is to have the terrain mimic largely what Doug did with his demo model - increasing in height from front to back. I will be playing with this now to see how to structure it in a way that will also allow me to extend roads in both directions (left and right) to include several more buildings.

The kit was quite an experience for me - definitely overmatched considering my experience. I'll share some thoughts at the end but first some pictures of the individual buildings. I am nowhere near Opa George's creativity for innovation here. My goal was to try to go by the book to get the buildings more or less to FOS' plan.

Pictures to follow.

First up is the Vallon Paint Shop and adjoining burger joint. For all of these buildings, I still have some roof stuff and detail/junk to apply. I'm waiting until I figure out the final staging to see how I want to manage that stuff.

This kit had many firsts for me. One of them is using stencils. Another is those scaffolding-style of rooftop signs (burger joint). Is there a real name for that type of sign? For the display window in the paint store, I grabbed an image of the inside of a paint store from the internet and used it inside. It sort of works -- better than just an empty bay. But, some actual details in the bay window and a background picture more aligned with the rectilinear shape of the building would be more convincing.

I like the way the corrugated siding and roofing worked throughout the kit. Another first for me - paper corrugated product rather than the metal stuff. Super easy to work with. And, props to Jason Jensen and his videos for helping me up my weathering techniques for corrugated metal. Definitely looks better to me than the Rugg roofing I did (I did a build thread on that). And, one more first - doors and windows that were made of really skinny laser-cut wood rather than plastic. Very interesting.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212841-43634856.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212841-43635692.jpeg)

Next up, the gas station. Another first - never did stucco before. Did the usual thing with the Durham's Rock Hard Putty. Did some practicing on scrap first. I'm pretty happy with it. The pilot model uses stucco on the posts for the island where the pump is located. I decided I preferred to just use painted wood. Another scaffolding sign. My wife noticed the dot over the 'I' in Curtis. Made all the work worthwhile.  ;D Oh yeah, another first - task board construction. No biggie really, just a bit different.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212232-436301891.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212232-43631926.jpeg)

You can see I did not do a good job of cutting out the Texaco decal. I missed some of the outer black line. I will have to decide whether I want to go in with a fine-tip Sharpie and try to fix it. Pretty sure I won't. I have learned over time that when I go back to fix something I almost always make it worse.

The Callahan Machine shop. Another first - a building with angles that are not 90 degrees. Notice the signs here. The Beech-Nut sign should be black but it shows as brown because the sheet printed by FOS was done by a printer low on blue toner. The Callahan sign on the left was also a very pale brown. Fortunately, John Siekirk sent me a scan of his sheet (Thanks a bunch, John) and I was able to print one on my own printer with the proper colors. I thought about reprinting and re-doing Beech-Nut sign but felt I could live with the brown.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212231-436281637.jpeg)

The Harrison & Rochelle building. I love the architecture of this building. Another building with non-90 degree corners. Wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be. I especially like the tower. Instructions here (for the tower) were a bit difficult for me to follow. Many thanks to Opa George who clued me into how it went together.

The slate roof here was surprising. I had done slate before on Rugg, but South River gives you slate shingles that are made of gray paper. You only have to color the darker ones. The FOS paper was white. Had to paint it first. Small thing but something you notice when building a premium kit. Yet another scaffolding sign on the roof. I really hate building them but I love the way they look.

Also, the dormers for this building have windows with individual sashes. They also have accompanying window glazing that is pre-cut. Sounded good when I first saw it but the sizes don't match. I didn't have the patience to fully take advantage of their flexibility. I saw a comment from someone on this forum in the last week or two that said something along the lines of "I'm a layout modeler, not a contest modeler." I totally get that.

Lots of interesting details that I saw for the first time. The pulley in front is made from that skinny wood stuff. Even more interesting are the hinges for those three sets of doors in front. Takes a lot of time - those babies are really teeny -- but the effect is great once it's done.

For window glazing I tried Gallery Glass for the first time. Last time around (Rugg build) I just used Canopy glue. I have to say that I think the Canopy Glue works a little better. The Gallery Glass seems to be more prone to producing bubbles when it dries - even when you don't see them at first. Finally, I followed Doug's instructions and painted on the window shades rather than use paper. When I first did it I didn't like the effect but looking at it later I think it's OK. Again, layout modeling not contest modeling.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212840-436321014.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212840-436331870.jpeg)

Looks like I was too heavy-handed on the dirt-colored chalk weathering at the base of the building. I'll go back and soften that up a bit.

The stable building (or something like that). I didn't want or need a stable. Instead, I called it a Garden Supply shed. Very simple building.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212232-43629532.jpeg)

Last building - I don't recall what it is called. The FOS pilot model has a chute connecting this to the Harrison & Rochelle building. Not sure if I will use that or not. Will depend on how I have to lay the buildings out. Certainly a very unique structure.

Dragged out my PanPastels for the first time. I really like these. The colors and the adhesion is great. Have to be careful -- a little goes a long way. More corrugated roofing. I actually ended up being about 3/4" short of having enough roofing material. Fortunately, I took the time to stock up on a few things earlier this year and roofing was one of the things I purchased.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-230320212231-436251813.jpeg)

Those diagonal cross members on the supporting posts aren't really white -- it's just a lighting thing. I'll take another look at them now and maybe hit them with another coat of inkahol wash.

Some closing thoughts in the next post.

So, this was my first FOS kit. I have to say that I think the creativity of the building designs is excellent. Not your run of the mill building designs. Doug really uses angles to create interesting looks. Also has some good construction ideas. For example, for those rooftop signs he has you make one of the legs longer and then push it through the roof to aid installation. Really helps a lot.

I was disappointed at some of the quality aspects of the kit. It was short two windows. As I mentioned above, the sign sheet was not printed properly. I feel the bracing diagrams are frequently inadequate to prevent warpage (actually, no feeling about it -- I experienced warping). The 1/8" square wood supply is far too small. Fortunately, I keep a supply of that wood around, too. I ran short of some of the strip wood, ran short of corrugated roofing paper. Perhaps if I had cut things somewhat differently I would have had exactly enough material. Shouldn't be that way, though. At the price level of these kits, I wouldn't expect to have to go scrounging for material to finish. In the boiler house for Harrison & Rochelle, one of the laser cut walls was cut to the wrong size (too big, fortunately). And, in another forum here I already commented about the way walls are intermingled on the various sheets. It is a bit of a treasure hunt to find the matching pieces for some of the buildings. I definitely got spoiled by others (FSM, SRMW) that bag each building separately so that you are ready to go. Also disappointing was the fact that I couldn't get a response back from FOS when I asked for help (missing windows, and bad sign sheet, e.g.).

Lastly, the instructions are very light. I guess I can't complain because, in the end, I was able to build the kit (with the exception of George bailing me out on the Harrison Tower). But, it was a lot of work to track things down. I frequently had to go to the Internet to look at pictures I pulled from Facebook to check a few things. I think it would be reasonable to expect a few more pictures to be included in the kit - especially given that FOS seems to be leading the pack in terms of pricing now.

In the end, I enjoyed building this....and love the result. I also have Printer's Row that I am sure will produce a great model. I'll probably think pretty hard about getting any other FOS super kits, though. And, of course, I should build my zillion FSM and SRMW kits first anyway (my wife keeps reminding me).

Time to think about how to bring this all to life with the right terrain now.

Cheers,

Vince

Vince,

What a beautiful job you did on the build.  Absolutely stunning.   :D  I love everything about it.  The finish you got on the corrugated roofing is something I've been trying to emulate for years with varying degrees of success.  You absolutely nailed it.   ;D  ;D  ;D

I too echo many, if not all, of your sentiments regarding the quantity/quality of materials, instructions, etc.  I almost always find myself digging through my scrap box or strip wood stash to complete one of these builds.  It's particularly frustrating when, say, you've painted and weathered all the 1/6" square wood include in the kit for the corner trim on a structure and you come up a couple of inches short.  Then you have dig around for another piece then paint and weather it to match.  Missing parts (walls, windows, etc.) are an issue too.  Hey, I get it.  Mistakes can happen.  But they seem to happen a little more frequently than they should.  That's a real concern when you're putting these on the shelf and won't get around to building it for several years.

Great works on the structures.  My only complaint is it looks like they'll be far away from the viewing aisle when you've planted them.   ;D   I agree with you (and Bob) about kit issues as well. 


Jeff

Thanks, Bob. As you said, mistakes happen. But you would at least expect a response when you try to contact the supplier to report a problem. And there were many problems. The good news is we always have the elite group of modelers here that can help us out when we get in a jam.

For anyone interested, here is Jason Jensen's YouTube video on modeling corrugated metal. It definitely changed what I do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od4g4lKnV-o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od4g4lKnV-o)

He has videos of a lot of modeling techniques as well as pictures of his own evolving layout. Good stuff.

Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on March 24, 2020, 08:01:28 AM
Great works on the structures.  My only complaint is it looks like they'll be far away from the viewing aisle when you've planted them.   ;D   I agree with you (and Bob) about kit issues as well. 


Jeff

Thanks, Jeff. Yep - had the same thought about distance from the aisle. I am hoping that a somewhat dramatic terrain contour that slopes up as it goes back will help some. Also, the distance from the aisle is one of the reasons I was willing to experiment with Gallery Glass and the painted window shade technique. For close up buildings, I am hoping I will have the discipline to use thin styrene or acetate. I really like that look so much better. But, I'm a lazy sack when it comes to some things.... (another fact not lost on my wife).

Those structures look great , now get that scenery done so they loo like a great town  ;) .

Vince,

Ditto to all the other comments on the structures. Top notch modeling, love it all. Thanks for sharing the photos. I'll try Jason's corrugated siding method net time I have one to do.

Tom  ;D

It's going to shape up into a great scene Vince..... 8)

Vince,
You are so creative - like your perspective of placing things on your railroad.
Thanks for sharing all the new structure photos too. Great progress !
Tommy

Beautiful work, Vince!

Really appreciated your overall report, too.  When are you going to have a go at scratchbuilding?

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks to Janbouli, Tom L, Greg, and Tom B for the nice comments. I have been working with foam now to build up the terrain. Jeff's observation is now coming to the forefront. When/if I site the buildings as FOS does in their demo diorama, much of the nice detail and character of some of the buildings is lost. Guess that's a problem in general when you build craftsman kits and like that really dense, urban look that the FSM is famous for -- you can't help but hide a lot of the work you do. In this case, it's made worse by the fact that this scene is back in a corner. I can look at spacing buildings out and/or rearranging or separating them, but that starts to detract from the "look."

I am thinking about it more now but I think that in the end I will just need to get over it. The alternative is to have uninteresting buildings and/or lots of other scenic details (hills, rock faces, trees, etc). But, that's not what I like. I reckon a compromise might be that I need to be sure to take a lot of pictures when I'm building things so I can at least see the detail "off-line" if I want to.

I'll post a few pics in a while.

Quote from: mark dalrymple on March 29, 2020, 12:51:23 AM
Beautiful work, Vince!

Really appreciated your overall report, too.  When are you going to have a go at scratchbuilding?

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks, Mark. Funny you should mention that. There are still some (tho not many!) kits out there that I really like from FSM, SRMW, and others that I thought I would try to pick up on eBay sometime when the right price hit. As of a few months ago, I am not thinking that anymore. I can see that the time will come that I want to build some unique things from scratch. Not sure what that means, but you see in my signature that I am "protolancing" the IC. From the beginning I assumed that meant there would be a few scenes that would somewhat closely match reality. I think scratch building some actual buildings will be part of that.

I think I'm at least a year or two away from that for the moment. I would like to work through my kit collection for a while and continue to learn and build new skills while creating a little more interest for my track-only setup right now. It is interesting, tho, that this kit (Bandit) pushed me a little further in that direction. Having to deal with wrong-sized parts and missing material, one starts to realize that one is getting a little (very little, but some) closer to a scratch building environment.

Some updates - progress is slow because I want to [over]think the scene plan. Here's the starting point - I added 2" of foam to the base to the east (far) side of the tracks to make the background more visible.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-290320141034-436672149.jpeg)

The frame you see close to you (west side) is where Ware Knitters goes. More in a moment. Next, I set up Bandit in roughly the layout that FOS did in their promos:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-290320141034-43686935.jpeg)

As with the FOS layout, I have the back higher than the front. This will require exposing some foundation for the Harrison and Callahan buildings (just showing open air at the moment). I am only showing a 1" rise here. I think the FOS prototype uses something more like 1.5". Their Curtis gas station exposes more of the Callahan (green building) front wall than mine does. I do like the idea of reducing the extreme grade in the road from the gas station up and to the left.

More in a moment.

Here's a view from the aisle. At least, it's my view. Actual adult-sized people will have a somewhat higher perspective ;D

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-290320141035-436872467.jpeg)

I set the Ware diorama in the scene just to see how it looks. I think I am liking the vertical separation from from to back. Ware doesn't block Bandit.

The plan is to have a road go along the track on the Bandit side of the tracks until it gets closer to the backdrop. At that point, I want to have the road go behind one or more buildings so that the interface between the road and the backdrop is hidden. I think it also provides a little more interest by breaking the pattern of having the road parallel the track for the entire curve. That paper mockup you see on the right is a building from FSM Dexter's Dead End that I placed just to help visualize the view block.

More in a bit.

Because I really like the Harrison building, I wanted to try a little harder to make it a little more prominent in the scene. So, here is a pic with only the Harrison building being raised another inch:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-290320141035-43688285.jpeg)

Of course, this means that the foundation in the front of the building will need to be that much taller. You can't see it in this picture because the gas station hides the overhang. I will need to make sure that doesn't look odd.

The only other consideration now is behind the entire Bandit complex. My current thinking is that I will have a Tee intersection in the road before it disappears into the backdrop (on the right side of this picture) and the road from that intersection will continue upgrade into the 90 degree corner to serve a couple of relatively low complexity businesses -- thinking a couple of the smaller Bar Mills kits, for example. I guess the other option would be to do something more with terrain - trees, hills, etc.

Exciting time - about to see a lot of new challenges:
  - How to do asphalt roads
  - How to use my static grass applicator
  - How paint (or avoid painting) some horizon content on the backdrop
  - Finding out if 20-year old bags of Sculptamold are still good
  - How I want to treat my track (painting, ballast coloring and weathering)
  - Others I don't know about yet.

Vince,

The Harrison building does look much better raised the little you have it. My vote for the higher elevation.

Tom  ;D

Quote from: ACL1504 on March 29, 2020, 03:22:50 PM
Vince,

The Harrison building does look much better raised the little you have it. My vote for the higher elevation.

Tom  ;D

Vince,


I agree with Tom, but I'd go one step further.  I would remove the billboard from the gas station roof thus opening up the view to the Harrison building.  That not only exposes more of the interesting narrow end of that structure, it helps draw the viewer's eye further into the scene.  I'd use a chimney and maybe a roof hatch on the gas station to add interest to that roof while not restricting the ling of sight to the Harrison building.

Hi Vince.

My advice would be to cut a whole bunch of different sized and thicknessed pieces of polystyrene, hide the Foscale picture of the setup, and go crazy.  Try all sorts of different configurations.  Massively accentuate the gradient - both front to back and side to side.  Photograph anything that you even partially like and later you can analize and try to work out why you like it.  The photographs also give you a record of what you did so you can recreate it.  I feel the Fos setup is a bit claustrophobic for your further away viewing, but more than this - it is the one opportunity you have to easily put your own stamp on this kit and make it unique.

Re the scratch-building - maybe you should put a Master Creations kit on your list?  If you can build one of those scratch-building will be a breeze!

On that note, I have scratch-built several structures based on SRM kits.  The main structure from Blackstones I built using the Walthers sugar refinery.  There was a bit of cutting and splicing and scratch-building additions, but otherwise pretty straight forwards.  I think I still have photos of how I cut up the refinery - if you're interested.

Cheers, Mark.

Quote from: jerryrbeach on March 29, 2020, 03:43:47 PM

Quote from: ACL1504 on March 29, 2020, 03:22:50 PM
Vince,

The Harrison building does look much better raised the little you have it. My vote for the higher elevation.

Tom  ;D

Vince,


I agree with Tom, but I'd go one step further.  I would remove the billboard from the gas station roof thus opening up the view to the Harrison building.  That not only exposes more of the interesting narrow end of that structure, it helps draw the viewer's eye further into the scene.  I'd use a chimney and maybe a roof hatch on the gas station to add interest to that roof while not restricting the ling of sight to the Harrison building.

Thanks, Jerry. Not only is that a good idea, but you triggered the thought that I should just move the gas station altogether. That would also give me a little more horizontal run to lessen the grade on the road as it wraps around the Callahan building since I wouldn't need to be at "street level" at the end of the building. Plus, visibility would be even better, yet.

Mark, to your point, I have been trying what you said and for some reason am just having a creative/mental block.....just don't like any of the other arrangements I have been coming up with. Maybe because I was knee-deep in building the kit for almost three months -- can't see anything else, yet. Maybe I need to go back and do some more wiring to refresh my motivation :-)

Hey Vince:

Both structure kits are very well done. Keep up the great work and keep the layout photos coming.

Karl

You could try something like making a set of cards with the names of the structures written on them, shuffling them, and then throwing them on the kitchen table.  Then emulate their positions with the actual structures and changes in height.  Not saying it will definitely  work, but it might break you out of the forest and throw up a few different ideas.  You can then build on these new ideas and perhaps find a new direction.  Also - don't be afraid to 'remove' a structure.  You can always place it somewhere else.

Cheers, Mark.

Looks great all around Vince. I love the elevated tower, particularly for a background scene, very dramatic! In my opinion, the farther away from the front the structures are, the more exaggerated the effects should be. Doug's displays are so good at utilizing steep roads and multiple levels. My own opinion is that nobody (that I care about) is going to interrogate me about the prototype engineering issues, I like drama! (only in my hobby ;D )


Nice Work!


John

Hi guys -- been a while. After a lot of thinking and all the great input from the folks here and some opinions from my wife (never to be taken lightly!), I have decided and realized that I really need to break up the Bandit's Roost building collection. The real clincher was the Harrison Building. I really like the unique design and interesting lines and don't want it to be pushed back in a corner where I won't be able to enjoy it as much. So, my plan became:

1) Find a different way to fill the corner
2) build some other small kits to help populate the area

For (2), I decided to build my first Bar Mills Kit - the Homer Paint/Old Dominion duo. Details on that build to follow. For the different way to fill the corner, I decided I would use another Bar Mills Kit - their recent Christmas super kit release - Queen City Coal. I like that kit because it seems to be designed in a way that is compatible with a corner. Here's the ad for that kit:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-060520235737.jpeg)

More in a minute...

So, now I'm thinking the new layout looks something like this:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-060520234704-44139142.jpeg)

The black raised platform will hold the Queen City diorama. The paper "road" is Illinois State Highway 50 that parallels the IC for most of the route I am modeling. I like the idea of running it under a bridge (the Rix model you see) to help conceal the interface with the backdrop. That same bridge is the road that represents the only access to QC Coal. The Callahan Machining building (from Bandit) is a nice, two-story structure that I am hoping will help me justify the disappearance of the road to the right of the bridge into the backdrop. I am sort of phoning it in, I guess, with retaining walls around QC coal so that I can put in a few more short structures along Hwy 50 that do not obscure the view of the upper diorama. To the left you can see Homer Paint. That's just sitting there for the moment -- treatment on that left/north side of the QC dio not yet worked out.

The white cutouts you see on the dio base are 1:1 footprints of the actual buildings from QC coal. I wanted to make sure I could orient them in a way that would allow for some foliage in front of the backdrop and also not be blocked by any foreground buildings.

Here's a view from a slightly higher angle:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-060520234704-441401504.jpeg)

I have pics from builds of Homer and Old Dominion. Will follow up with those shortly.

HOMER PAINT

OK. I wanted to share some details on the build of the two Bar Mills Homer Kit buildings. First, I have to apologize that this won't be a great build thread. Both of these buildings have been finished for a while. I took some pics along the way so that I could go back later (which is now) and share some of the experience. But, doing it after the fact will miss a lot of the detail, so, sorry about that. Hopefully there are still a couple of things of interest here.

First off, here are the boxes:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520004104-44141262.jpeg)

Two boxes. Roughly speaking, one box contains the parts for the Homer Building and water tower, the other contains the parts for Old Dominion. Not completely true, though. There are things mixed together. Not hard to sort out, though.

Open the boxes and you see:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520004104-441431514.jpeg)

Lots of goodies, here. Bar Mills includes some Woodland Scenics figures here, some insta-fence, both plastic and wood windows, pre-cut glazing, metal and resin details, and the usual assortment of milled siding, stripwood, and chipboard for roofing. In the right box, you can see the three strips of stone foundation that is used for Homer. It is task board that has stonework laser-etched in. We'll talk more about that later.

The manual for both buildings comes in one document that you see at the bottom.

More shortly...

So, here's a fun fact. My instruction booklet was an error. It appears to be an early version that was used to mark up errors. There is yellow highlighter on most pages. Here's a sample:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520004105-44146311.jpeg)

There is even a coffee stain on the bottom of a couple of the pages. I envisioned that Art was redlining this document some Sunday in his favorite easy chair while watching football. Who knows, maybe this special copy is worth something on eBay  :)

The errors weren't really a problem except for the fact that the manual did not include the sign page. No sweat -- I called Art and he emailed me a PDF within a couple of hours. Big contrast in support from my experience with FOS.

As a side note, I have started looking at the manuals for Queen City Coal. Those are *not* filled with highlighter markings but still contains zillions of errors. Among Bar Mills' many talents, copy editing is not one. I am tempted to call Art up and offer to do some free cleanup of his documentation on new kits....he probably wouldn't be interested, anyway.

More shortly...

So, starting on the Homer building. First up is the foundation. This is new for me. This is the first kit I have run into that provides wood foundations. The South River kits have lots of hydrocal bases, but I haven't seen wood yet. Here are the pieces just placed together to check fit for the main structure:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520010135-44147519.jpeg)

Now to glue them and make sure they're square:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520010135-441482159.jpeg)

And finally, the foundation for the shed in back. The shed is situated slightly below the rest of the structure. Those foundation pieces are just a skosh shorter.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520010136-441491385.jpeg)

More shortly....

Time for the walls. Who doesn't love bracing the walls. Instructions were straightforward, here. Enough wood to do the job. The instructions actually say that the bracing wood is 5/32" rather than 1/8" ... a little bigger. I actually didn't bother checking but I assume it's true. Bigger is better, right? Here are the raw walls braced:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520011002-441501281.jpeg)

Something that seemed very odd to me - check out the floor for the main building. There is laser-etched planking for only half the floor. Even odder, the half that is not planked is the half that is exposable to the loading dock. Yes, I checked the instructions a few hundred times -- I didn't get it backward. What I did matches the pictures. Maybe that's another artifact of the early-version manual...dunno. I thought about reversing the orientation but decided not to. I wasn't 100% sure that it was truly symmetrical. Doesn't really matter. In the end, you will see that I left the loading dock door only partially open and there's nothing noticeable here. I just don't understand why you wouldn't etch the whole floor.

More shortly.....

Here are the walls after priming. I primed these using a watery wash of Apple Barrel Pewter Grey. I wanted wood that looked very gray after applying the inkahol mix later. Given that I don't have any more Floquil Driftwood like apparently everyone else on the forum, this will have to do. This idea comes from the many great ideas Jason Jensen provides in his YouTube videos. Thanks, Jason, for all of your unselfish work in this area.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520011002-441511544.jpeg)

More shortly....

And finally, the walls are painted. In this pic, you only see some dry brushing with white paint. You will later see what they look like when I hit the walls with the inkahol to darken them up a bit. I used Signal Green for the windows and corner trim. You can see here that the windows for Homer are plastic. Later, you will see that the Old Dominion windows are wood assemblies.

One other neat thing here -- Bar Mills has this thing called "rafter combs." You can see one of them just above the shed foundation in the picture (the part is numbered 18). I have never seen this before. What a great idea. You'll see what they look like when they are installed in a bit. Bar Mills also uses this same "comb" architecture to do loading docks, wood landings, and other wooden platforms. Nice time saver.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520011003-441521603.jpeg)

OK....it's past midnight. Gonna call it quits for now and will try to at least finish up the Homer building piece of the thread tomorrow night.

Cheers.

OK, I lied. One more step. Here are the finished walls. Inkahol wash added along with signs. A few other things going on here. First, you see a couple of freight doors that you didn't see before. Those are wood assemblies. You can also see the loading dock on the left. It is planked. There is also the foundation for the ramp that is not yet planked. I did the windows here with glue, not the pre-cut acetate. For Dominion I did use the acetate. I do really love the look of the clear plastic sheets but I do so hate the work. Pre-cut does help some.

BTW, I did notice that there is not enough planking supplied with the kit. The number of 2x8s used for the flooring matches what the bag says should come with it. But, there is no way to get the job done without two additional strips. FortunatelyIa now keep some supplies in stock so it didn't hold me up. I sent Art an email telling him about the problem. No idea if anything will change (or even if the kit is still in production).

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520013411.jpeg)

We'll put 'em together tomorrow and see how it looks.

Looking really good, Vince.

I'm enjoying following along and appreciate your thought process as things develop.  I think too many of us are scare to show how our ideas 'grow', but it is such an important part of the journey.

Might I suggest that you go to the trouble of making some quick mock-ups of the Queens City Coal structures to put in position, and also mock up the land-form (with scraps of polystyrene or even scrunched up paper) before the retaining walls and raised flat site were put there.  I think it will be important to show some of this gradual elevation change, and it will help you visualize what the land looked like before man decided to build there.

Cheers, Mark.

Off to a great start Vince.

Looking good.

Hey Vince:

Looks great so far.

Karl

Excellent looking build Vince.

Quote from: mark dalrymple on May 07, 2020, 04:08:54 AM
Looking really good, Vince.

I'm enjoying following along and appreciate your thought process as things develop.  I think too many of us are scare to show how our ideas 'grow', but it is such an important part of the journey.

Might I suggest that you go to the trouble of making some quick mock-ups of the Queens City Coal structures to put in position, and also mock up the land-form (with scraps of polystyrene or even scrunched up paper) before the retaining walls and raised flat site were put there.  I think it will be important to show some of this gradual elevation change, and it will help you visualize what the land looked like before man decided to build there.

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks, Mark. Yes, I hope to mock up the buildings. Bar Mills gives you lots of to-scale drawings. Easy enough to photocopy and tape together. I will want to do that so that I can work on the interfaces to the diorama and work on them independently while I work on the actual dio. And I did rough in some landform shapes using paper wads,  foam scraps, little bottles, and crumpled paper. That's how I got to the decision of retaining walls and entering Queen City Coal from the back. Originally I played with a lot of examples that had an access road coming up from Rte 50. None of them appealed to me. I do still need more work on the north/left side of the dio as you can see.

Thank you Janbouli, Bob, Karl, and Curt. Appreciate it.

OK, my second favorite part of any build - putting the walls together so that all the pre-work starts to look like something (my favorite part is when the structure is finished so that I can look at it). Because the outside walls have so much texture (signs, windows, doors), I use the machining square on the inside. In a couple of places, I glued in some extra bracing fragments to make it easy to butt up against the angles. I did two sets of two walls at once to save a little time.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194053-441532196.jpeg)

More shortly....

Walls are together - next step is to insert the rafter combs.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194054-44155145.jpeg)

There's not "just one place" the combs fit. As you can see, the rafter tails are quite long. You can slide the combs up and down along the roof line quite a bit, at your discretion. The end result is that you just have more or less rafter tail to snip off. I slid mine up toward the apex a bit to just give me a little more support for the side walls.

More shortly.....

Here's a full-on shot of the front wall (whatever front means for a building like this):

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194054-441561088.jpeg)

I haven't yet said anything about the wood slats that cover the foundation. These are pretty interesting, too. Should have taken a pic before installing. This is really another kind of comb. Kindof like their insta-fence. Imagine a thin wooden sprue that runs along the bottom of these slats, connecting them all. You glue the slats to the wood foundation (that you saw earlier). Then, when it's dried, you just clip off the sprue and however much slat you need to clip off to be flush with the ground. Bar Mills suggests you use cuticle scissors. That works. So do Xuron tools such as sprue cutters or rail nippers. Once the glue dried, I just stained them. I actually don't remember what kind of stain I used. It was either inkahol or some Hunterline Creosote Black stain. Very similar, of course.

More shortly....

Here's a view from the shed side. It's not particularly interesting except that I wanted to show the very small clearance between the shed roof and the main roof. Not much at all. Certainly not enough for the 2x6 trim piece. Because of this, I made sure to install the shed roof first and put on the tar paper before doing the main roof.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194340.jpeg)

More shortly....

Not much more in the way of interim pics. Here is the finished structure from the front:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194757-4415944.jpeg)

The roof is on now. Bar Mills gives you some of their own paper but I just used some of my own stock I had lying around. You can see the loading dock is in place now with all of the planking. The cross braces that you see underneath are not part of the kit or the instructions. I added them myself using 2x6 strip wood.

The Homer Paint Co sign is interesting. The horizontal supports you see are actually one single laser cut piece. Then, for the 3D look of the lettering, there are two more sets of lettering that you glue on top of that. The net effect is that it appears that big 3D letters have been attached to the sign backing.

The chimney is a resin casting. The pitch of the roof is VERY shallow. So, no cutting or sanding was necessary to get it vertical. I just held it in place for a few seconds while the Canopy glue set up and it was good. I painted the chimney by first spray painting the casting white. Followed then by dry brushing on the brick red, staying out of the grout lines. A little concrete colored paint on the protruding outline of the chimney at the top and then black on top and inside. Finish off with some black chalk scrubbed into the top third-ish or so of the chimney.

The ladder you see is one of a few laser-cut details they give you on one of the sheets. Not super detailed since it's completely flat, but still contributes, I think.

This picture really highlights the crummy job I did with the open window on the shed at the right. Many attempts to get that right. I'm not exactly sure how I made it so much harder than it really is.

More shortly.....

A view from the loading dock side. I left the door a little open to expose a barrel with a little splash of color.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194757-441611880.jpeg)

The back:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194757-441621782.jpeg)

Something I didn't mention before. When I placed the loading dock up against the building, the planking didn't touch the building. I solved this by using a 2x4 wood strip as the last piece next to all of the 2x8s. You can see it pretty clearly in this pic.

I also didn't say anything about the rotting wood effect. That is just PanPastel chalks used at the bottom of the siding just above the wood slats.

Here's an angled shot to show the steps from the back:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194758-44163233.jpeg)

If you look at the landing by the door, notice the joists that support it. This is another example of one of their "combs." In reality, that is a piece that looks just like the rafter combs do. Again, a nice time saver. Because this platform is so small, I didn't think it needed diagonal cross braces. Wonder what I would have done in real life.

Last pic - one more angle:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-070520194758-441641697.jpeg)

That's it for Homer. There are many more detail parts that came with it. I am holding off  placing them for now as I want to see how and where I situate the buildings and parking lots before deciding how to use them.

Old Dominion building coming up next.

Cheers.

Great looking structure, though I'd think a paint company could afford to paint their building once in a while.   ;D


Jeff

That came up very nicely, Vince.

I think in reality the small deck would be fixed to the side of the building and the posts concreted into the ground - so no diagonals would be necessary.

Would it be possible for others building this structure to trim the foundation a bit on the small addition in order to drop the roof line and make the change more of a feature?  ie is there scope to do this with the kit?  Obviously it would mean an internal level change, but might be worth considering.

I mocked up my Potters Pub trio by copying the plans, cutting them out, and gluing them to blocks of polystyrene cut to the right size and shape.  Very quick and easy and they look rather good for a mock-up.  I agree that Bar Mills plans are very good.  I wish all kit producers included a full set of elevations and a plan view.

Cheers, Mark.

Vince,
Your Bar Mills Homer Paint build came out looking great !
Wish they were the low bidder for my house repaint this year, but my son won the job offer from his parents... :)
Tommy

Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on May 07, 2020, 08:47:57 PM
Great looking structure, though I'd think a paint company could afford to paint their building once in a while.   ;D


Jeff

I was thinking quite the same , on the other hand there's no money to be made painting your own building  ;)

Great job  Vince , I really like the weathering job , especially the wood border underneath the walls.

Quote from: Janbouli on May 08, 2020, 06:17:13 AM

Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on May 07, 2020, 08:47:57 PM
Great looking structure, though I'd think a paint company could afford to paint their building once in a while.   ;D


Jeff

I was thinking quite the same , on the other hand there's no money to be made painting your own building  ;)

Great job  Vince , I really like the weathering job , especially the wood border underneath the walls.

Me, three. I chuckled more than once about a paint building whose paint looked so bad (which means good for us, no?)

Quote from: mark dalrymple on May 07, 2020, 09:20:50 PM
That came up very nicely, Vince.

I think in reality the small deck would be fixed to the side of the building and the posts concreted into the ground - so no diagonals would be necessary.

Would it be possible for others building this structure to trim the foundation a bit on the small addition in order to drop the roof line and make the change more of a feature?  ie is there scope to do this with the kit?  Obviously it would mean an internal level change, but might be worth considering.

I mocked up my Potters Pub trio by copying the plans, cutting them out, and gluing them to blocks of polystyrene cut to the right size and shape.  Very quick and easy and they look rather good for a mock-up.  I agree that Bar Mills plans are very good.  I wish all kit producers included a full set of elevations and a plan view.

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks for justifying my laziness, Mark. You are a true friend, indeed  ;D

Your suggestion on lowering the addition is a great one. Would not be difficult at all. The foundation extension pieces and the walls have tabs that fit into slots in the main building that would have to be modified or trimmed away but that should be no problem. Also, the wall on the main building to which the extension attaches would have be be scribed at the top since now some of it would be exposed and you would want it to match the siding next to it. The basic piece comes as smooth wood there. Again, very doable.

It is always amazing to me how something that never even would have occurred to me is immediately imagined by others. Hoping I'll pick some of that over time.

Thanks Tom and Jeff. I really like the uniqueness of the building -- quite different from other things I have built and have yet to build.

It was a fun little structure to build. Only took about four days. I wanted a quick win after slogging thru Bandit's Roost for three months.

OK, Old Dominion up now. This is the other structure that comes with the Homer Kit. This building has also be finished for a while. And, I have far fewer pics of my steps along the way but I will share what I have along with a few observations that might be useful for any future builders.

You already saw the boxes before - here are the walls, braced per instructions:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520075937-44170709.jpeg)

A few things to point out here. First, see how cleverly I chose to show you the clapboard side of the wall at the bottom. Not a big loss, of course. You can probably imagine that the bracing doesn't look radically different from Wall 1 above it. And, bracing is a yawner anyway, I guess.

Second, look at wall 8. The hole in the lower left (will be lower right when you're looking at the building) is where an overhead door will go. The instructions seem to imply that you will only use the usual 1/16" square strip from the top of the wall to the bottom of the door there. That is supposed to represent both the corner trim for that part of the building and also the support for what will be the right side of the garage door. I didn't think that was right. If you do that and hold the door in place, there were gaps for me that looked too conspicuous. So, I ended up adding a second piece of 1/16" square strip just inside of it that runs the height of the garage door. I think we will see what that looks like in an upcoming picture.

Finally, take a look at walls 2 and 4 in the upper right. Difficult to see here but the bracing diagram has you run the bracing all the way to the top of the wall. That ends up creating some interference as you will see shortly.

Last one I'll do this morning -- need to get to work (which involves rotating my office chair 90 degrees). My next picture fast forwards to the finished walls.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520075938-441711016.jpeg)

Things to note here:

I used Crafts Mart Ivory color here for the walls. In person, it looks a little more depot buffy than you see here.

I renamed the building. The signs that came with it seemed to be of an awkward size and didn't seem to look good against the building (at least to my eye). So, I named the building after a railroading buddy of mine.

At the top you can see the foundation for this structure. Different style than Homer. This one is a stone foundation that is simulated by laser etched task board. We'll get a closer look at that later. There is also the etched floor for the receiving area.

If you look at the middle left you can see the wall with the overhead door we were just talking about. It is not real clear but perhaps you can see the second piece of 1/16 wood to the right of the door, inside the longer piece of corner trim.

Look at the second story door in the back wall in the middle right of the picture. That is actually a plastic door that was left over from the Homer build. It doesn't match the door in the instructions and does not match the size of the opening that is pre-cut. Rather than get all scratch buildy and trying to do something that fit, I just increased the height of the hole and used the spare door. I guess that transom looks a little funny for a door in this application but I can live with it. This door won't be seen after the structure is placed, anyway.

If you look at the small wall in the lower right, you will see a lot of room on the right side of the two windows where there is nothing but clapboard. The kit gives you one of those storm cellar door castings for this area. The only trick is that that casting will get glued onto this wall right here. However, when we are finished we will have this building sitting on the foundation that will raise it off the ground significantly. For that reason, the terrain will have to  rise on this side of the building for the math to work out. When I finally decide where to site the building, I'll see if this side will be visible. If so, I'll make the terrain work. If not, I'll save the casting for another time.

Finally, in the upper left you see a wall where the bracing is on the clapboard side. This is not a mistake. This wall is in the middle of the building and basically seals off the receiving area from that big hole you see in the flooring. Those braces help support the slanted roof in that area. In reality, it is impossible to get this right at this point in the build. I ended up putting some horizontal pieces to support the roof when that time came. Anyone building the kit should be sure to do a lot of test fitting here before committing to glue. Trimming bracing stock after it's in place is a bummer as I have come to know (on several occasions).

No more for now -- I'll try to post some more if I can get a chance over lunch. Will be finished for sure by tonight and then get going on Queen City Coal.

Hey Vince:

Just went through all 9 pages of this. Everything looks just great. Beautiful layout.

Karl

I've liked what you have done. 

Thanks for the kind words Bob and Karl.

Here's the interference I referred to earlier.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520075938-44172484.jpeg)

The walls 2 and 4 that we saw earlier are the left and right walls here. The bracing diagrams show that the wood continues to the top of the wall. But, you see the rafter comb here that also needs to be flush with the top of the wall and that causes interference. As you can see in the picture, the interference is solved pretty easily by notching each of the corners of the comb. Fortunately, there are no rafter tails on the ends. That would have made the task a little more work.

On the subject of rafters, you can also see in this picture slots in the top of the tall wall to which this extension is attached. Interestingly, there are no roof combs for this or any other location in the kit. Seemed odd to me that you would do combs for all of Homer and this one small addition but not the rest of the building. It's not a problem - there is plenty of 2x6 stock to do the work. Just odd.

Another fast forward - the walls are all assembled and the structure is attached to the foundation.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520075938-44173255.jpeg)

Here you get a good look at the foundation. In general, I don't think is looks very realistic. The stones are obviously flat and somewhat uniform. You can even see a few are starting to flake off on the bottom - I should have started by painting it with a glue wash. What you see is the result after using Rustoleum rattle can primer. I thought about painting individual stones but decided that this will be buried enough in dirt that the effort would not be worth it. I also considered covering it with chipboard or wood or styrene and going for a poured concrete look but then the foundation would be thicker and not very recessed with respect to the platform right above it. If I were to do this again, I think I would glue them on backwards so that the back (smooth side) was showing and the stones were glued to the inside frame. As it is, I do hit it with some chalk later to dull down the look. It will be good enough.

The other thing I notice is that double door on the second floor above the loading dock door. Not sure how things get in there without some kind of hoist above it (not included). Maybe somebody can help me on this one. Are there upper floor doors like this that don't have hoists? If so, what are they used for? If the hoist is required, I am guessing that I will scratch build something that will take the place of the vent that is currently there.

I'll finish this piece of the thread off tonight.

Cheers.

Looking really nice, Vince.

The colour scheme works very well.

When scratch-building, I'm always trimming off corners of things for bracing in the way!  Was just doing some of that last night when I decided a central gutter would be a good idea.  It might have been - but it was a lot of extra work!

Funny - I was looking at the picture above for about two minutes, trying to decide whether to give my opinion about the foundation or not.  I then scroll down and see you've given it for me!  One could fill the grout lines with spackle and then paint on rough cast.  Of course, turning the foundation inside out is a better remedy.  As you say, you can always make the undergrowth high around the structure, or plant a flower garden or...  the options are endless.

Cheers, Mark.

Very nice modeling Vince. I really like the freight door and hardware.

Thanks, Mark. Yeah, I had that thought, too. I could spackle in the laser cuts and turn it into a concrete foundation. I might still do that. But as you said -- other options, too.

Quote from: PRR Modeler on May 08, 2020, 04:24:20 PM
Very nice modeling Vince. I really like the freight door and hardware.

Thanks, Bob. I like that sliding door effect, also. Looks pretty decent considering it's just a square piece of wood.

Since I did this, and also the same sort of thing on Homer, I have noticed on the Sierra West site a few modelers that have similar doors that have small, rusty metal supports holding up the rail the door slides on. It's a little thing but I like the additional detail and realism. I am guessing one might do that with a very small wisp of a piece of paper or perhaps a skinny sliver of a toothpick. I think I will try that next time around. I doubt I will go back and do anything additional here.

Last time warp. Here's the final kit - at least the state it's in now. First the front:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520155517-441881512.jpeg)

I threw one of the detail castings in there just for fun. I overdid the dry brushing -- will need to go back and fix that. A few other things to note:

I threw some PanPastels at the foundation. Darker seems better. I still expect to cover it up.

Added some more weathering now.

Looking in the window above the sign I can see straight through the building. in the future, I am going to have to think more about view blocks.

The roof was a different experience. It is just chipboard with peel-and-stick battens. The chipboard is laser etched to help you place the battens. Once the battens were applied, I sprayed it directly with Rustoleum 2X gray primer. Then I went back and brush pained the battens with a wood color (Apple Barrel Barn Wood, I think). Then chalks. No tar paper. Nice. A really nicely engineered product. The roof vent and the chimney are resin castings. Had to cut in the angles to match the roof myself. Again, looking at that vent over the 2nd story freight door and thinking I need to put a hoist in. We'll see.

This would have been a nice model to illuminate. Could have filled the inside with a lot of detail castings. I may go back and do that later, depending on how close to the viewer this model ends up being. As it is, I think this will be in the background somewhat -- east side of the tracks. Maybe not, though. We'll see. Plus, if I'm going to do that, I will want to take more time to start thinking about routing a DC power bus around the layout to power lights and single-board computers so that I can starting writing some interesting software to do more elaborate animations. Not ready for that, yet.

More shortly....

Angled view, also from the front. Please ignore the tree. A light-hearted attempt to spice up the photo. Weak sauce.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520155517-441892240.jpeg)

This photo gives you a good look at the design Bar Mills uses for stairways. Lots of laser-cut parts to make the job much easier. Planking under the door into the extension is a thin, etched, peel-and-stick wood part. All very nice engineering. My only complaint is that the instructions call for 2x6 handrails. Now that I see them in a photo, they look too big to me. I think 1x4s would look better. Will try that next time around.

More shortly.

Great weathering on those doors , and the overall building is done great.

A more direct shot of the side wall. Full view of the small billboard sign. I actually spent a fair amount of time trying a lot of different sign designs. Wanted to have something fun here that would be an eye-catching detail. Problem was that the sign is actually pretty small. By the time you put in clip art of various implements they end up being pretty small and the lettering is small and then a little weathering obscures almost everything. The other problem is that I suck at graphic design. The mechanical design is nice, though. Those diagonal braces are single, laser-cut pieces. Look like Lexus logos. They also have tabs that fit into the sign backing. Again, nice engineering -- at least things I haven't seen before although I'm still relatively inexperienced.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520155517-441901046.jpeg)

More shortly.

Last picture - the back:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520155517-441912198.jpeg)

Not much to say. The treads on the stairs are peel-and-stick wood. Sounds like a good idea but it really doesn't hold the the stair assembly together well. I went back with the Canopy glue to solidify it. Also, Bar Mills has a really ingenious way to help assemble the steps. The stringers are attached to a long -- for lack of a better word -- sprue. Then they give you a piece of wood to glue between the two sprues (make sure everything is perpendicular). That holds the stringers in place while you glue down the steps. When it's all cured, you snip off the sprues and you're good to go. Very neat.

Same oversized handrails.

As I mentioned earlier, I used the pre-cut acetate windows here. The windows are wood - more work to assemble but I really like them. I think they look more realistic and because these particular windows didn't do the double-sash thing, it was pretty easy to install the "glass."

Last thing I'll mention. If you look under the rafter tails in this picture, you can see some breaks in the battens in the roof just under them. When I trimmed the tails, I used my sprue cutters and didn't pay attention to how far down I was holding them. Didn't even notice this until later when taking pictures. I once talked to a modeler who told me that it's not that great modelers don't make mistakes. They do make mistakes but know how to hide and fix them. I figure I am halfway there -- definitely crushing it on the make mistakes part.

That's it. My first Bar Mills kit. This building (Old Dominion) took a little more than a week.

In general, I enjoyed building the kit. Instructions are lean (compared to FSM or SRMW) but seemed plenty good enough. Lots of drawings and pictures to get you where you need to go. Some very clever engineering in a lot of place. Combined with ready-access to Art at Bar Mills when I got in trouble (missing sign sheet), it was a really good experience.

Homer Epilog. I forgot to show you the water tower.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-080520155518-441921708.jpeg)

Intended to accompany the Homer Paint Company, the water tower includes a Dutch Boy Paint sign. I am not sure I like using it here. It seems too big for that little building and too small for more general water tower service. At the moment, I have it sitting on top of one of the roofs for the Rugg Mfg build I did a while ago. Adds more character to that building. No need to decide now, though. Plenty of time to think about it.

As you saw a couple of pages ago these buildings won't go here (nor will the trees). Instead, this will be the Callahan Machining building.

I expect to get started on Queen City Coal this evening. I'll try to keep up this time on pics during the build.

Back soon.

Cheers.

Vince, thanks very much for sharing with us.
You did a terrific job on both buildings and they will sure look good on your IC CD...
Also appreciate you taking the time to give us your thoughts and comments on both builds!  Will come in handy when others go to build their versions of same ...
Great job !!
--Paul

Great build Vince.

Very well done.
For flat stone work finishing, do an image search for giraffe stone.  Typically, they are for the exterior wall finish, but what the hey.  Access to the upper set of doors?  Use a rough terrain fork lift truck.

Quote from: Oldguy on May 08, 2020, 08:56:40 PM
Very well done.
For flat stone work finishing, do an image search for giraffe stone.  Typically, they are for the exterior wall finish, but what the hey.  Access to the upper set of doors?  Use a rough terrain fork lift truck.

Thanks, Bob. I had never heard of giraffe stone but it looks like that's a Thing. I still think I want to cover them up -- not very attractive -- especially for a foundation.

Also, thanks for the note about tall fork lift. Now that you mention it, I remember seeing some around. I'll feel better now when I see those elevated loading doors on buildings

Paul and Curt -- thanks, guys.

I started on Queen City today. Before I started posting progress here it occurred to me that I probably should be putting it in the kit build forum. At the very least, people could find a specific build more easily (since it would be in the thread title). Then I could come back to this thread when it comes to integrating the completed kit into the layout.

I'll open up a new thread Sunday morning with the kickoff to that thread. If somebody thinks that keeping the thread here would be better, please let me know.

thx,
Vince

Hey vince:

Two beautiful buildings. Keep up the great work.

Karl

Great job Vince..... 8)  You're right about the handrails, the 2x6 is a bit overwhelming, a 4" top rail would look more to scale.

Hi guys,

Been a long while since I posted any modeling. After finishing Queen City, I have been pretty busy with work but did start another kit that will be pretty close to the south side of Queen City. This is Dexter's Dead End from FSM. My intent is to blend all of these together with the connecting terrain to integrate several kits into my first real scene on the railroad. One thing slowing me down is that my back drop, made from Masonite anchored into the concrete foundation of my house, has cracked at the joints. Interestingly, I had subbed out that work because I didn't like my chances of doing the hammer drill work of putting up the furring strips. I had started the work a couple of years back putting up the strips with Liquid Nails only  but it fell off a year later (covered earlier in this thread..or one of my threads somewhere). The interesting part of this is that the joints I did on that section of backdrop did NOT crack at the joints -- even after having fallen off the walls. But, every one of these new joints did. I don't regret getting a pro to do the work -- I never would have succeeded putting up the strips, not to mention holding up the Masonite by myself to fasten it in, but I am going to have to retape and mud all the joints. I'll post some pictures of this shortly.

So, the result of this is that these cracks now stop me from putting the first Monee scenery up because it will make later fixing of the cracks impossible. And, you know how it is when there's a job that you really, really, hate to do ... takes a long time to get to it. At least for me it does.

In the meantime, I'll post some pictures of Dexter's as I am building it. Not a build thread, but maybe a few interesting notes along the way.

I look forward to those posts, Vince. Dexter's is a great kit -- and the combination sounds exciting.

OK, here are a few Dexter pics. A couple of notes. This is my first Gatorboard experience. Love it so far. Super flat/straight and super strong and only 1/2" thick. Wish I would have considered using that from my backdrop material instead of Masonite. More dimensionally stable - would have avoided the cracking. Anyway.....

This is the first FSM kit I have built in several years. More recently, I have been building Bar Mills kits that have some nice conveniences built in for things like wood plank platforms. I had forgotten how detailed George's instructions are. Also, how difficult some of the details like hand railings for stair cases can be when you build them from strip wood instead of a single laser-cut piece of wood. Definitely a more intricate look when it's complete, tho.

The kit has four buildings. Two of them are attached - the Jacob Tire 'complex." That's what I am showing here. Not yet complete but pretty far into it. I'll try to post a little more regularly. Here are three quick pics:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-291220182757-472082498.jpeg)

I'll mention two things. First, I made a very slight modification to the model here where that white shingled shed attaches so the board and batten warehouse. The kit calls for the corrugated roofing to be "flush" with the tar paper roofing where it attaches to the main building. Then, the 1/87th scale "leaks" would be prevented by putting in some pitch where the two roof surfaces mate. That didn't make sense to me. Seemed to me that if I were adding a shed to the building I would want the roof of the main building to overhang the roof of the shed so that the water would just run off. So, I trimmed a skosh off the bottom of the shed so that it would nestle just under the main roof. You can see that clearly in picture 1.

Second, I tried a new technique for board and batten building. In particular, I didn't use any tar paper. I just spray painted the chipboard with Rustoleum dark gray primer and glued the battens down on top of that directly. Then, I scrubbed in some chalks after the battens were down. The net effect seems just as good as when I take the effort to do tar paper. maybe that's just because I do a lousy job with regular tar paper.

Oh yeah -- one more thing. I had forgotten about a few other characteristics of FSM kits - zillions of one-at-a-time rafter tails and Campbell shingles. I especially hate the Campbell shingles. For me, it's really difficult to keep them straight. They always want to bend away from the cuts -- kinda like those hanging Happy Birthday things you can get and hang up in your house. As you look at the kits, you can see I didn't do a great job on these. Will have to be more careful and also be more willing to go into my stash of other shingles and forego the Campbell products. So, this is what my personal hell would be:

For all eternity, stuck in a room with an infinite number of craftsman kits but only able to do:
  1. wall bracing
  2. rafter tails
  3. Campbell shingling - with no guide lines.

While we're at it, let's throw in an endless loop of Kenny G music.

*shudder*

OK, sorry. Said this was not going to be a build thread. Back to a couple pics.


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-291220182759-472231502.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-291220182800-472241803.jpeg)

You can see I have a couple of mock ups for the other two buildings. I just started the garage building today (the one-story buliding next to the Jacob's complex). That's a stucco building and I'm trying something new there, too. I'll get a few pics up so you can see how it's going.

More in a while.

Vince,


Great to see you back and posting.  This looks great.  Dexter's is one of my favorites because it offers so much variety in materials, methods, and types of structures. I love the roofing, coloring and weathering is spot on for both the asphalt and the metal. 


The shed roof would have bothered me, too.  I envy the artistic abilities of kit manufacturers to design and supply such attractive structures.  Still, sometimes I think common construction practices escape them.


I read a tip a long time ago on applying Campbell shingles.  Cut them into strips longer than the roof, leaving enough to grab both ends with fingers and / or tweezers.  The extra length allows you to pull on them when you apply them to the roof.  First, straighten each length as much as possible by pulling on them with your fingers.  Then apply a narrow bead of white glue to the uncut portion.  Stretch them into place following the lines on the roof by pulling on the ends.  (I always add lines to any roof card that lacks them.)  Next, working quickly, I use a straight edge along both bottom and top edges of the row I am gluing down.  I use an Xacto knife to pull any out of line places into better alignment using the straight edge for a guide.  I only shingle a half dozen rows at a time, then set it aside for the glue to dry thoroughly.  I have found trying to do too many rows at once causes some of the previous rows to move out of their original alignment.  HTH

Your building looks great. Sorry to hear about the backdrop problems.

Looking really good, Vince.

To follow on with what Jerry said re Campbell shingles - I cover the cardboard with double sided tape, but also add a bead of canopy glue to the top of the row of shingles below before adding the row above.  In this way the double sided tape gives an easy fixing point to keep the row of shingles lined up with the pencil markings, and the glue gives some extra fixing between the paper shingles.  Using this technique I can easily do the entire roof or wall in one go.  When doing walls I shingle straight across window and door openings and cut them out when the glue has cured from the inside of the wall using a sharp chisel blade.

I like your roof adjustment.  Far more prototypical.  Still, I guess that's modelers license.

Cheers, Mark.

Looks great so far.  As to backdrops, would the gatorfoam bend well enough to a small radius for curved backdrops? 


Jeff

Great post, Vince. Has fun reading that and excellent work!

Quote from: jerryrbeach on December 29, 2020, 08:09:07 PM
Vince,


Great to see you back and posting.  This looks great.  Dexter's is one of my favorites because it offers so much variety in materials, methods, and types of structures. I love the roofing, coloring and weathering is spot on for both the asphalt and the metal. 


The shed roof would have bothered me, too.  I envy the artistic abilities of kit manufacturers to design and supply such attractive structures.  Still, sometimes I think common construction practices escape them.


I read a tip a long time ago on applying Campbell shingles.  Cut them into strips longer than the roof, leaving enough to grab both ends with fingers and / or tweezers.  The extra length allows you to pull on them when you apply them to the roof.  First, straighten each length as much as possible by pulling on them with your fingers.  Then apply a narrow bead of white glue to the uncut portion.  Stretch them into place following the lines on the roof by pulling on the ends.  (I always add lines to any roof card that lacks them.)  Next, working quickly, I use a straight edge along both bottom and top edges of the row I am gluing down.  I use an Xacto knife to pull any out of line places into better alignment using the straight edge for a guide.  I only shingle a half dozen rows at a time, then set it aside for the glue to dry thoroughly.  I have found trying to do too many rows at once causes some of the previous rows to move out of their original alignment.  HTH

Thanks, Jerry. The straight edge is a great idea. I did do most of what you suggested on the shed (longer strips, glue on the uncut portion, shingling over the windows, doing a few rows at a time to let them dry - and also keep my temper in check). So, I think that shed ended up looking a little better than the front of the main building. There are still plenty of shingled surfaces left in the kit. I'll try the straight edge next time and will report back.

Quote from: PRR Modeler on December 29, 2020, 08:21:39 PM
Your building looks great. Sorry to hear about the backdrop problems.

Thanks, Curt. In the end, I'm sure I'll appreciate the extra "accomplishment" I did. In the beginning, tho, it just helps make me lazy (which I was already crushing it on).

Mark -- I completely forgot about 3M transfer tape. Funny, actually, as I routinely use it for other shingling using non-Campbell shingles. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to try it here. It isn't just the adhesive that comes on the Campbell shingles -- I have long since stopped relying on that. But the "swimming around" of the shingles on the wet glue combined with their propensity to bend is what generally caused me the problems. Transfer tape will fix that. Gonna give it a try. Two good methods I got from you guys now -- straight edge on soupy glue or transfer tape. Thanks!

Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on December 29, 2020, 09:19:33 PM
Looks great so far.  As to backdrops, would the gatorfoam bend well enough to a small radius for curved backdrops? 


Jeff

Hi Jeff -- no way the 1/2" stuff would bend. It is super stiff. You would have to kerf it. But, Gatorfoam also has a 3/16" product as well. That is what I would use if I were going to try it as a backdrop. I suspect that would also not bend well, though. Again, kerfing might save the day. One other consideration -- Gatorfoam is very expensive. I think my 4x8 sheets of Masonite were around 10 bucks at HD. 4x8 sheets of 3/16" Gatorfoam is around 100 bucks.

Thanks, Craig - I appreciate the support.

Vince,
Nice progress photos of that FSM classic. Where did you find the Gatorboard in NW Illinois ?
Tommy

Quote from: tom.boyd.125 on December 30, 2020, 11:47:09 AM
Vince,
Nice progress photos of that FSM classic. Where did you find the Gatorboard in NW Illinois ?
Tommy

Hi Tom. I ordered it directly from Dave Myers (the Gator Guy) in Vermont. He cuts up 4x8 sheets to your liking at no charge. Shipping is crazy expensive, of course, but with so many accolades about the product I wanted to try it. Here's Dave's site:

https://gatorfoam.net/

Here are the garage walls after painting.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-301220144006-472281432.jpeg)

Curious note: I should have laid these out better, but the wall in the upper right corner is the front wall. Lower left is the back wall. Left wall to the upper left, right wall to the lower right. After doing the bracing, I discovered that the left and right walls are not the same width. Front and rear walls are the same but the right wall is just a little wider -- about 1/16" I would say -- than the left wall. I can't find anything in the directions regarding why that is. Had I noticed it sooner, I would have trimmed it to the same size. As it is, I will have a building that will be trapezoidal. I'm sure it won't be noticeable but it's a bit odd.

These are stucco walls but you can't see the stucco very well here....hang on....

Here is a view with the light better situated to show you the stucco effect. The stucco is made using a rattle can of Krylon fine texture paint. For color, I'm using ArtMinds Cocoon chalk paint. Many thanks to Jason Jensen for pointing both of these products out in his many very helpful videos on YouTube.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-301220144006-472291983.jpeg)

More shortly

Stucco looks great Vince!  It looks like you're having a lot of fun with that FSM kit.  ;D

Here's a shot of the products.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-301220144006-47230109.jpeg)

They were not so easy for me to find locally (I tried to give business to local stores whenever I can). FWIW, I found the Krylon texture paint at Michael's and the chalk paint at Home Depot.

The Cocoon chalk paint is now my goto paint for aged concrete.

And, finally, here's a pic of two walls, one with inkahol, one without. I used a very light wash and decided I wanted a slightly heavier effect. So, after these pics were taken, I added a second coat.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-301220144006-47231267.jpeg)

In case you're wondering why I didn't assemble the building first and then do the stucco, it's because this building still has the traditional corner pieces that you have with clapboard walls. When I have other buildings that are all stucco (maybe like the Queen City Coal main office building) I will build the shell first and then apply the texture.

Right now, the walls have the windows installed with the "glue glazing" drying. Once that is complete I'll post an update.

Thanks, Bob. Yes -- FSM builds are fun and somewhat nostalgic for me. The J Barongould Tannery was my first ever wood kit (some 30-ish years ago?) and got me started on the whole crafstman kit addiction.

Vince,

Great to see you back. Happy New Year.

The stucco looks fantastic and thanks for mentioning the Krylon Stone Fine Paint. I'll definitely be getting that product. Dexter's is a FSM kit I have a spot for on the layout so this is a thread I'll bookmark.

The masonite is the way to go, it curves to a very sharp radius.

Oh, Dexter's is wonderful and you've done a fantastic build, it looks just great.

Tom  ;D

Looking great, Vince.

That stucco is very nice and to scale.  We have Krylon brand here in New Zealand so should hopefully be able to track that down.  Don't know about Artminds - NEVER seen that brand before.  Not too worried though, as concrete is a different colour the world over, as it is generally sourced locally - ours has a lot less yellow in it.

Cheers, Mark.

I second that Stone Effect rattle can! I switched to Rust-O-Leum though as I felt the Krylon stuff was a little thin/watery

Excellent look and effect.

Vince,


Last night I was watching an NMRA virtual clinic on YouTube.  Jack Ellis of Bar Mills was discussing layout backdrops and in answer to a question about using Masonite offered some information I believe might apply to your backdrop problems.  If you skip to 36:50 he talks about types of Masonite and filling and sanding joints.   I'd suggest watching the entire video, lots of tips on painting backdrops, clouds, blending scenery to the backdrop, etc.  There's also some thoughts on using shallow relief buildings, etc. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGch25v4KNg&t=2309s

Well, it has certainly been a while. I have slowly been plodding along on this kit but have spent a lot of time working and just didn't have the energy to post updates to this thread. Hoping to do a little better now.

Here is the state of the Dexter's Dead End diorama. I have started adding some of the details but have a bit more work to do. Rather than post a lot of pictures now and then bore you with repostings of things that have only minor differences, I'll do a few now and then post more close-ups as I finish more work. This has actually been a challenging kit for me - I have a lot of comments to add but will save that for when I post more detailed shots.

First, here's an overall view from the front:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-050721235409-497131781.jpeg)

Here's a somewhat closer look at some detail relating to Jacob Tire:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-050721235409-49716550.jpeg)

And finally here is the current state of the other two buildings:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-050721235409-497171360.jpeg)

Sorry to be so brief. I'll add a lot more pictures and more thoughts in the next few days as I hope to wrap this up and begin working on placing a number of dioramas on the layout.

Talk to you soon.

Vince,

Fantastic job on the build. It look great and the weathering matches the old look of the building.

Tom  ;D

Hey Vince:

Wow!!!!! Just gorgeous.

Karl

Excellent work, Vince! Especially on that Painter's store.

Vince,
Good to see you have been busy at the work bench this year.
The FSM build looks great. Nice coloring and weathering.
Tommy

That's fantastic work Vince...it really holds up to the closeup photography. Great colors, textures, weathering, ground cover...All good!


John

Beautiful work on the diorama. 


Jeff

Looks great Vince..... 8)

The more I look at this build, the more impressive and well-executed it is...this could be the final exam for the "Sellios Master Modeler Class". I think every type of roofing, every type of siding, and every type of weathering is present and all look great together. Excellent.


My favorite here (of many) might be the heavily weathered shingled siding and the simple peeled paint on the fence. Great job.


John

Vince excellent work on this diorama!!


Jerry

My apologies to all for taking so long to get back to this. Thanks so much to Tom L, Karl, Craig, Tommy B, John, Jeff, GP, and Jerry for the nice comments. I'll post some pics now along with a few comments and lessons learned from building this kit.

Vince

First, let me say that I am finding it more and more difficult to call a diorama "done" each time I build a new one. At least part of it is because I keep seeing all sorts of fantastic modeling -- especially here but also on YouTube (Jason Jensen, for example) and want to incorporate each technique into everything I do. I love looking at the results and want to have it all in my basement as well. Great goal but REALLY unrealistic and time-consuming. Pulling me in the other direction are the words from Jerry Beach over a year ago in this forum where he said that he was a "...layout modeler, not a contest modeler." So, I'm trying to find the right balance -- modeling that is fun to look at but not forgetting about the fact that there are some trains in the room as well. If I ever want to be finished -- or at least far enough along to warrant inviting people over to see something interesting -- I need to be a little more rational.

I would be interested in hearing thoughts from others who have wrestled with this themselves.

Of course, it would help...a lot...to be retired. More on that later.

OK. Here is a frontal view of the "finished" dio. Some comments to follow:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821151931-499222425.jpeg)

Some notes in no particular order:

• 
  This is the first diorama I built on top of Gatorboard. I can't say enough about how much I like this stuff. It is very strong and lightweight and the dimensional stability is excellent. I started this construction in January (I think) and it's now August. I painted it, glued buildings down on it, and soaked it with watery glue for ground cover multiple times. No warping despite great humidity changes across seasons. The diorama is about 20" wide and I can hold it on one end without it bending. And, all of this with 1/2" thick material. It's expensive -- a little over a hundred bucks for a 4x8 sheet and the shipping is outrageous -- but I don't want to use anything else now. Really good stuff.
  
• 
  This was a difficult kit for me. Especially challenging were the Campbell's shingles used as siding. Examples include the top part of the building in the middle as well as the shed abutting the loading dock on the right. I just have a difficult time getting them straight. Once I get them wet with glue (I don't count on the adhesive that comes on the shingles), they want to "smile" and bend away from the kerfs -- like those "Happy Birthday" signs people hang up. Always a struggle for me to get them to lie flat. In contrast, I tried some other shingles for the roof of the lower story for the building to the far left. More on that in a little while.
  
• 
  I used Berkshire Junction stretchy string for the power lines. George gives you brown thread for this purpose with the kit but the color pictures he supplies with the kit use that thread and it look so kinky that I found it to be very unrealistic. On the plus side you get the "sag" of real wires but the sag isn't natural. Seemed better to me to have a smooth straight line instead. By the way, this stuff is super stretchy. You can get it to look taut and still have it give very little resistance when you depress it with a finger. Seems like it may save snapping off a telephone pole or two somewhere along the line in the future when I'm careless.
  
• 
  George gives you nice templates for the scratch-built picket fence and the old-fashioned ladders. I like the look so I scanned the cards and I am keeping a folder on my computer with all of these goodies so that I can reuse the same elements in the future on other kits if I want. I am hoping that keeping things in a single folder will make sure I can find things in the future. I can't count the number of times I have known I have something "somewhere" that is lost in the recesses of the basement. Very frustrating.
  
• 
  I did not scenic all the way to the end of the diorama. Once I install this on the layout I will blend it in with whatever is adjacent.
  
• 
  The concrete road is ArtMinds Cocoon paint that I mentioned earlier painted directly on top of the Gatorfoam. Expansion cracks scribed directly into the foam (which has a paper-like covering) using a T-pin. Everything else done with chalks. Cracks done with a sharp #2 pencil. Everything looks a little too uniform to me. But, I'm committed to moving on to some new things so I will try not to obsess over it. George gives you a manhole cover with the kit. Love the detail.
  
• 
  That VW Beetle is a little shiny for my taste. I would like to lightly weather it and tone it down. I have never done anything like that before, tho. Maybe hand-paint some matte finish on the non-window surfaces? I would appreciate if anyone has a link to some good tips for vehicle weathering.
  
• 
  As I'm looking at the picture now, I am realizing that I didn't put more pigeons on the roof. I'll add some before doing the final installation of the diorama. (...don't obsess....don't obsess...)
  

More shortly.

The Beetle does look like it's new.  Hand brushing a matte finish sounds to me like the best idea to tone it down.  OR, do a figure with a bucket and sponge cleaning the Beetle :-)


Everything looks great!  The one thought that occurs to me would be a little bit of (brown) grass/weeds growing in the joints of the concrete. 


dave

Dave - yes! weeds in the cracks and expansion joints. Will do. (so much for "done" eh?)

Thanks.

I'll just post a few views now with a some comments along the way. Here is a shot from a drone :) on the north end of town:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821151932-499232116.jpeg)

The power pole in the foreground looks like it's in the middle of the road but that won't be the case. This will be eventually be unpaved area that extends down to the tracks. We're at the edge of the Monee Cut here. That will be a little easier to see in some later pics.

You can also see the roof of the covered stairway here. I did some nail holes in the tar paper for the first time. I again used a T-pin to puncture the paper. They're oversized but I do like the effect. This also gives you a better look at the shed that does not use Campbell shingles. More on that shortly....

Here's a close-up view of the shed roof for Walker's Paint:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821152617.jpeg)

These shingles are from South River Model Works. Funny how you don't see things in person as easily. Looking at the pic now I can see the shingles don't quite overlap enough.

The shingles are laser-cut brown paper. Weathering done with earth tone colored pencils and markers while the shingles are still on the sheet. Then, install them and do the usual prying, chalking, and dry brushing. Much easier to install (for me) as they don't warp "up" when wet.

Another shot of Walker's from the north - this time a little lower:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821151932-49924626.jpeg)

Here again I used Campbell shingles on the covered stairway. Junk under the stairs includes some of George's cardboard boxes. Nice little detail but tough little buggers to build. I am finally doing a better job of keeping leftover wood pieces. They all make good details that you can put about anywhere.

Quick story about the car you see in the shed. I went to my local hobby shop and asked my friend if he had any really super-cheap vehicles I could buy. I was going to "rust the crap out of them" and didn't want to pay much. Coincidentally, a lady had come into the store earlier that day and brought in some old stuff she was trying to get appraised. The stuff was not worth anything -- dollar store sorts of things -- so she just gave it to my friend (the store owner) and he tossed them in the trash. When I showed up later that day it triggered this discussion and we went dumpster diving to get the junk. This car is from that "collection" and he gave the bag to me. The car's detail is terrible and it is out of scale -- oversized -- but I thought it would be good enough. Given its position in the background, I think it works OK.

I went old school here with the foliage....George's old technique of dyed twine instead of static grass. It will get a bit more attention when I install the diorama onto the layout. I expect to put a tree here when I install it.

Here's a look behind the small fence on the north end of Jacob Tire:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821151932-4992599.jpeg)

Another view:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821151933-499261631.jpeg)

This brings up a question for me. I have two power poles here. Each has a service transformer. The poles have the high voltage lines running from one to the other and the service transformer taps those to bring them to the levels the business needs for its electrical needs. George's diagram calls for tying not only the high voltage lines together (the "tees" on top of the pole) but also tying the outputs of the transformers together. In other words, three more lines connecting those blocks on the sides of the poles together. I'm a small signal guy (audio, digital circuits) not a power grid guy so I don't know much about this but in general outputs don't get tied together. Does anyone know if that's a real thing and why you would do that? I did not do it on the model because it seemed incorrect. I thought it might just be the case that George was going for a more "busy" look (which this would certainly do) but I don't really know what would be electrically correct. Any grid engineers out there? Would love to learning something here.

Some may notice that I also did not run a set of wires to the Jacob Tire garage (small stucco building). Again, I didn't want more clutter in case I wanted to do any more work on the diorama.

Here's a close-up of the Jacob Tire annex:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821152115-499291266.jpeg)

I wanted to have some gravel in the scene and tried some Woodland Scenics ballast. I think the stones look a little big. Will try some sand next next time around

Here's a view from the south end:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821152115-499302071.jpeg)

A discovered a new thing here (for me). In George's pictures I saw that he dry-brushed the fire hydrant with silver rather than white. Creates a nice effect for metal items. I did the same thing here for the green canister for gas. Small thing but seems to make a nice difference.

Here are a couple of shots from the back. This diorama will be placed directly against the backdrop so there's no detail here:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821152115-499311682.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821152437-49932561.jpeg)

Vince,

You did a wonderful job with this diorama!!!!!!  It will look great on your layout.

Seth P.
Minnesota

Temporary shift of topics - my backdrop. I mentioned a while ago that I had problems with my backdrop cracking. About a year and a half ago I brought in a contractor to anchor some furring strips to my basement walls and attach Masonite panels (22" x 8') to those furring strips. I also had him tape and mud the joints between 8' panels. Within six months, all of the joints had cracked. Here's an example that just happens to be behind where the Dexter's diorama will be located:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821192245.jpeg)

You can see from the crack that the he used nylon tape that apparently did not stick to the Masonite. He also used small staples to attach the hardboard to the furring strips. In some cases, the staples loosened and the hardboard came off of the furring strip. In general, I think this is not surprising as I saw that as seasons changed there would be some swelling and contracting as humidity changed. It's not enough to make the backdrop look bad but it is noticeable.

So, a few weeks ago I reworked all of the taped joints. I ripped out the old taped joints (which was disappointingly easy). I then countersunk wood screws to fasten the hardboard to the furring strips. Finally, I retaped the joint using the same paper tape I had used a few years ago when I did some other section of the backdrop. BTW, those joints have not yet failed even though the backdrop fell off the wall! (I had used Liquid Nails only -- no anchors....that's why I called a contractor to begin with.)

I'm mentioning this here in case this experience helps other out that are considering the use of Masonite for their backdrop.

Here's the diorama sitting roughly where it will be finally located. Note the grade that goes down to the tracks - the Monee Cut. The patched backdrop is right behind the foam where it stops on the left. In fact, you can see that I didn't bother sanding the mud all the way down where the backdrop meets the pink foam. That will be hidden by horizon scenery.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821152437-49933306.jpeg)

Next up I will be air brushing in some clouds in this. area. Then I will need to overthink how I want to deal with the horizon.....nondescript painting? Photorealistic print? Thinking photo prints at the moment but we'll see. Finally, I need to double check the clearance between the double tracks and the foam - in particular the far (east) track. I think I probably need to take another 1/2" or so off so that I can be sure the terrain with foliage does not interfere with the trains.

One final pic - a closeup of the main Jacob Tire complex. This shows a little more detail of the power lines and the street side.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-020821152438-499351038.jpeg)

Quote from: pbltrains on August 02, 2021, 07:37:32 PM
Vince,

You did a wonderful job with this diorama!!!!!!  It will look great on your layout.

Seth P.
Minnesota

Seth, thank you! I'm still thinking about the conversations we had a couple of years ago -- hopefully getting very close to that "first square foot" of scenery.

Vince

Your diorama looks fantastic, Vince!

I really enjoyed looking through your pictures.

You mentioned having trouble using Campbells shingles (as others have done in the past).  I find using a combination of double sided tape and canopy glue makes the job easy.  I have copied my step by step instructions from my 2020 cannery and wharf challenge.  Hope this helps.

The shingle wall was quite easy to do, so give it a try.  Here is a quick rundown of my method.  The shingles were Campbells.

* Cut your window and door openings in wall and mark the wall with horizontal lines as a guide for attaching the shingles.
* Cover wall in double sided tape.
* Remove the bottom piece of tape backing and attach the first row of shingles.
* Add a bead of canopy glue to the top of the shingles installed.
* Add the second row of shingles.  Press down every inch onto the double sided tape to fix and line up with your pencil marking.  Press the bottom of the second row of shingles onto the bead of glue.  Remove any ooze. (the aim is to get no ooze so you want a fairly thin bead of glue).
* Continue, covering any openings with shingles.  The wastage is minimal, and I find there is no damage during the painting process.
* When dry, paint, using a soft brush, with a brownish black colour, slightly diluted.  You want to completely cover the shingles.  Angle the brush upwards to get paint under the shingles, so that no bare colour shows through.
* When dry, follow up with a series of dry brushing with paynes grey, light browns and tans.  Dry brush from the top down.  If you go too far, reverse with brownish black.
* When dry, remove shingles from the openings by placing the wall upside down on a cutting mat and using a chisel blade to cut the shingles and double sided tape.  I found this better than a knife for getting a clean cut without damaging any tiny slithers of shingles that resulted.
* Install windows and doors.

Note: the painting method is as described on Troels Kirks DVD.

Cheers, Mark.

Grand scene Vince..... 8)

Vince,


Fantastic looking diorama and very well done. Just beautifully finished and detailed.


Tom  ;D  

Just awesome. Another fantastic FSM build, Vince. Well done!

Vince,
You pulled it off...excellent work on this FSM gem !
It's time to celebrate now on your diorama and structure modeling and then move on to your next project.
Think that when you retire soon, you will really have a lot more time to enjoy the hobby and share your projects with the forum.
Tommy

Normally I think those structures with overhanging 2nd stories look bogus.  But in this case the overhang actually makes sense and doesn't look phony.  Nice work working the building in its location!!

dave

Nice job Vince - looks great from every angle - have to agree with Mark - the Campbell shingles used to drive me towards basket weaving as a  hobby (or maybe toll painting) but since I started using the double sided tape it has taken a lot of drama out of this task. I think the stucco turned out awesome on the Jacobs Tire building. As far as the elec. distribution question - transformers are usually sized by what a customer or block of customers would require - tying one transformer drop to another would defeat the purpose of load distribution. By all means tie one pole line to the other but leave it at that. Great work again...

Doug

Gonna throw this out there... I ADORE Campbell's shingles!

Then again, I would only ever use them with 3M transfer tape, too.

Hye Vince:

Very cool. Love the colors and weathering.

Karl

Hi all - back to [modeling] work, I hope. So, this is my second week of retirement. I would have expected zillions of free hours to work on the railroad but so far, not so much. (I sense some chuckling going on out there.) Anyway, I have done some basement cleaning -- more to do but good progress in organizing a good chunk of my supplies and tools. We'll see how that goes.

Thanks to Mark, Greg, Tom L, Craig, Tom B, Doug, Dave, and Karl for your unwavering support and kind words.

More to follow in a few minutes.

Quote from: Mark Dalrymple on August 02, 2021, 11:25:52 PM
Your diorama looks fantastic, Vince!

I really enjoyed looking through your pictures.

You mentioned having trouble using Campbells shingles (as others have done in the past).  I find using a combination of double sided tape and canopy glue makes the job easy.  I have copied my step by step instructions from my 2020 cannery and wharf challenge.  Hope this helps.

The shingle wall was quite easy to do, so give it a try.  Here is a quick rundown of my method.  The shingles were Campbells.

* Cut your window and door openings in wall and mark the wall with horizontal lines as a guide for attaching the shingles.
* Cover wall in double sided tape.
* Remove the bottom piece of tape backing and attach the first row of shingles.
* Add a bead of canopy glue to the top of the shingles installed.
* Add the second row of shingles.  Press down every inch onto the double sided tape to fix and line up with your pencil marking.  Press the bottom of the second row of shingles onto the bead of glue.  Remove any ooze. (the aim is to get no ooze so you want a fairly thin bead of glue).
* Continue, covering any openings with shingles.  The wastage is minimal, and I find there is no damage during the painting process.
* When dry, paint, using a soft brush, with a brownish black colour, slightly diluted.  You want to completely cover the shingles.  Angle the brush upwards to get paint under the shingles, so that no bare colour shows through.
* When dry, follow up with a series of dry brushing with paynes grey, light browns and tans.  Dry brush from the top down.  If you go too far, reverse with brownish black.
* When dry, remove shingles from the openings by placing the wall upside down on a cutting mat and using a chisel blade to cut the shingles and double sided tape.  I found this better than a knife for getting a clean cut without damaging any tiny slithers of shingles that resulted.
* Install windows and doors.

Note: the painting method is as described on Troels Kirks DVD.

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks for the tips, Mark. I'll give it a try. The transfer tape is a great idea -- not sure why I didn't think of that already since that's what I use when using other shingles or other roofing materials (rolled tar, e.g.). Should be a lot more stable that the process I was using and help prevent the "smile" shape that I always seem to fight.

Quote from: tom.boyd.125 on August 03, 2021, 11:47:09 AM
Vince,
You pulled it off...excellent work on this FSM gem !
It's time to celebrate now on your diorama and structure modeling and then move on to your next project.
Think that when you retire soon, you will really have a lot more time to enjoy the hobby and share your projects with the forum.
Tommy

Thanks, Tom. A lot more time, indeed! I am sure that at least part of this is that, when working a job, I paid more attention to "getting some modeling time in" because time was a very precious commodity. I'm finding that retired days zip by as quickly as working days did. Need to find my new discipline. Clearly, from the results in this forum, everybody else has already figure out how to do that  :)

Quote from: NKP768 on August 03, 2021, 04:39:28 PM
Nice job Vince - looks great from every angle - have to agree with Mark - the Campbell shingles used to drive me towards basket weaving as a  hobby (or maybe toll painting) but since I started using the double sided tape it has taken a lot of drama out of this task. I think the stucco turned out awesome on the Jacobs Tire building. As far as the elec. distribution question - transformers are usually sized by what a customer or block of customers would require - tying one transformer drop to another would defeat the purpose of load distribution. By all means tie one pole line to the other but leave it at that. Great work again...

Doug

Doug, thanks for the comments and especially the G2 on the power line configuration. Tying the transformer secondaries together definitely looked fishy. But, all my electrical design experience is low-voltage audio and digital DC circuits and power supplies (plus, I'm primarily a software guy). Commercial power distribution is completely foreign to me. I drove around several neighborhoods and didn't see any comparable examples. Still, I didn't want to make assumptions about something I don't know much about.

Quote from: Keep it Rusty on August 03, 2021, 06:02:00 PM
Gonna throw this out there... I ADORE Campbell's shingles!

Then again, I would only ever use them with 3M transfer tape, too.

Thanks, Craig - I like them too. I think they are especially good for shingling walls. My application technique just sucks. Xfer tape will hopefully do the trick.

OK, back to starting to scenic Monee. I have a position on the north end of town where a depot will go. Here is the site:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921140935-505211546.jpeg)

The depot will be placed on the east side, between the tracks and the backdrop. It will be located roughly at or to the right of the insulating rail joiners you see there. I have broken the electrical blocks there so as to facilitate occupancy detection that will support automated running later. Up until now, i have been assuming that I would use a depot that I built a long time ago. It's the old Fallburgh Station from Sequoia models:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921141120-505312278.jpeg)

As I look at its placement now, it occurs to me that the large, flat platform is not a good fit for the location. I will need to do something unusual with the topography such as a rock face or retaining wall to go from the higher area on the right (where you see just a small slice of the Dexter's diorama I just built) and track level.

Instead, I thought I would take a run at integrating another old kit I have - the Tennessee Pass Depot from Buliders In Scale. The available pictures for that kit show that it is nestled into a hill as you go from front to back. Here is a proto photo that I found on the internet:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921150228-50541787.jpeg)

So, over the next several posts, I will do a build thread of this kit.

More to follow.

To kick it off, here's the kit box:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921140936-5052215.jpeg)

Wish I could remember how long ago I bought this....maybe 30 years?

The picture on the box is probably the best available with the kit. There are some additional pics in the manual as well, but they are no bigger.

Note that the front wall is all wood. In the picture of the actual depot I included above, the first floor is all brick. In the kit you are given the option to build it either way.

Here is a color pic of the finished model that I found on fsmkits.com. No idea where that came from -- it is not part of the kit:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921140936-505231203.jpeg)

More shortly....

Opening up the box:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921140936-505241435.jpeg)

Nice collection of parts. Many precut strip wood pieces, three brick wall pieces, a snap-shut plastic container with a nice collection of metal details, two 1:1 scale blueprint sheets, printed roof sheet, manual, and a roll of Campbell shingles.

Interesting wrinkle - the depot is a two-story building. BIS gives you scribed sheet stock for both floors. They also apparently give you the original floor plan for those that want to do detailed interiors. I know I want to do some of that in my modeling - not sure if this is the time to start.

More shortly

This is a new experience for me. I now realize how spoiled I have gotten by building modern kits that have all laser-cut pieces and bracing diagrams. For this kit, the instructions are pretty lean and are all textual. Very little in the way of assembly diagrams. You identify pieces by using a ruler and by laying pieces on the blueprint looking for matches in pieces that sometimes differ only slightly. See below:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921140936-50525996.jpeg)

I believe this is the first kit where the window and door sections are just kerfs that need to be finished by hand. Also, there is some sheet stock that is dimensionally correct in one dimension but needs to be cut on the other dimension. Example are the strips of scribed wood that are A5 and A6 in the picture.

I'm not intending to complain - I am looking forward to the skill stretch. Yes, I know the scratch builders out there are getting a good chuckle.

More shortly.

Here an interim working pic:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921141056-50527634.jpeg)

Nothing too interesting - a couple of windows cut out. Three more yet to be cut. On the left I have a piece of scrap basswood to test some color combinations. I'm going to treat the bare wood with Hunterline Driftwood and then dry brush on some cheap acrylic Ivory paint over that to represent the Depot Buff that the kit instructions request. Depending on how that looks, I might hit the acrylic with another light inkahol wash. I did that on the sample you see here. Have to be careful, though. The acrylics dissolve quickly in the alcohol and then the finish gets to be a little harder to control. Perhaps I could use an oil-based was or a water-based wash and avoid the problem. We'll see what it looks like when I get there.

I also painted a few windows with different shades of brown. Not sure which one I like best, yet.

One issue I am experiencing here is how/when to finish the walls. Usually, it is pretty straightforward to brace all of the walls with the 1/8" stock and then start throwing fluids at it knowing that usually the walls will not warp. Here, because I am not quite sure how the walls go together, I do not yet have a vision for how to brace them so I am afraid of creating interference once assembly starts. As I get a little further into the assembly I am hoping I will be able to better see what is going on.

As a backup, the instructions have you do the FSM old-school method of applying the washes and then letting the wall sit under a heavy book or other weight overnight until it dries. I do remember doing that for the FSM Barongould Tannery many years ago and it worked but I would prefer to proctively brace things instead, if possible. In the end, I assume it will be some combination of bracing, heavy books, and applying wash to both sides of walls to make it work.

Another interim working pic - one of the brick side walls:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921141057-50528876.jpeg)

I primed with flat white rattle can paint. Then, sponged on two different colors of red with acrylics (brick red and terra cotta). Finally, I scraped some light gray dust onto the wall and rubbed it into the mortar lines with my finger.

The first floor is a precut sheet of scribed wood that is 1/32" thick. The kit comes with four pieces of 3/32" square strip wood that is perfectly precut to brace the perimeter of the floor. I glued down the bracing to the underside of the floor:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921141057-50529233.jpeg)

As you can see, it's a lot of unsupported space in the middle and the floor is very thin. But, I tried staining it, anyway. The middle curled up like a fun house mirror. Rookie mistake. So, I ended up flipping the floor over, scribed side down, and filled the middle with weights and let it dry overnight. It was flat again in the morning.

Time to assemble the brick walls. There is a recess in the base of all three wall sections that accepts the first floor. When I test fitted the floor with the brick walls snug and square in all directions, the floor stuck out in front of the wall. From the instructions and the blueprints, I wasn't sure if that was normal or not. After trying some test fitting of the front wall pieces I convinced myself that this was incorrect - the floor should be flush. I was able to get it flush with a combination of (1) filing the recess in a little further in the back plaster wall (it had a slight warp in it that was exacerbating the problem), (2) filing the front and back of the floor to skinny it down a bit, and (3) assembling the three masonry walls so that they were not exactly snug.  Here are a couple of pics:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921223613-505422149.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-180921223613-50543893.jpeg)

In the second picture, you are looking at the back wall. Note that Builders In Scale cast that wall to match the prototype's actual front wall for those that choose to maintain the historical accuracy. But, BIS recommends using their scribed wood version of the front wall because they believe it looks better (and I agreed). That wall and both rear corners will be under terrain so I am not concerned about whether they are perfectly matched. Not sure why I even painted the back wall at all. We'll see what kind of time bomb I just set for myself in the near future.

That's it for tonight. More tomorrow.

Cheers.

Can't beat some of those old Builders In Scale Kits.....I'll be looking in at this build Vince.  :)

Vince,

Excellent start and I'm in on this one for sure.

Tom  ;D

Hey Vince:

Looks like you are off to a good start. Will be following along.

Karl

Prepping the windows now. The kit has a feature I've never seen before - a cutting template for the acetate that forms the window glazing:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-240921151944-506252159.jpeg)

Pretty convenient, considering they didn't have laser cutters back in the day.

More shortly

Hey Vince:

I've never seen that before either. Good idea though.

Karl

After poring over the instructions and blueprints for a while, I think I got an idea of which walls could be braced without interference. Fortunately, it looks like I can brace the major walls without a problem. That's good, especially because the windows on these walls do not have wood on all sides. That's even more susceptible to warping issues. I remember that when I built Bandit's Roost I had a small section of wall with a door in it that was notched in this way. When I hit it with the alcohol wash, it warped in weird ways, making the door opening an interesting curved shape. Could have just been unique grain for that particular part, but it was a pain to rewash and bend back into square.

Here's an example of a couple of walls I braced:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-250921091933-506401509.jpeg)

Typical bracing pattern. Some walls have vertical braces even with the edge of the wall. The ones to which they abut have vertical braces that allow for their mates' brace. Covering the window openings is not a problem. The castings do not protrude deeper than the thickness of the wall.

There's a space on one of the long sides (see wall D1 in the photo) because when assembled, there will be a floor that fits in here. This is way bigger than it needs to be.

For areas where the bracing does not go all the way to the edge, like D1 mentioned above or the left and right ends of the wall on the bottom, I stained both sides in those unbraced areas to reduce the stress on the wood caused by applying fluid to one side only.

More shortly.

Here's the other side of the walls with their stain. I used Hunterline Driftwood:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-250921091934-506412240.jpeg)

I tried an experiment on the big wall on the bottom. Using my X-Acto knife with an #11 blade, I cut in some wood joints and then used a T-pin to put in some nail holes. The detail is very fine - I think it looks good here but, at this point, I was not sure whether it would still be visible after I painted the walls (spoiler alert - nope). That long wall is the back wall and will be very close to the backdrop. So, I'm not worried about the inconsistency I introduced. The truth is that I started scribing this in early on and then just forgot to finish the job after bracing the walls. I didn't notice that I had done that until after the stain was applied to highlight the relief.

More shortly

Here are most of the windows and walls after finishing prepping.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-240921151944-5062644.jpeg)

For the walls, I applied Ivory acrylic paint using a sort of "heavy dry brushing" technique. I wanted the building to look weathered but not too dilapidated as I would expect an active commuter station to be in somewhat decent shape. After brushing on the paint, I went back with a light inkahol wash to dim it down a little bit.

The windows were primed with rattle can Khaki (color doesn't matter much as I painted completely over the primer) and then painted with Roof Brown. After that, I dry brushed on some highlights with Barn Wood acrylic paint. Finally, glazing applied to the back with Canopy Glue.

More shortly.

For window shades, I decided to paint them on as I have been doing lately. In past kits, I just did this freehand and it worked out OK. For some reason, this time I had the bright idea of using painter's tape to get a nice, crisp, straight line. Here's the result:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-240921151945-50627592.jpeg)

Looks bad. Lots of irregular crags along the line. Perhaps I didn't pretty the tape down hard enough. I was a little afraid to do that as the acetate isn't that stiff and pressing hard would put stress on my glue joints. So, after a little futile corrective work using the back of an X-Acto knife, I finally came to my senses and repainted over them doing it freehand. I definitely overthought this one.

BTW, the shades are painted in acrylic Khaki. Here's the result (alone with the bay wall that I didn't show before):

Also BTW, if you're wondering about the horizontal line below the bay window in the bay wall, that is because that wall is made from two pieces of wood. That seam will later be covered with a 1x6 trim pice.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-240921151945-506281647.jpeg)

More shortly.

Here are the finished walls:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-240921151946-506291184.jpeg)

If you look closely, you can barely see a little of the nail and board detail I put into the three-window wall. It's in the wide spot between windows two and three. I suppose it's there albeit super subtle. I think for this to work better I would do the detailing after paint but before the final light inkahol wash. I thought about doing it now but that would mean I would darken the walls another shade which I think I don't want to do. I'll just keep this in mind for next time.

In this pic you can also see a few pieces that I didn't think I could safely brace without creating build problems. Examples include the off-color wainscoting piece and the wall piece right above it. You can also see a little warping there. (I weighted them down during the Driftwood wash -- which worked -- but I could not use weights on them down after painting or the paint would stick). I'm sure I can straighten them out during assembly.

More shortly.

I mentioned early on that this kit provides precut parts for all the strip wood. Here's an example - the door frame for the freight door on the first floor:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-240921152112-50630826.jpeg)

I would have thought this would be really convenient. And, in a way, it is. The parts are cut very accurately. It would seem to save a lot of work. What I found is reality is that I have zillions of these little pieces and I end up having to do a lot of measuring...not just for lengths but also for dimensional wood. For example, in the picture the stoop is 1/8" sq (easy), the vertical members are 4x6s and the top piece is a 6x8. There are quite a few pieces like this. Some 1", some 29/32", etc. I think I just prefer to cut my own pieces with my own measurements or over a template.

Interestingly, those other pieces you see (wainscoting and the piece above it) have to be chopped up by hand. Definitely feels like I'm starting to get a desire to try some scratch building. (just as soon as I build my three million kits...)

More shortly.

Here's the door frame assembled:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-240921152113-50631106.jpeg)

And here's an "exploded view" of the front wall, minus the bay.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-250921103031-50642123.jpeg)

I'll need to fuss with this a while to make sure all of these pieces fit together to be the right width to match the brick foundation and the three second-story walls already assembled (you can see a small corner of that in the upper left.

I'll need to be away from this for a little while. Back as soon as I can.

OK, back from our vacation and back in business. Here is the first floor front wall with the pieces all assembled:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-051021001848-507842368.jpeg)

It is always interesting to me how I don't "see" any of the imperfections until I take a close-up picture and post it here. I am noticing all of the little frayed wood pieces on the bottom of the wainscoting. I'll need to clean that up.

One thing you do notice is that the top piece (cream colored) is a bit longer than the wainscoting on the bottom. The top piece was cut to size according to the instructions as was the bottom. The strips of siding for both pieces were the same to begin with. But, there is extra wood for the top because of that double window in the middle. In any event, I had a choice - cut the top a little shorter to match the bottom or add a piece of strip wood to the bottom to make it match the top. Comparing this piece to the brick foundation I opted for the later as it appeared that matched both it and the width of the second story better. In later pictures, you will see that I added a piece of 4x4 strip wood to fill the gap.

The coarse interface between the top and bottom siding will be covered with a piece of trim.

More shortly.

Here is a picture of the back and side wall assembly sitting on top of the back and side walls of the foundation. I am building this fairly differently from the way the instructions indicate. The manual asks you to glue down the second floor before doing anything else. I was concerned about doing that because the walls from the second floor fit over and around that floor. Because I wasn't sure how well things would fit (in part because of my potential for not following the instructions correctly), I am not yet doing that. In this pic, the second floor is not yet glued to the foundation:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-051021001848-507851252.jpeg)

Here is an example of my concern for getting things to fit. This is a picture of the second floor sitting inside the assembly with the three second-floor walls shown above:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-051021001847-507822334.jpeg)

You can see that I also used the Hunterline Driftwood stain on this (on both sides to reduce warping, then sitting under weights overnight). Before staining, this floor fit perfectly inside the wall assembly. Here you can see that the floor seems to have expanded by about two rows of flooring. I even measured it by hand after staining and, sure enough, it was bigger than it was beforehand. Not a problem here as I just cut off two boards. But, this did lead me to the approach of committing things to the build as late as possible so that I can react to issues.

More shortly.

I also decided to build both stories of the front wall rather than one floor at a time. First, I wanted good alignment on the left and right for the corner moulding, and second I just wanted to be able to do a bit more test fitting before committing things that would be difficult to change. Here is a pic of the front wall without the bay window and finish moulding:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-051021001849-50786197.jpeg)

More shortly.

Here's a look at the back of the front wall. Most of the bracing here is not specified in the instructions; rather, I used some of my 1/8" stock to stiffen things up. All of the bracing that is specified uses much smaller pieces of wood. Inadequate, in my opinion.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-051021002008-50789287.jpeg)

More shortly.

Here is most of the bay window subassembly. Just missing the trim at this point. Seems like such a simple little piece but this was actually 18 pieces of wood that BIS provided (not including the trim to be added) plus my own additional bracing (and window castings).

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-051021001849-507871999.jpeg)

More shortly.

If you look back a couple of notes to the picture of the full front wall, you can see that the first and second floors are made from separate parts (you can see it in this pic also). The interface where those meet is a seam that will be covered up by a 1x6 piece of trim. That piece of trim will be 3" (scale) above the seam and 3" below. That would mean that the trim would interfere with the bay window unless the trim is notched or the bay would rest on just that skinny one-by stock. To deal with this, the kit gives you a 3" sill on which the bay rests. Here's a pic:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-051021002008-507881142.jpeg)

I have to say, I am quite amazed by the engineering in this kit. Almost feels as though you could build the real Tennessee Pass Depot from this design. Part of me is complaining about all of the detail work but I think I am mostly happy that I am learning by getting a different way to look at things.

That's it for this evening. Tomorrow I hope to get the whole structure pulled together -- at least without the roofs.

Made some progress in the last couple of days.finished the walls, put in the flooring for the second floor, and glued the frame parts to the brick foundation. Here's a pic:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-061021230301-507932013.jpeg)

I started to put in some of the trim.

More shortly.

Installing the bay window is next. Before finishing all of the trim on the bay, I tried a test fit into the opening in the second story:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-061021230301-507951062.jpeg)

You can see that the opening is just a little too wide -- a few scale inches or so. I found that I could snug it up by cutting a couple of scale 2x8s, one for each side, to serve as spacers. I painted their edges to match the rest of the exterior wood.

More shortly.

Here's where I'm at now. The bay window is attached and all of the wood trim is installed. Here is the front:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-061021230301-507961756.jpeg)

The view from the north side:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-061021230302-507971192.jpeg)

The back (remember that back brick wall will be completely underground so I didn't bother finishing it much.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-061021230302-507981420.jpeg)

And the south wall. The trim is not installed here yet as there is still an enclosed stairway that has to be built and attached here.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-061021230358-507992356.jpeg)

This picture really highlights the inaccuracy of my build. You can see that the top of the south (side) wall is noticeably lower than the top of the front wall. Turns out that the gap exactly matches the width of the 2nd floor sheet, perhaps suggesting that I should have been resting the entire second floor wall structure on top of the floor rather than around it (and resting on the foundation). But, for that to have worked (I did do test fittings earlier on) I would had to have trimmed the walls a bit. The walls are too long to make that work right out of the box. So, I'm not sure what I did wrong but I am hoping it is minor enough that it can be covered up when the roofing is applied.

Two things for tomorrow:

1. Decide whether I want to try to do some second floor interior for the building. If not, I may need a view block behind the bay window. Seems a shame to waste the hardwood floor but this building will be relatively far away from the view. I think I will likely save my efforts for something that is nearer to the aisle.

2. Start on the roof. This building has two hipped roofs (I just learned that term when reading the manual). I have never built one of these. Looks difficult. Looks difficult in real life, too.

More tomorrow.

Before checking out for the evening, I wanted to ask a question about roofing:

1. For most (all?) of the kits I built early on I assembled the subroofing on the building first and then applied the shingles/tarpaper/metal/whatever afterwards. This kit recommends that you apply the roofing first, then put it all together. What are your preference? Is there a good reason to do it one way versus the other? Seems like it would mostly be a matter of taste but I thought I would ask.

Cheers.

Looks great Steve. I have done roofing both ways.

Coming together very nicely Steve,
Scale modeling is often an exercise in problem solving and you are doing a very nice job on this build.
I too have done the roofing in both approaches but generally if you can do it 'flat' while on the bench rather than the structure, that is my preferred method.
Looking forward to following your progress here,
--Paul

Thanks Curt and Paul. I think I will put the shingles on first. Given the complication of the hipped roof as well as having to work around the bay window structure, I think it will be easier to apply shingles first.

The only concern I have is that I suspect some of the parts expanded when I did the "double-sided alcohol and put it under a heavy book" process on the parts. I saw this directly with the floors. If the same thing happened with the walls (which might be the case as just discussed in this thread), then the roof might end up being a bit too small and it will be more difficult to add a couple of courses of shingles after the rest of the roof is shingled. I will keep an eye on that as I'm preparing the surfaces to make sure I can extended it a bit, if necessary.

Regards,
Vince

Looking good, Vince.

I do tend to put roofing material on first and then add to the structure.  I think the biggest plus for this order is you are less likely to damage the structure while fiddling around with all that roofing material.  Once you have this hip roof under your belt I urge you to do more.  Often the flat roofs we imaging are behind those parapet walls on city buildings are in fact gable and hip roofs.  It adds a lot of interest to the scene.

You could take the side wall off, add chocolate brown trim to the bottom of the wall, and then reattach it (depending on the glue you have used).  The trim would kind of match the trim on the other wall and raise the top of the windows to line up with the others.  Is the side wall also low against the wall at the other end as well?  If it does you could just add a piece of trim to the top of the wall in your cladding colour.  When the overhang of the roof is on the kit you would barely notice it - at least much less than a gap.

Cheers, Mark.

Working on the main roof now. Here is the roof card with the main roof pieces cut out:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-091021191445-508162200.jpeg)

This is REALLY heavy card stock. It takes many more passes with the knife to cut through this stuff. That's good.

The instructions do not really have you do any bracing other than a couple of small pieces in the corners to help line things up. I don't think I like that idea...will probably put in some bracing of some sort.

More shortly.

Some of you may have remember that when I was building Dexter's Dead End, I was whining about how hard it was to use the Campbell shingles. I was using Canopy glue in combination with the glue backing on the shingles and the shingles had a strong tendency to warp away from the kerfs, causing a "smile" in the strip that I did a bad job of controlling. A couple folks reminded me that 3M transfer tape would be a much better solution. It was sort of a "duh" moment for me as I use that tape frequently for other types of roofing. I guess I got caught up with the fact that the Campbell's shingles already have glue on them and that using a wet glue in addition would also serve to active the shingle glue.

Regardless, I decided to use the Campbells again here, this time with transfer tape. Works great, of course. Here's the back roof in progress:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-091021191446-50817375.jpeg)

I still need some practice on this but this method is clearly better for lots of reasons: (1) easier to fight the "smile", (2) doesn't allow glue to ooze under the shingles which will make it easier to lift up shingles later for a more weathered look, (3) Once you use a finger nail to push the top of the strip into the glue, it stays -- no worries about working somewhere else on the strip and having the first part warp on you without you noticing until all the glue is dried, (4) keeping the top of the strip straight and fighting the smile tends to bunch up the shingles a bit, popping them out, which results in a bit more overall texture to the roof.

Anyway, you all already knew all of that. Thanks again for the comments a couple of months ago.

And, as an added bonus, I have lots of partial spools of Campbell shingles from other kits (you never use them all). Lots of inventory I can now use.

More shortly.

Interesting problem to solve. Notice on the main roofing sheet that there is a little diamond-shaped piece called a "cricket." This is supposed to go between the bay roof and the main roof. This is another angled piece to keep the rain runoff from collecting at the base of the bay window structure in back.

To account for the that, the front main roof section and the rear bay roof section have areas they tell you to not shingle. Because I have been seeing some measurement discrepancies so far (tens of thousanths), I am concerned that I will end up not shingling an area that later doesn't match up well with where it needs to be. Then I will have a difficult time putting in additional shingles to fill the gap. So, I am going to shingle over these areas and assume I can install the cricket over them when necessary or perhaps even cut shingles away, if needed.

I sense some expletives coming in my future.....

Here are the relevant pieces:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-091021191446-508181963.jpeg)

Note also that the bay roof has the points cut off of the left and right roof pieces (side "D" and "B"). That is because that bay roof theoretically has some interference with the main roof. Again, I did not make this modification. My plan is to put the main roof in place and then see where things settle out with the bay roof at that time.

I am not showing it in this picture but the front piece for the bay roof is bigger than the back one (The "C" piece with "no shingles"). That would make sense if the back has interference and has to be truncated. You can tell that from the picture because the B and D pieces have more shingle courses than the C piece does.

Yep - gonna have some "fun" before too long....

More shortly.

Here are the four main roof pieces with shingles applied:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-091021191446-508191060.jpeg)

The instructions call for building the roof away from the building and then installing it. I think that makes sense. But, I am still concerned that when I paint and weather it, it will be subject to warping. So, I will add some 1/8" stock to the pieces before putting them together. While I'm doing that, I will think about whether to weather before of after the roof is installed.

By the way, notice that on the south roof (the one on the right) there is a small area unshingled. That is where the chimney goes. No harm in doing that as there are no measurement dependencies there.

That's it for a while. I'll be back when I have these four pieces put together.

Cheers,
Vince

OK, time to glue the main roof together. I've never done this before. I assume there is no thinking to be done other than making sure that the roof eaves are perpendicular and the roof parts are touching at the seams. The geometry should just take care of itself. I guess.

I decided to do this the same way I do walls - do two "L" sections independently and then glue them together.

I decided to use a carpenter's square to keep things perpendicular. It conveniently let me slip the shingle overhand under the square while catching the card stock underlayment up against the square for a good 90 degree angle. Here's the back roof and south side:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021123624-508201552.jpeg)

and here's the front roof and north side:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021123624-508221093.jpeg)

More shortly.

Here I'm gluing the two Ls together. I ended up doing the two seams independently and then one more gluing with some weight to tighten up the gap on the top. Here's a pic of gluing the first seam

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021205617.jpeg)

More shortly

Here are some pics of the first test fitting of the roof on the building. Actually turned out better than I thought. I will have some shingle repair to do but I think it's not too bad.

Two pics of the front:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021210852-508271311.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021210852-50829521.jpeg)

A pic that is straight-on from the north side. You can see that the roof appears to be sitting a little big asymetrically. That is, there looks to be a little more eave on the front side than the back side.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021210852-508301266.jpeg)

A pic from the back. The roof looks a little crooked here but I do have some ability to position it better when I glue it down.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021210853-508311449.jpeg)

And finally a closer shot from the south side:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021210853-508321189.jpeg)

That glue blob you see came from the Campbell's strip. I was at the end of the roll and didn't notice this until I had already fastened the strip into the contact adhesive. I'm not sure if I will try to replace those shingles or just see what else I can do. Good place for a vent pipe, maybe.

The other thing you can see here is that the main roof intersects the bay tower pretty close to the top. That is consistent with the notches being cut out of the side roof panels and the shorter back panel. Not yet sure how good the fit will be but it's encouraging.

More shortly.

Another first for me. The kit comes with a separate piece of gummed brown paper to cut individual corner shingles for the four angles. In the past, I have always covered roof angles with a long string of folded paper. I am interested to see how this turns out.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-101021210928-50833196.jpeg)

There are also two finial castings that are installed on the roof peak (and another for the cricket).

The instructions call for installing the roof now, then putting on the corner pieces. That seems like the best way to go. Once that's all in, I will just have to be careful while painting the roof.

I will check back in once have installed the roof corner shingles.

Cheers,
Vince

Vince


Very nice build, looks great.

Everything looks great. I think the roof spots you talked about could be covered by weathering.

Hey Vince:

Roof look just great. I think Curt is right about covering those spots with weathering.

Karl

Quote from: S&S RR on October 10, 2021, 10:07:52 PM
Vince


Very nice build, looks great.

Thanks, John

Quote from: PRR Modeler on October 11, 2021, 08:45:20 AM
Everything looks great. I think the roof spots you talked about could be covered by weathering.

Thanks, Curt. I think you're right. Way more often than not, when I try to fix something I make it worse. I'll just try to weather the problem away.

Quote from: postalkarl on October 11, 2021, 02:25:52 PM
Hey Vince:

Roof look just great. I think Curt is right about covering those spots with weathering.

Karl

Thanks, Karl.

Hey Vince:

You are quite welcome.

Karl

You just can't beat those Campbell shingles.....well done Vince.  8)

You did a terrific job with the Campbells shingles, I've often found that we can do our best to make things as perfect as possible and then realize that being finicky on the details as we go quickly get recovered when we blend it all together.

Nice work Vince.

Quote from: GPdemayo on October 12, 2021, 09:01:58 AM
You just can't beat those Campbell shingles.....well done Vince.  8)

Thanks Gregory. Using the transfer tape to fasten the shingles down completely changed the game for me. I'm a fan (again).

Quote from: Lynnb on October 13, 2021, 11:15:18 PM
You did a terrific job with the Campbells shingles, I've often found that we can do our best to make things as perfect as possible and then realize that being finicky on the details as we go quickly get recovered when we blend it all together.

Thanks for the support, Lynn. Yeah, the lesson I continue to experience, but not learn, is that I allow myself to get wrapped around the axle on little detail-y things when I'm working on something that isn't perfect. Then, later when the scene is complete, I isn't at all significant -- or even noticeable. Hope some day that will eventually sink in.

Vince

Quote from: carl b on October 14, 2021, 07:18:00 AM
Nice work Vince.

Thanks, Carl.

Vince

I have a few updates to post. First, I finished the corner shingles for the main roof. Here are a couple of pics:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-141021114308-508501447.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-141021114309-50876748.jpeg)

This was pretty tedious but I love the look. I now have an even higher regard for real craftsmen that can do this and actually get them straight.

Gotta run to a pizza lunch with a modeling buddy of mine. I'll post some updates after that.

Cheers,
Vince

Here's the peak of the main roof. I looked around on the Internet for a while and it looks like this thing is called, depending on where I found it, a ridge crest or ornamental ridge cresting or something like that. I decided to make it "copper" -- love that green patina. Here are a couple of pics:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-141021114309-50877175.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-141021114309-508781222.jpeg)

The part that comes with the kit is just the vertical part. And, that came in two pieces. One had to be cut to size and edge-glued to the other. Also, it wasn't clear to me how this attached to the roof. Seemed unlikely that it would just sit atop the shingles. So, I made up a ridge cap from the fold of a discarded envelope and painted it the same. The interface between the crest and the ridge cap wasn't clean....there were some noticeable gaps. I used gap-filling CA to glue the crest to the cap. That resulted in some of the blobiness that you see at the base of the crest. I thought about working on that more -- perhaps some filing and/or more glue to make it more consistent. But, I had already had a couple of problems with the crest coming apart at the edge-gluing site. So, I'm deciding to leave it alone (trying to learn the lesson mentioned above). Weathering will help and it's not that noticeable when you look at it live.

More shortly.

Vince

And a couple of pics after weathering:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-141021114423-508802253.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-141021114423-508792191.jpeg)

I tried to keep the weathering relatively modest as I am assuming the roof shouldn't be very tattered for a functioning commuter station. I started with a wash of Hunterline Light Gray stain. I then used some powders to create effects in a few locations. Finally, some dry brushing with Ivory art store acrylic.

More shortly.

Building the bay roof now. Same process as the main roof:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-141021114423-508811036.jpeg)

As I am typing this, the bay roof is now assembled and the glue is set. I'll follow up with that later this afternoon.

Cheers,
Vince

Your roof looks mighty fine, Vince.

I love the hip capping - well worth the effort.

Cheers, Mark.

Vince, I'll second Mark's comments in that the roof looks very nice.
And I too like the hip capping, well worth it !!
I'll continue to follow along with your progress,
--Paul

Thank you, Mark and Paul. It's always nice to get some encouragement as focus on flaws....

Minor update - here's the basic bay roof before finishing the corner caps and weathering:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-151021093404-508821378.jpeg)

I am a bit surprised that it fit pretty well given all of the dimension problems I have had. And, when you look closely from ground level at a few of the angles you can see some small irregularities, but I will fight the urge to fuss with it this time around.

I'll report back once I have finished this roof and the "cricket" (the little angular thingy that goes between the bay roof and the main roof).

Cheers, Vince

Vince,

The roof is turning out looking very good. I like the look of any hip roof.

Tom  ;D

Quote from: ACL1504 on October 15, 2021, 09:50:27 AM
Vince,

The roof is turning out looking very good. I like the look of any hip roof.

Tom  ;D

Thank you, Tom. I agree. More of a pain to build but a much more interesting structure.

I finished the roof today. Should all be there now - the bay roof, the cricket between the bay roof and main roof (Does anyone know if that's the real name of that juber?). The crest on the cricket. All the weathering.

Here are some pics:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-151021195218-508952183.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-151021195218-50896811.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-151021195217-50889457.jpeg)

The last pic is a bit of a puzzle to me. The roof on the bay looks a little crooked -- lower on the right than on the left. But before I weathered that roof, I took another picture that I did not post previously. The roof look somewhat straighter to me:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-151021195920-50897536.jpeg)

No idea how that happened. Perhaps it's just the different camera angle. Anyway, it's a bit disappointing but not a showstopper for me. I think the view from the aisle when the diorama is in place will be good.

Next up is the final piece of the building - the external enclosed stairway on the south (right) side. I'll be back once I have something to show there.

Cheers,
Vince

Great work on the hip shingles and ridge Vince.  8)

Quote from: GPdemayo on October 16, 2021, 08:27:13 AM
Great work on the hip shingles and ridge Vince.  8)

Vince,


What Greg said and then some.  Overall really nice work on a challenging kit! 

Hey Vince:

The roof shingles look just great. Glad to see you used Cap shingles instead of folded paper.

Karl

Everything looks awesome Vince.

Quote from: GPdemayo on October 16, 2021, 08:27:13 AM
Great work on the hip shingles and ridge Vince.  8)

Thanks, Greg

Quote from: jerryrbeach on October 17, 2021, 08:41:47 AM

Quote from: GPdemayo on October 16, 2021, 08:27:13 AM
Great work on the hip shingles and ridge Vince.  8)

Vince,


What Greg said and then some.  Overall really nice work on a challenging kit!

Thank you, Jerry. It's kind of funny....I haven't built a ton of kits, but after a dozen or two kits that included FSM, SRMW, Bar Mills, FOS, and others, I figured I would bang this one out pretty easily. Turns out to be the most difficult building I have tried. Different manufacturer, different things to do -- it's all causing me to take a lot more time looking at things and understanding. (Plus, I have been "wasting" a lot of time working with my wife to clean up the outside of the house and gardens for the winter  ;D)

Just like flying, I guess ... need to have a series of experiences that are just a little beyond your comfort zone but not enough so that you get in trouble.

Cheers, Vince

Quote from: postalkarl on October 17, 2021, 11:18:26 PM
Hey Vince:

The roof shingles look just great. Glad to see you used Cap shingles instead of folded paper.

Karl

Thank you, Karl. Unfortunately, I really like them. Seems I have just signed myself up for a lot more work going forward with future kits.

Quote from: PRR Modeler on October 18, 2021, 08:25:06 AM
Everything looks awesome Vince.

Thanx, Curt.

Vince,
Your corner shingles look great on the station.
Will have to try that out on one of the future builds here instead of the normal paper cap strip.
Tommy

Hey vince:

Yep they are A little more work but they really make the difference. Keep up the great work.

Karl

Thanks Tom and Karl.

More progress to report. I have pretty much finished the basic depot building. Much more to do on the scene but I'll get to that shortly. First, here are some pics of the depot:

First, from the front:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121335-509741209.jpeg)

I added Metra signage -- or at least what Metra signage would be if there were a commuter station in Monee. I did the graphics in PowerPoint and pulling the Metra logo off of Duckduckgo. As usual, the picture close-ups accentuate the flaws. I used scrap chipboard from the kits's roof sheet to back the sign and then fastened with 3M transfer tape. That chipboard is very high quality -- very heavy gauge. I think the white edges on the Metra sign are because my X-acto blade was too dull after all of that cutting. Should have put in a new blade. Not sure if I will go back and replace this or not. Smart money bets on "no."

Another interesting aspect of this kit is that the roofing paper they supplied for the external staircase was actually black crepe paper. Super thin and not much of it. Because of that, you can see the subroof pattern showing through the roofing. (The subroof is a scribed sheet, sortof like the wainscoting in front -- presumably to make it easier to have the roof conform to the curved shape of the stairwell.) After looking at it a while I kind of like it. It's a bit of a different look that is interesting.

Also, you can see the chimney is installed now.

More shortly.

Here's the view from the south:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121336-50975132.jpeg)

I see I forgot to put the pitch around the base of the chimney. Definitely need to go back and do that. The usual Metra signage on the roof. I am pretty happy with the way that turned out.

The kit suggests finishing the stairway in the same color as the depot. I wanted some contrast for a little more interest. This is just stained with Hunterline Driftwood. It's a little clean...perhaps could use a little smudgery. I'll think about that.

The stairway is also supposed to be supported by a couple of 8x8s and some cross bracing. I purposely left that off for now until I see what I'm going to do with the terrain.

More shortly.

The view from the north:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121337-509761839.jpeg)

Nothing notable there, I think. And finally, the view from the back:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121337-509771732.jpeg)

Again, remember that all of the brickwork on this side will be below grade. The only thing new here is the vent pipe in the roof. I added the plate because I have been noticing a lot of them on roofs -- not just a pipe that comes out. The plate is just some scrap paper painted with burnt umber with a little chalk added. I think that, to be more accurate, the top of the plate needs to be under one course of shingles. At least that's the way it is on my house. I'll need to keep that in mind for next time.

This detail will be mostly out of view since it will be facing the backdrop. But, good practice.

More shortly.

That's it for the building. The kit also includes a wood deck. The blueprint includes a birds-eye view of how the deck relates to the building. But, it's supposed to be a 1:1 drawing and the dimensions are not even close. Here's a pic:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121337-50978708.jpeg)

You can see that my plaster castings fit well within the outline suggested by the blueprint. But, interestingly, the width of the platform where it abuts the building is close when you consider the stairway. Perhaps that's what they had in mind? Here's a [blurry] view of the platform blueprint at the front of the building:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121507-509792339.jpeg)

Here you see that the platform is just about right, although still not quite wide enough. Even more confusing is that the instructions say you need to notch out the platform for the concrete step in front of the freight door. But, if that's true, you have interference with stairwell. Or, the stairwell needed to be attached a little higher so that it would land on the platform rather than ground level.

So, all of that sounded too complicated to me. I will raise the depot by the height of the platform and everything should be fine. Also I'll make the platform a little wider (looks like a couple of planks or so) so that the entire depot footprint, including the stairwell, matches up.

More platform discussion in a bit...

So, regarding the platform, Metra stations do not [usually] have platforms that are less than one bilevel coach long. On the one hand I want at least some prototype fidelity which would mean a longer blacktop or concrete platform. But I also like old style wood platforms. In the 2020 NMRA calendar, there was a pic that really grabbed my attention:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121507-50980634.jpeg)

This looks like it has all sorts of wins for this particular site: (1) I can have my longer, asphalt platform at track level, (2) I can also have my older style depot's smaller, wood platform, and (3) It gives me an excuse to raise the height of the depot site. I especially like (3) because I have more recently become sensitized to "verticality" (thanks to Mark, Craig, and others). It's even more important here as it will be close to the backdrop and therefore more easily obscured by closer structures.

So, that's my plan. If anyone has seen my other thread this morning about building stone retaining walls -- this is why.

More shortly.

Here's the depot site again:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121508-50981525.jpeg)

That's 1" foam temporarily under it. I will play around with this a bit now to get a better idea of how high I can go and have it still make sense.

The other reason I would like to raise the depot is because I can then have more natural land forms bridging that scene to the scene I will build to the south (right). That's the town of Monee. Here's a wider view to show that:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-251021121508-509822053.jpeg)

The higher the depot, the less likely I will need a rock face or another retaining wall to bridge the two scenes. I'm sure there's a good balance in there somewhere.

By the way, I expect to have a passenger platform on the viewer's side of the tracks as well. And then I will need a walkway to get across the tracks as well as the wrought-iron fencing between the tracks (Atlas makes a "hairpin fencing" product that is about perfect). I have seen a lot of double track scenes modeled with no passenger platform on the non-depot side and it always bothers me.

That's it for now. I'll build the wooden platform and work on blocking the scene and report back when I have something. It's also about time to get those clouds painted for this area as well as finalize my backdrop horizon plan.

....as soon as I know where the horizon is...

Later,
Vince

Great progress, Vince.

First, let me say that that view of the roof from above is magnificent!

And so - following on from that - go easy on the pitch around the chimney.  It might be worth using some low tack masking tape around the chimney to get a good, even, clean join.  IMO too many great models are ruined with sloppy pitch.  Also - the sign.  You have a great model there - I think it would be worth the effort to do a do over, or maybe you could add some framing in 2x1" or 4x2" timber painted in your trim colour.  This would set the front sign off nicely and hide the white from the blunt blade.  I also feel the blue signage needs some heavy weathering.  At the moment it stands out - kind of like some brand new signage has just been added to a well worn structure (of course, maybe that is the look you are going for).

I think the step with the double platform at two levels is very interesting, and, as you say, will help accentuate the verticality.

Looking most excellent.

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks, Mark.

Really good point on the pitch. Like a lot of people, I do the mixture of glue and black paint for the pitch material. Not surprisingly, I routinely apply a bead that is not only too big but also very inconsistent. I am sure I have blobs that are easily a scale foot or two against a chimney or a vent or something. Really catches your eye and not in a good way.

I tried going from a toothpick to a straight pin but it's still a problem. I think the surface tension is so high for the glue that it's really difficult to guard against big blobs. I also thought about masking ... have you made that work? Not sure if you pull the tape up right away or after it dries. I assume right away. Does the glue stay in place? Do you mask the chimney also? What about circular protrusions like vents? I would be interested in hearing about anyone's experience.

My more recent thinking is to try acrylic tube paint and a straight pin. Very viscous, of course - feels like it might be more controllable.

Hi Vince.

In New Zealand I have pretty much never seen pitch used as a flashing.  Because of this and my not liking its appearance I almost always use painted high tack masking tape or aluminum foil attached to double sided tape as my flashing.  In this way any shape can be addressed and you can get a nice, clean, even seam, as well as it looking prototypically correct.  You have to take care to get the order of application right, as you do with any roofing (how many times have I seen valleys on top of roof planes?)  This involves thinking about your roof and flashing before you start.  It is a little fiddly to do.  Page 12 on my wharf and cannery thread goes through the process with masking tape.

http://modelersforum.com/index.php?topic=4879.165

Cheers, Mark.

Vince,


I am posting a link to a postcard view of the O&W station in Oneida, NY.  As you can see, it sits well above the tracks, yet below the level of the tracks crossing over the O&W.  The tall rectangular structure is a team powered elevator to allow passengers to make the connection between the lines without using the stairs.  I hought this might help you to determine the elevation for your station.  (I am always reluctant to post any photo that I myself did not either take or that is part of my personal collection.)


https://www.cardcow.com/238364/oneida-new-york-main-street-depot/

Quote from: jerryrbeach on October 26, 2021, 03:32:12 PM
Vince,


I am posting a link to a postcard view of the O&W station in Oneida, NY.  As you can see, it sits well above the tracks, yet below the level of the tracks crossing over the O&W.  The tall rectangular structure is a team powered elevator to allow passengers to make the connection between the lines without using the stairs.  I hought this might help you to determine the elevation for your station.  (I am always reluctant to post any photo that I myself did not either take or that is part of my personal collection.)


https://www.cardcow.com/238364/oneida-new-york-main-street-depot/

Wow, Jerry - that is very neat. What a great scene. The elevator is pretty interesting. Did you really mean "team?" Would that be like a horse-drawn cable leading to the pulleys for the elevator? (Not that I'm thinking about implementing this for a 1990 Illinois Central depot  :) )

Minor update - I built the kit-supplied platform. I just followed a typical FSM process. First, I made a photocopy of the 1:1 template. I then taped it to my glass top. I then added some additional plank lines to make it easier to keep the planking aligned. Then I glued the 4x8 joists to the template.

Here's an in-progress shot. As I mentioned earlier, I made the part next to the depot a little wider to fix what looked like a too-small dimension.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-261021181519-509961770.jpeg)

And here's the completed platform:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-261021181519-509971886.jpeg)

Finally, I pulled the platform off the template, scraped away the glue blobs from where the joists were attached to the template.

Turns out the platform is just about 1/8" high from bottom to top of planks. Here's a pic of the depot sitting on some 1/8" bracing stock and set on the platform.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-261021181520-509981880.jpeg)

Feels a bit too much zebra-y. I used three different Hunterline stains: Driftwood, Cordovan Brown, and Light Gray. Those dark planks are actually the Light Gray ones. Not sure how I feel about those, yet. May have to scrub in some dirt or chalk to try to lighten them up a bit. Will look at it with fresh eyes in a day or two.

Vince

Quote from: vinceg on October 26, 2021, 06:07:29 PM

Quote from: jerryrbeach on October 26, 2021, 03:32:12 PM
Vince,


I am posting a link to a postcard view of the O&W station in Oneida, NY.  As you can see, it sits well above the tracks, yet below the level of the tracks crossing over the O&W.  The tall rectangular structure is a team powered elevator to allow passengers to make the connection between the lines without using the stairs.  I hought this might help you to determine the elevation for your station.  (I am always reluctant to post any photo that I myself did not either take or that is part of my personal collection.)


https://www.cardcow.com/238364/oneida-new-york-main-street-depot/ (https://www.cardcow.com/238364/oneida-new-york-main-street-depot/)

Wow, Jerry - that is very neat. What a great scene. The elevator is pretty interesting. Did you really mean "team?" Would that be like a horse-drawn cable leading to the pulleys for the elevator? (Not that I'm thinking about implementing this for a 1990 Illinois Central depot  :) )

Wow.  Sorry Vince.  I really need to proof my copy.  The elevator was steam powered.

Hey Vince:

Platform looks great. Can't wait to see more.

Karl

Great job Vince! The roof is especially well done...and the roof means so much in our little worlds  ;)


John

Vince,

Yepper, I'm loving this thread.

Tom  ;D

Just got caught up.  Very well done.

Nice work Vince - looks great.

Doug

Quote from: jerryrbeach on October 26, 2021, 06:35:55 PM

Quote from: vinceg on October 26, 2021, 06:07:29 PM

Quote from: jerryrbeach on October 26, 2021, 03:32:12 PM
Vince,


I am posting a link to a postcard view of the O&W station in Oneida, NY.  As you can see, it sits well above the tracks, yet below the level of the tracks crossing over the O&W.  The tall rectangular structure is a team powered elevator to allow passengers to make the connection between the lines without using the stairs.  I hought this might help you to determine the elevation for your station.  (I am always reluctant to post any photo that I myself did not either take or that is part of my personal collection.)


https://www.cardcow.com/238364/oneida-new-york-main-street-depot/ (https://www.cardcow.com/238364/oneida-new-york-main-street-depot/)

Wow, Jerry - that is very neat. What a great scene. The elevator is pretty interesting. Did you really mean "team?" Would that be like a horse-drawn cable leading to the pulleys for the elevator? (Not that I'm thinking about implementing this for a 1990 Illinois Central depot  :) )

Wow.  Sorry Vince.  I really need to proof my copy.  The elevator was steam powered.

Kinda funny - you had me dazed for a minute.....wait...there's a steam locomotive in the picture but they couldn't use steam power for the elevator? Brain shorted out. Thanks for setting me straight :)

Quote from: postalkarl on October 27, 2021, 09:20:18 AM
Hey Vince:

Platform looks great. Can't wait to see more.

Karl

Thanks to Karl, John, Tom, Bob, and Doug for the kind comments. John, I also like the individual cap shingles. So much more work but a really nice detail even though I didn't line them up that well this first time. I am afraid I just set a new "gotta have" for myself for any future builds.

There are still a couple of things to fix on the building and a lot of detail to add but I got a little anxious and decided I wanted to try a [really] rough mockup of the scene so that I knew where this might be headed. Here's a pic:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-281021165308-509991439.jpeg)

The depot is raised about 2 inches. The wads of paper are to simulate, using an enormous amount of imagination, the rough landform around the depot. I think I like this height. I can shave the corners off the foam to the right and I think the slope will be believable. Also, the depot is high enough so that if you are looking north from further down the aisle (from the right) you can see the rooftop Metra sign.

The faux stone wall is an image from the LARC library I bought that I am hoping will be the backdrop system of my dreams. I will build a real wall for the final scene, of course. I also wanted to rough in some asphalt platforms (including the "stay behind the yellow line lines") to see how that felt. That's just black foam core. The final result will be plaster. (Although, I'm a little surprised...the foam core doesn't look too bad).

For completeness, I even put in one piece of the hairpin fencing. I will still need a wooden pedestrian walkway to go across the tracks but I didn't see a need to mock that up.

The ballast you see there is left over from previous trackage that was hand laid. I decided to rip that up and put in flex track but didn't get up all of the old ballast. I'm not sure what scenic treatment I will use in the final scene (which ballast, how to paint the track, etc).

I also still need to figure out how to position the stairway(s) to get from the depot down to the platform.

Couple more pics shortly....

Here's a few from the south.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-281021165309-510242417.jpeg)

As I mentioned, the depot is high enough that it isn't buried behind the "highlands" of Monee.

I am trying to find the right balance for the length of the platforms. These are about 20". Still nowhere near a real Metra platform but maybe long enough to be credible in my shrunken world.

Wish I could learn to take a picture without putting my finger in front of the lens.

One last pic - an "action" photo :)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/760-281021165309-510262423.jpeg)

I do like the fact that the depot is still clearly visible during the station stop. I think it would look a little funny to have it down at track level with so my height nearby.

I still have to think about a few things -- do I worry about a parking lot for the station? How will this later transition to the left? I think I now have a feel for where the horizon and I can start working on the backdrop pics. But first, will need to work up the energy and courage to airbrush in the clouds for this area.

More as it happens....

Vince

Vince,


First, I really like the elevation you chose for the station. It will allow a reasonable gradient to make the transition to the higher area to the right while allowing a nice easy downgrade to the scene to its left.  The steps to track level will also add a nice touch, and be a focal point for viewers.  The wrought iron fence is a great touch, too. 


Next, the platform length.  Having ridden a few commuter lines in and around the Big Apple, I noticed that many platforms are shorter than the train length.  At those stations the arrival is preceeded by an announcement of which car doors will open for exit and entry.  It seems to me that you have plenty of length for your scene, longer would IMO, look out of place.

Excellent build Vince.....well done.  8)

Since there are baggage doors on the station, are you thinking about an elevator to move bags from train-level to station-level?  That was actually pretty common even in the late 19th century.  You could do it as a visible elevator at one end of the platform.  Lots of visual interest with that!!


dave

Vince....
This is getting really cool.
ThanxBob

Vince,
Neat seeing the station photo you posted with the bi level Metra commuter cars.
Rode them for over a dozen years to get downtown from the GMO-IC Glenn Yard on the south side and from CNW Crystal Lake - McHenry on the NW side.
You might have to send me your timetable and pricing to buy a 10 ride or monthly ticket.
Nice built on the depot.
Tommy

Vince you're doing an amazing job, the shingle job you did looks fantastic. I think the most difficult task in building our railroads is getting just the right elevations for structures, track and scenery to come together.
Have you given any thought to painting a backdrop?

Hey vince:

Looks just great can't wait to see the finished product with the scenery around it.

Karl