The Modeler's Forum

The Mainline => Kit Building => Topic started by: geoawelch on August 27, 2018, 05:19:55 PM

Title: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 27, 2018, 05:19:55 PM
I've built probably a dozen "super kits" over the years (FSM, FOS, South River, etc). Following the usually great directions resulted in a finished product to be proud of.

As I get back into the hobby after an extended absence due to recurring health issues, I see the many fine smaller kits, especially from Doug at FOS and some other vendors. In fact the recent kitbash by Jason Jensen of three KC Woodshop kits really lit the spark to return.

I would like to know what tips you guys might have for believably assimilating these smaller kits into a believable scene. If you have examples to show, that is even better.

Thanks for your thoughts,

George
Loudon, NH
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: Amagic41 on August 27, 2018, 07:25:28 PM
George
  glad to hear Jasons kit bash of 3 of KC's Workshops smaller less expensive kits help kick start your modeling bug ! Here is an example of 3 shelf orphans I had laying around these were 2 things that never made it to a kit (yet)  and one Marty's (in the middle ) that had been retired (Jason used this one in his kitbash) just to give you an idea


Kenny
KC's Workshop
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: Amagic41 on August 27, 2018, 07:29:29 PM
Here is another with 3 current ones


And also Welcome !!
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: GPdemayo on August 27, 2018, 07:59:41 PM
Welcome to the forum George.  ;D
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: bparrish on August 28, 2018, 02:13:15 AM
George...


Welcome aboard

see ya
Bob
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 28, 2018, 04:42:54 AM
Thanks Kenny, Greg and Bob.

Kenny, I appreciate the examples - for whatever reason, I missed out on the "imagination" gene!!

Regards,

George
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: tom.boyd.125 on August 28, 2018, 08:21:30 AM
George,
Welcome to the Forum...
Tommy
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 28, 2018, 09:34:26 AM
Thanks so much Tommy
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: vinceg on August 28, 2018, 10:15:01 AM
Quote from: geoawelch on August 27, 2018, 05:19:55 PM
I've built probably a dozen "super kits" over the years (FSM, FOS, South River, etc). Following the usually great directions resulted in a finished product to be proud of.

As I get back into the hobby after an extended absence due to recurring health issues, I see the many fine smaller kits, especially from Doug at FOS and some other vendors. In fact the recent kitbash by Jason Jensen of three KC Woodshop kits really lit the spark to return.

I would like to know what tips you guys might have for believably assimilating these smaller kits into a believable scene. If you have examples to show, that is even better.

Thanks for your thoughts,

George
Loudon, NH

Hi George - let me add my welcome as well.

I like this topic and think this is a great idea. For a long time now I have been wondering about how to best utilize commercial kits to populate my railroad. The super kits frequently guide you down the path of building a beautiful diorama. Great to look at but perhaps a bit difficult to integrate into the layout. I can't imagine how I could realistically install 40 or 50 pre-built scenes, each on its own plywood or foam base that's a square foot or two or three. It's even more difficult when some of them are designed to be multi-level to increase interest.

My conclusion is that a useful thing to do (for me, at east) is to effectively build your own super kits out of smaller buildings (Bar Mills, FOS, others as you have mentioned). In fact, it seems like these kit providers are frequently taking that strategy themselves - offering super kits that comprise a few small buildings that can be built individually but offered in a context with some pictures that suggest a larger, completed scene.

Although I still have many FSM, SRMW, and other kits to be built, my plan is to try to build them without the base where possible so that the buildings can be sited more flexibly. Of course, for some kits like the SRMW Rugg Manufacturing kit (I have a build thread in process on that one), this isn't possible or even desirable. But for others I think it will work out.

I didn't answer your question, of course -- I have nothing to show, yet. But I am in the process of trying to create a completed scene for my first town: Monee, Illinois. The plan is to use smaller kits and un-diorama'ed super kits to do that. Will probably take a year, I suspect.

I am also interested in seeing the responses to your post.
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: restocarp on August 28, 2018, 10:35:38 AM
Welcome aboard, George.

On way to help with visualizing a kitbash or scene with multiple buildings is with the use of mockups. For my rowhouse build (http://modelersforum.com/kit-building/walthers-row-house-kitbash-build-challenge-2016/ (http://modelersforum.com/kit-building/walthers-row-house-kitbash-build-challenge-2016/)), in which I supplemented kit parts with scratchbuilt parts, I photocopied the model's parts and glued them to cardstock. This allowed me the ability to slice and dice without ruining the kit walls.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/303-071016053635.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/303-121016055300-17016970.jpeg)

On my current modular layout build (http://modelersforum.com/layout-tours/woodberry-fcsme-module-construction-thread/ (http://modelersforum.com/layout-tours/woodberry-fcsme-module-construction-thread/)), I fabricated mockups of the structures from foam core. Again, this allows me to see the scene in 3d and manipulate it however I want without large expense.

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/303-080818075007-328782400.jpeg)

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/303-080818075008-329081858.jpeg)

Hope this helps,
Matt

Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 28, 2018, 11:20:06 AM
Vince,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Looks like we're on the same page, modeling-wise

Will watch with interest as your town evolves

Have lurked on the thread for Rugg. That and Martin Machine are my favorite of Bob's kits that I've actually built, both now quite a few years ago when they first came out. You're doing a fabulous job.

George
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 28, 2018, 11:21:55 AM
Hi Matt,

The use of mock-ups is a great idea. I have some old cardstock that would fit the bill I think

Thanks also for the kind welcome

George
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: postalkarl on August 28, 2018, 02:16:13 PM
Hey Matt:

I will also be watching.

Karl
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: vinceg on August 28, 2018, 02:35:18 PM
Quote from: geoawelch on August 28, 2018, 11:20:06 AM
Vince,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Looks like we're on the same page, modeling-wise

Will watch with interest as your town evolves

Have lurked on the thread for Rugg. That and Martin Machine are my favorite of Bob's kits that I've actually built, both now quite a few years ago when they first came out. You're doing a fabulous job.

George

Thanks for the kind words, George. I also have Martin Machine (in fact, there are only a couple of Bob's kits that I don't have). That's definitely an example of a kit that doesn't lend itself well to being flattened out. There will be a special peninsula on my layout with some "unintuitive" Illinois topography (hence the "protolancing" comment in my signature.

How about posting some pics of your previous builds? We all love pics.
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: GPdemayo on August 28, 2018, 04:58:26 PM
To your original question, I think the only thoughts I can come up with is to think of how things are done in the 1:1 world.


Find a large kit you really like, then look for others that will make sense residing in the same location. A residential neighborhood will generally only have homes, but in an urban environment, there may be some multi-family or some small retail businesses. It all depends on the location you are modeling.


As long as your backstory is logical to you, that's all that counts.
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 28, 2018, 08:54:37 PM
Quote from: vinceg on August 28, 2018, 02:35:18 PM
Quote from: geoawelch on August 28, 2018, 11:20:06 AM
Vince,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Looks like we're on the same page, modeling-wise

Will watch with interest as your town evolves

Have lurked on the thread for Rugg. That and Martin Machine are my favorite of Bob's kits that I've actually built, both now quite a few years ago when they first came out. You're doing a fabulous job.

George

Thanks for the kind words, George. I also have Martin Machine (in fact, there are only a couple of Bob's kits that I don't have). That's definitely an example of a kit that doesn't lend itself well to being flattened out. There will be a special peninsula on my layout with some "unintuitive" Illinois topography (hence the "protolancing" comment in my signature.

How about posting some pics of your previous builds? We all love pics.

Vince,

I'll dig for some photos. It's been awhile. Meanwhile, here's one that's on my iPad. George Sellios refers to it in his Fabulous Franklin and South Manchester book. It's from the March 1955 RMC And was the basis for Crocker's Feed Mill and a couple other kits. It was a little worse for wear at the time as it had been on a shelf for awhile.

George

Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 28, 2018, 08:56:17 PM
Quote from: GPdemayo on August 28, 2018, 04:58:26 PM
To your original question, I think the only thoughts I can come up with is to think of how things are done in the 1:1 world.


Find a large kit you really like, then look for others that will make sense residing in the same location. A residential neighborhood will generally only have homes, but in an urban environment, there may be some multi-family or some small retail businesses. It all depends on the location you are modeling.


As long as your backstory is logical to you, that's all that counts.

Thanks, Greg.

Good advice.

George
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: Mark Dalrymple on August 29, 2018, 03:24:03 AM
Hi George.

Mock-ups I find to be a huge help.  Even to begin with, placing boxes and cans and bits of this and that to help visualize shapes and the flow of a scene is very useful.  From there the shapes get a bit more fine tuned - carved out of polystyrene or built of MDF or cardboard, and then photocopies of kit walls 'bashed' together, paying no attention to how the kit was meant to be put together or even what kit it is.  In this way I splice together kit walls from different kits, along with scratch-building materials.  At the same time as this I have many different pictures of scenes in mind, collected over the years by camera or from books and magazines - both models and prototypical.  I also try to work from the outside in - mocking up the entire layout to get an overall feel and then honing the smaller scenes.  Super kits are no exception to this - they get chopped and changed just like the smaller kits - always with the overall scene in mind.  If it doesn't fit - make it fit.  I also like to have all my roads, track-work, rivers and land-forms roughed in place, so I actually have a building site to build on with specific heights and boundaries.  In this way you build a lot more like you do in 1:1 scale - planning levels and foundations, retaining walls and vehicle access.

Photos 1-4 show my Tellynott corner diorama coming together.  Planning, roads and land-forms, mock-ups, the scene nearing completion (with many changes along the way)

Another thing I do quite a bit is to use walls from a kit (or several kits) that resemble a prototypical building and use them to create an impression of that building.  I try not to get too caught up on the finer details.  Also - adding extra bits can change the appearance of a kit dramatically.  Different roof shapes, decks, porches, steps, large signs, walk-overs - all change the feel of a structure.  They can also be used to visually join structures into a complex.

Photos 5 & 6 - A Magnuson kit chopped into four separate 'fronts'.  Three have been reconnected curving around a road at grade with  hip roofs added to two - one in corrugated iron, one in tiles.  The forth front has been built as a stand alone structure with lots of add-ons - steps, second story deck and roof, sign, walk-over.

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 29, 2018, 04:43:06 AM
Thank you, Mark. Very helpful ideas and terrific modeling!

George
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: vinceg on August 29, 2018, 08:40:09 AM
Mark - great stuff, thanks!
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: Mark Dalrymple on August 29, 2018, 06:13:46 PM
He is another example.

This is my sketch of a wonderful scene from a New Zealand book - in Hamilton, which no longer exists.

The base assembled showing the road roughed in and the sites of the different buildings.

A view from the top with the buildings in place.

The scene coming together with a combination of mock-ups and buildings under construction.  I modified a DPM kit for the end front and the kit 'Gruesome Casket' was used for the second front.

Cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: ACL1504 on August 29, 2018, 06:31:04 PM
Mark,

I'm a very huge fan of your modeling and layout diorama. I just love the quality of your work. I'm very impressed and it isn't often I hand out this compliment.

Cheers,

Tom  ;D
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 29, 2018, 06:53:05 PM
Mark, correct me is I'm wrong. Have I seen your fine modeling in the Gazette?

George
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: postalkarl on August 29, 2018, 08:00:07 PM
mark:

Looks like this will be and interesting build. Will be following along.

Karl
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: Mark Dalrymple on August 30, 2018, 04:01:26 AM
Thanks you very much, Tom!  Much appreciated.

George - I have had a few photos and a couple of short articles in NZ mags, but nothing in the Gazette.

Karl - I'm itching to get back into the heart of Tellynott - structure building and scene creating - but at present I'm still busy with bench work and ceilings for the layout.  I'm determined to get this finished before I get back into the good stuff!

Cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: bob the builder on August 30, 2018, 02:04:53 PM
After I finish John H Murray's coal, I have been playing with the idea of kit bashing Campbell's Grain Elevator #384 and Montgomery's Feed & Seed #419 with there Grain Storage bin #449 a separate structure. It could be called Campbell Corners Agway , what do ya think?
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: deemery on August 30, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: bob the builder on August 30, 2018, 02:04:53 PM
After I finish John H Murray's coal, I have been playing with the idea of kit bashing Campbell's Grain Elevator #384 and Montgomery's Feed & Seed #419 with there Grain Storage bin #449 a separate structure. It could be called Campbell Corners Agway , what do ya think?

This is one way to think about it.  Get some kits and reason about a likely prototype combination.  I have an old FSM coal dealer, and I'm thinking about combining it with a (Mt Albert?) lumberyard kit and maybe a retail ice house.  Those three industries were often run by the same company. 

dave
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on August 31, 2018, 05:48:14 AM
Quote from: deemery on August 30, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Quote from: bob the builder on August 30, 2018, 02:04:53 PM
After I finish John H Murray's coal, I have been playing with the idea of kit bashing Campbell's Grain Elevator #384 and Montgomery's Feed & Seed #419 with there Grain Storage bin #449 a separate structure. It could be called Campbell Corners Agway , what do ya think?

This is one way to think about it.  Get some kits and reason about a likely prototype combination.  I have an old FSM coal dealer, and I'm thinking about combining it with a (Mt Albert?) lumberyard kit and maybe a retail ice house.  Those three industries were often run by the same company. 

dave


Great way to combine small or large kits.

George
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: S&S RR on August 31, 2018, 08:36:54 AM
This is a great thread - I really enjoy seeing the design process unfold. I find the use of mock-ups to be very helpful in my modeling. The structures and details need to tell a story - a real business or group of businesses supported by a railroad.
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: Dave K. on September 01, 2018, 07:23:11 AM
Yep, bashing craftsman kits is gonna be the fashion, next. The work of Jason Jensen and Frank Varga offer tremendous ideas. I started a bash of two FOS kits into one larger industry to try my hand at it. I need to give mockups a try, too.



Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on September 01, 2018, 09:15:24 AM
Funny how what's old becomes new. Back in the day, Art Curren, Gordon Odegard, Malcolm Furlow, Frary and Hayden et al commonly kitbash do so as not to have the same structure that was on everyone else's layout

George
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: Dave K. on September 01, 2018, 10:20:58 AM
You're right, George...the pendulum swings. Jumping on the bandwagon myself with Altoona Brewery ('17 Expo Kit) and FOS' Mathias Metal.
Title: Re: Combining Less Expensive Kits Into a Scene
Post by: geoawelch on September 01, 2018, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: Dave K. on September 01, 2018, 10:20:58 AM
You're right, George...the pendulum swings. Jumping on the bandwagon myself with Altoona Brewery ('17 Expo Kit) and FOS' Mathias Metal.

Looking forward to this, Dave