A couple years ago I got a good deal on some older Yellow Boxes. On the current layout, I have 2 different locations where I could put a coal dealer. So I dug this kit out, in response to the latest challenge. I can build it in parts, and defer the final assembly until the end. (The two locations I have require the conveyor to be on opposite sides of the structure.) I work slowly, so don't expect frequent updates, but this is my attempt to build something for the winter Tom Schwarz build. (I probably met Tom when I was in Pittsburgh for a couple of their NMRA meets.)
dave
I opened the bag (on the right side in the previous photo) for the 3 Big Bins, and started staining that wood. I'm dipping the pieces in HunterLine Driftwood stain (and I'll probably need at least one more bottle to get all the wood stained.)
After I did the stain on the sheeting, I put some FastTracks jigs on top (nice and level bottom, and the alcohol won't hurt the metal) to try to keep the pieces from warping.
Yup, this kit has A Lot of Sticks.
dave
Looking forward to your build of this one Dave.....I added it to my stash ages ago because it is a neat looking structure and it is smaller than his other coaling facilities. It fit better into the scene I have planned, especially when I added a small office with a truck scale. :)
I'll be following along.
I have a BEST Saratoga Coal (office/scale building) that I built a while ago that will end up on the layout. I'll also do some lumber storage racks and maybe an ice house. Coal, Lumber and Ice often went together.
dave
I love watching builds -- always learning something new.
I'll be following.
Looking forward to following along, I looked this kit up and found a Jacobs Fuel but not a Jacobs Coal. I have the Iam Dunn Coal dealer to do that I hope to start this winter.
First, I sorted the sticks back into bundles by size. Then I started adding the bracing to the bin sides.
You can't have too many clamps, but sometimes you can't have enough! There are 12 side pieces for the 3 bins, and I have enough clamps for 6 of them at a time. The largest pieces were still warped with the 4 outside braces, so I added cross-bracing.
dave
Maybe I'm wrong Dave , but you could either lay each part down with a board and a weight on top of them , or you could clamp each part between 2 boards or other flat panels and thus only needing 1 or 2 clamps.
I have this kit so I'll be following along. Not sure I'll ever build it for space reasons but ya never know.
Yep, you have clamps to spare.
Tom ;D
I'll be following along on this build as well Dave. I have a few yellow boxes, but not this one. Still always something to learn while watching a build of one of these kits. I am also of the mind that you can't have too many clamps. I've tried using weights like Janbouli recommended, but sometimes the pieces slide a bit, and you don't find out until it's dry that there's a mismatch. I do use his idea of using boards or Parallel blocks for stretching across longer pieces, although I do use larger clamps to reach the center as you're doing.
Dave,
I'll be following because I love George's kits and also because I learn something new when I read through your threads on the other forum.
This is a great old kit and it is HUGE. I built it for rebel a few years back. I wonder did he ever put it on his layout. I followed Sellios' instructions on how to weather the structure. It called for using oil paints thinned with turpentine or mineral spirits if I recall. The effect was really nice even though it stunk up my den. Given there are three identical large bins it can get repetitive and tedious. I had fun building it. I didn't get to build the whole diorama as I shipped it to rebel all the way to California in several pieces. That was a challenge in itself.
I'm interested to see how you fit it into your layout. It takes up a huge amount of real estate.
Jaime
Quote from: Janbouli on November 18, 2018, 05:23:54 AM
Maybe I'm wrong Dave , but you could either lay each part down with a board and a weight on top of them , or you could clamp each part between 2 boards or other flat panels and thus only needing 1 or 2 clamps.
I've done that on other kits. But you run the risk of the parts slipping, and that's happened to me several times. After the glue has started to set, placing them underneath a weight and recovering my clamps would work. But at the speed I go, doing 6 walls in one evening is about right :-(
The thing that makes this kit so big is the sloped elevator/conveyor structure. I thought about doing a different elevator, maybe something more vertical. I'll build that part last, so I'll defer any re-engineering until then.
dave
The footprint referenced in the instructions I believe is 13 in. by 19 in. where 19 in. is the direction of the slanted conveyor. If you could model the conveyor off the layout or with a more vertical solution you could fit this in roughly one square foot.
Jaime
Now the limiting factor is set-up blocks, and to a lesser degree workbench space. I'll probably get the 3rd bin set up later tonight.
dave
Dave
I will be following along - I built this kit a couple years ago and was real happy with the way it turned out - there is a thread here on the forum. You will never have enough clamps, weights or workbench space.
Quote from: S&S RR on November 18, 2018, 08:44:39 PM
You will never have enough clamps, weights or workbench space.
I gotta get me some more - I don't have even as many as Dave's picture! :o :o :o LOL!
Looking forwarding to seeing your progress, Dave!
R/,
Norm
When it comes to those 1-handed clamps, buy only the name brand (Irvin). The others, even the ones I got from Sears a couple years ago, are nowhere near as good. I use the small ones a lot.
dave
That must have been a real chore to get all those clamps on each piece without any piece falling out of position.
Quote from: Lynnb on November 19, 2018, 01:02:51 PM
That must have been a real chore to get all those clamps on each piece without any piece falling out of position.
The process is to use the angle blocks to get one end into position. Then I put the two sides on, and square them up with the 1-2-3 blocks. The other angle block positions the other end. Now things are held squarely in position, and I can add the clamps. You can't see it underneath all the junk, but I'm working on top of a piece of glass, so that ensures the base is perfectly flat.
dave
Thanks Dave, I have 4 123 blocks that I have learned to use quite a bit , they have been coming in quite handy.
Quote from: Lynnb on November 19, 2018, 04:02:34 PM
Thanks Dave, I have 4 123 blocks that I have learned to use quite a bit , they have been coming in quite handy.
Angle blocks are like clamps, you can't have too many! I use them for set-up and as weights.
dave
The bins are assembled, and I'm starting on the trestles underneath the bins. I have a 1" thick x 8" x 12" piece of balsa. I put the plans over that, and then wax paper on top to keep glue from sticking. Balsa sticks and sharp (dressmakers or insect) pins hold everything in place.
And the bents are all done.
dave
Dave,
This is coming along very nicely. Thanks for the great tips on using the 1-2-3 blocks before clamping. Great tip re: the thick Balsa underneath the plans and then using pins to hold the pieces in alignment when assembling the trestle bents.
Hey Dave:
Looks great so far. Keep the pics flowing.
Karl
Dave,
Pretty neat trick! I'll have to keep that in mind, using the wood & wax paper.
Query: These trestle bents eventually get NBW casting? I'm not being critical, just curious if that's something that gets added later.
R/,
Norm
Quote from: ndwolf68 on November 21, 2018, 10:22:54 AM
Dave,
Pretty neat trick! I'll have to keep that in mind, using the wood & wax paper.
Query: These trestle bents eventually get NBW casting? I'm not being critical, just curious if that's something that gets added later.
R/,
Norm
In The Real World, they'd have NBW. But these'll be mostly hidden underneath the bins. I'll probably do NBW on the outside bracing, where it's visible.
dave
Hey Dave looks real good. Nice coloring.
Jerry
Very nice modeling.
Dave,
Great job, love the coloring as well. Nice tutorial on the build.
Tom ;D
Dave, the trestle bents look great. I always like to see those types of structures, and in particular when they are done well.
George
Coloring the bins... First I tried an oil paint stain, but I didn't like the result. That's in part because I didn't really have the right color (red oxide, all I had was burnt umber.) So then I went to Pan Pastels. I applied some pastel with a brush, and then spread it with a rag dipped in paint thinner. That gave me an overall faded look.
The next step was to 'coal-ify' the bins. I did that with dark neutral grey (NOT black) Pan Pastel. I applied this by brushing from the bottom up, and did some spreading with my finger (so it's less even.)
I also did the framing timbers with the Pan Pastel. The kit calls for little pieces of wood to simulate the timbers that go through the bins. I -should have colored them first-, but I cut them first. So I stained them with black oil paint in paint thinner, adding paint until it was strong enough. I think the color should be close enough, and if not I can always go back and do some Pan Pastel after assembly.
But for now things are drying, and I'll pick up tomorrow.
dave
Dave,
I am always interested when I see a modeler use Pan Pastels. I have to say your results look absolutely outstanding. I am getting closer to actually buying some and trying to learn to use them effectively. I'm glad to see them used by you and appreciate the description of how you achieved such a realistic result with them.
Nice tip with the wax paper. Although I've never used the Pan Pastels I have followed others that used them , didn't realize the were a friendly partner with paint thinner and I would imagine the others such as acetone . I had a brain fart yesterday and was making a wash with paint thinner and black acrylic, WRONG! Quickly remembered its Floquil Black and paint thinner I needed . Have you tried the Pan Pastels making a sort of wash using paint thinner, something to thin the pastels and perhaps push them along? I would imagine the pan Pastels can also be tinted or shaded as well using other colors of the Pastels.
Enough rambling, keep the tips and pics coming . ;D
I have not tried mixing Pan Pastels with enough thinner to make a wash. But I've done similar things with regular pigments and with ground chalks/pastels (which don't have the binders that Pan Pastels have.) I think pigments and solvents (including alcohol) is a better choice. If you go to YouTube and look for 'pigment wash' you'll find a lot of stuff from the armor modeling community. They do great weathering!
dave
Turns out putting the external bracing on the bins is harder than I thought! Because there are 3 bins, you have to get the positioning exactly right (aligned and parallel to the ground), otherwise your eye picks up any discrepancy.
Next I have to add the little stubs representing the sills that go through the bins. There are 72 of them, and I figured trying to get them all properly lined up would drive me crazy, so I built a jig. I cut the slots for the stubs, and then glued that extra styrene strip down to ensure the stubs are tight against the sill underneath.
And the results...
dave
Quote from: Lynnb on November 22, 2018, 10:15:49 AM
Nice tip with the wax paper. Although I've never used the Pan Pastels I have followed others that used them , didn't realize the were a friendly partner with paint thinner and I would imagine the others such as acetone . I had a brain fart yesterday and was making a wash with paint thinner and black acrylic, WRONG! Quickly remembered its Floquil Black and paint thinner I needed . Have you tried the Pan Pastels making a sort of wash using paint thinner, something to thin the pastels and perhaps push them along? I would imagine the pan Pastels can also be tinted or shaded as well using other colors of the Pastels.
Enough rambling, keep the tips and pics coming . ;D
Lynn
I use alcohol with Pan Pastels, Rembrandt Pastel Chalks, and Vallejo pigments. Works great.
Norm asked about NBWs. The FSM instructions show a 'metal' plate with an NBW. That would make sense for an iron/steel tension rod. But I'm not sure why the tension rod would be needed in addition to the sill running in the same direction. And coal generates carbonic acid, which eats out iron/steel (that's a big problem on coal gondolas.) So instead I did NBWs to represent bolts connecting the the sills running in each direction. That took A LOT of NBWs, I was down to my last sprue when I finished. Fortunately Tichy is having a sale right now so I can replenish my stock.
Finishing the nubs representing sills that run through the bins, and then adding NBWs top and bottom wherever the sills crossed took up an afternoon.
dave
After -3- attempts to get the sills the bins sit on over the trestle bents, including a bunch of jigs, etc, I've given up for the evening. I need to rethink this! The problem is these sills are the only thing that hold the bents, and they're a huge structural weak spot in the model.
Part of my problem is that I keep on cutting or assembling the damn things upside down! I've made 2 extra sets of the sills (thankfully I have the right size stripwood), and will have to make yet another set, once I figure out how I'm going to do this.
But for now, it's time to step away from the workbench!
dave
Excellent work Dave. Aluminum foil will work also (what I use).
Dave, beautiful work on the bins and bracing. Hope your modeling muse visits and leaves inspiration for getting them successfully installed.
George
A quick update. Here's the problem. As George designed the kit, that big black joist is critical. It holds the trestle bents in alignment, and the bin sits on top of them. (3 Sets, one for each bin.) The joists have to be notched for the top piece on the trestle bents.
The kit provides 2 outside joists, and then a cross piece at top and bottom inside those joists (2nd photo). From a structural perspective, this would be a No-Go, there's nothing holding up the bottom of the bins.
Each time i tried making this assembly, I screwed something up. Either I cut the notches on the wrong side of the joists, or I assembled it incorrectly.
My plan going forward is to rip-cut a triangle shaped piece that will go on top of the trestle bents, with the hypotenuse at the correct angle for the joists. Then I'll cut a series of joists (with no notches), and glue them onto those triangles. (I'll drill some holes through those pieces into the trestle bents, and pin them with .025 phosophor-bronze wire. This will add substantial rigidity to the assembly, which otherwise would be a bit rickety.) Finally, when I'm ready, I'll glue the bins onto these pieces (or more accurately, turn the bins upside down, and glue the bent and joist assembly onto the bins.) I just hope I have enough wood for the 3 sets of joists (and I need to figure out the spacing for them, which in part will depend on how much wood I have :-) ) I'll tackle this starting tomorrow (Steelers are on TV this afternoon, and earlier today I went to 2 "Tour de Chooch" layouts.)
dave
Dave beautiful coloring!
Jerry
I agree with Jerry, nice color. There must be quite a bit of reading and rereading before making a move.
A quick update: After mulling over my failures, I came up with Plan B. I cut triangle-shaped pieces that fit on top of the top chord of the trestle bents. I'll cut and glue (straight pieces) sills on top of those. I built a jig to hold the bents in position for when I do that gluing. Another update probably this weekend, lots of other things going on this week (including moving food donations, my wife volunteered my pick-up and me :-) )
dave
Dave I can understand the mistakes irking you, I've gone back after a year to fix something that I didn't feel right about , and usually after seeing how someone else did a technique.
I'm back onto the Jacob's Coal build. The challenge for the last week has been figuring out how to assemble the trestle bents. I made a jig and wedged the bents into the jig to hold them into position for (a) the cross bracing and then later this week (b) the (sloped) sills underneath the bins. Once the glue dries, I'll drill for the NBW castings and then do the other side of cross bracing. 3 of these in total to assemble.
Anyone know of a better jig for this?
dave
Between 'decking the halls' and having to stop and re-glue the occasional piece that broke loose, I've been making Very Slow progress but should finish the trestles tomorrow. The NBW castings are on order and should be here next week to finish up the bins.
Photos once I glue the bins onto the trestles.
dave
Trestle bents are finished. Here's one bin set on one of the bents. I didn't get around to gluing the bins on tonight, will tackle that tomorrow. Then I'll start on the 'attic' above the bins.
dave
Looks great.
Bins are on the trestles, but they're not glued to the cardboard top (which is also the floor of the 'machinery attic'.) At least one of the trestles has a center bent that's out of square, but hopefully that won't be noticeable. There -has to be- a way to assemble these so they're square, plumb, and properly aligned. The jig I built wasn't very effective.
The way I assembled these was to put a bit of Walthers Goo in the middle of the center trestle top, and normal wood-to-wood glue (I'm using NESL Flamingo Glue) on the rest of the trestle tops. The Goo has a lot more tack, so it sticks to the sloped bins, and gives me plenty of position time before I add weights to let the wood glue set up.
dave
Dave,
Wow, great job on the build. The weathering looks fantastic.
Tom ;D
I've colored the attic walls. I wanted this to look like weathered red oxide, but also make it look as if this weathered differently than the lumber in the coal bins. First I put some HunterLine Driftwood stain. Then I applied Pan Pastels red oxide. Then I immediately went over that with HunterLine Blue Grey. Once that dried, I touched up the Pan Pastel red oxide. I also spray-painted the metal window castings a wood-like primer color, and then red oxide.
dave
Dave,
This is looking great. The colors and weathering on both the bins and attic look wonderful.
Hey Dave:
Looks great so far. Keep the pics coming.
Karl
The colors are really popping out, I just had a terrible vision of the mess one of those pan pastels could make if it tipped. :o
The bins look great , could you not turn it over and sand the uneven edges to square up on a glass with sand paper? Probably won't even notice once its all together, I'm sure I woun't look for it now that you mentioned it. ;D
The bin tops are pretty square, I have a stone tile (not ceramic, stone is honed perfectly flat) covered with sandpaper that I used to even out the trestle bents as well as the tops and bottoms of the bins. A little bit of weight and the cardboard roof will fit quite well. The attic will hide any imperfections along the top.
The good news is I got my Tichy order yesterday. The bad news is I ordered the wrong part, so I'll have to order the right part (those 12" square washers for the bins.) Don ships very quickly, so I can continue the attic construction. I just won't be able to glue the bins to the cardboard subroof until after the correct NBWs are done.
dave
Looking good Dave. Nice coloring.
Jerry
Assembling the attic... When building a box, I like to assemble two L-shaped legs, and then glue them together. Lots of bracing in this, both from the FSM kit and some I added.
To do the windows, I first primed with a wood colored primer (airbrushed). Then I airbrushed some red oxide. After the paint cured, I sprayed A&I on the castings and let that evaporate and cure. (Alcohol will soften the acrylic, so I wanted to let the alcohol flash off and acrylic re-cure.) I applied glazing. Then to get that "dusty look" on both sides, I applied some dark grey Pan Pastels. On the back side, first I lightly coated the "glass" with a flat glaze (Vallejo), then I used a make-up sponge to pat the dark grey Pan Pastel. (I tried applying Pan Pastel to the styrene glazing, but it didn't stick, so that's why I put the matte glaze paint on it first.) Then I went back and wiped off the excess dark grey Pan Pastel from the window frames. Net result matches the wood pretty closely, with a little bit of difference reflecting the different woods used on the window framing vs the attic wall. Finally, I did a test-fit on top of the bins.
Next step, shingles on the attic roofs.
dave
Hi Dave:
She's looking good. keep the photo coming.
Karl
Looks great Dave.
I assembled the loading dock deck, loading dock roof supports,subroof/rafters, and primed the castings from the 'loading dock' bag. And the correct NBW castings should be here Friday.
dave
Dave
This is really looking nice.
The -correct- NBWs arrived today, and were installed. I glued the coal chutes onto the bins, using 5 minute epoxy. Those tend to want to tip over, so there's weights to hold them in place until the glue dries.
Next, I opened the parts bag for the conveyor. I need to study the drawings, there's some stuff about the conveyor design that kinda bother me.
Update: Here's the conveyor leaning against the structure, with the loading dock leaning too. It's starting to look like something.
dave
Dave its really coming together. Great job on this build.
Jerry
I didn't like how the conveyor shed looked, too much obvious wood grain. So I 'painted' it with sanding sealer and then sanded a bit, and went back and re-applied Pan Pastels. I re-cut the conveyor shed angles so the shed follows the same slope as the lower attic roof (not sure why this was at a different angle on the original kit.) Also, I cut the construction paper strips and glued them on the conveyor as roofing paper.
Most importantly, I needed to decide where to put this on the layout, since that impacts which side I put the conveyor shed onto. Here's where I think it'll go. One reason I want this kit in this location is the vertical and diagonal will help hide the (too) steep slopes.
dave
Looks really nice Dave.
I must say conveyer shed looks much better after making the adjustment.
I started (scratchbuilding) a small ice house for part of the coal/ice/lumber dealer.
dave
Ice House is mostly done. I'm waiting for Bar Mills shingles for the entire complex, plus I need to do the ice hauling mechanism in front of the doors. Then final weathering. The white ice house should make a nice contrast with the dusty red coal tower. I need to finish the coal tower, and then do the lumber part of the complex.
dave
Bar Mills shingles should be here tomorrow (they don't have that far to come from Maine to NH...)
dave
Very nice, Dave. Great work.
John
After a lot of painting, shaping, fiddling (and regluing bracing that came loose), the roofs are on the attic and ice house. Next step is to glue the bins to the cardboard underneath the attic, right now the attic is just sitting loose on top of the bins. Then I need to think about mounting this to a diorama base.
The Bar Mills shingles worked out great! I drybrushed them with a light buff color and a slightly darker beige color, this provides both highlights and wood tones to the shingles.
dave
Looking good Dave.
Looks good Dave.
Nice little ice house. This really taking shape now.
Jerry
Hinges on the ice house doors, and the conveyor shed. At first I built a nice annex with the idea of putting a smoke stack to indicate a boiler, but when it was almost done, I realized it was 180 degrees out, because I put the conveyor on the other side of the bins! So I ended up salvaging the shack without the annex. Yet Another Senior Moment...
dave
A small but fussy part done, the trestle bents for the conveyor.
dave
Hey Dave:
Nice work. Looks just great.
Karl
Some more little stuff... I added the support on the bins for the roof, so I can show the porch and its roof in place (not glued together yet.) I painted the drop grate on the side of the conveyor. Not shown, I added a post on the roof of the ice house to hold a block. I thought hard about how they'd get the ice into the ice house, and decided a block from the roof, with either human or horsepower to haul the ice up, would work. That orange paint is just a primer, I need to get some "dirt colored" paint tomorrow to start on the scenery.
I ordered a couple of the new Owl Mountain lumber stacks to "populate" the lumber part of the installation. Also, I decided they'll sell slate shingles, so I need to find a source for those, too. (That's because I saw a sign on a 19th century dealer for "coal, lumber and shingles.")
dave
Dave,
I agree, very nice build of Jacobs Coal. The addition of the ice house is also well done. Great job all the way.
Tom ;D
PostalKarl talked about how he's making structures less weathered these days. My goal is to make them 'appropriately weathered', acknowledging that in the 19th century, labor was cheap and many structures were very well maintained (particularly railroad structures.) Others, though, reflect the fact that a lot more people lived at or near the poverty level. For this coal dealer, I wanted a structure that reflected a fair amount of coal dust, but was in reasonably good repair. So I'm thinking everything was painted barn red when it was first built, but that was maybe 10 years earlier. I do need to add some appropriate weathering to the ice house, my thought is this is a newer structure.
dave
Coming along nicely, all the little things and thoughts your putting into the build are going to pay off in a big way. I like the way you think about how the building (s) may have looked back then.
Details on the ice house. My thought is they put 2x10 across the gap where the doors are, except when they need access to the bottom door. I'll add those after I add ice to the loading dock.
I also worked on the Gaterboard base. That definitely needs more work.
dave
Well, all that detail in the front of the ice house won't show if I leave this in its currently planned position :-\
dave