Brass 2-10-2 loco painting and installation of TCS WOW Sound

Started by ACL1504, February 21, 2020, 06:44:13 PM

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BandOGuy


Late to the party, but I'll post my guess answer any way.
It's definitely not a Jersey Central loco despite the super heater mount. The give away is the non-anthracite firebox. I'll wait on what it really is.
Now I've got to rush down stairs and give this rascal by ESP all the yet undiscovered problems my modest brass fleet has. Then Tom can tell all of us how he solved those problem.
After while! (Later is all ready taken).
Working on my second million. I gave up on the first.

NKP768

Hi Tom,
I've been busy this winter also in the brass dept with a number of PFM NKP Berks - I think a lot of modelers don't realize the amount of time it takes to bring one of these older brass imports up to speed so to speak just to install a modern sound board. Many of the older models were built with the 5 pole Pitman open frame style motor with a stall loading of 4-5 amps - instant death to the low amperage sound modules of today. Re-motoring usually requires installation of a higher ratio gearbox due to the higher rpm range of the newer can or flat can motors. Installing the new gearbox means splitting the drive axle to install the new drive axle gear which now requires re-quartering not only the drive axle but all of the driver sets to insure all have the same degree of quartering. Add in insulating the motor from any electrical contact with the frame( which may require a different style of motor mount), drilling the tender floor for the speaker installation, planning/installing any wire runs for lighting and its easy to see why a lot of collector's and modelers end up with a lot of pretty shelf queens. My hat is off to you Tom to continuing the "struggle". My only question - why WOW vs Tsunami?

Doug

ReadingBob

It is a pretty loco (I had the privilege of seeing it in person on Saturday).  It'll be fun to follow along with the transformation.  Definitely not something I'd ever think of taking on.   :o
Bob Butts
robertbutts1@att.net

There's a fine line between Hobby and Mental Illness.

ACL1504

Quote from: BandOGuy on February 22, 2020, 07:51:10 PM

Late to the party, but I'll post my guess answer any way.
It's definitely not a Jersey Central loco despite the super heater mount. The give away is the non-anthracite firebox. I'll wait on what it really is.
Now I've got to rush down stairs and give this rascal by ESP all the yet undiscovered problems my modest brass fleet has. Then Tom can tell all of us how he solved those problem.
After while! (Later is all ready taken).

Chip,

The loco is a Duluth, Missabe & Northern. Tom Boyd identified it correctly.

Tom ;D
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

ACL1504

Quote from: NKP768 on February 24, 2020, 10:31:12 AM
Hi Tom,
I've been busy this winter also in the brass dept with a number of PFM NKP Berks - I think a lot of modelers don't realize the amount of time it takes to bring one of these older brass imports up to speed so to speak just to install a modern sound board. Many of the older models were built with the 5 pole Pitman open frame style motor with a stall loading of 4-5 amps - instant death to the low amperage sound modules of today. Re-motoring usually requires installation of a higher ratio gearbox due to the higher rpm range of the newer can or flat can motors. Installing the new gearbox means splitting the drive axle to install the new drive axle gear which now requires re-quartering not only the drive axle but all of the driver sets to insure all have the same degree of quartering. Add in insulating the motor from any electrical contact with the frame( which may require a different style of motor mount), drilling the tender floor for the speaker installation, planning/installing any wire runs for lighting and its easy to see why a lot of collector's and modelers end up with a lot of pretty shelf queens. My hat is off to you Tom to continuing the "struggle". My only question - why WOW vs Tsunami?

Doug


Doug,

Over the years I've made all the repairs you discussed above. Re-quartering a driver is perhaps the very most critical aspect of any brass repair other than a correctly geared gear box. You get this wrong and you get a badly running piece of brass.

As you mentioned, this motor will have to be isolated from the frame in order for the DCC to correctly perform. This is a KEY import and has a large Canon can motor, probably 25X40mm in size. I'll know more when the boiler is removed.

I have 6 shelf babies and all but this one have WOW but need painting. I have two painted that need DCC. I've reduced my brass stock to about 38.

Working on brass isn't for the faint of heart as it takes a little special knowledge and some ability to disassemble one and put all 50-60 pieces back in the correct place.

Now, for the big question. I'll be polite here and hopefully brief as well. TCS WOW vs. Soundtraxx Tsunami.

At one time I had over 45 Tsunami DCC decoders installed in brass and Walthers P2K diesels. Of course this was in the early stages of Tsunami Sound. The steam whistles in the Light, Medium, Heavy and later Southern were in essence crap. You got 7 different whistles and 5 were no good. I had several issues with many of the Tsunami decoders and got virtually no tech support from them. And, I'm being polite here. This was all pre TCS WOW and the Soundtraxx Economi. I felt like Soundtraxx didn't want to back the product.

When WOW DCC decoders hit the market, I made a total 100% change from Tsunami to WOW DCC decoders. I've never had one bad experience with the folks at TCS and that says a lot for me. The WOW sound is far superior to Tsunami and is much more versatile as well. I could go on and on but TCS is what I use now.

To date I have 110 TSC WOW decoders in my brass and P2K diesels. The junk Tsunami decoders were sold on Ebay of $35.00 each. Suprisingly they sold like hot cakes.

Tom 8)
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

ACL1504

Quote from: ReadingBob on February 24, 2020, 10:45:52 AM
It is a pretty loco (I had the privilege of seeing it in person on Saturday).  It'll be fun to follow along with the transformation.  Definitely not something I'd ever think of taking on.   :o


Bob,

Thanks for following along on this one. It will be a fun ride for those not doing the work. 8) 8)

Tom ;D
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

NKP768

Thanks for your input Tom. I'm fairly new to sound decoder installation but have installed a number of NSC motor controllers so I appreciate your views on the WOW vs . Soundtraxx. I've only installed the Tsunamis and luckily have only had one issue (self inflicted)
so my contact with them has been some what limited. I will be following along.

Doug

ACL1504

Quote from: NKP768 on February 26, 2020, 11:24:23 AM
Thanks for your input Tom. I'm fairly new to sound decoder installation but have installed a number of NSC motor controllers so I appreciate your views on the WOW vs . Soundtraxx. I've only installed the Tsunamis and luckily have only had one issue (self inflicted)
so my contact with them has been some what limited. I will be following along.

Doug


Doug,

Go to the Soundtraxx and TCS sites and listen to the sounds. You'll be very surprised how much better the WOW is to Tsunami.

Tom ;D
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com


ACL1504

This morning I removed the boiler from the frame. Different manufacturers had their own preference on how they produced the model and this dictated how the boiler was removed on their particular model.

On this model, Key Imports made it very simple. After turning over the model, you want to remove the front (pilot) and the rear (trailing) trucks.



More in a few. I can tell I'm going to need a Diet Pepsi to nurse on during this portion. :P
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

ACL1504

I removed the pilot truck as shown below. Note the screw opening on the forward portion of the frame base plate.



In addition to holding the pilot in place, this screw also holds the base plate onto the frame. This screw should be reattached to the loco frame.

The trailing truck was removed next. It isn't necessary to replace this screw. You can see the end of the base frame has a tapped screw opening for this on an extended portion of the base. You can put the screw back on if you think you may lose it. ???




More in a few.
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

ACL1504

Now its time to remove the boiler from the loco frame.

In the next photo you can see a small screw where the red pencil tip is pointed.  This screw goes down through the steam chest and into the bottom of the boiler. Remove this screw. Also note the front truck screw has been screwed back in.



Under the cab, there are usually two screws holding the cab onto the frame. Remove these two screw also.



Continuied -

"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

ACL1504

Now you can remove the boiler from the frame. On many brass locos you need to move and wiggle the frame assembly  slightly in order to remove the boiler shell.

On this loco, I turned it "wheels up".



I then carefully removed the frame assembly from the boiler as shown.



Notice I'm holding the frame assembly by the sides of the steam chest or steam cylinder housing if you prefer. You certainly want to avoid grabbing the sides of the side rods and eccentric crank. Bending these is a recipe for a later disaster.

More in a few.
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

ACL1504

You can set the boiler/cab assembly aside for now. I noticed the two water pipes hanging from the bottom of the smoke box. These two brass water pipes come from the Elesco Feedwater Heater. You don't want to bend or break one of these off. If you do, then you'll need to use all your soldering skills to make the necessary repair.



I just placed the boiler on some foam so I don't have to take time later in a solder repair.



Again, you can also just lay the boiler on its side.

Continued -
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

ACL1504

This loco has had some extra weight installed. Normally all brass locos come with a small block or cylinder of lead that crews into the bottom of the boiler. The photo below shows where the screw would have been installed to hold the boiler weight.



The next photo shows the extra weight in the boiler. This is a lot of weight. This is good and this is bad. It is good as the loco will pull many more cars and I don't have to add any myself.

It is bad because the extra will put more wear on the chrome plated drivers.



So, when finished with all the testing, painting and etc. this loco will have a limited amount of time pulling cars on the Atlantic and Southern RR, meaning simply we won't be running it all the time.

Continued -
"If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
Thomas Jefferson

Tom Langford
telsr1@aol.com

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