Off on my second brass painting adventure. This one is an B&O RR. E-27 class consolidation. This model was made by Atlas and imported by PFM in 1975. PFM imported a total of 2601 of these between 1967 and 1975. The 1967 model sold new for $55.00 and the 1975 model sold for $180.00. This model, the 1975 version has plastic brake shoes.
Our resident B&O Guy, Chip Stevens, will probably watch this one.
I have already taken it apart and forgot to take a loco photo. Here is the 1969 version from the 13th Edition of the PFM catalog.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-280320151853.jpeg)
Two years ago I installed DCC WOW sound and have removed the decoder. Many years ago I also installed a new 20 X 32mm Sagami can motor. I've never had a problem with the PFM gear boxes so I left this one as is.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-280320151904.jpeg)
More in a few.
I removed all the parts as shown below. I'll refer to this photo tomorrow for some added information on taking brass locos apart.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-280320151924.jpeg)
The loco has been stripped and cleaned in an Acetone bath and is now ready for painting. I'll get to the painting tomorrow.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-280320151935.jpeg)
Continued -
In the catalog photo above, the decals appear white but the B&O used Delux Gold lettering. The photo may be correct but the photography may have it appear white.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-290320180126.jpeg)
About year out from Champ Decal Company closing, I order three sets of all the decals I thought I may need or use. I was winding down my customer base brass painting and didn't want to be caught short. I did the same with Floquil and Scalecoat paints.
I did get decals for all the brass locos I had at the time. Since then, I've sold off a considerable amount of the brass but still have the decals. I gave a set of decals for the locos I sold.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-290320180137.jpeg)
More tomorrow.
I've done several paint jobs on this forum and the other forum and there is one thing I haven't covered. Not sure why, but I just haven't.
The information I'm about to give is critical if you have a an old/older brass loco and you are considering jumping in and giving it a paint job and or taking it apart.
Just like the prototype, a model brass loco with considerable running time develops a wear pattern. The side rods and side rod screws over time get worn to a certain pattern. So, when taking it apart make very sure you have the parts set aside just as they were removed from the loco. The critical part is to put it back the way it came apart. You definitely want the wear pattern to stay the same.
From experience, I can say it isn't fun to try to figure what side rod goes where when it it back together and running like the old dog with a severe limp.
This B&O loco came out in 1975 and has been run with both DC and last year TCS WOW sound. It does have a wear pattern. I've owned it since 1976.
In the photo below you can see I have all the side rods, main rods, journal springs, brake shoes and eccentric crank and reversing rods on the same side as they were removed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181019.jpeg)
You also want the drivers in the same order. On this loco the driver with the gear and the main driver are pretty easy to get correct. However, the front and rear drivers are the same and came easily get switched.
More in a few.
Fast forward here and I'm ready to reassemble the loco starting with the frame and all that goes onto it. I'm almost putting it back in the order it was all removed, but not quite. I'll cover that when I get to it.
I painted the loco, baked the paint and when cool sprayed on a coat of semi-flat and then baked that coat as well. My semi-flat makes it look used but not necessarily abused.
With a Q-tip dipped into Acetone, I removed the paint from the journal openings and the bottom of the frame.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181039.jpeg)
I then reinstalled the plastic brake shoes. These I removed as I didn't want to bake them. Some plastic shoes won't melt and some do, no chance taken here. I left the brake shoes loose and will tighten them after the four drivers are installed.
The brake shoes weren't painted as they will get weathered later. The brass screw heads will be touched up later as well.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181051.jpeg)
Continued -
And on the same day Pennsylvania decided to reopen the State stores for home delivery! Does it get any better?
Thanks for thinking of me Tom. I've quickly realized two things:
The dismantling scares the daylights out of me.
I'd better learn a whole lot here, as actually painting the loco and re-assembling this jewel also scares the out of me. I guess I could leave it in pieces for my estate to worry about it if all else fails.
Bye the bye Tom, you don't by any chance have a Reading T-1 waiting in the wings? I know ReadingBob might also be interested.
This next photo show the front driver being installed after the front journal springs were set in place.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181102.jpeg)
The frame base plate was then screwed in place. At this time is when I added one drop of Labelee #108 oil to each of the axles at the journals. Eight journals and eight oil drops. You don't want to over oil the axles as rest assured it will find its way to the paint.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181112.jpeg)
I did a glass roll test and all was nice and smooth with no binds.
Continued -
Quote from: BandOGuy on April 02, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
And on the same day Pennsylvania decided to reopen the State stores for home delivery! Does it get any better?
Thanks for thinking of me Tom. I've quickly realized two things:
The dismantling scares the daylights out of me.
I'd better learn a whole lot here, as actually painting the loco and re-assembling this jewel also scares the out of me. I guess I could leave it in pieces for my estate to worry about it if all else fails.
Bye the bye Tom, you don't by any chance have a Reading T-1 waiting in the wings? I know ReadingBob might also be interested.
Chip,
You are very welcome. I remember my first brass paint job. After taking a NWSL USRA 0-6-0 apart to paint and getting it all back together, I thought, "Is this it, it wasn't as hard or as scary as I first thought."
Reading Bob has a BLI T-1 I weathered but I don't think he has a brass one.
If you have yours apart and can't get it back together, send it to me and I'll put it back together for you.
Tom ;D
This is the part where I changed from the reassembly order. At this time is when I would normally reattach the side rods and side rods screws.
Instead, I installed the pilot assembly.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181125.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181136.jpeg)
Continued -
I next attached the steam chest and cylinders. The brass screw holds the steam chest and the pilot in place.
The clearance where the frame forks fit into the bottom of the pilot was so close it was necessary for me to scrap some paint off the forks. It won't show but I'll touch this up with paint as well.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181148.jpeg)
I then added the side and main rods to the drivers.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-020420181202.jpeg)
I'll add more of the assembly tomorrow. Thanks for ya'll following.
I forgot to mention the catalog photo I first showed of the B&O 2-8-0 has the cab number of 2803.
According to my B&O RR steam roster, there never was a 2803 on the E27 class consolidation. In fact none of the B&O 2-8-0 locos carried the number 2803.
Just so you know.
Quote from: BandOGuy on April 02, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
The dismantling scares the daylights out of me.
I don't think taking one of these apart would scare me at all. ::) Putting it back together again, on the other hand.... :o
As Tom mentioned I have a beautifully weathered BLI Reading T1. It has been a while since it has had the change to stretch its legs though. Looks like it's going to be a little while longer to. :'(
The only brass engine I own is a small camel back that I bought from Jim Miller years ago. It's not a quality piece though and doesn't even look like a match to any I can find in my Reading books. But hey, I can say I own a brass engine. ;D
As usual this is a fascinating thread Tom. Nothing I'll ever tackle but fun to follow along none the less.
Nice job on this one Tom - are using the Scalecoat on the driver faces as well?
Doug
This recent addition to your thread is the exact reason I don't want to mess with brass locos. Like Bob, it's the putting back together that is my big problem. :-[
As a kid, I loved taking things apart to see how they were made, but I always had 1 or 2 pieces (or more) left over when it was reassembled. That's why I never got involved with mechanical things like cars.....I wanted to live to be an adult, which would not have happened if I took things apart in my car and then tried to drive it afterwards. Same for a home made airplane, except someone besides me, on the ground, might meet an untimely demise when the plane falls out of the sky. :(
As an adult, I can cause a residential or commercial building, with thousands of parts, to be put together, but I still don't want to mess with a pricey brass engine.
I'll leave that to experts like you..... ;)
Greg.....
You said that often you had parts left over................... did it work when you got it back together ? ? ?
If yes then the thing had too many parts to start with.
see.............. simple
see y a
Bob
Hey Tom:
Looking just great so far. I'm following along.
Karl
Quote from: ReadingBob on April 02, 2020, 07:04:00 PM
Quote from: BandOGuy on April 02, 2020, 06:32:09 PM
The dismantling scares the daylights out of me.
I don't think taking one of these apart would scare me at all. ::) Putting it back together again, on the other hand.... :o
As Tom mentioned I have a beautifully weathered BLI Reading T1. It has been a while since it has had the change to stretch its legs though. Looks like it's going to be a little while longer to. :'(
The only brass engine I own is a small camel back that I bought from Jim Miller years ago. It's not a quality piece though and doesn't even look like a match to any I can find in my Reading books. But hey, I can say I own a brass engine. ;D
As usual this is a fascinating thread Tom. Nothing I'll ever tackle but fun to follow along none the less.
Bob,
Appreciate you following along on this adventure. Really, taking apart and putting it all back together isn't that bad. Well, ok, maybe! I've done so many it just seems like second nature to me.
Tom ;D
Quote from: NKP768 on April 03, 2020, 12:04:04 AM
Nice job on this one Tom - are using the Scalecoat on the driver faces as well?
Doug
Doug,
Thank you. I use Scalecoat on all brass parts. The driver faces were also painted separately and after a semi-flat coat was applied and baked, the tires were cleaned with a Q-tip and Acetone.
Tom ;D
Quote from: GPdemayo on April 03, 2020, 08:52:21 AM
This recent addition to your thread is the exact reason I don't want to mess with brass locos. Like Bob, it's the putting back together that is my big problem. :-[
As a kid, I loved taking things apart to see how they were made, but I always had 1 or 2 pieces (or more) left over when it was reassembled. That's why I never got involved with mechanical things like cars.....I wanted to live to be an adult, which would not have happened if I took things apart in my car and then tried to drive it afterwards. Same for a home made airplane, except someone besides me, on the ground, might meet an untimely demise when the plane falls out of the sky. :(
As an adult, I can cause a residential or commercial building, with thousands of parts, to be put together, but I still don't want to mess with a pricey brass engine.
I'll leave that to experts like you..... ;)
Greg,
Thank you for the kind compliment on the B&O painting. When we do yours hopefully we won't have any parts left over.
Tom ;D
Quote from: bparrish on April 03, 2020, 03:28:55 PM
Greg.....
You said that often you had parts left over................... did it work when you got it back together ? ? ?
If yes then the thing had too many parts to start with.
see.............. simple
see y a
Bob
Bob,
A perfect question and observation my friend. 8)
Tom ;D
Quote from: postalkarl on April 03, 2020, 04:01:57 PM
Hey Tom:
Looking just great so far. I'm following along.
Karl
Karl,
Thank you my friend, much appreciated.
Tom ;D
The chassis and all moving parts are now back on. Notice the brass screw heads are now black.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030420180723.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030420180737.jpeg)
Let me bore you with some locomotive speak here. I've seen many model locos where the eccentric crank is/was incorrectly set.
The correct position of the eccentric crank is basically set by the valve gear. On a brass model, I've always followed the premise that the eccentric crank follow or leads the main crank pin by 90 degrees.
I usually set the eccentric crank at about 15 degrees off the center of the axle.
I'll do a short, very short video on how this works in the next few days.
Continued -
On this loco the automatic oiler arm was riveted to the oiler as shown in the photo below.
The red pencil is pointing to the rivet. I'll mention this in the video and show all the parts connected to the rivet. Anyway, these parts had to be taped separately so I could paint the cylinders and steam chest.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-030420180750.jpeg)
Until tomorrow and remember, always keep your steam up.
Tom ;D
I'm not ready to take apart any of my brass yet, but these posts are sure serving as a detailed explanation of what's involved!!
dave
Quote from: deemery on April 03, 2020, 06:46:15 PM
I'm not ready to take apart any of my brass yet, but these posts are sure serving as a detailed explanation of what's involved!!
dave
Dave,
I'm happy to see you are following along. Especially glad this is helping as we move along.
Tom ;D
I mentioned above about doing a short video on the correct position of the eccentric crank in relation to the main driver main crank pin.
It took me a few days to get to it but alas, here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28CGRowaJZQ&t=3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28CGRowaJZQ&t=3s)
Basic painting is now finished. Once the sound is reinstalled and the loco back together, it will get weathered.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-060420170327.jpeg)
The two rerailers on the tender are a mix of Floquil Rust and Zinc Chromate.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-060420170340.jpeg)
Continued -
Although this model is B&O, it didn't have the standard B&O smoke box herald so I used a small B&O decal.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-060420170351.jpeg)
The cab numbers are all separate numbers. The arm rest is Floquil Freight Car brown and the cab windows are Floquil Signal Red. The canvas shade is Model Master Dark Tan.
The bell and whistle cords are Floquil Earth.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-060420170403.jpeg)
Continued -
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-060420170416.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-060420170556.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-060420170611.jpeg)
Hey Tom:
It looks great. Looks like you know what you are doing with decals.
Karl
Smooooth as buttah.
Great job Tom.....can't wait to get down there and run that little beauty thru Tahope. 8)
Quote from: bparrish on April 03, 2020, 03:28:55 PM
Greg.....
You said that often you had parts left over................... did it work when you got it back together ? ? ?
If yes then the thing had too many parts to start with.
see.............. simple
see y a
Bob
Bob.....the simple answer is an embarrassed "I don't know". :-[
I did it over 35 years ago an I think it kind of sputtered for a foot or so and died. It is still in pieces in a box somewhere.
Quote from: postalkarl on April 06, 2020, 05:23:39 PM
Hey Tom:
It looks great. Looks like you know what you are doing with decals.
Karl
Karl,
Thank you, I appreciate you looking in on the thread.
Over the years I've learned a few tricks to getting the decals to lay flat and appear to be painted on.
Tom ;D
Quote from: Oldguy on April 06, 2020, 11:12:29 PM
Smooooth as buttah.
Bob,
Thank you very much brothah! 8)
Tom ;D
Quote from: GPdemayo on April 07, 2020, 09:42:12 AM
Great job Tom.....can't wait to get down there and run that little beauty thru Tahoppe. 8)
Greg,
Thank you Butty. You can run it slowly through TAHOPE.
Tom ;D
Quote from: ACL1504 on April 12, 2020, 11:28:12 AM
Quote from: GPdemayo on April 07, 2020, 09:42:12 AM
Great job Tom.....can't wait to get down there and run that little beauty thru Tahoppe. 8)
Greg,
Thank you Butty. You can run it slowly through TAHOPE.
Tom ;D
okaaaaay ;)
I've added a few more details and now all is ready for the TCS WOW install.
The front air hose has been painted and marker jewels were also installed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-120420112222.jpeg)
Cab windows were installed using clear Mylar/Acetate, cab crew were install and cab curtains were added.
After the sound is installed, I'll weather the loco and post photos at that time.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-120420112232.jpeg)
Continued -
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-120420112244.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-120420112256.jpeg)
DCC WOW sound is now installed and working properly. Only weathering and the coal load is missing. Coal load to be installed tomorrow.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-210420155944.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-210420155957.jpeg)
Continued -
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-210420160339.jpeg)
The judge built this Silver Streak B&O caboose some 40+ years ago. This caboose is now assigned to the E27. Note the little separation between the end and side walls?This was common after several years on Silver Streak models. Looks pretty dang good for a very old model.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-210420160350.jpeg)
Continued -
The Judge has requested that my next brass painting be the C&O H-5 2-6-6-2.
I'll be doing a separate thread for this one.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-210420160539.jpeg)
Thanks for the instruction and inspiration, Tom.
This is one of my favorite locos. The H-5 was of USRA design and had drivers a little larger than the more famous H-6, the last of which is in the B&O Museum in Baltimore. This old hog could really pull those coal hoppers up and down the mountains. The painted, finished model ought to be an outstanding addition to the A&S as another example of a Central Florida railroad leasing needed steam power to lug heavy trains up the Ovalix. Four miles an hour, five miles an hour, who cares! Greg will have to keep his hands off of this one!
Quote from: BandOGuy on April 21, 2020, 05:08:22 PM
Thanks for the instruction and inspiration, Tom.
Chip,
You are very welcome and I'm happy I got your firebox hot. 8)
Tom ;D
Quote from: Judge on April 21, 2020, 05:34:34 PM
This is one of my favorite locos. The H-5 was of USRA design and had drivers a little larger than the more famous H-6, the last of which is in the B&O Museum in Baltimore. This old hog could really pull those coal hoppers up and down the mountains. The painted, finished model ought to be an outstanding addition to the A&S as another example of a Central Florida railroad leasing needed steam power to lug heavy trains up the Ovalix. Four miles an hour, five miles an hour, who cares! Greg will have to keep his hands off of this one!
Judge,
This one will also be decaled for the C&O as the A&S RR is always willing to try new motive power. We have an unlimited supply of coal and BS.
Greg won't have the patience to pull the throttle two notches and leave it there.
Tom ;D
Quote from: ACL1504 on April 21, 2020, 05:50:37 PM
Quote from: Judge on April 21, 2020, 05:34:34 PM
This is one of my favorite locos. The H-5 was of USRA design and had drivers a little larger than the more famous H-6, the last of which is in the B&O Museum in Baltimore. This old hog could really pull those coal hoppers up and down the mountains. The painted, finished model ought to be an outstanding addition to the A&S as another example of a Central Florida railroad leasing needed steam power to lug heavy trains up the Ovalix. Four miles an hour, five miles an hour, who cares! Greg will have to keep his hands off of this one!
Judge,
This one will also be decaled for the C&O as the A&S RR is always willing to try new motive power. We have an unlimited supply of coal and BS.
Greg won't have the patience to pull the throttle two notches and leave it there.
Tom ;D
Wanna bet - I'll put a quarter on keeping it under 20.... ::) .....and tell Bill "not a chance" ;)
Quote from: GPdemayo on April 21, 2020, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on April 21, 2020, 05:50:37 PM
Quote from: Judge on April 21, 2020, 05:34:34 PM
This is one of my favorite locos. The H-5 was of USRA design and had drivers a little larger than the more famous H-6, the last of which is in the B&O Museum in Baltimore. This old hog could really pull those coal hoppers up and down the mountains. The painted, finished model ought to be an outstanding addition to the A&S as another example of a Central Florida railroad leasing needed steam power to lug heavy trains up the Ovalix. Four miles an hour, five miles an hour, who cares! Greg will have to keep his hands off of this one!
Judge,
This one will also be decaled for the C&O as the A&S RR is always willing to try new motive power. We have an unlimited supply of coal and BS.
Greg won't have the patience to pull the throttle two notches and leave it there.
Tom ;D
Wanna bet - I'll put a quarter on keeping it under 20.... ::) .....and tell Bill "not a chance" ;)
Greg,
In betting lingo, come big or stay at home. .25, really? ;D ;D
Tom ;D
Is this a new policy on the A&S? Loco distancing for Greg? :P
That is one beautiful locomotive. :D I can sure understand why the Judge likes it, wants it painted and in active service. I can't wait to see the finished product.
Quote from: ACL1504 on April 21, 2020, 06:48:51 PM
Quote from: GPdemayo on April 21, 2020, 06:20:05 PM
Quote from: ACL1504 on April 21, 2020, 05:50:37 PM
Quote from: Judge on April 21, 2020, 05:34:34 PM
This is one of my favorite locos. The H-5 was of USRA design and had drivers a little larger than the more famous H-6, the last of which is in the B&O Museum in Baltimore. This old hog could really pull those coal hoppers up and down the mountains. The painted, finished model ought to be an outstanding addition to the A&S as another example of a Central Florida railroad leasing needed steam power to lug heavy trains up the Ovalix. Four miles an hour, five miles an hour, who cares! Greg will have to keep his hands off of this one!
Judge,
This one will also be decaled for the C&O as the A&S RR is always willing to try new motive power. We have an unlimited supply of coal and BS.
Greg won't have the patience to pull the throttle two notches and leave it there.
Tom ;D
Wanna bet - I'll put a quarter on keeping it under 20.... ::) .....and tell Bill "not a chance" ;)
Greg,
In betting lingo, come big or stay at home. .25, really? ;D ;D
Tom ;D
It's called being thrifty..... ;)
Quote from: ReadingBob on April 21, 2020, 07:22:16 PM
Is this a new policy on the A&S? Loco distancing for Greg? :P
That is one beautiful locomotive. :D I can sure understand why the Judge likes it, wants it painted and in active service. I can't wait to see the finished product.
Et tu Butts..... :o
Quote from: Judge on April 21, 2020, 05:34:34 PM
This is one of my favorite locos. The H-5 was of USRA design and had drivers a little larger than the more famous H-6, the last of which is in the B&O Museum in Baltimore. This old hog could really pull those coal hoppers up and down the mountains. The painted, finished model ought to be an outstanding addition to the A&S as another example of a Central Florida railroad leasing needed steam power to lug heavy trains up the Ovalix. Four miles an hour, five miles an hour, who cares! Greg will have to keep his hands off of this one!
I agree with the Judge on this loco, I rebuilt a plastic version of this loco into a Rio Grande version a few years ago to see if I could. http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50426 Thanx Thom... P.S. I forgot I have an old (not very good) test run video Dick Elwell & I made of this model. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQuQHv1UeY0
Quote from: tct855 on April 22, 2020, 11:15:06 AM
Quote from: Judge on April 21, 2020, 05:34:34 PM
This is one of my favorite locos. The H-5 was of USRA design and had drivers a little larger than the more famous H-6, the last of which is in the B&O Museum in Baltimore. This old hog could really pull those coal hoppers up and down the mountains. The painted, finished model ought to be an outstanding addition to the A&S as another example of a Central Florida railroad leasing needed steam power to lug heavy trains up the Ovalix. Four miles an hour, five miles an hour, who cares! Greg will have to keep his hands off of this one!
Thom,
Your model is absolutely stunning. Well done sir.
Tom ;D
I agree with the Judge on this loco, I rebuilt a plastic version of this loco into a Rio Grande version a few years ago to see if I could. http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50426 (http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50426) Thanx Thom... P.S. I forgot I have an old (not very good) test run video Dick Elwell & I made of this model. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQuQHv1UeY0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQuQHv1UeY0)