Full function signal system

[DACS]

Ok, my apologies.  I was only trying to help those who want an operating signal system on their layouts.  It was not my intent to confuse anyone.
It is a building block system, built one at a time.  Like looking at a bundle of wires can be very confusing.  How could I ever do that?  If you run one wire at a time, it is not longer confusing.
I have heard many model railers voice that they would love to have an operating signal system on their layouts.   I was going to show how to construct the boards, build the signals, commercial ones are way to expensive if you haven't noticed.
This was and is a very inexpensive system to build and it is really satisfying to see your trains running up/down the line, with the signals doing their thing.
Perhaps I was overthinking it all.
So, I removed the thread.  Perhaps, when I am able to explain it in easier terms, I will retry.  Till then, I removed the thread.
Again, it was not my intent to confuse.

Dave
Seattle

[GPdemayo]

Dave,


When it comes to electrical stuff, some of us are easily confused.....not your fault. You are right, many of us would like a functioning signal system, but it does get complicated.


I look forward to your future attempt.....simple is good for those of us that are a little thick headed. 

[deemery]

It's unfortunate you removed the thread.  Don't take some discouraging comments as reflecting the "silent majority" of those of us who read many more posts than they comment on.


dave

[DACS]

I wil be redoing the thread.  Just going to try and approach it from another direction.  If I can't, then I may just assume that whoever is reading it, knows what's going on.

Dave
Seattle

[ACL1504]

Dave,

I enjoyed reading what you were doing and I didn't mean to offend you and I certainly wasn't offended. I'm very weak when it comes to what you and Bob were talking about.

I'm using the Digitrax signaling system and I'm confused over that as well. Like you said one wire at a time.

Tom

[ACL1504]

It's unfortunate you removed the thread.  Don't take some discouraging comments as reflecting the "silent majority" of those of us who read many more posts than they comment on.


dave

Dave,

It wasn't my intent to discourage Dave and his thread. I just made a comment that some of us may be confused but it didn't mean we weren't interested.

Tom

[donatode]

I was looking forward to following this thread as I also was wanting a signaling system for my "eventual" layout.  I am a novice to all of this and completely dumb as a doorknob when it comes to electronics.  BUT, if I can see with my eyes what needs to be done, then I CAN do it....

[DACS]

I was and am not discouraged.  Nor am I offended.  I have never taught electronics, though I have studied it extensively.  With the comments that were coming in,
it appeared I needed to back off, regroup and try again. 
It really is not as hard as it looks.  But,  I believe my explanation of it, was making it look and feel difficult.
When something is easy for a person, that has a tendency to enter into the explanation.  It makes it very difficult for someone, who doesn't know anything about it.
So, it is coming back.  I am just regrouping and sorting it all out.

Dave
Seattle

[Janbouli]

Thank you Dave , I hope you can do it again in Electronics for Dummies style , but I also know how it is to teach something that is very basic and natural to yourself. I have never been able to teach English to Dutch people for the simple fact that I am not capable of explaining things that are logical and natural to me.

[deemery]

Thank you Dave , I hope you can do it again in Electronics for Dummies style , but I also know how it is to teach something that is very basic and natural to yourself. I have never been able to teach English to Dutch people for the simple fact that I am not capable of explaining things that are logical and natural to me.

I once heard the Dutch Language described as a cross between English, German, and a very bad head cold :-)   ("logical" is not a term I'd apply to English grammar, let alone English spelling.)


dave

[martin.ojaste]

I was very interested. I have a degree in Electronic Control Theory and spent 13 years in the design of specialized computer controls, but that was 30 years ago and I found it refreshing to see what you had done. As I said before it brought back memories and interest on how you were or had solved the train signal control issue. With advances in electronics and PLAs I have it on my list of things to renew in the next few years. Give us details of what you did, dummying down does not benefit anyone and for the ones who did not understand, they are unlikely to ever implement. The ones with the desire should get all the benefits in your thread.


Ok, Take Two CLACK!

[jbvb]

I am in fact about 1/4 done signaling my layout using one 4PDT relay per power turnout, with a mix of Chubb DCODs and Olin's Depot OC-1s, using Circuitron SD-3s to drive Oregon Rail Supply bipolar LED searchlights.  I've got a thread going on RR-line.  So I'm curious about how you'd do it.

[DACS]

James

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond.  I kept trying but it seems the only coming up was facebook.  No way to reply.  Finally found the reason.

Would I be assuming too much to believe you are using the relays to route your signal indications to Normal and Reverse?
The system I built uses digital logic to do this function.  The only mechanical connection to make it do the same thing as relays, is a mini relay (dpdt) to drive the logic either high or low.
The only thing the relay causes either a low (true) or high (false)...don't forget, I am talking about negative logic here...input at either one of two gates inputs.
It is not used to route the signal indications.

Dave

Seattle

[DACS]

This pic, crude as it is, shows the shorthand for a left hand turnout.



This pic shows the gate logic in the 74LS32 TTL and the gate logic in the 74LS08, that are on each turnout signal routing board.  With the inputs and outputs labeled the same as on the shorthand.
The original design was by James Kyle.  These turnout logic boards, gave me some real trouble in the beginning.  The original design was mispinned and labeled.  Using the same chips as the original, I had to redesign it.  One pin off and the whole thing is useless.  It had outputs as inputs and inputs as outputs...




Thinking vertically is hard enough, but normal.  Horizontal thinking (negative logic), is another animal entirely.  But that is exactly what makes this system work so well.

Dave

Seattle

[jbvb]

Dave, I am using the relay to follow the state of the turnout.  That way I only need one normally open contact on the switch machine or whatever is running it.

I'm using ground as the 'active' level on my 'occupied' circuits because that's what the DCOD generates and the SD-3 wants as input.  So if a turnout is against a route, the 'occupied' feed to the SD-3 operating the corresponding signal is grounded.  I use diodes when I want to keep a turnout's position from affecting signals which don't care about it, like those governing facing point movements.

In most cases I only need four circuits along each block, because the Stop (Red) terminal of a given signal driver is connected to the Caution (Yellow) aspect of the signal to the rear.  I do have to switch the Caution lead with turnout position for bi-directional double track, but my prototype and era didn't have much Rule 261 territory - my layout only has four blocks of bi-directional double track.

This link brings you into the middle of my build.  The circuit diagrams are for the Rule 251 (current of traffic Automatic Block) section I have mostly finished.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=45342&whichpage=3