A few weeks ago I showed the picture below and said it was going to be the next brass project. Well, that was 3 or 4 locos ago.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316182405.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316182405.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316182418.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316182418.jpeg)
Sometimes things are just better off left alone. This could be said of this loco but I wanted to repaint it to reflect the proper color (white) for the ACL herald and stripes. The Judge and I purchased the loco from Howard Zane last year just prior to the EXPO.
The loco is a very old Akane USRA 2-10-2. I can't tell if it's a 1963 or 1968 model of the Santa Fe type. The center driver is blind, meaning the driver doesn't have a flange on the tire. The loco has a DCC Tsunami decoder installed. And, I must say the loco runs very smooth and sounds good but the chuff is a little to weak for my liking. I said it sounds good but the sound could be better. I plan to have the TCS WOW sound installed.
Upon disassembly, I found many problems and some strange wiring as well.
I'm not sure yet if this sow can be turned into a silk purse! 8) 8) 8)
Continued in a few.
I was going to add this loco to the other brass thread but this one deserves a thread of it's own.
I got a little ahead of myself and neglected to get a few pictures of some of the "tear down" process. I'll cover it in part later in the thread.
To start with, the sound was directed up through the coal load instead of down through the tender. The next two pictures show you the coal load and speaker. The coal load was glued to a piece of styrene and holes were drilled through the styrene and coal load. There weren't enough holes for the sound to escape.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316183939.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316183950.jpeg)
I'll drill holes in the bottom of the tender for better sound.
I started taking the loco apart and things started to go wrong from that point. I'll continued the thread on Thursday night. Now for some Florida politics.
I categorically deny that I ever performed any wiring repairs on that Engine :-X :P :-X :P
Jim
Quote from: jimmillho on March 16, 2016, 11:53:40 PM
I categorically deny that I ever performed any wiring repairs on that Engine :-X :P :-X :P
Jim
Jim,
I agree, this definitely is not your work. 8) 8) 8) 8) A blind man could have done better. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tom ;D
Tom
It looks like you have a project with this one. Good luck - I will be following along.
I got an up close look at this one in it's disassembled state last night. Yikes! :o However I'm confident that Tom will rise to the occasion and knock this one out of the park! :D
Quote from: S&S RR on March 18, 2016, 09:28:02 AM
Tom
It looks like you have a project with this one. Good luck - I will be following along.
John,
Thanks for stopping by. This one is definitely a project loco. Hopefully it will all come together.
Tom ;D
Quote from: ReadingBob on March 18, 2016, 02:15:10 PM
I got an up close look at this one in it's disassembled state last night. Yikes! :o However I'm confident that Tom will rise to the occasion and knock this one out of the park! :D
Bob,
I enjoyed our visit last evening as always. I'm happy you have more confidence in me than I do my self for this one. I can make it look good but getting it to run is something all together different.
Tom ;D
It seems like every driver and tender wheel had some sort of electrical pickup on them. Here is the loco and all the contacts. I removed most of the contacts prior to the photo but you get the idea.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-180316185018.jpeg)
Pretty much clean on the bottom though.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-180316185031.jpeg)
Continued in a few.
The tender truck wheels had contact wipers on each of the eight wheels.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-180316185044.jpeg)
These were all removed from the tender trucks.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-180316185058.jpeg)
Between the contact wires and the sound, there was a bunch of wires.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-180316185131.jpeg)
I can just feel the "I'm gonna nuke that intermittent contact problem from ORBIT!!!" vibe radiating from that chassis. Looks reasonably well thought out, though.
That "bunch of wires" photo almost looks like the tubes from a blown-up boiler (low water explosion)
dave
Quote from: jbvb on March 19, 2016, 12:08:27 AM
I can just feel the "I'm gonna nuke that intermittent contact problem from ORBIT!!!" vibe radiating from that chassis. Looks reasonably well thought out, though.
James,
It was very well thought out. It was probably done when we used DC analog sound. Wipers were an excellent way to get better running from the older brass at the time. When the DCC was installed my guess is that the decision was made just to leave it.
Tom ;D
Quote from: deemery on March 19, 2016, 11:20:41 AM
That "bunch of wires" photo almost looks like the tubes from a blown-up boiler (low water explosion)
dave
Dave,
I agree.
Tom ;D
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184645.png)
These are all the wires and wipers that came off the loco wheels.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-180316185144.jpeg)
The loco was fitted with a superior Swiss motor. I didn't realize it was this small until I removed the boiler. The loco easily pulled 17 cars and a brass caboose with no problem. Plus it has a universal joint instead of the rubber friction coupling. No doubt this is a big reason it has such great pulling power.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-180316185201.jpeg)
I had to go in through the stabilizer bracket to get to the screw to remove it.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-180316185214.jpeg)
Continued in a few.
After removing the smoke box front, I removed the front marker lights.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184017.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184017.jpeg)
I also found a part of the collar on the inside unsoldered. The collar is important as it hold the smoke box on the front of the boiler.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184031.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184031.jpeg)
I removed the bell.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184057.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184057.jpeg)
More in a few.
I removed the light and then gave the smoke box front a bath in Acetone to remove the paint.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184112.jpeg)
I polished the area to be soldered.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184131.jpeg)
I used small needle nose pliers to hold the part to be soldered. I used a small clamp to hold the pliers. Very Rube Goldberg of me!
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184145.jpeg)
Continued in a few.
To continue my Rube Goldberg theme, I used a large clamp to hold the small clamp that holds the small pliers that hold the smoke box front. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184200.jpeg)
In the next photo you can see the small piece of Tix solder. I used the Micro-Mark butane torch to melt the solder.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184214.jpeg)
And, now the smoke box front is repaired.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184227.jpeg)
Continued in a few.
At this point, all the loco parts have been stripped of paint after a bath in Acetone.
When it came to the frame, I found a few new challenges.
The pilot was actually epoxied to the loco frame. I removed all the epoxy and dug through my spare stash of loco screws and found two to replace the missing screws.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184249.jpeg)
The steam chest, support bracket and crosshead were all soldered to the frame and each other. I've never seen this before and usually the steam chest, brackets and crosshead all are screwed to the frame and can be removed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184300.jpeg)
Continued in a few.
The solder was cracked/broken where it was soldered to the frame. I used the torch to resolder both sides to the frame.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184317.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184335.jpeg)
The pumps on the side of the boiler all came off in the Acetone bath. The air pipes in front of the pumps also came off. These were epoxied on as well. I tacked them in place with a drop oif super glue and then the next day used the tip of the solder gun to resolder them.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-190316184347.jpeg)
The whistle was just a piece of turned brass stock so I replaced it with a new Cal Scale whistle.
Its almost like you are re-making the local from scratch. Pretty neat thread though.
Tom, You could have just bought all the parts and built your own Engine. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Jim
Quote from: martin.ojaste on March 19, 2016, 08:57:38 PM
Its almost like you are re-making the local from scratch. Pretty neat thread though.
Martin,
Thanks for stopping by. I fell like I'm scratch building this one all over again. Thank you for the kind support.
Tom ;D
Quote from: jimmillho on March 20, 2016, 11:13:37 AM
Tom, You could have just bought all the parts and built your own Engine. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Jim
SBG Jim,
I appreciate you stopping by. Yes, and it probably would have been less hassle.
Tom ;D
Well, as you have probably guessed the repairs continue.
This time, it's the tender front deck.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151229.jpeg)
I cleaned all the pieces and soldered it back in place.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151248.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151259.jpeg)
Okay, on to the next repair.
I don't know if the next one is my fault or not. One of the front steps was missing. I noticed this after the Acetone bath. I looked everywhere. I also strain the Acetone back into the can in case a small part came off.
Anyway, I got tired of looking so I made another one. I used the other original step as a template. I found a short piece of brass stock the same thickness as the original. I'll just fast forward here and show you the new step. The new one is on the right.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151315.jpeg)
There is no tread on the steps or rivets on the sides but who will notice?
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151327.jpeg)
Well, it even fits. YEA!
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151338.jpeg)
Continued in a few.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151351.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151410.jpeg)
Yepper, it looks good to me!
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151433.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151446.jpeg)
More in a few.
If someone feels a need to count those rivets, you could install them after priming but before final painting using rivet decals.
dave
Back to the tender.
The front truck bolster on the tender came off. I cleaned the pieces and used the torch to resolder it back in place.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151422.jpeg)
I also had to resolder a few of the tender hand rails.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-200316151458.jpeg)
This should be in "Ripley's Believe it or Not" but there are no more repairs needed on this baby. It's off to the paint shop.
Amen brother!
Quote from: deemery on March 20, 2016, 03:31:14 PM
If someone feels a need to count those rivets, you could install them after priming but before final painting using rivet decals.
dave
Dave,
If I see a rivet counter or one even mentions the missing rivets, I'll give them a swift rivet in the derriere. And, a hot one at that!!!!
Tom ;D
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 20, 2016, 03:37:24 PM
Quote from: deemery on March 20, 2016, 03:31:14 PM
If someone feels a need to count those rivets, you could install them after priming but before final painting using rivet decals.
dave
Dave,
If I see a rivet counter or one even mentions the missing rivets, I'll give them a swift rivet in the derriere. And, a hot one at that!!!!
Tom ;D
That would be a riveting experience!
dave
Quote from: deemery on March 20, 2016, 06:47:57 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 20, 2016, 03:37:24 PM
Quote from: deemery on March 20, 2016, 03:31:14 PM
If someone feels a need to count those rivets, you could install them after priming but before final painting using rivet decals.
dave
Dave,
If I see a rivet counter or one even mentions the missing rivets, I'll give them a swift rivet in the derriere. And, a hot one at that!!!!
Tom ;D
That would be a riveting experience!
dave
I just knew this was gonna happen .....
(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi16.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb36%2FHorsellCommon%2Fscan0002-1.jpg&hash=320eba05cd30479291ee87a62bee112fcf6e760e)
Quote from: deemery on March 20, 2016, 06:47:57 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 20, 2016, 03:37:24 PM
Quote from: deemery on March 20, 2016, 03:31:14 PM
If someone feels a need to count those rivets, you could install them after priming but before final painting using rivet decals.
dave
Dave,
If I see a rivet counter or one even mentions the missing rivets, I'll give them a swift rivet in the derriere. And, a hot one at that!!!!
Tom ;D
That would be a riveting experience!
dave
Dave,
You are correct.
Tom ;D
Quote from: Donato on March 20, 2016, 09:28:45 PM
Quote from: deemery on March 20, 2016, 06:47:57 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 20, 2016, 03:37:24 PM
Quote from: deemery on March 20, 2016, 03:31:14 PM
If someone feels a need to count those rivets, you could install them after priming but before final painting using rivet decals.
dave
Dave,
If I see a rivet counter or one even mentions the missing rivets, I'll give them a swift rivet in the derriere. And, a hot one at that!!!!
Tom ;D
That would be a riveting experience!
dave
I just knew this was gonna happen .....
(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi16.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb36%2FHorsellCommon%2Fscan0002-1.jpg&hash=320eba05cd30479291ee87a62bee112fcf6e760e) (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b36/HorsellCommon/scan0002-1.jpg)
Donato,
It was only a matter of time on this one, right?
Tom ;D
I got the loco painted and now I'm in the "put back together" mode.
The drivers and side rods were put on first.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-210316161425.jpeg)
Next came the main rod and eccentric crank.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-210316161441.jpeg)
Here is the bottom view of all the rods and stuff.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-210316161453.jpeg)
Luckily for me it is still as smooth on the glass as it was prior to disassembly.
The loco is looking good, thanks for all the photos of your fantastic work.
Quote from: Twopoint2 on March 21, 2016, 08:27:02 PM
The loco is looking good, thanks for all the photos of your fantastic work.
Jim,
You are very welcome. And, thank you for the kind words. Enjoy the photos that follow.
Tom ;D
Remember this beast folks?
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316182405.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316182418.jpeg)
Well, it's finished with the exception of weathering, DCC sound and coal load.
Continued in a few.
I used Scalecoat Graphite and Oil on the smoke box and fire box. I also applied the correct color of white on the steam chest for the standard ACL double box stripping.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151041.jpeg)
The whistle cord will be added after the sound installation.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151055.jpeg)
Continued in a few.
The tender also received the correct decaling of white stripes and herald instead of the silver that was on the old paint job. The ACL R!, 4-8-4 Northern was the only ACL loco with silver stripes and herald.
She also received a new number of 2016 in place of the 2018.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151108.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151108.jpeg)
The usual crew and cab curtains were added. The curtains will look more natural once weathered.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151123.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151123.jpeg)
More in a few.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151155.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151208.jpeg)
Before -
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316182405.jpeg)
And after -
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151208.jpeg)
Before -
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150316182418.jpeg)
And after -
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250316151155.jpeg)
Tom, The loco looks great, but shouldn't there be rivets on the front step? ::) ::)
Quote from: Raymo on March 25, 2016, 07:45:00 PM
Tom, The loco looks great, but shouldn't there be rivets on the front step? ::) ::)
Dan,
I got the hot rivet right here for you! However, thank you for the kind support of the brass repairs and painting.
Tom ;D
Sorry but Someone had to say it. ;D
The very old locomotive looks great Tom. After reading your posts, I guess it should be buyer beware when purchasing an old locomotive from Ebay or some other unseen merchandise source on the internet.
Sometimes old used brass is worn out or damaged, sometimes it just wasn't 'ready to run' straight from the factory. There were a lot of good articles on fixing and improving brass in 1970s MRs, which can often be had for the carrying away.
I've done some brass repair and I'm not afraid of it, but I don't have Tom's experience. It's interesting looking at the suite of tools & techniques he uses. I haven't used a torch on brass, I'm more comfortable with resistance soldering. And the acetone soak to get rid of paint & epoxy is a good idea - not that acetone is super safe, but I know exactly what it is, which can't be said for many commercial strippers.
Quote from: Raymo on March 25, 2016, 08:02:26 PM
Sorry but Someone had to say it. ;D
Dan,
Yep, I agree. But I still have the hot rivets handy in case you feel the need. Sizzle sizzle!
Tom ;D
Quote from: sdrees on March 25, 2016, 08:24:27 PM
The very old locomotive looks great Tom. After reading your posts, I guess it should be buyer beware when purchasing an old locomotive from Ebay or some other unseen merchandise source on the internet.
Steve,
Very kind support for the old brass repaint, thank you. I agree with you on the Ebay and other sites. Buyer beware for sure.
Tom ;D
Quote from: jbvb on March 25, 2016, 10:07:42 PM
Sometimes old used brass is worn out or damaged, sometimes it just wasn't 'ready to run' straight from the factory. There were a lot of good articles on fixing and improving brass in 1970s MRs, which can often be had for the carrying away.
I've done some brass repair and I'm not afraid of it, but I don't have Tom's experience. It's interesting looking at the suite of tools & techniques he uses. I haven't used a torch on brass, I'm more comfortable with resistance soldering. And the acetone soak to get rid of paint & epoxy is a good idea - not that acetone is super safe, but I know exactly what it is, which can't be said for many commercial strippers.
James,
Ah, the 70's and lots of brass articles in the mags. That was when brass was King. I would have used the resistance soldering on this one but I couldn't get it working so I used the torch, in a good way. Although this one could easily be scrapped.
Thanks for the very kind words on my work and for stopping by.
Tom ;D
Tom
I'm reading through your brass locomotive threads with great interest. I keep thinking about all those brass locomotives on Howard Zane's layout. He must have a team working on those things.
Quote from: S&S RR on March 26, 2016, 05:55:46 PM
Tom
I'm reading through your brass locomotive threads with great interest. I keep thinking about all those brass locomotives on Howard Zane's layout. He must have a team working on those things.
John,
Thanks for checking in. At our last visit to Howard's, I counted 116 brass locos on the layout. He does have two guys that do all the DCC and repairs for him. He once told me that when the layout was small, he did his own painting.
He does all the scenery and structures. He has others help with track and electronics.
Must be nice.
Tom ;D