Let the games begin. Here is the kit I will be building for the challenge. I bought this kit a number of years ago and plan to use it as part of a residential area on my layout, the Superior & Seattle RR. Layout build location picture to follow.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916182021.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916182021.jpeg)
I just checked C. C. Crows website and this kit is still available. It is officially called "The White Stone Church". I'm not sure mine will be white.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916200800.gif)
This is from the C. C. Crow website if your interested.
THE WHITE STONE CHURCH
Construction of the White Stone Church was featured in the December 1992 and January 1993 issues of Mainline Modeler. The walls are my Hand-Carved Stone -fine and the Cedar Shake roof is cast in White Hydrocal as well with all the detail but none of the labor of hand-laying them. I've done all that hard work for you (yes, shingle-by-shingle!) and then made molds.
I've also made colorful hand-tinted scale stained glass to fit Grandt Lines gothic windows.
While there is no specific prototype for this model, it will fit into almost any layout- up on a hillside over looking the farmlands or half hidden on a busy city street.
Assembly couldn't be easier. The wall castings can be left pure white, or maybe lightly stained. If you want you can color them naturally and instructions are given for that. Lightly stain the shingles light gray, paint the window frames green and attach the stained glass, then glue it together.
Comes with Basket Weave front steps.
Complete instructions with coloring and weathering tips are included.
40' x 24' ( 5-1/2" x 3-1/4" ) in HO scale.
John, leave it white, it will save you from painting it.
Quote from: ak-milw on September 14, 2016, 07:38:40 PM
John, leave it white, it will save you from painting it.
Well, that would be quick. I'm making a few sample walls to do some testing.
In the tradition of a detailed build thread. Here is what I found when I opened the box.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916182143.jpeg)
First item out of the box. The instructions.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916201832.jpeg)
One of the things I do for every build is take pictures of the instructions with my phone. I can then read them when I'm away from the workbench and have some time to read. I also use my iPad to zoom in on areas and make them big enough to read while I work. It really works nice, especially when the instructions are on big sheets of paper. It is also helpful when the templates are part of the big sheets and you have them under your glass plate for gluing. I will include each of the three pages here if you would like to read along.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916201910.jpeg)
Instructions Page 2:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916201952.jpeg)
Instructions Page 3:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202025.jpeg)
As we dig deeper into the box we find the two side wall castings, the window castings, and a packet with Durham's Water Putty.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202120.jpeg)
Next out, the two end walls. The castings in this kit are exceptional. I'm looking at them with a 20 power glass to find defects. Very nice work.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202248.jpeg)
Next, the roof castings. Cedar shingle hydrocal castings. This is going to be very interesting. Can I color them to look like cedar shingles?
Note: Make some test castings to try. If this works I can see an number of scratch build structures using these castings.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202323.jpeg)
The steeple roof casting.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202401.jpeg)
The steeple is made of three castings - here is the middle one.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202436.jpeg)
Next out of the box is the third and largest steeple casting and some strip wood.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202539.jpeg)
This next casting is the steps for the front of the church.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202508.jpeg)
Finally, in the bottom of the box I found the stain glass for the windows.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916202612.jpeg)
Very cool kit. I like the stained glass. You don't see a ton of CC Crow kits built.
-Steve
The first challenge for me with this build is going to be to choose the colors for the stones and trim. I started my build by making two molds so I can play with coloring the castings to help make this decision. As I'm catching up with this thread, the molds are curing for these two castings.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916205509.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916205509.jpeg)
Quote from: SteveCuster on September 14, 2016, 08:51:56 PM
Very cool kit. I like the stained glass. You don't see a ton of CC Crow kits built.
-Steve
Hi Steve
Yes, it is a cool kit. I currently have three of the C.C. Crow kits in on my build list. And I see an order going out for a couple more after seeing the quality of his castings and what he offers on his website.
Here are the other two that I own.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916210038.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-140916210100.jpeg)
My first reaction when I saw the quality of the castings in this kit was to do a double build by duplicating it. I have another spot in mind for a modified version of this kit. If you do an economic analysis of creating the casting for this kit I would have more money in the mold materials than the price of another $60 kit, which also would includes the window castings and stain glass. So I'm going make molds for just a couple of the castings that I know will get used on multiple scratch build projects and buy another kit if I want to go forward with a duplicate. So tomorrow, my molds will be ready for some hydrocal pours - and the build will begin. I will be trying many different coloring schemes before I color the original castings from the kit. I'm not sure about the all white option. I want this church to look like it was built using the materials available locally in the mountain scene it will be part of.
Cool kit.
Jaime
Narrow Gauge Convention photos (http://www.narrowperspective.com)
Quote from: NEMMRRC on September 14, 2016, 09:48:07 PM
Cool kit.
Jaime
Narrow Gauge Convention photos (http://www.narrowperspective.com)
Thanks for stopping by Jaime - I hope I do it justice.
John,
I'll be following along also.
Tom ;D
Hi John,
Very cool looking kit! It'll be fun to follow along with this one.
Good idea to make a mold so you can try different coloring/weathering techniques before building the kit.
Jeff
I'll be watching, John.
I've often looked at these kits and considered buying one. Did CC Crow buy this mold from RDA? The tower and peaked roof look identical to the ones on my Hermanson's mill. Could you do me a favour and measure the height of those entry stairs - just one of the rises? Looking forward to watching this one come together.
Cheers, Mark.
I agree , great kit from a manufacturer I haven't seen anything from yet, and a material we don't see often either.
Well I have a story to tell. To start with this build is in recovery mode. One of the roof castings now looks like this.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-150916183144.jpeg)
Here is what the casting looked like when I removed the artist board.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-150916192356.jpeg)
I was working at my other workbench just after I poured this mold. I actually heard this casting crack. I have been making molds for many years and I never had something like this happen. This casting actually failed in compression. The white you see in the mold is dust. I used the vacuum cleaner to remove it. There will be no gluing this one back together - large sections just turned to dust. I assume because of the stress that was applied to it during the cursing process. Yes, I know there is a typo in the last sentence but every time I type cursing my computer changes it to cursing so I'm going with it. It is probably the best word for this process anyway.
The mold material was the "new to me" Star 30. I made 6 molds with it all at once. 5 of the 6 molds turned out great. The one that didn't I will explain on my S&S RR layout build thread because that is where I have been posting the molding process discussion. This mold actually turned out great.
I bought this kit approximately 15 years ago and who knows how long it had been on the shelf. I don't think there was anything wrong with the casting other than being old and brittle. There was just enough pressure that it cracked - classic brittle failure for the Engineers out there. It was in dozens of pieces. It turned to dust along some of the crack lines. Not just a couple like you would expect if you bent the casting while removing it from the mold.
So - the casting gave it's life for this mold. I have 3 replacement hydrocal castings already made. I also have a resin casting going as I'm typing this. So the build will go on. By the way, I made molds from one of the end walls and one of the side walls without a problem. This whole thing started with wanting castings to practice on. And, I also have a plan for the two castings for another project.
The resin casting in the mold.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-150916195006.jpeg)
One of the hydrocal castings that I will use for practice.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-150916194840.jpeg)
Quote from: ReadingBob on September 15, 2016, 09:06:02 AM
Hi John,
Very cool looking kit! It'll be fun to follow along with this one.
Thanks Bob
I hope we have all the drama out of the way for this build.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on September 15, 2016, 01:49:24 PM
Good idea to make a mold so you can try different coloring/weathering techniques before building the kit.
Jeff
Thanks for following along - there was a time this afternoon when I wasn't to sure it was a good idea.
Quote from: mark dalrymple on September 15, 2016, 03:18:11 PM
I'll be watching, John.
I've often looked at these kits and considered buying one. Did CC Crow buy this mold from RDA? The tower and peaked roof look identical to the ones on my Hermanson's mill. Could you do me a favour and measure the height of those entry stairs - just one of the rises? Looking forward to watching this one come together.
Cheers, Mark.
Hi Mark
Thanks for following along. Yes - I will get you a measurement as soon as I go back into the train room to check on my resin castings.
I think C. C. Crow makes all his own castings and molds. Take a look at his we site cccrow.com
I don't know if there is a connection between him and RDA?
He does have Builder's in Scale listed on his website.
Quote from: Janbouli on September 15, 2016, 03:30:28 PM
I agree , great kit from a manufacturer I haven't seen anything from yet, and a material we don't see often either.
Jan
Thanks for following along. This is my first C.C. Crow build although I have a couple more kits in the cue to build. The castings look great.
Geez, I go away for a couple days and this goes from concept to excellent start to catastrophe to recovery!
(Speaking of shingle roof castings, Sylvan Scale Models did some really nice resin shingle roof pieces, if I remember right.)
dave
Quote from: deemery on September 15, 2016, 09:13:32 PM
Geez, I go away for a couple days and this goes from concept to excellent start to catastrophe to recovery!
(Speaking of shingle roof castings, Sylvan Scale Models did some really nice resin shingle roof pieces, if I remember right.)
dave
Thanks for stopping by Dave. I thought about those Sylvan roof pieces during my what is my recover plan time this afternoon. The mold is working great the castings look just like the original from the other side. I really like the resign castings - if I were to have to choose tonight that is what I would use for the build.
Every time I build one of the hydrocal kits I'm thinking what happens if I drop one - I never thought I would loose a casting like this.
John. A compression failure is not that common. I suspect the sillycone shrunk while curing. Glad you are getting good castings. What do you think of the Star 30?
Here is a picture of the hydrocal casting from the other side that came with the kit. A resin casting and the hydrocal duplicates that I made standing up.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-150916213906.jpeg)
Quote from: MartyO on September 15, 2016, 09:38:16 PM
John. A compression failure is not that common. I suspect the sillycone shrunk while curing. Glad you are getting good castings. What do you think of the Star 30?
Marty
The Star 30 material makes a great mold. I did run into another issue with it though. I will post a few pictures and explain on my S&S RR thread so everything on the mold materials is in one place.
I'm sure it was the shrinkage - and it does get warm during the curing process which could have expanded the hydrocal casting at the same time the mold was shrinking. Who knows but we have a recovery plan.
Mark
Here are your measurements. I did it in both metric and English - I wasn't sure what which you would prefer.
I gave you an overall measurement of all four steps and then one individual step. Let me know if this is what you needed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-150916213821.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-150916213752.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-150916213708.jpeg)
I ran the numbers and it's a 12.9 inch step in HO.
Hi John:
Looks like you have your work cut out for you. I have complete confidence that you will do well with this project. I'll be watching.
Karl
Quote from: postalkarl on September 16, 2016, 09:45:55 AM
Hi John:
Looks like you have your work cut out for you. I have complete confidence that you will do well with this project. I'll be watching.
Karl
Karl
Thanks for stoping by the thread - next step the colors.
Today, I made a few more castings. I will be ready to start playing with color combinations over the next few days. I know it will not be white - it just wouldn't look right in the area I plan on planting it on the layout. I have a couple ideas - now if I can get them to work on the castings.
Thanks John.
I actually thought the steps looked bigger than that - but even so - try walking up steps with nearly 13" rises! It seems to be a common problem with plaster kits. We have 8" steps coming down to our side door - and they are really on the outside limit. Typically the rises should be around 180mm or just over 7". That scales out to about 2mm in Ho scale. I don't know if there is anything you can do - but maybe it is something that manufacturers can look at? To me it is something that I notice instantly.
Having said that - I think it is a very interesting looking kit with some fabulous detail.
Cheers, Mark.
Hey John, I'll be following along as well on your build. Keep the progress photos coming!
Quote from: mark dalrymple on September 17, 2016, 01:33:19 AM
Thanks John.
I actually thought the steps looked bigger than that - but even so - try walking up steps with nearly 13" rises! It seems to be a common problem with plaster kits. We have 8" steps coming down to our side door - and they are really on the outside limit. Typically the rises should be around 180mm or just over 7". That scales out to about 2mm in Ho scale. I don't know if there is anything you can do - but maybe it is something that manufacturers can look at? To me it is something that I notice instantly.
Having said that - I think it is a very interesting looking kit with some fabulous detail.
Cheers, Mark.
Mark
I agree with you completely. I just put the number out there in my post to see if anyone else was thinking the same thing. I'm going to look at options but I think I'm locked in if I use the casting from the kit. In the location I'm placing the church on my layout, it will not be obvious (about 48 inches from the viewer). I believe the manufacturer went for a more robust casting and pushed the limits of prototypically accurate. I'm guessing this will be a great application for the Howard Zane HWAB technique. HWAB = HIDE IT WITH A BUSH.
Quote from: MAP on September 17, 2016, 06:36:44 AM
Hey John, I'll be following along as well on your build. Keep the progress photos coming!
Mark
Thanks for following along. I hope to have something to take a picture of soon!
I'm pouring castings for another build, and using the left over plaster and resign in the molds for this build, so I will have lots of test pieces. I really like having test pieces that are the same size and shape as the castings for the build. It really helps me to visualize the final look to the building. Rather than posting just the final decision piece - I will be posting pictures of the tests. Good and Bad. And the details of the process I use to get there. Let's see where this takes us??? ;)
HWAB - that made me laugh!
You could try making a mold, pouring a casting, and then cutting the various steps out, and shimming their bottoms until you get the desired rises. A bush would certainly be easier. There may be some kits in your storage wardrobe(s)/ spare room(s) (we can all dream!) with steps you can make a casting from.
Cheers, Mark.
Mark.
The optimum measurements for steps, given to me by an old framing carpenter, is 17 1/2" for a comfortable climb.
Most any mix of that, 9 1/2 by 8, for example is good. This is why walking up steps to a state house or Capitol building makes you take an extra step after three or four levels up.
That's in case anyone wanted to know!!!!!
See ya
Bob
I built custom wooden stairs carpenter for 7 years for various types of houses and conditions. I've built 1000's of simple straight stairs to complex curved mansion staircases. There is a geometric magic combination of tread depth, run (distance from riser to riser) and rise that makes walking up them comfortable.
Some examples,
- basic basement stairs with open risers, the treads 10", runs 8.0 - 8.5", rise 8"
- normal house stars with risers, treads 10", runs 8.25" - 8.5", rise 7.25 - 7.75"
- luxury house with risers, treads 12", runs 8.5-11", rise 7.0-7.5"
- mansions treads 12-15", runs 6-7", rise 6-7"
I found that the perfect combination is when the tread depth was big enough to fit a man's shoe climbing the stairs and a run big enough for a ladies high heel walking down the stairs without watching and being tired climbing or decending the staircase. My experience showed that,
- tread 11"
- run 9"
- rise 7 3/8"
For outside stairs, it depends on the number of rises,
- 4-6 rises, 8" rise, run 8", tread 9.5"
- 7-10 rises, 7.5" rise, run 8.25", tread 9.5"
- 10-16 rises, 7" ruse, run 8.5", tread 10"
A landing of 4+' should be after maximum of 16 rises.
This just based on my experiences and local building codes will/maybe different.
As for modeling and making our life as easy as possible,
- wooden stairs 8" tread, 8" run, 8" rise
- concrete stairs 9" tread, 9" run, 8" rise
- office building stairs 16" tread, 16" run, 6" rise
- brick stairs 13" tread, 13" run, 8" rise (based on standard brick/mortar sizes)
Note, the nosing are 0". If there are nosing add 2" to the tread, but not the run.)
I hope this helps and not confuses.
Quote from: MartyO on September 17, 2016, 05:54:19 PM
I built custom wooden stairs carpenter for 7 years for various types of houses and conditions. I've built 1000's of simple straight stairs to complex curved mansion staircases. There is a geometric magic combination of tread depth, run (distance from riser to riser) and rise that makes walking up them comfortable.
Some examples,
- basic basement stairs with open risers, the treads 10", runs 8.0 - 8.5", rise 8"
- normal house stars with risers, treads 10", runs 8.25" - 8.5", rise 7.25 - 7.75"
- luxury house with risers, treads 12", runs 8.5-11", rise 7.0-7.5"
- mansions treads 12-15", runs 6-7", rise 6-7"
I found that the perfect combination is when the tread depth was big enough to fit a man's shoe climbing the stairs and a run big enough for a ladies high heel walking down the stairs without watching and being tired climbing or decending the staircase. My experience showed that,
- tread 11"
- run 9"
- rise 7 3/8"
For outside stairs, it depends on the number of rises,
- 4-6 rises, 8" rise, run 8", tread 9.5"
- 7-10 rises, 7.5" rise, run 8.25", tread 9.5"
- 10-16 rises, 7" ruse, run 8.5", tread 10"
A landing of 4+' should be after maximum of 16 rises.
This just based on my experiences and local building codes will/maybe different.
As for modeling and making our life as easy as possible,
- wooden stairs 8" tread, 8" run, 8" rise
- concrete stairs 9" tread, 9" run, 8" rise
- office building stairs 16" tread, 16" run, 6" rise
- brick stairs 13" tread, 13" run, 8" rise (based on standard brick/mortar sizes)
Note, the nosing are 0". If there are nosing add 2" to the tread, but not the run.)
I hope this helps and not confuses.
Marty
Custom wood stairs ;) Now there's a thought. Thanks for the dimensions Marty. I played around with what the stairs today.
So I recruited a couple of my little people to test the steps. Mark has a very good eye. The steps are just about knee high for the little people. Like stepping on to the sofa I'm sitting on to type this for me.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-170916222629.jpeg)
I had the stair castings from George Sellios' Jacob's coal mounted for painting on my workbench so I set one up against the casting.
It turns out that the loading dock on George's kit is the same height as the door on the church so the casting fit. Six steps instead of 4.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-170916222543.jpeg)
John, if you get brave file off the top brick layer and recarve the brick onto the new surfaces. They would be near perfect.
So I can't hide this with a bush - tomorrow I'm going to make a mold and see if I can make a 5 or 6 step design by chopping up the castings. I like the brick detail on the top of the stairs so and would like to preserve it if I can. My fallback is going to be a custom wood stairs. I will never be happy with the model if I don't fix this. Good Eye Mark.
Quote from: MartyO on September 17, 2016, 10:36:08 PM
John, if you get brave file off the top brick layer and recarve the brick onto the new surfaces. They would be near perfect.
Marty
You are correct - the brick on the top - which looks great - is what caused the rise height problem. But I need more stairs to solve the problem.
My game plan is to make a duplicate casting and cut it into four steps - adjust the rise to 8 inches. Then I will add a 5th step and/or raise the ground level around the area to ramp up to the first step. It will be a bit of work but I think it will make the model much better. I will send a link to this build thread to C.C. Crow when I'm done to see if they want to change their design. Thanks again for your input. It is a build challenge after all.
John, depending on the effect you want, either add another large step to the bottom, or add a stoop step to the front door. This was very common to do. So when you cast the model, it will have all the steps in place to the right height and all you need to do is file off the existing brick.
Well, the mold box is ready for the pour. I have a plan that I think will work to fix the raise of the stairs and preserve the brick pattern in the top surface. 1) Make new castings 2)Cut the stairs out to be separate castings. 3) sand off the bottom to get 8 inch HO stars
4) Glue everything back together. 5) add a mound of dirt when I mount this to the base to make up the difference of needing another step.
I will probably switch to a resin casting to make the cutting work easier.
We will see how this works out.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-180916112818.jpeg)
Here is a couple pictures of the casting - trying to show the brick pattern - I know it's hard to see in all that white.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-180916114619.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-180916114643.jpeg)
Follow-up to our previous discussion on mold material shelf life. I found where Micr-Mart adds a shelf life date on their material.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-180916112919.jpeg)
The mold is made and I poured the first batch of hydrocal to see how it will work. The lines you see on the mold are from me tapping it with a putty knife. You can see how this brought a few air bubbles to the surface. I'm off onto another project for the rest of the day while the hydrocal cures.
I also ordered some more resin so I can give that a try in a few days. I just noticed that spell checker likes to change resin to resign. I wonder how many times of done that in the last few posts.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-180916142537.jpeg)
All the other molds you see in the background are for another project. I always have multiple projects going when I get out the hydrocal and/or resin. I have to admit that I'm leaning more and more towards resin castings. I like the durability and since I've switched to acrylic paints and powders to color my castings I can achieve the same coloring results with either material.
One point I would like to make again - making your own mold and castings is not cost affective unless your going to make and use a bunch of them. I made four molds with the last batch of material. Total mold cost $30. You have to use up the material once you open it, so I pulled ahead a few molds that I wanted to make because of the step issue.
Terrific build log, John (Sorry for your molding master mishap...)
Not sure how I'm just seeing this thread after five pages.
Recently, I've started down the path of creating masters, making molds, and casting them in Hydrocal. Been spending *a lot* of time on CC Crow's website lately. Also hunted down a copy of the Mainline Modeler issue with the "Masonry and Stonework" article by Jack Work.
This is all tremendously interesting stuff, I'm following along with much enthusiasm!
-Joe
Quote from: fotoflojoe on September 22, 2016, 11:22:27 AM
Terrific build log, John (Sorry for your molding master mishap...)
Not sure how I'm just seeing this thread after five pages.
Recently, I've started down the path of creating masters, making molds, and casting them in Hydrocal. Been spending *a lot* of time on CC Crow's website lately. Also hunted down a copy of the Mainline Modeler issue with the "Masonry and Stonework" article by Jack Work.
This is all tremendously interesting stuff, I'm following along with much enthusiasm!
-Joe
Hi Joe
Thanks for stopping by the thread - I'm on my way into the train room to pour some resin step castings to see if I can bring them into scale. I want to try resin first rather than hydrocal because I have to cut them with out chipping them. With hydrocal that is more of a challenge than I'm looking for. ;)
The resin castings are poured and beginning to cure. We should have something to work with tomorrow morning. I have also poured some casting for a future project in the same pour. Planning ahead for Challenge 2.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-220916163617.jpeg)
I pulled the resin casting from the mold and we have a piece to work on. I started the process of shortening the steps by pour the mold a little light so now all I have to do is spend a few minutes on the bench evening out the first step. Tomorrow I will see how well this resign cuts and we will see if plan A is going to work. I'm real happy with the way the brick pattern on the top surface of the steps reproduced. I know it's hard to see in the picture with all that white. Yes there is sanding dust on the casting from me getting started with the process and then remembering to take a picture. ;)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-220916191614.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-220916191614.jpeg)
The sanding dust is also all over my desk now because I brought it out of the work room with me. :(
Tonight, I'm happy to report that the out of scale steps challenge has been solved and this build is back on track. Through the next few posts I will show you the steps I went through to fix it.
I want to say thanks again to Mark Dalrymple for his good eye. If you go back a few pages you will see his post as I was taking the castings out of the box. He basically asked me to measure the steps. Which lead to pouring castings and todays cutting and sanding.
At this point I have shown the steps I went through to pour the new resign step castings. Now I need to cut them apart and resize the steps to 8 inches HO scale from the current 12 inches.
Before I get started on the cutting process here is the label from the Smooth-On plastic that I used for this casting. I'm really happy with this product. This is my third batch of it and so far it works great.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203842.jpeg)
Here is the product numbers and specifications if you want to try it.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203911.jpeg)
The first step in fixing the castings was to sand down the bottom step to a even 8 inches HO all the way across
the casting. I used a digital micrometer to monitor my progress until I got it where I wanted it. 0.092 inches is a scale 8 inches.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916201738.jpeg)
Here is a side view of the casting when I was getting close with the bottom step. You can see how out of scale the three upper steps are at this point.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916201809.jpeg)
Next it was time to get out the jewelers saw - a very small thin bladed coping saw.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916201905.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916201905.jpeg)
Here is a picture of the cutting process as I got started.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916201946.jpeg)
Note: At this point I was trying to keep to the Bob Butts standard of build threads and show you the cutting process while I was doing it with my hands doing the work etc. etc. Well, as I snapped this picture with the camera in my other hand I broke the blade on the jewelers saw. Challenge number 2.
Here is a second picture, yes it's overkill but these pictures cost me a saw blade.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202102.jpeg)
I know now the Bob is mounting his camera on a tripod and pushing the shutter release with a remote on the floor with his foot. Right Bob?
So after replacing the blade - I made my way around the corner and was making good progress when I got the bright idea to take another picture. Broke the second blade.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202136.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202136.jpeg)
So from here on out you are getting pictures at the end of each step. Here we have the first casting piece ready to be sanded to proper size.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202216.jpeg)
Here is the master casting with that block removed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202444.jpeg)
Here is the master casting after the next block or step is removed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202517.jpeg)
Here is the four pieces of the casting ready to be cleaned up and sized. Yes - I finished the process with a smaller second blade. Notice the pieces of blade on the workbench.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202638.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202557.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202557.jpeg)
Each step had to be sanded down from the back side until it was 8 inches HO higher than the previous step. I did this with a piece of adhesive backed sand paper mounted on my workbench.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202716.jpeg)
Here is my stop action picture with all the fine plastic dust. I kept the vacuum cleaner going while I did this. Tip of the day: put the small nozzle on the vacuum so you don't have to go get your casting out of the vacuum cleaner. Yes - that is one of learned the hard way.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916202928.jpeg)
Another tip: This was my first experience at trying to sand resign to size using a process that I've used many times with wood and hydrocal. This plastic material responds very different to the sanding process because of it's low modulus. You are never sanding the whole bottom at once. You basically only remove material from the area where you are holding it and putting the downward pressure.
You just have to keep measuring and moving the casting around in your hand to remove material evenly.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203042.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203140.jpeg)
Here is a picture of the steps assembled on my workbench after the sanding process.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203223.jpeg)
Now for the inspection. We moved the assembly to my granite layout table. I used my micrometer to make sure I had an 8 inch scale piece of strip wood. I used it to make sure that each step was an even using my now sanded fingers to make sure it was flush on each step.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203255.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203325.jpeg)
At this point the step assembly is ready for painting. I will glue it together on my base for the build once I have the main structure completed.
Today, I also primed the test casting so I could start playing with how I want to paint the castings.
I'm starting with a sand primer coat for the main church walls for my first trial.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203432.jpeg)
The shingle castings are starting out with a grey primer.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-230916203502.jpeg)
I want to point out that these are throwaway casting that I made just to test the coloring. I haven't cleaned them up and if fact choose them because they were defective.
John,
Well, you certainly have enough "throwaways" to practice on.
Tom ;D
Quote from: ACL1504 on September 24, 2016, 07:20:32 AM
John,
Well, you certainly have enough "throwaways" to practice on.
Tom ;D
I have been pouring a lot of hydrocal and resin the last few weeks - I had these molds sitting on the workbench and filled them with what ever material was left over from a batch. I'm really not sure how I want to color the stone work on this church and will be trying a number of different techniques.
Quote from: S&S RR on September 24, 2016, 07:52:27 AM
Quote from: ACL1504 on September 24, 2016, 07:20:32 AM
John,
Well, you certainly have enough "throwaways" to practice on.
Tom ;D
I have been pouring a lot of hydrocal and resin the last few weeks - I had these molds sitting on the workbench and filled them with what ever material was left over from a batch. I'm really not sure how I want to color the stone work on this church and will be trying a number of different techniques.
John,
The good thing about having all the extras is you can really get a feel for the color your eye is comfortable with.
I've done the same in the past.
Tom ;D
Steps look a lot more "scale" now. If you'd had churchgoers on the others, they would have needed mountain climbing gear. ;D
Jeff
Great work, John!
The chap I model with on a Tuesday night builds all his structures with Das over MDF shells. He cuts all the walls, door and window openings etc of the MDF with a saw such as yours, and often breaks two or three blades a night. I'll hear a 'ping' followed by a "damn it!"
Would it be possible to create an image with the two sets of stairs side by side? It might be nice to accentuate the difference that all your hard work has achieved.
IMO most definitely worth the effort!
Cheers, Mark.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on September 24, 2016, 08:19:11 AM
Steps look a lot more "scale" now. If you'd had churchgoers on the others, they would have needed mountain climbing gear. ;D
Jeff
Jeff
Thanks for following along - and yes my little people will definitely find it easier to go to church now. It is amazing how much of a difference having something out of scale distracts form a structure.
Quote from: mark dalrymple on September 24, 2016, 03:46:50 PM
Great work, John!
The chap I model with on a Tuesday night builds all his structures with Das over MDF shells. He cuts all the walls, door and window openings etc of the MDF with a saw such as yours, and often breaks two or three blades a night. I'll hear a 'ping' followed by a "damn it!"
Would it be possible to create an image with the two sets of stairs side by side? It might be nice to accentuate the difference that all your hard work has achieved.
IMO most definitely worth the effort!
Cheers, Mark.
Hi Mark
I'm glad you stopped back to see the new and improved stair castings. The original casting is still sitting on my workbench - so I will take a picture of it and my 4 piece design side by side with a few little people and post it tomorrow.
That little jewelers saw is great for scratch building projects. I'm amazed at how many times I use it. And yes - I do go through a lot of blades. I buy them in packs of 20.
Here are a couple pictures of the stair castings, as Mark requested - as shipped with the kit on the left and as modified on the right.
I added an HO Figure for reference. My plan is to make up the difference in height by raising the ground level at the beginning of the steps when I mount the structure and steps on my base board.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-250916195749.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-250916195821.jpeg)
It sure makes a big difference.
Today, I spent a couple hours cleaning up the work shop. I had pieces from 4 different builds spread all over the place. So - this build has it's own dedicated workbench and the painting trials will begin tomorrow.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-250916195929.jpeg)
I got back on my challenge build for a little while today. First here is a picture of the area where the church will go. This picture is taken a little to the left of the actual location but all the coloring is the same. This area will have this church and then on a lower level a residential area and then at the base of the mountain there will be a large town.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-300916211915.jpeg)
The rock in this area has the acrylic paint applied but will still be detailed with chalks and pigments as the final scenery is added.
Looking good John. :)
Stay cool and run steam..... 8) 8)
So the big question is - Would the towns people in this mountain town build their church out of white stone. The instructions for this model say to leave the hydrocal white. I'm not sold on that so I made up a few test castings to try some different color schemes.
Here is where the process took me today. Any suggestions?
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-300916211811.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-300916211811.jpeg)
Quote from: Powersteamguy1790 on September 30, 2016, 09:29:16 PM
Looking good John. :)
Stay cool and run steam..... 8) 8)
Thanks for stopping by Bob - we are starting to make some progress.
I like the coloring on the left better. I agree about the white, I can't imagine that looking right. Your rock cliff work looks great what are you using?
-Steve
John, Thanks for the detailed build thread and all of the photos (ping) of you cutting (ping) the stairs apart. I'm partial to the wall on the right. Keep the build photos coming!
Quote from: SteveCuster on September 30, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
I like the coloring on the left better. I agree about the white, I can't imagine that looking right. Your rock cliff work looks great what are you using?
-Steve
DITTO
THe left scheme is better and is very close to reality like an old church in Quebec city
Eric Quebec city
Quote from: EricQuebec on October 01, 2016, 06:45:03 AM
Quote from: SteveCuster on September 30, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
I like the coloring on the left better. I agree about the white, I can't imagine that looking right. Your rock cliff work looks great what are you using?
-Steve
DITTO
THe left scheme is better and is very close to reality like an old church in Quebec city
Eric Quebec city
Double Ditto.
I prefer the color on the left. The right side casting looks perfectly fine, but the brown/tan/sienna color of the wash gives it a "European" feel to me, if that makes any sense.
-Joe
Agree with everyone else - the left sample seems to be closer to the existing rock coloring. And yeah, locals would use local rock for building in rural areas.
Quote from: fotoflojoe on October 01, 2016, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: EricQuebec on October 01, 2016, 06:45:03 AM
Quote from: SteveCuster on September 30, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
I like the coloring on the left better. I agree about the white, I can't imagine that looking right. Your rock cliff work looks great what are you using?
-Steve
DITTO
THe left scheme is better and is very close to reality like an old church in Quebec city
Eric Quebec city
Double Ditto.
I prefer the color on the left. The right side casting looks perfectly fine, but the brown/tan/sienna color of the wash gives it a "European" feel to me, if that makes any sense.
-Joe
Yes you right, this color look like pink greystone that is common on north eastern France on some cathedral (like Strasbourg).
Eric Quebec
Quote from: SteveCuster on September 30, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
I like the coloring on the left better. I agree about the white, I can't imagine that looking right. Your rock cliff work looks great what are you using?
-Steve
Hi Steve
Thanks for watching the thread and for the input. I'm still playing with the coloring, but yes white has been ruled out. The rock work is all plaster - I used number 1 molding plaster 3300 lbs. of the stuff so far. The painting wall all done with acrylic paints. If you take a look at the first page of my build thread on the S&S Railroad you will find an index, which will point you to the page in the thread where I describe the painting process that I used.
Quote from: MAP on October 01, 2016, 06:00:38 AM
John, Thanks for the detailed build thread and all of the photos (ping) of you cutting (ping) the stairs apart. I'm partial to the wall on the right. Keep the build photos coming!
Mark
Thanks for stopping by the thread and your input. I have a few more combinations I want to try and then I have to figure out the trim color. How much you want to bet the final color turns out somewhere in between these two. ;)
Quote from: fotoflojoe on October 01, 2016, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: EricQuebec on October 01, 2016, 06:45:03 AM
Quote from: SteveCuster on September 30, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
I like the coloring on the left better. I agree about the white, I can't imagine that looking right. Your rock cliff work looks great what are you using?
-Steve
DITTO
THe left scheme is better and is very close to reality like an old church in Quebec city
Eric Quebec city
Double Ditto.
I prefer the color on the left. The right side casting looks perfectly fine, but the brown/tan/sienna color of the wash gives it a "European" feel to me, if that makes any sense.
-Joe
Joe
Thanks for stopping by the thread and your input. Tomorrow I'm going to try a few more things before I make a final decision on which way to go. Your comments on a "European" feel are interesting. I have taken pictures of hundreds of stone buildings in our travels to Europe and it has always amazed me how different the buildings look from one area to the next.
The stone/rock coloration on my layout is trying to match what I have photographed in the Pacific Northwest of the US. More browns than typically find in the East.
Quote from: Oldguy on October 01, 2016, 12:31:08 PM
Agree with everyone else - the left sample seems to be closer to the existing rock coloring. And yeah, locals would use local rock for building in rural areas.
Bob
Thanks for your input and for stopping by the thread. So far we have ruled out white, which is good because I don't like it. As I said above, I'm going to try a few more and see if I can find something I like better. Stay toned more color samples to look at.
Quote from: EricQuebec on October 01, 2016, 06:45:03 AM
Quote from: SteveCuster on September 30, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
I like the coloring on the left better. I agree about the white, I can't imagine that looking right. Your rock cliff work looks great what are you using?
-Steve
DITTO
THe left scheme is better and is very close to reality like an old church in Quebec city
Eric Quebec city
Eric
Thank you for your input and for watching the thread. To me the one on the right looks like you just picked up stones randomly from the area and has most of the colors in the surrounding stone - which will tend to make it work like camouflage so the building will not stand out. I think right now that the final version will lean toward the one on the left with more of one color range.
Hi John:
I like the left one also.
Karl
To start out with tonight, I would really like to thank RAYMO for getting this challenge going. I hadn't posted on this thread for a couple of days and I had to go to page two of the Kit Building board to find it. That's a lot of build activity.
I like the left wall as well.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on October 05, 2016, 08:16:19 PM
I like the left wall as well.
Jeff
Thanks for stopping by the thread and for the input Jeff. I'm about to post a few pictures of some of my next steps in protecting the technique I want to use for the walls on this church.
So here is a picture with a few of the walls I've produced playing with different techniques. Over the years I have been coloring plaster castings with acrylic paints and have developed a technique that I like. My challenge for this build was to take it to the next level with the use of pan pastels and chalks. We have already had some discussion about the results of my first trials. This is picture represents where I'm at tonight.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016203332.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016203332.jpeg)
I took pictures of each step as I made these walls and since this is a build thread I will present them here.
In the picture above the two top walls were done with just acrylic paints.
The three lower castings were done with the same techniques but with two different base coats. The one on the left, and bottom (with the hip roof) was done with a dark grey primer "rattle can" followed by a light grey acrylic primer to start. The one on the left was done starting with a white hydrocal casting with no primer or sealer.
I want the look of the darker stone for this build and like the coloring of the middle left casting the best. Through the next few posts, I will describe the technique in detail and why I like this one the best. We will also discuss a few tweaks to the technique that may give us better results.
Either of the two middle ones works for me.
Quote from: ak-milw on October 05, 2016, 09:31:32 PM
Either of the two middle ones works for me.
Thanks for the input Andy - I will explain as I describe the technique why I like the one on the left a little better.
Step 1. The rattle can grey primer.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016213539.jpeg)
Step 2: Add the acrylic grey primer over the darker primer. Notice how the darker grey highlights show through. This is a great base that I can always get back to if I get carried away with the chalks.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016213611.jpeg)
Step 3: Start with the Pan Pastels - dark neutral gray to start a few stones.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016213641.jpeg)
Here is where we start with the plain white hydrocal casting.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016213707.jpeg)
Step 4: The Burnt Sienna Extra Dark Stones.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016214736.jpeg)
This is the same technique I would use if I were using acrylic paints. Pick random stones to have this predominant color and then blend it all together like mother nature does.
Step 5: Add Burnt Sienna Shade.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016215218.jpeg)
Step 6: Add red iron oxide extra dark.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016215248.jpeg)
I'm using three shade of grey and three shades of burnt sienna. My artist friend tells me mother nature always uses three shades of every color.
Here are my three shades of gray - the predominant color for this casting.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016220502.jpeg)
Step 7: Add the predominant blend color - a neutral gray in this case. At this point I move from using sponges to using a brush to blend all the colors together.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016220541.jpeg)
A few more shots as I completed the process on all three castings.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016220633.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016220712.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016220800.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016220826.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016220852.jpeg)
Now in Step 8: We add a little moss to the stones with a green shade.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016221054.jpeg)
In Step 9: We use a dry brush like technique with a lighter shade of grey to add highlights. The difference between a darker gray stone wall and a lighter one is the color we use to blend the colors together.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016221139.jpeg)
Step 10: For these walls - was a spray of fixative - I used the one from this can.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016221001.jpeg)
Here is what the wall looked like after the fixative dried. I will not be using this on the church walls. I got rid of gloss with a dry brushing of the lighter gray but no one will be touching this structure once it's on the layout so I'm going to go with the nice flat finish and texture of the pastels without the fixative.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016222758.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016222758.jpeg)
Here is the walls after I dry brushed them.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016203332.jpeg)
Notice how the highlights show through from the two different primers on the casting on the left. It's time to stop playing and get on with the build. What do you think?
Next step - making the shingle castings look like cedar shingles.
Color looks great John.
Interesting technique. The left wall looks like an old Scottish castle to me. Cool.
Jeff
John,
I believe you've captured the look of an old weathered church. My Babe is from Baltimore, MD. and there are several old churches in her old neighborhood with walls that look just like this.
Great stuff here.
Tom ;D
Quote from: SteveCuster on October 06, 2016, 05:45:31 AM
Color looks great John.
Thanks Steve - now I need to reproduce them on the kit castings.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on October 06, 2016, 08:07:52 AM
Interesting technique. The left wall looks like an old Scottish castle to me. Cool.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff - I looked at a bunch of them last year maybe that's what my eyes want to see.
Quote from: ACL1504 on October 06, 2016, 08:14:57 AM
John,
I believe you've captured the look of an old weathered church. My Babe is from Baltimore, MD. and there are several old churches in her old neighborhood with walls that look just like this.
Great stuff here.
Tom ;D
Thanks Tom - I need to find a faster way to take pictures and post them if I'm going to document builds like this.
Quote from: S&S RR on October 05, 2016, 10:32:31 PM
Here is the walls after I dry brushed them.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016203332.jpeg)
It's been really interesting to follow the application of the colors. My personal preference is the lighter, upper left wall in the picture but I'd bet you could easily find prototypes that match all five of them. :D
My favorite is the middle right one with the 3 windows , even if the stones came from one area they'd still have some tones in them like the one I favor.
Quote from: ReadingBob on October 06, 2016, 10:24:06 AM
Quote from: S&S RR on October 05, 2016, 10:32:31 PM
Here is the walls after I dry brushed them.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016203332.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-051016203332.jpeg)
It's been really interesting to follow the application of the colors. My personal preference is the lighter, upper left wall in the picture but I'd bet you could easily find prototypes that match all five of them. :D
Thanks for following along with the thread Bob - interesting choice - that is the one I did to match the Stone Roundhouse build I did a few years ago. It will be used for a near future build - a locomotive works which will be located next to the Stone Roundhouse. I took some pictures of the walls up in the area where the church will go on the layout that I will post this evening. Don't be surprised if I go a little lighter on the church castings.
Quote from: Janbouli on October 06, 2016, 06:50:32 PM
My favorite is the middle right one with the 3 windows , even if the stones came from one area they'd still have some tones in them like the one I favor.
Jan
I hear you - I want the brown shades to show up. There is actually more brown in the casting to my eye than the camera is capturing. I'm about to post some pictures of the castings in the lighting and location where the church will be located on my layout. I'm hoping that the brown rocks in the area will bring out the brown colors in these wall castings.
John all the walls look great, I'm favoring the middle left wall myself.
Before I forget, here is the bottle for the light grey primer that I used on the wall castings. I didn't have a picture last night when I posted the pictures.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-061016191902.jpeg)
Quote from: Twopoint2 on October 06, 2016, 07:19:15 PM
John all the walls look great, I'm favoring the middle left wall myself.
Jim
Thanks for watching the thread and your input. I'm glad people like it because it looks like that is where I'm going with the build.
Before I committed to the C.C. Crow White Stone Church not being White I had to try one of the castings up on the mountain side of my layout.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-061016192112.jpeg)
Any questions?
So here's what the castings we have been discussing look like on the side of the mountain.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-061016192146.jpeg)
The far right unfinished portion of the casting is with just the light grey primer.
Here is a cropped picture with some zoom.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-061016192222.jpeg)
A little more zoom.
The brown's in the casting seem to show up more with the brown colored rocks sounding it.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-061016192250.jpeg)
This picture is definitely going to make use of my stick to hold the iPhone or the SLR with a zoom lens.
So - the castings are going into the paint booth for the dark grey primer. I have started playing with the roof castings. And I have to decide about the window trim. What do you think about a light grey. The windows are going to have stained glass, which will be shown off by some LED's from Slim.
Today, I only managed about an hour on this build. I started preparing the castings for the paint booth.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-071016204243.jpeg)
Cutting the window openings and testing the fit of the window castings.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-071016204315.jpeg)
What do you think - light grey window castings or a dark hunter green?
John, I would go with the light gray or even white. With the dark walls the trim should stand out and show off the stained glass.
I think white might look very striking.
dave
I think you should paint one window with each of the three colors and see which looks best. You can always redo the two you didn't like.
I'm thinking the dark green will contrast really well and look very "churchy". Looking good here.
Quote from: ak-milw on October 07, 2016, 09:32:50 PM
John, I would go with the light gray or even white. With the dark walls the trim should stand out and show off the stained glass.
Andy
Thanks for your input. I think I will end up with a very light grey but I plan on doing a test before I make a final decision. I want to see how dark I end up making the walls.
Quote from: deemery on October 07, 2016, 10:12:08 PM
I think white might look very striking.
dave
Dave
Thanks for stopping by the thread and for your input.
I plan on doing a color test and you may be right. Once I get the walls done I will paint some test windows.
Quote from: Mike Engler on October 08, 2016, 12:06:15 AM
I think you should paint one window with each of the three colors and see which looks best. You can always redo the two you didn't like.
I'm thinking the dark green will contrast really well and look very "churchy". Looking good here.
Hi Mike
Thanks for stopping by the thread - and as usually you have good advice. I need to see things to make these color decisions so I will make some paint test windows and see what they look like with the finished walls.
Today's progress was to finish cleaning up the castings and I started painting them with primer. I plan on assembling the walls and then doing the final painting and coloring so I'm painting the inside first..
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-081016193522.jpeg)
Today, I started assembling the walls. Yes, I use lots of weights to make sure things are square and stay that way.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016213442.jpeg)
Once the glue dried, I glued the two halves together.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016213525.jpeg)
Next step, starting the steeple.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214101.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214319.jpeg)
The castings for this kit are beautiful - but fragile. I wanted to get them braced before I moved this off my workbench.
Quote from: S&S RR on October 09, 2016, 11:37:47 PM
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214319.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214319.jpeg)
Here are a few pictures of the process I went through to install the braces.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214503.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214503.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214425.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214425.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214350.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214350.jpeg)
I find this bubble level very useful in making sure, even the bracing, is plumb. Make sure your workbench is level first.
Hi John:
Looks like you're off to a good strat.
Karl
The last step for today was the paint booth for the primer.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214707.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214707.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214605.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-091016214605.jpeg)
Quote from: postalkarl on October 09, 2016, 11:51:55 PM
Hi John:
Looks like you're off to a good strat.
Karl
Thanks for stopping by Karl. We are getting there.
John, A man after my own heart. Angle plates, 1-2-3 blocks, machinist squares. Gotta love em
Looking fantastic, John!
Cheers, Mark.
Looking great John , do you fill the gaps between the walls after you've primed them , or are those dark lines not gaps?
Quote from: ak-milw on October 10, 2016, 12:02:22 AM
John, A man after my own heart. Angle plates, 1-2-3 blocks, machinist squares. Gotta love em
Andy
Thanks for following along - sometimes it's all about the tools.
Quote from: mark dalrymple on October 10, 2016, 02:18:33 AM
Looking fantastic, John!
Cheers, Mark.
Mark
Thanks for following along and the emails - very helpful!
Quote from: Janbouli on October 10, 2016, 03:30:23 AM
Looking great John , do you fill the gaps between the walls after you've primed them , or are those dark lines not gaps?
Jan
Jan
Thanks for following along.
The black you see is the overspray paint from painting the inside surfaces before I assembled the walls. The joints are nice and snug and the stone detail is in the edge of the overlap wall. The lines disappeared when I primed the whole assembly.
That's what I thought John , thanks .
Looking good john. :)
Stay cool and run steam..... 8) 8)
Quote from: Janbouli on October 10, 2016, 01:31:37 PM
That's what I thought John , thanks .
Jan
Follow-up to your question. Once I got the assembly back on my workbench I found an area that I needed to fill.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-101016175231.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-101016175231.jpeg)
I really zoomed in here to show the area.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-101016175202.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-101016175202.jpeg)
This picture also demonstrates why auto manufactures always paint new models white until they get the bugs out of the process. It takes weeks before black cars are available. Notice the air bubbles that you didn't see when the castings were white really show up, now that it's dark gray. The chalks will fill most of these small imperfections. I also fixed a few of them while I filled the gap.
C.C. Crow sends a small packet of Durham's Water Putty with the kit for just this application. Here is picture after I filled the cracks and air bubbles.
I just apply it with my finger. Wash it off your finger before it dries!
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-101016175129.jpeg)
I also take a tooth pick and open the mortar lines back up before it dries.
Next step: Paint the casting with the lighter grey acrylic primer.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-101016175051.jpeg)
Time to let this dry over night and then I can start with the pastel chalks.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-101016175023.jpeg)
Yes, the thought did occur to me to stop here and make it the White Stone Church.
Looking great John.
Quote from: ak-milw on October 10, 2016, 07:48:43 PM
Looking great John.
Thanks Andy
Tomorrow, we get to see more of what it's going to look like. I also need to figure out the window trim color.
Hi John:
Looks good and also look like quite a project. Keep the photos coming.
Karl
Quote from: postalkarl on October 11, 2016, 07:57:47 AM
Hi John:
Looks good and also look like quite a project. Keep the photos coming.
Karl
Thanks for following along Karl - I'm about to post a bunch of pictures of the coloring process.
It's time to see if we can duplicate our coloring process on the model. At this point we have the dark and light gray primer and we are switching to the pan pastels.
First step: the neutral Gray Extra Dark
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153234.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153234.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153259.jpeg)
A quick note: The roof bracing makes a great handle. Need to keep in mind for future builds.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153328.jpeg)
Next step the red iron oxide extra dark.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153353.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153353.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153415.jpeg)
Next the burnt sienna shade. That makes three shade of brown.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153441.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153441.jpeg)
Now we add the second shade of gray - Neutral Gray Shade. This starts the blending process with the sponge.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153502.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153526.jpeg)
At this point I switch to the brush and work in Neutral Grey to blend it all together.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153552.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153552.jpeg)
At this point a dry brush it with the dark green "moss" color. This is subtle but it makes the colors pop more. On the second picture I have the left half done and the right half without the green. The third picture is the wall completed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153659.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153619.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153640.jpeg)
Final step: Dry brushing with Raw Umber Tint.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153727.jpeg)
This final picture is with the roof weathered - first attempt. And the window castings painted with four different colors. Which is your favorite - I have already picked mine.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153748.jpeg)
For me the window on the left.
Quote from: Janbouli on October 11, 2016, 05:15:43 PM
For me the window on the left.
Thanks for the input Jan. We will see how this goes for a few days before I make a final decision.
John,
The side of the church looks wonderful. Fantastic job my friend.
Tom ;D
Wonderful stone! I vote for the white window.
dave
The white looks good. So does the one on the left. Heck, they all look good. ;D
Jeff
John
The build and colors look great. My vote is for the window on the left.
Looks great, the window on the left or the white one.
I vote for the one on the left.
Jim
The window on the left matches the weathered stone but I do like the white better.
Tom ;D
My vote is for the white one. The stone work looks phenomenal! Well done! :D
Quote from: ACL1504 on October 11, 2016, 06:53:46 PM
John,
The side of the church looks wonderful. Fantastic job my friend.
Tom ;D
Thanks Tom
Now for the finishing touches.
Quote from: deemery on October 11, 2016, 06:58:59 PM
Wonderful stone! I vote for the white window.
dave
Dave
Thanks for the stopping by the thread and your input.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on October 11, 2016, 07:08:27 PM
The white looks good. So does the one on the left. Heck, they all look good. ;D
Jeff
Jeff
I like the fact that they all look good! Thanks for stopping by the thread.
Quote from: Twopoint2 on October 11, 2016, 07:20:18 PM
John
The build and colors look great. My vote is for the window on the left.
Thanks for your input and for stopping by the thread. I will explain the color choices in a few minutes.
Quote from: ak-milw on October 11, 2016, 09:47:18 PM
Looks great, the window on the left or the white one.
Andy
Thanks for your input.
Quote from: jimmillho on October 11, 2016, 11:07:05 PM
I vote for the one on the left.
Jim
Jim
Thanks for your vote and for following the thread.
I'd go with either the left one or the white. Other than the black one, they all look good.
I did question the rock coloring choices until the very end, Very well done.
Quote from: ACL1504 on October 12, 2016, 07:22:47 AM
The window on the left matches the weathered stone but I do like the white better.
Tom ;D
Tom
Thanks for your vote - so far we are voting for a new church and a getting older church.
Quote from: ReadingBob on October 12, 2016, 07:42:16 AM
My vote is for the white one. The stone work looks phenomenal! Well done! :D
Thanks for stopping by Bob
And for voting.
So here is what the colors of the trim are supposed to do. From my artistic director. All the colors are supposed to work with the stone. I think so. The White is a brand new church. The gray's the dark you go the older the church. And the Dark Hunter Green is a real old church. Like Jeff mentioned - the one's you see in Scotland. I'm currently between the far left gray and the dark green. My time frame is 1949 so this church would have been built late 1800's up in the mountains. I'm going fishing for a few days so we will see which way I decide to go when I get back. Any more input? Do you agree with the meaning behind the colors?
Quote from: Oldguy on October 12, 2016, 11:23:22 AM
I'd go with either the left one or the white. Other than the black one, they all look good.
I did question the rock coloring choices until the very end, Very well done.
Bob
Thanks for the your input and for stopping by the thread. Interesting the Oldguy doesn't like the oldest looking one. ;)
If you believe the color meaning thing.
Looks great John.
If in doubt...What would George do?
John
Quote from: Cuse on October 12, 2016, 05:03:06 PM
Looks great John.
If in doubt...What would George do?
John
John
Thanks
My guess is George would go for old - maybe a hole in the roof and service being held in a tent outside.
The rocks rock. Dark green is old, and old churches are good, therefore dark green is good.
I think the white is way too bright and contrasts too much with the stone. I think the grey on the left blends in too much and all but disappears. So for me it is between the green and the one on the far right. Since no one else has gone for it I'll put the window to the right as my top choice. It blends nicely with the stone, but still contrasts enough to stand out.
Happy fishing! Cheers, Mark.
From an architectural perspective, I prefer the grey windows (one on the left). From a modeler's perspective, I think the white window provides needed contrast. Otherwise the windows get lost in the model. That's a typical trade-off in modeling, in part because the lighting in our layout rooms isn't as bright as the sun. And it's also an artifact of 'scale color'.
But at the risk of tossing another bad idea on the table, how about a medium olive color? That'll provide more contrast than dark green (which I vaguely remember seeing on a real stone church for its windows, and would be very Victorian), but would be less stark than the white windows.
dave
Quote from: S&S RR on October 12, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: Oldguy on October 12, 2016, 11:23:22 AM
I'd go with either the left one or the white. Other than the black one, they all look good.
I did question the rock coloring choices until the very end, Very well done.
Bob
Thanks for the your input and for stopping by the thread. Interesting the Oldguy doesn't like the oldest looking one. ;) If you believe the color meaning thing.
Only because we be talkin' churches. I'll leave it at that. ::)
Don't know if you have chosen the trim color yet but my choice is the grey on the right it just seems to blend with the rock color best
Nicely done with the dry brushing John. The build looks great. :)
Stay cool and run steam....... 8) 8)
The stone work is really great. All of those layers really gives the stones a natural look. My vote is the window on the left. The white stands out way too much for the look of the stones....unless the congregation chipped in a few gallons of paint to brighten up the place!
Quote from: Mike Engler on October 12, 2016, 06:53:25 PM
The rocks rock. Dark green is old, and old churches are good, therefore dark green is good.
Mike
Thanks for stopping by, at least I got one vote for the "old" dark green.
Quote from: mark dalrymple on October 13, 2016, 03:27:34 AM
I think the white is way too bright and contrasts too much with the stone. I think the grey on the left blends in too much and all but disappears. So for me it is between the green and the one on the far right. Since no one else has gone for it I'll put the window to the right as my top choice. It blends nicely with the stone, but still contrasts enough to stand out.
Happy fishing! Cheers, Mark.
Mark
Thanks for you input. I need to try a couple more things tomorrow before I make my final choice. I like the idea of the trim being visible but not standing out like it does with the white. I'm real happy with the stone work. I'm sold on layering - to me it just makes it look more natural. The process is the same with chalks or paint.
Quote from: deemery on October 13, 2016, 09:57:52 AM
From an architectural perspective, I prefer the grey windows (one on the left). From a modeler's perspective, I think the white window provides needed contrast. Otherwise the windows get lost in the model. That's a typical trade-off in modeling, in part because the lighting in our layout rooms isn't as bright as the sun. And it's also an artifact of 'scale color'.
But at the risk of tossing another bad idea on the table, how about a medium olive color? That'll provide more contrast than dark green (which I vaguely remember seeing on a real stone church for its windows, and would be very Victorian), but would be less stark than the white windows.
dave
Okay - thanks for your inout, I like your thought process and I will try a medium Olive before making my final decision.
Quote from: Oldguy on October 13, 2016, 01:06:19 PM
Quote from: S&S RR on October 12, 2016, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: Oldguy on October 12, 2016, 11:23:22 AM
I'd go with either the left one or the white. Other than the black one, they all look good.
I did question the rock coloring choices until the very end, Very well done.
Bob
Thanks for the your input and for stopping by the thread. Interesting the Oldguy doesn't like the oldest looking one. ;) If you believe the color meaning thing.
Only because we be talkin' churches. I'll leave it at that. ::)
Okay Bob - Sounds good.
Quote from: Mecrr22 on October 14, 2016, 09:23:24 AM
Don't know if you have chosen the trim color yet but my choice is the grey on the right it just seems to blend with the rock color best
Scott
Thanks for stopping by and for your input. I haven't made my final choice but it will probably be made tomorrow. As I said above, I have a couple more things I want to try.
Quote from: Powersteamguy1790 on October 14, 2016, 05:02:14 PM
Nicely done with the dry brushing John. The build looks great. :)
Stay cool and run steam....... 8) 8)
Thanks Bob
Quote from: MAP on October 15, 2016, 05:50:30 AM
The stone work is really great. All of those layers really gives the stones a natural look. My vote is the window on the left. The white stands out way too much for the look of the stones....unless the congregation chipped in a few gallons of paint to brighten up the place!
Mark
Thanks for the kind words. I'm really sold on layering with rock coloring and with scenery in general. Thanks again for stopping by the thread.
I'm down to the final window color testing and have to make a choice. Here is the what it looks like.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-111016153748.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-161016115319.jpeg)
I tried the med. Olive Green and also a darker grey but decided on the slightly darker grey (far right on the original sample, top picture, second from the left on the bottom picture) from the first test. Most of you picked the window on the left
(top picture) which blends in with the stone. I wanted to have just a little contrast so I went with a slightly darker grey shade. Thanks for all the input - it was real interesting to see what everyone thought. I really like the dark green with this stone color but not on a church. If you follow my build thread you will find that I will use this color combination on future build. Now, it's time to paint window castings and finish the roof.
I few steps that I completed on this without taking progress pictures. The porthole openings on the steeple have been colored in with a dark grey pan pastel and the steeple roof has been installed. I'm currently waiting for the window casting to dry - I think they will require a second coat of paint.
I'm getting a kick out of having to look for my thread on page two - I have never seen this many build thread going at the same time. Very cool!
I completed a few more steps on the build today. First was a base board. This structure will be mounted on a 3/4 inch plywood surface so I just needed a base for transporting the completed structure to the building site.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-171016192812.jpeg)
I cut an acces hatch in all of my structure builds so I can add some of SLIM's special LED lighting when I get it in place on the layout.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-171016192919.jpeg)
I just tape the hatch door in place for now.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-171016192953.jpeg)
I also painted all of the door and window castings. I need to trim the castings for the front door. Basically made a double door out of two single door castings. I chose Mahogany doors for the church.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-171016193023.jpeg)
I also started coloring the brick steps. Three shades of brown.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-171016192843.jpeg)
Finally, for today, I glued the church to the base board and started adding the window castings and stain glass.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-171016193048.jpeg)
I like the look of the stone. I see some Vallejo primer in the background. How do you like it?
Vilius
Quote from: TheUkranian on October 18, 2016, 08:11:39 AM
I like the look of the stone. I see some Vallejo primer in the background. How do you like it?
Vilius
Vilius
Thanks for following the thread - I'm happy with the way the stone turned out.
This is the first build that I have used the Vallejo primer on. I have been using rattle can primers. I actually used both on this build. I will let you know what I think when I use it for the base primer. I brushed it on with this build.
I'll try to get a better photo, this was in today's local newspaper. (It was a comedy of errors with their website...)
dave
Quote from: deemery on October 18, 2016, 10:52:14 AM
I'll try to get a better photo, this was in today's local newspaper. (It was a comedy of errors with their website...)
dave
Very nice looking church. I hope you can get a better picture.
I made some more progress on this build today. I added the steps and started coloring them. I added the front door and decided I didn't like the way the castings fit in the door way.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-181016151757.jpeg)
Here is a picture after I added a molding around the door way. This also shows a few more window castings going in.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-181016151830.jpeg)
You will also notice that I raised the steps up to the proper level with a cardboard shim. I will cover this with a dirt grade leading up to the stairs. In this case it's hide it with some dirt instead of a bush.
Next steps: add the rest of the window castings, add the roof castings, finish coloring the roof castings, and then add some details.
I have the window castings glued in on 3 sides of the church now. I also added the first layer of sand to build up the area in front of the steps.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-231016185033.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-231016185110.jpeg)
Once I got the sand smoothed out I applied a 4:1 mixture of white glue and water. This is the first layer - Lake Michigan Beach sand to fill things in then I will add the colored dirt and stone that matches the area on my layout.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-231016185135.jpeg)
I gave it a good soaking with the water & glue (I wanted to fill in the voids in the corrugated cardboard that I used for the riser).
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-231016185223.jpeg)
The final step in this process was to soak up the excess water & glue with a paper towel.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-231016185252.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-231016185317.jpeg)
Here is what it looked like just before I turned out the lights for the night.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-231016185341.jpeg)
I added the roof and a few of the moldings today. I'm getting close on this build. I want to add a couple more moldings tomorrow and then I'm going to wait for the final touches and detailing on the build until I place it on the layout. The final coloring of the steps and the roof, a few figures and detail castings, the landscaping and the sign with the service announcements will be added.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-241016211314.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-241016211314.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-241016211238.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-241016211238.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-241016211212.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-241016211212.jpeg)
I have also named this church the Saint Elenor Church after Wayne Olson's wife Elenor. She earned her Sainthood putting up with Wayne all these years. ;) Some of you met Wayne at the 2013 EXPO. I will be scratch building a sign and announcement board with the name on it.
John, I hope you don't mind me asking but what is the base made from? It looks like Gator board. Does it have a heavy card board covering or is it the plastic one? Sorry I guess that is two questions.
Quote from: ak-milw on October 24, 2016, 09:50:55 PM
John, I hope you don't mind me asking but what is the base made from? It looks like Gator board. Does it have a heavy card board covering or is it the plastic one? Sorry I guess that is two questions.
Andy
Asking questions is what the forum is for so I'm happy to answer your questions - yes it is Gator board and it has the heavy card board covering.
This is only 3/16 inch thick but will be mounted to a 3/4 inch plywood baseboard when installed on the layout.
John,
Great job on the church. Well done.
Tom ;D
Quote from: S&S RR on October 25, 2016, 08:54:51 AM
Quote from: ak-milw on October 24, 2016, 09:50:55 PM
John, I hope you don't mind me asking but what is the base made from? It looks like Gator board. Does it have a heavy card board covering or is it the plastic one? Sorry I guess that is two questions.
Andy
Asking questions is what the forum is for so I'm happy to answer your questions - yes it is Gator board and it has the heavy card board covering.
This is only 3/16 inch thick but will be mounted to a 3/4 inch plywood baseboard when installed on the layout.
Thanks John, I have a piece I want to use to raise a section of layout up 3/16 and I wasn't sure how the cardboard would hold up, even though it seems pretty tough.
The church looks outstanding. Great work, John.
Jeff
Quote from: ACL1504 on October 25, 2016, 02:41:30 PM
John,
Great job on the church. Well done.
Tom ;D
Thanks for the kind words Tom.
Quote from: ak-milw on October 25, 2016, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: S&S RR on October 25, 2016, 08:54:51 AM
Quote from: ak-milw on October 24, 2016, 09:50:55 PM
John, I hope you don't mind me asking but what is the base made from? It looks like Gator board. Does it have a heavy card board covering or is it the plastic one? Sorry I guess that is two questions.
Andy
Asking questions is what the forum is for so I'm happy to answer your questions - yes it is Gator board and it has the heavy card board covering.
This is only 3/16 inch thick but will be mounted to a 3/4 inch plywood baseboard when installed on the layout.
Thanks John, I have a piece I want to use to raise a section of layout up 3/16 and I wasn't sure how the cardboard would hold up, even though it seems pretty tough.
Andy
I don't have any long term experience with gator foam. My last two build's were my first applications and I like the way it worked out on my workbench. I didn't have any issues with warping when I used diluted white glue to hold down my scenery materials. I soaked it pretty good applying the build up layer of sand on this build. When these builds go on my layout the gator foam will be glued down to 3/4 inch plywood - my standard base board material. Let me know how it works out for you.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on October 25, 2016, 08:18:41 PM
The church looks outstanding. Great work, John.
Jeff
Jeff
Thanks for stopping by the thread and for the kind words.
It is some fantastic job, John!
Vilius
Quote from: TheUkranian on October 26, 2016, 11:43:52 AM
It is some fantastic job, John!
Vilius
Vilius
Thank you - now it's on to the next build.
John,
I really like the way the church turned out. Thanks again for all of the pictures and dialogue during the build. I've used Gatorboard a few times and really like it. Gator Dave at the Expo always has a few pieces soaking in a jar of water during the event and the stuff never swells or disintegrates, so it must be pretty tough.
Quote from: MAP on October 29, 2016, 07:12:31 AM
John,
I really like the way the church turned out. Thanks again for all of the pictures and dialogue during the build. I've used Gatorboard a few times and really like it. Gator Dave at the Expo always has a few pieces soaking in a jar of water during the event and the stuff never swells or disintegrates, so it must be pretty tough.
Mark
Thanks for following along and the kind words. I have seen Gator Dave's demo and agree that it is great for base board applications. I have had no issues with warping and it is becoming my go to material.
John,
I think your church will add a great deal to a mountain scene on your layout with the aspen trees in the background. Very nice.
Quote from: sdrees on October 29, 2016, 01:02:51 PM
John,
I think your church will add a great deal to a mountain scene on your layout with the aspen trees in the background. Very nice.
Steve
Thanks for following the thread and for the kind words. I'm looking forward to getting the the aspen trees in and locating this church on the layout. As soon as I get the track work running on the upper level of my layout my attention will be on completing this scene.
Here are a couple shots of my build staged on my layout in a similar setting to where I plan to use it. I'm not ready to finish the scenery yet in the final area. I will add pictures to my build thread when the church is finally located on the mountain side and the final detailing is completed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-310117155702.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-310117155629.jpeg)
Nicely done John.....great stonework. 8)
Quote from: GPdemayo on February 23, 2017, 09:15:15 AM
Nicely done John.....great stonework. 8)
Greg
Thanks for the kind words. I'm looking forward to planting this one on my layout.
Hi John:
Very nicely done. Stonework looks great.
Karl
Quote from: postalkarl on February 28, 2017, 07:55:56 AM
Hi John:
Very nicely done. Stonework looks great.
Karl
Karl
Thanks for the kind words.