Well we hear this topic a million times. So yesterday I was able to get to the shed area and skim some dirt off the ground and I baked it for a hour at 350 and then shift it threw a sifter and then my favorite pair of leggs pantyhose and noticed the dirt is so dark compare to everyone else's. Even Dave's and he lives in the same state. I notice yesterday John's layout was a perfect color around his Diorama setting. As with Karl's O and many other's. Is there something I need to add or do ? I got some bank run gravel to try today. The sand pile is still to frozen to get any, And I have pitcher mound dirt to try today as well. Like all say. If you don't ask you won't know. Thank you!!!
Pic's
Dennis,
The color of dirt varies greatly from its mineral content as well as its organic content. The real Delaware & Northern ran is the western edge of the Catskills. Portions of that area have dirt so red as to almost look fake. I could use that dirt for authenticity but I think most viewers would see it as "wrong". I looked around for some "dirt looking dirt" and settled on some silt that seemed to be kind of a light brown that I typically see on layouts. Once I found a supply, I filled a five gallon bucket so I would have enough to use on my layout without having to worry about color variations. That said, I have two different colors of sand (both bags from home improvement stores). I plan to use these for gravel (not dirt) roads because roads that have been graveled vary in color and texture from the surrounding dirt. Dirt that is high in organic matter, i.e., gardens, flower beds, (potting soil), are much darker than run of the mill dirt. Clay such as found in pitcher's mounds tends to be lighter.
To better address your "problem" with the dark dirt. I'd suggest that you figure out what color will meet your needs for your layout. Remember that indoor lighting is much less intense than sunlight and plan your color accordingly. If the dirt you have is too dark for the look you want to achieve you have several options if you want to move forward with your diorama. You can mix something lighter with your dirt to get closer to the color you want. Some sanded grout can be used to change the color of your dirt. if you are only working in a small area you can also use powdered chalk to lighten the color. Lastly, some modelers paint their dirt after applying it to the layout. You can always use what you have as a base coat and then cover it with a color more to your liking when you have that on hand. HTH
Thank You Jerry, That is very helpful sir.
Hey Dennis, here is a thread on the Sierra West Forum where Karl explains how to use the sanded grout.
http://www.craftsmankituniversity.com/vanforum/index.php?p=/discussion/244/dirt-details-dioramas
Thank you Steve. Reading it. Dennis
Don't be afraid to mix dirt and grout together to get the color you want!
dave
Dave, Thank you sir. Some say Haystack is a good color.
Polyblend color card: https://www.custombuildingproducts.com/media/61386257/Grout_Card_CC20_10-19_WEB.pdf
dave
I'm actually heading to Home Depot tomorrow so I'll be sure to pick up some Polyblend and can report back.
My Rocky Point Harbor diorama base has grown in size so I'll be needing more ground cover anyway!
Thank you Dave and Craig. I Homedepot in my state does not carrying Polyblend Summer Wheat Grout :(
Dave, if you want the Summer wheat Blend, they will order it for you. That is what I did. But then I thought it was to light.
.
Quote from: Dennis Bourey on March 13, 2021, 06:50:03 PM
Thank you Dave and Craig. I Homedepot in this not carrying Polyblend Summer Wheat Grout :(
Dennis
I checked amazon and you can get it. It's not cheap. How much are you guys used to paying for it?
Quote from: Dennis Bourey on March 13, 2021, 11:56:21 AM
Well we hear this topic a million times. So yesterday I was able to get to the shed area and skim some dirt off the ground and I baked it for a hour at 350 and then shift it threw a sifter and then my favorite pair of leggs pantyhose and noticed the dirt is so dark compare to everyone else's. Even Dave's and he lives in the same state. I notice yesterday John's layout was a perfect color around his Diorama setting. As with Karl's O and many other's. Is there something I need to add or do ? I got some bank run gravel to try today. The sand pile is still to frozen to get any, And I have pitcher mound dirt to try today as well. Like all say. If you don't ask you won't know. Thank you!!!
Dennis
I cheat on the color of my dirt. I get fine sand from a gravel pit by my cabin. I then screen it and use a mortar and pestle to make it finer. And then after I get it down on the layout I cover it with very fine chalk to get the color I want. The chalk also makes it appear much finer. You need it to be very fine to look right in HO scale.
Smoke and mirrors. :-[
I actually have some tile grout under the layout that is left over from our master bathroom and kitchen remodeling jobs. I have never tried it for dirt on my layout. I need to put that on the list.
$13 John lol
Well John, Now I know why I have a mortar and pestle. Must of been one your roundhouse or Engine work build. I found it yesterday.
You use your Mortar and pestle to grind your chalk also? Thanks :)
Hey Dennis:
I have all kinds of model dirt in my collection so that is pretty much what I use. Heck I don't even remember where I got it all. So at any rate that's pretty much what I use.
Karl
Thank you Karl. There's all kinds of dirt, Weird when my yard real dirt don't look right. lol
Quote from: Dennis Bourey on March 13, 2021, 10:22:44 PM
Well John, Now I know why I have a mortar and pestle. Must of been one your roundhouse or Engine work build. I found it yesterday.
You use your Mortar and pestle to grind your chalk also? Thanks :)
I don't find that the chalk needs to be finer - I just scrape it onto a pallet with a #11 and apply it with a brush.
Thank You John, Dennis
A piece of (fine) wallboard sanding screen works great for reducing chalk to dust :-)
dave
Dennis, You can order it on line from Home Depot and have it delivered to a neaby store and then you do not have to pay the shipping charges. Some things on amazon cn be very expensive vs other outlets.
Thank you steve. Heading there tomorrow
Very true Dave I didn't think of that.Dennis
With regard to the grout, I liked the idea and wanted to try it out, so went to the local Home Depot and picked up two different colors. Unfortunately I did not pay close enough attention to the "sanded" part, and accidentally picked up un-sanded grout. Not the same. Be sure you get the sanded variety.
--Opa George
Thank you George. What color'e did you pick out? Dennis
Hey Dennis.
On my trip to Home Depot over the weekend I picked up a 25lb bag of "Haystack".
Will report back on my findings over the coming days.
Thank you my Friend....
Quote from: Dennis Bourey on March 15, 2021, 08:46:23 AM
Thank you George. What color'e did you pick out? Dennis
I think it was the summer wheat, referenced above. I tried using it but was not happy with the results, so went back to my tried and true method of using all purpose sand. The bag of sand I got a few years ago for $3 at Home Depot seems to be just the exact right color--a light tan. However sand color varies greatly. I just got lucky.
Opa George
George, Thank you sir. I went to homedepot and I forgot the sand lol. I got a bag of Haystack and paint but I forgot the sand. So it's on my next run list.
Gents....
I had not thought of colored grout powder. In the west here we have some very alkali soil that has a light sandy color. Common dirt out my back yard still goes pretty dark when glued down.
I go out in the desert and look for gopher hotels and snag five gallon buckets of the stuff they have pushed to the top. We have a layer of hard pan clay called colechee (?) Southwest Idaho was prehistorically part of the Bonneville lake complex and has a thick hard sedimentary layer about a foot down everywhere in the valley. It is even lighter in color and by the time they mine it up it is like talcum powder. I bake it in the oven so as to not import something loathsome.
My wife assigned me my own cookie sheet for this. A 300 degree oven is not enough sterilent to suit her. But there are times where I don't debate the enabler.
I find that the light color offers good contrast for everything else on the pike.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-280320023105-436631849.jpeg)
see ya
Bob
Thank you Bob. I like the color.
Hi Guy's experiment day. I did a foam with earth paint from lowes. and did a 9 samples . Here's the result's. Left to Right. Top Soil just a sifter screened. next is Top sifter screen soil with Durham's Putty. Next is Top Soil done with a nylon sock after a sifter screened, next is Gravel done with a sock after a sifter screen, next is gravel with a sifter screen only, next is Durham's and Haystack, next is Haystack and sifted screen only next is Gravel and Haystack sifter screen and the nylon sock, Next is Gravel and Haystack with sifter only. Phew Dennis
That middle one looks best, in my opinion.
This one Craig?
Yeah, that's my pick!
Believe it or not that's just gravel with it sifted but not sifted through a nylon stocking. My Haystack didn't even work out.
That's very close to the color I get using just all purpose sand. I sift it through a standard kitchen wire strainer and use the fine results for earth base and even dirt roads, and the course stuff that won't go through the strainer for the rough gravelly areas and fill between rock castings.
--Opa George
George, That is weird how gravel looks better then topsoil. lol
Quote from: Dennis Bourey on March 15, 2021, 07:54:16 PM
George, That is weird how gravel looks better then topsoil. lol
True. But some things do not scale down well and under our indoor lighting end up looking less realistic. Rocks are another example. I've tried using real rocks to represent boulders, but they never look as good to my eye as finished plaster castings of rocks.
--Opa George
Great information by all for an often overlooked subject.....thanks. 8)
Thank you George and Greg, More homework.
Shouldn't your dirt color depend upon what area you are modeling? I'm modeling somewhat local so I can get by with a backyard dirt pile. If I was modeling Arkansas, I'd need to add some reddish tint. Georgia would be redder yet. For other parts of the country, I have no clue, but it seem to me to be important to have an idea to get a feel for the area.
Definitely, granite soils look different from sandstone/limestone soils, look different from clay soils.
So it's a combination of where you're modeling and how things look under your layout lights.
dave
Here is a picture of the chalk that I use for my base color over the sand that I described above.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/18-160321111139.jpeg)
It is called old dirt brown and I buy it from Bragdon Enterprises.
http://www.bragdonent.com
I go lighter and darker using the appropriate colors of chalk applied over this base.
Quote from: Oldguy on March 16, 2021, 09:52:46 AM
Shouldn't your dirt color depend upon what area you are modeling? I'm modeling somewhat local so I can get by with a backyard dirt pile. If I was modeling Arkansas, I'd need to add some reddish tint. Georgia would be redder yet. For other parts of the country, I have no clue, but it seem to me to be important to have an idea to get a feel for the area.
Quite right, of course. In noting what looked right, what I should have said was "looks right for the area I model." Good catch, Bob!
Quote from: Oldguy on March 16, 2021, 09:52:46 AM
Shouldn't your dirt color depend upon what area you are modeling? I'm modeling somewhat local so I can get by with a backyard dirt pile. If I was modeling Arkansas, I'd need to add some reddish tint. Georgia would be redder yet. For other parts of the country, I have no clue, but it seem to me to be important to have an idea to get a feel for the area.
You are right Bob. I'm trying for New England as I live here. Dennis
Thank You George, Bob, Dave and John. Feels good to start something. 8)
Correction: The color of the Bragdon chalk is called Dust Bowl Brown - number 66 I'm not sure if the name changed or I changed it for him :-[ :-[ :-[
Thank you John, I found it.