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The Mainline => Rolling Stock => Topic started by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 01:31:29 PM

Title: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 01:31:29 PM
Back in the early 90's there was a whole bunch of brass on Ebay. Since the late 80's the brass and secondary brass market has gone up and down like a Yo-Yo! I'm talking about the price and not the availability.

Back then, the late 80's to early 90's, brass commanded a fairly decent price. These were locos in really great condition.

On the other hand, brass locos in disrepair and in very poor condition were another story. These were also abundant on Ebay and commanded a very low price and often didn't sell at all  or rarely sold. You can still find these on Ebay if you look and are patient for one to show up.

This is a thread of one of those low priced brass locos, the Southern Ry. Ms-4 class Mikado, 2-8-2.

More in a few.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 01:40:57 PM
I'm spoon feeding you the narrative here as the first part of this story needs to be told so you get the entire history of the loco, including the Ebay story, the repairs and painting.

The Southern Ry. Ms-4 class, 2-8-2 Mikado by PFM is one such story. This model was imported by PFM, Pacific Fast Mail, in 1978 at a retail price of $225.00. Samhongsa was the builder.

By now, you have figured out that I got the model off Ebay and made the repairs. So you have a picture in mind, here is how it looked when it came to me.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317132811.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317132811.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317132831.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317132831.jpeg)

More in a few.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: GPdemayo on March 01, 2017, 01:43:35 PM
I'll be watching.....wasn't that photo taken on the old layout?  :)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 01:55:25 PM
This model was released in two versions. One version had the Elesco feedwater heater and the other version had the  Worthington FWH.

This model has the Elesco FWH on top of the smoke box. A total of 750 were made, 400 with the Worthington FWH and 350 with the Elesco FWH. Oddly enough, the model with the Elesco FWH  sold for $10.00 more. The model with the Worthington FWH sold for $215.00.

I found the listing as "Southern brass type train with coal car"! The woman listing in on Ebay said she picked it up a an estate sale.

I'm interested now as who wouldn't want a brass type train with a real "coal car"! You just have to love this next part of her narrative. It read as follows -

There is no box, parts may be missing, have no idea if it runs, it is offered with no track, and no caboose type car".  She went on to say she believes is has a very nice color to it.

I'm  not being derisive, but just stating what she listed. Not this model but ones like it were selling on Ebay for just over $400.00 at the time.

I saw it as a diamond in the rough. She had it listed for $119.00 and by it now for $149.99.

I bought it for the "buy it now" price of $149.99 and it had been listed for 5+ days and no bids.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317132842.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317132842.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317132855.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317132855.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 01:56:52 PM
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 01, 2017, 01:43:35 PM
I'll be watching.....wasn't that photo taken on the old layout?  :)


Greg,

These photos were taken back in 1995, three layouts ago.  Good eye! I don't think you saw that layout.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 02:03:19 PM
Keep in mind, I never would have purchased the model if I didn't think I could fix it. Also, after looking at all the photos she had listed I realized it wasn't in that bad of condition.

Looks can be deceiving and the paint job made it look bad and probably turned many buyers away.

Here are a few more "as purchased" pictures of this diamond in the rough.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140006.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140006.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140019.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140019.jpeg)


More in a few.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
I purchased the loco for two reasons. I wanted to see if I could make all the repairs. I already had two of this model so if all else failed, I could use it down the road for parts.

Secondly, I wanted to fix and repaint and resell it on Ebay.

For some reason, I chose to document this repair. I did this back in 1995 and it was prior to any forum on the internet and no DCC.

If I were to do this same repair today, I'd have taken an additional 100 pictures.

Here are the rest of the pictures of the loco.

Can anybody see anything wrong with it. Khaki, you don't count.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140036.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140036.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140049.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140049.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 02:11:18 PM
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140100.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140113.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140125.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 02:12:25 PM
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140138.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140138.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140150.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140150.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140202.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140202.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 02:15:57 PM
In the next day or so, I'll go over all that is wrong and what I had to repair. I made 12 -13 repairs on this little jem.

By the way, I think it does have a nice little color to it. :o :o :o :o

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: tct855 on March 01, 2017, 02:34:22 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
I purchased the loco for two reasons. I wanted to see if I could make all the repairs. I already had two of this model so if all else failed, I could use it down the road for parts.

Secondly, I wanted to fix and repaint and resell it on Ebay.

For some reason, I chose to document this repair. I did this back in 1995 and it was prior to any forum on the internet and no DCC.

If I were to do this same repair today, I'd have taken an additional 100 pictures.

Here are the rest of the pictures of the loco.

Can anybody see anything wrong with it. Khaki, you don't count.


KPI,   
        Nothing I do ever counts unless she gets pregnant! Then all bets are off! ha.  But I do see a truck load of things I'd do... KPII
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 03:00:45 PM
KPI,

Go ahead and list what you'd do or see. You of course would probably re-jacket the boiler and line the firebox with HO scale bricks. ;D ;D ;D


KPII
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: tct855 on March 01, 2017, 03:12:55 PM
KPI,
         lol, Man that hurt! You should have just kneed me in the jewels, that way I could have at least flinched. 
                                                                                                                                                                   KPII...
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 03:16:13 PM
Quote from: tct855 on March 01, 2017, 03:12:55 PM
KPI,
         lol, Man that hurt! You should have just kneed me in the jewels, that way I could have at least flinched. 
                                                                                                                                                                   KPII...


KPI,

Yea, the truth does hurt doesn't it! LOL X 10!

KPII
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 03:17:07 PM
You are the original KPI!

I'm the backup, KPII
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: GPdemayo on March 01, 2017, 04:18:59 PM

If I'm allowed to play.....

Missing ding-dong. missing or messed up right marker light, detached truck under cab, out of proportion ladder at tender rear, out of scale coal load, re-glued, bent or messed up handrails and thin metal parts. and it looks like the number on the light doesn't match the ones on the dome and tender?
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: tct855 on March 01, 2017, 10:08:06 PM
Greg is on a roll most of what he said is on the money, but don't forget the loose pilot bracket, missing cab slip grab, cab apron, missing front tender step and missing whistle and bell chords and possibly the whistle might be loose (it's laying down) just guessing! Also the rear tender ladder looks ok to me tho.  How'd I do?  I know, I know! I can hear Trump saying I'm fired!  KPI
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 08:18:12 AM
KPI and Greg,

For a couple of amateurs you did really well. I'll give my answers later this afternoon.

I need to get to Lowe's.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: GPdemayo on March 02, 2017, 09:04:23 AM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 01, 2017, 01:56:52 PM
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 01, 2017, 01:43:35 PM
I'll be watching.....wasn't that photo taken on the old layout?  :)


Greg,

These photos were taken back in 1995, three layouts ago.  Good eye! I don't think you saw that layout.

Tom ;D


I didn't, but the track against the rise in grade looks a lot like the spot on the old layout coming up to the steel trestle on the upper level. :)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 09:39:33 AM
Greg,

The loco is sitting on one of the two lower level mainlines. The two upper tracks, not shown, lead to the old "high trestle".

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 09:51:45 AM
The coal load was full of glue and to thick, the rear ladder was stock for the loco, the front tender steps was off but in the bag of loose parts, the pilot bracket wasn't loose, the front right marker light was intact but had a thin brass wire wrapped around it making it look odd, the numbers on the number boards did in fact match the tender and cab numbers.

Not sure what Greg meant by thin metal parts. Either way, ya'll done real good for amateurs. ;D ;D ;D


I needed to repair many other parts which I'll explain as I get into it later this afternoon.

Tom 8)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 10:04:07 AM
I'll add this part and start the narrative on the repairs this afternoon.

I disassembled the loco and stripped the paint off by giving the old loco a bath in Acetone.

NOTE: Acetone is nasty stuff. You should always use eye protection, a respirator and acid proof rubber gloves when working with Acetone.

There, I did my safety speech. I don't always follow my own advice.

After the bath in Acetone, I washed the parts in warm soapy water, rinsed in warm clean water and baked the parts dry in the over at 140 degrees for about 30 minutes. The oven was preheated of course.

I love putting up pictures like this one as it tends to scare people.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317095506.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317095506.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: BandOGuy on March 02, 2017, 10:14:40 AM
Tom,
Was Samhongsa being considerate back in '78 to drill out the tender floor for you? Or, did they know you were coming later?
Looking at the valve gear parts in the photo, there's either a lot of knowledge lurking to put them back correctly or a whole lot of photos as they came apart.
I know which box all my brass is in in the storage unit, now if..........
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 10:55:36 AM
Chip,

Yes, Samhongsa was very considerate in drilling the tender holes. I believe Key Imports and PFM were the first to drill the tender holes. At the time PFM DC Analog Sound was very very popular. So, the tender hole drilling was supposed to want people to install the sound. Kinda like a little incentive.

There is some knowledge in getting it all back together. However, just put it back the way it all came off. ;D ;D ;D ;D


No, no extra pictures for this one. By the time this one came along I already had a couple hundred under my belt.

I know there is still many interested brass owners out there that want or need things done. Yes, it is expensive and time consuming. However, the customer pays for the knowledge of how to do it and make it run and look correct.

One of the biggest reasons I stopped painting brass is that I got tired of the customers always wanting something for less than the price quoted. If I wanted the hassle, I'd stay in law enforcement.

Nothing here directed to you, just making a comment.

Thanks for following along.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: Mkrailway on March 02, 2017, 11:45:34 AM
Tom,

I wish I could have that argument with you; but alas I have no brass.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 11:53:37 AM
Quote from: MartyO on March 02, 2017, 11:45:34 AM
Tom,

I wish I could have that argument with you; but alas I have no brass.


Marty,

I understand. I appreciate you following along.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: sdrees on March 02, 2017, 12:17:46 PM
Hi Tom,

This is great stuff.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: Zephyrus52246 on March 02, 2017, 01:11:27 PM
Speaking of whiny customers.  I had an episode yesterday of a fine brass locomotive, custom finished/tuned by someone we all know that had issues on the layout.  Before cursing out said builder.  I looked at the trackwork.  One area had a very slight angle between a turnout and the following track and the other was a turnout where somehow the center of the turnout was very slightly lower than the edges.  The 4-8-4 would derail at the one turnout and the drivers would "float" over the one with the dip.  Just sitting there stuck with 3 sets of wheels in the air turning, the fourth set unable to propel the loco forward.  All my other locos (short steamers and diesels) are fine on these areas, but a long wheelbase steamer won't get thru them.  Absolutely nothing wrong with the loco, it's the trackwork.  Ever get an angry customer call on that Tom?  Or Thom?


Jeff
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: tct855 on March 02, 2017, 01:50:03 PM
Jeff,
          Hi yes I've gotten questions on that problem a lot. It's a common problem.  Anytime a steam locomotive (plastic or brass) runs through a curve or a diverging route of a turnout and the  track is level (no dips or bumps) and the center drivers lift in the air.  That means the radius is too tight for the locomotive to negotiate smoothly.

In most cases the trackwork needs to be straightened out a bit (not always an option). The next recourse is to check the side rods and drivers to make sure they slide freely from side to side.  It that looks good (meaning all drivers react the same) then the next step is to shave down the bearings to give a little more radius into the model. Very exacting work.  I've done it dozens of times before.

If your locomotive shorts (with Dcc) on said radius (mostly on brass ones). I would check again the outer side of the side rods against the drivers or the driver counterweights.  Something is touching.

The same goes for any binds on said radius.  Now If said locomotive has a problem going one direction, turn around facing the opposite direction (not in reverse direction) and run again. If same problem occurs It's the radius is to tight for the model. If problem doesn't happen then check the 1st outer side rods again.

Hope this helps. Also don't believe what a manufacturer says it's model radius will traverse.  Every manufacturers size switch is slightly a different radius.  An atlas #6 turnout is not the same as a #6 peco or shinohara's. etc.

One other note: another alternative is this happens on just one or two switches or curves (of the same type) but not all then you can take a track gauge and soldering iron and heat up the inner diameter rail and push out the gauge a bit (a little bit around the apex of the curve).  This will widen the gauge a little and might solve your issue with that particular radius issue. 

Again proper trouble shooting is key and time consuming if done properly, but always pays off in the end. FYI.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanx Thom...
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: tct855 on March 02, 2017, 02:06:19 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 10:04:07 AM
I'll add this part and start the narrative on the repairs this afternoon.

I disassembled the loco and stripped the paint off by giving the old loco a bath in Acetone.

NOTE: Acetone is nasty stuff. You should always use eye protection, a respirator and acid proof rubber gloves when working with Acetone.

There, I did my safety speech. I don't always follow my own advice.

After the bath in Acetone, I washed the parts in warm soapy water, rinsed in warm clean water and baked the parts dry in the over at 140 degrees for about 30 minutes. The oven was preheated of course.

I love putting up pictures like this one as it tends to scare people.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317095506.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317095506.jpeg)


Tom,
          Here are a couple more pics of smaller locos disassembled for work. Smaller doesn't mean easier always.  Thanx Thom...
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on March 02, 2017, 01:11:27 PM
Speaking of whiny customers.  I had an episode yesterday of a fine brass locomotive, custom finished/tuned by someone we all know that had issues on the layout.  Before cursing out said builder.  I looked at the trackwork.  One area had a very slight angle between a turnout and the following track and the other was a turnout where somehow the center of the turnout was very slightly lower than the edges.  The 4-8-4 would derail at the one turnout and the drivers would "float" over the one with the dip.  Just sitting there stuck with 3 sets of wheels in the air turning, the fourth set unable to propel the loco forward.  All my other locos (short steamers and diesels) are fine on these areas, but a long wheelbase steamer won't get thru them.  Absolutely nothing wrong with the loco, it's the trackwork.  Ever get an angry customer call on that Tom?  Or Thom?


Jeff


Jeff,

Yes, and you brought up a great point. There is no substitute for reliable track work.

As beautiful as the F&SM is, I noticed some areas on the layout where the track work is or could be a problem.

I try extremely hard to get the "perfect track work". It doesn't always happen and I've had to tweak mine from time to time. I have so many locos, brass and plastic diesels, that I can't run them all through every turnout.

My biggest two offenders are both USRA Santa Fe type 2-10-2s.

The one thing Thom didn't mention is the manufactured turnout like the Walthers Shinohara ones. Well, he did and he didn't. I've found that about one out of every product run, there is a bad one. I seem to be the one that gets the bad, brand new turnout.

This is going to be a long answer I'll continue the answer below.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 02:30:17 PM
Quote from: sdrees on March 02, 2017, 12:17:46 PM
Hi Tom,

This is great stuff.


Steve,

Thank you very much, happy you are enjoying the thread.

I'll have more of the repair this evening.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 02:47:21 PM
Jeff and others,

I have a Walthers #8 left hand curved turnout behind the new lubritorium. The Walthers #8 has an outside radius of 36" and an inside radius of 32". This is anolther reason I'm going to try my hand at the fast tracks turnouts when I get to the third level. That story is for another time.

Anyway, both of the 2-10-2's ride the rail going through the turnout and derail. I'm going to say when up hill they derail and when down hill they don't

Here is a photo of the offending turnout.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144208.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144208.jpeg)

You can also see that I have a grade difference of 1/4" (the thickness of cork roadbed) in the middle.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144219.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144219.jpeg)

When running left to right, derail and rides up on the outside of the rail. When running from right to left, no problems.

Just to let all know the track is in gauge.

More in a few.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 02:56:59 PM
I automatically assumed the turnout was slightly twisted or kinked. I made every test I could think of and I still got derails.

I checked the wheels and gauge of the wheels using the NMRA gauge. All wheels were as they should be. I had the Judge run the locos back and forth for about an hour and there was no binding of the side rods that caused the problem derail.

Both loco hit that one spot and popped up on the outside rail. I then pushed the loco to the right as it ran left to right through the turnout. No problem, no derail, no bumps - no nothing.

I checked the level of the turnout and turnout rails.

Right side/end of turnout.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144232.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144232.jpeg)

Middle of turnout.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144246.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144246.jpeg)

Left end of turnout.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144256.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144256.jpeg)

Consistent all the way through the turnout.

Your turnout must be absolutely level in all areas. No exceptions, period.

More in a few.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 03:50:27 PM
My solution for you is to try and level the turnout or see if the loco has a problem on ALL turnouts.

If the turnout can't be leveled, replace it before you get to far in the build.

Here is how I fixed my problem.

Remember above I mentioned that when I held the loco to the right going through the turnout, it didn't derail or ride the rails?

I decided to add an additional guide rail to the inside rail to help guide the 2-10-2 through the turnout and frog. I used a piece of stock code 83 rail and extended the guide rail.

It worked and I've had no derails on this turnout since.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144308.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317144308.jpeg)


Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 04:13:27 PM
I'm only going to do this one update as I've been on the turnout and phone for the last few hours.

I started with what I considered the hardest part of the repair.

In the repeat photo below, you'll note the cab smoke deflector is missing.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140150.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-010317140150.jpeg)

If I was in the forum mode back then I would have taken probably no less than two dozen pictures of this repair. Instead I'll just have to explain what I did.

I measured the length of the deflector image on top of the cab. I then used .030 Evergreen Styrene to make a sample. It took me several tries but finally I got one that looked decent.

I then used the styrene one to copy it on a piece of thin brass sheet stock.

The result is shown below.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317155521.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317155521.jpeg)

I very lightly tinned the bottom of the deflector to give me an advantage when soldering.

Using a small C clamp, I clamped one end of the wind deflector in place making absolutely sure I had it aligned properly. I then "tack" soldered the one end in place.

I then clamped the other end onto the roof again making sure it was aligned properly. I used the original solder line as my guide. I soldered the other end to the cab roof.

I left the two clamps in place and applied solder to the rest of the wind/smoke deflector.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317155506.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020317155506.jpeg)

I used the Micro-Mark mini butane torch for the repair.

Thom mentioned the missing left side cab grab iron. This was an easy fix. I used solid brass wire and made a mirrow image of the one on the right cab side. No picture of this repair but you will see it on the painted version.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: MAP on March 03, 2017, 07:11:06 AM
Another great thread Tom!  I'm following along.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: GPdemayo on March 03, 2017, 09:26:32 AM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 04:13:27 PM
.....In the repeat photo below, you'll note the cab smoke deflector is missing.....


I wondered what that was..... ???
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 03, 2017, 10:20:35 AM
Quote from: MAP on March 03, 2017, 07:11:06 AM
Another great thread Tom!  I'm following along.


Mark,

Thank you, great to have you following along.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 03, 2017, 10:22:29 AM
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 03, 2017, 09:26:32 AM
Quote from: ACL1504 on March 02, 2017, 04:13:27 PM
.....In the repeat photo below, you'll note the cab smoke deflector is missing.....


I wondered what that was..... ???


Greg,


Yepper, now you have the Paul Harvey version of "The Rest of the Story".

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 03, 2017, 10:35:12 AM
The whistle appeared to be in place but as Thom mentioned, it was laying flat. The whistle was broken off at the steam dome. The previous owner or whom ever made the non-repair, used 5 minute epoxy to epoxy the whistle flat on the boiler jacket.

When the loco was stripped in Acetone, the whistle came loose and the epoxy was a gooey mess. I had a new whistle from Cal-Scale for the replacement. I needed to drill out the old whistle tab so the new whistle could be installed and soldered. Again, more pictures would have helped you here.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317102329.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317102329.jpeg)

The front pilot was slightly bent. This repair was fairly simple in nature. Using two pliers, it was realigned. Also, on the pilot, the two air hoses were unsoldered. The area on top of the pilot where the two hoses were initially soldered, was polished and the hoses were resoldered on the original position.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317102348.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317102348.jpeg)

More later this afternoon.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 03, 2017, 03:14:16 PM
The steam pipes leading to the Elesco FWH, both sides and top rear, were either unsoldered or bent. They were bent back to the FWH and resoldered.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103615.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103615.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103627.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103627.jpeg)

More in a few.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 03, 2017, 04:52:30 PM
All the piping under both sides of the cab were either broken/unsoldered or missing. These were all fixed by replacing them with new Cal-Scale parts and or resoldered.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103547.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103547.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103559.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103559.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 03, 2017, 05:00:44 PM
Both versions of this PFM model came without back head details. However, PFM pre-drilled holes in the back head blank and gave a list of parts needed to add the detail. This was PFM, Owner Don Drew's effort to keep the price down a little.

I used the information from the sheet in my own model's box to add these parts. I either soldered them in place, the ones on the cab deck, and from behind on the back head as seen in the photo.

You can also see on the left the new slip grab hand rail I made.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103721.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317103721.jpeg)

At the time of this photo, I couldn't find the firebox doors. I since found one and you will be able to see it in the photo of the painted loco.

More in a few.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 03, 2017, 05:11:44 PM
Here are some needed repairs completed but not shown in photos.

1. The bell bracket was broken and bell was missing. Cal-Scale parts were used to replace these. The new bell            bracket was soldered in place.

2.  All the piping under the air tank located under the left running board was loose. These were all resoldered.

3.  The draw bar was not the correct one. It was after market. I got a new one from PFM.

4.  The side rods on both sides were jammed due to both eccentric cranks being well out of position.

5.  Three of the tabs holding the doghouse on the tender were unsoldered. Repairs made.

6.  The small brass rim around the top of the doghouse was unsoldered. Repair made.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 03, 2017, 05:14:14 PM
Here is a sneak preview of the painted cab interior. You can also see the new firebox door.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317171300.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317171300.jpeg)

Photos of the new loco paint job tomorrow afternoon.

Tom
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 04, 2017, 05:15:50 PM
Here is some information on the locomotive painting.

The inside of the bell and clapper were hand painted using Floquil Signal Red. All the additional items listed below were hand painted with Floquil paints.

All water valves were painted red and I added a bell and whistle cord out of .006 brass wire from Details Associates. The two wire cords were painted with Earth. The exterior window frames were hand painted with Signal Red. The cab interior was spray painted with a mix of Reefer White and Dark Green. Acetate was used for the cab window glass.

The rubber hoses on the pilot and tender were painted using a mix of Rust and Foundation. The bell, whistle and pop valves were painted Brass.

I cut a small piece of paper, rolled it and tied the ends with thread. This was painted with Earth and glued it to the exterior of the cab for a rolled cab tarp.

The main loco was painted with Scalecoat exclusively using my "Langford loco paint mix". Graphite was used for the smoke box and firebox. The tender deck, cab roof and doghouse roof were all painted with Oxide Red.

The cylinder heads on the steam chest, front and edge of the pilot and edges of the running boards were hand painted using Aluminum.

The driver tires and all other wheel rims were hand painted with White. I painted the inside of the headlight White as well.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174313.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174313.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174324.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174324.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174351.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174351.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 04, 2017, 05:17:04 PM
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174337.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174337.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174405.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174405.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174507.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174507.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 04, 2017, 05:17:54 PM
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317171300.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317165604.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174422.jpeg)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 04, 2017, 05:21:28 PM
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174455.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174455.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174256.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174256.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174229.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174229.jpeg)


(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174243.jpeg) (http://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030317174243.jpeg)


What ever happened to this locomotive?

Purchased for $149.99. Repaired, repainted and resold six weeks later on Ebay for $850.00.

Thanks for following along. It was fun reliving the adventure.

Tom
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ak-milw on March 04, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
Excellent work Tom
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: jimmillho on March 04, 2017, 06:42:59 PM
I remember it well.,

Jim
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 05, 2017, 06:52:54 AM
Quote from: ak-milw on March 04, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
Excellent work Tom


Andy,

Much appreciated, thanks for following.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 05, 2017, 06:53:51 AM
Quote from: jimmillho on March 04, 2017, 06:42:59 PM
I remember it well.,

Jim


Jim,

This is one that turned out as planned. Not interested in doing it again that's for sure.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: jerryrbeach on March 05, 2017, 08:33:23 AM
You should do a Makeover Show.  The photos show two completely different locomotives.  Simply amazing!!! 
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: GPdemayo on March 05, 2017, 09:15:55 AM
Love watching the ole' Master at work..... 8)
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: Mkrailway on March 05, 2017, 05:26:16 PM
Drool....
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 05, 2017, 06:02:59 PM
Quote from: jerryrbeach on March 05, 2017, 08:33:23 AM
You should do a Makeover Show.  The photos show two completely different locomotives.  Simply amazing!!!


Jerry,

Thank you for the very kind compliment.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 05, 2017, 06:03:27 PM
Quote from: GPdemayo on March 05, 2017, 09:15:55 AM
Love watching the ole' Master at work..... 8)


Greg,

Thank you, much appreciated.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: ACL1504 on March 05, 2017, 06:04:21 PM
Quote from: MartyO on March 05, 2017, 05:26:16 PM
Drool....


Marty,

I've got your covered and the napkin. Thank you.

Tom ;D
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: MAP on March 08, 2017, 12:23:20 PM
Wow!  That engine  turned out to be a piece of art.  Beautiful.
Title: Re: Another Brass Repair, Detailing and Painting Southern Ms-4 Class 2-8-2
Post by: sdrees on March 08, 2017, 04:17:16 PM
Tom,

The locomotive turned out just beautiful. Thanks for taking the time to post this.