I will be placing a build thread in the contest area as well. It will not be judged for the contest but will be judged for the AP program the NMRA has. I will be scratch building a 1900 flour mill that used coal steam power to operate. It will incorporate ideas from several actual buildings of that time and will highlight the use of 3D printing and laser cutting techniques. This will be the second try at building this structure from scratch. Have you ever built something and when done just said, 'that looks terrible'. That is how the first attempted I did came out. I hope what I learned the first time will help me do better this second time.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/thumb_785-211124090250-53122980.jpeg) (https://modelersforum.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=53123)
Here are photos of actual buildings of that time I will use as reference and what the first attempt of this facility came out looking like.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/thumb_785-211124090252-531241574.jpeg) (https://modelersforum.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=53125)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/thumb_785-211124090252-53123285.gif) (https://modelersforum.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=53124)
Jim, a really nice looking structure, will pull up a chair and watch...Tommy
I'll be looking in Jim..... :)
Will be interesting to see how you accomplish this.
Jeff
Jim,
I'm ready for this one as well. I have a cold Diet Pepsi and laid back for the build.
Tom
Looks to be an interesting project, Jim.
Are you going to change up any of the layout/ structures in your second attempt? What size is the overall diorama?
Cheers, Mark.
Count me in as well. Instead of a Diet Pepsi I'll be sipping a little whiskey as I follow along with your build. Retirement is wonderful. ;D
Quote from: Mark Dalrymple on November 21, 2024, 06:49:32 PMLooks to be an interesting project, Jim.
Are you going to change up any of the layout/ structures in your second attempt? What size is the overall diorama?
Cheers, Mark.
Great questions Mark;
All the structures that make up the facility will be changed in detail, method of building and look. Since I made the original in 2023 I've learned a lot more both about how an early 1900 flour mill operated and my own method of scratch building has change. Resin printing and use of a laser for shape cutting have become more incorporated in my building.
The original took up about 10 x 22 and was made to stand against the backdrop. This one will be smaller and detailed on all sides. The biggest size reduction will come from the rail receiving warehouse being cut in half in size. Most of the diorama will consist of the facility as my build will be geared towards being judged for the NMRA Structures AP program.
Thanks for asking.
Jim
Building a freelance scratch building I first research the history of the structure type, review photos of similar buildings and get a 'feel' for why the buildings were built as they were. For this project I spent 20-30 hours. The history of flour mills is remarkable. If you would like to see a real mill of the 1800's in operation check out this YouTube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tp7nvAvuwk
Until the 1920's most mills were three or four stories high using a pa.tented automated method of converting wheat grain into flour (patient #3 by Oliver Evans and signed by George Washington himself).
My interpretation of a mill will be an early coal fired (converted from a water wheel) operation using milling stones and the Evans vertical bucket belt system. This information is important in it will set the size and shapes of the three buildings that make up the facility. The primary building is the center 'tower' building where the actual processing occurs. A schematic of this operation looks like this:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124204736-531531917.jpeg)
The other two buildings are the boiler room and the receiving warehouse.
The boiler building will be based on a great photo I found of an early steam power building operated by Toledo Edison. It will be significantly smaller of course, consisting of four boilers.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-300524151244-526562022.png)
The receiving warehouse design is still under development. So enough background information time to start the project.
The first building of this complex will be the central tower building. It will be 5 floors high because the ground floor will be a shipping warehouse two stories high. I will be cutting the walls using a Sculpfun 9s diode laser of 5 watts maximum power. As modeling lasers go this is small but more than adequate for my needs. I bought it from Amazon a little over a year ago and it has helped my modeling tremendously. I paid about two hundred dollars and it is still about that price. You can cut and paste the URL below if you'd like more information.
https://www.amazon.com/SCULPFUN-Engraver-Efficient-Engraving-Machine/dp/B09MQMXXGD/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2J1QPSDVAZRNN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.GFtpnZ-X_LGmPbzmR2woEI7HIfZEi81Ps1X-_zFwa1U8lRDGbjIonWpvkkFrt1iQjb2rEuTXW2GNTFI32P7b54e_7J-kzodi2xsOoZNXYl4G7rT8iddx61eWPVhvL5JyXPANjnjKJLvONS1VT-Oy0iH2x9hXygp_NQpE3rr93dM_BzhmFcfo76wr88htDP-R6ec-8PHUM4yonQILpfY-.A_eqkEcSHgnKKpjMte-xC6JZTtKusoVT9K_-28Bak5c&dib_tag=se&keywords=sculpfun%2Bs9&qid=1732588286&sprefix=Sculptfun%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1
The laser and the 3D printers I will be using all require data files which I make using a free on-line CAD program called Tinkercad. Made and supported by Autocad it was designed for students to learn basic CAD design. I found it straightforward to learn with a host of YouTube videos available to help. I've been using the program for over two years now. The laser itself runs off an old Mac laptop computer I have that dates back to 2008 using a laser cutting program called Laserburn. Laserburn in turn creates the cut file from a data file exported to it from Tinkercad. These files are called .svg and are two dimensional drawings.
Have I lost you yet? Hang in there we are about done with the jargon. I mention all this as it is how I create and make large parts of my scratch built and kit bash kits. In the tower building there will be no commercial bought windows, doors or accessories, everything will need to be designed, manufactured, fitted and assembled. The vast majority of time in creating this model is spent designing and manufacturing the parts. I won't go any further into Tinkercad but will show the final drawings developed that become cut files for the laser.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124212527-531572077.png)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124212528-531582233.png)
The above two screen shots show the design of the tower building. The covered overhang is where boxcars will be loaded with the bags and barrels of flour. Barrels were phased out by the 1920's.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124212526-531541849.png)
By hiding the majority of the building I can make a slice of just the front wall. This is the file that will go to the Laserburn program to operate the laser. You can see what the cut file looks like below once Laserburn creates it.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124212527-531551462.png)
In my store wanderings I picked up over 70 birchwood 3mm thick plywood boards for $.07 each. I will be using some of these to make the walls of the tower building.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200015-531351053.jpeg)
Here is one of the walls having been cut out by the laser. I left it in the board to show both.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200140-531391211.jpeg)
And here are all walls required having been cut.
With the walls cut I spray painted the inner sides black. I intend to have interiors that can be seen through the windows but I will use shadow boxes instead of creating entire floors.
The building is to be brick and I have special textured paper I have been saving. I got it from a gentleman from Italy years ago but I can not remember his company's name. If anybody recognizes the paper and knows the person please let me know as I would love to get more. As I understand it the heavy duty textured paper was originally a type of wall paper in Europe that did not sell very well. One side has the wall paper print still on it. The other side this person ran through a high end copier and printed a great brick design. Actually he printed several various types of bricks.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200141-531412305.jpeg)
While there appears to be a repeating pattern in the design I have found that once glued on the wall with all the windows, doors, fixtures and such the pattern disappears.
While the brick pattern looks to repeat when seen by itself once in place with the doors, windows, fixtures and such the pattern disappears.
I used 12 inch wide 3M #465 two sided tape to affix to the back of each sheet of brick paper. Since the laser will need to produce some scrap around the edges I did not need to carry the tape from edge to edge. While 465 tape is not cheap it sure works wonders and beats gluing were it can be used.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200140-53137978.jpeg)
After applying the tape to the back of the brick sheet I used a steel block and, putting the brick face down on a clean surface, I gently wiped the block across the tape to make sure it was evenly applied.
I was able to use the same cut files for the front and back as used for the wood cutting, I simply adjusted the laser settings down, increasing how fast the head moved and reduced the passes to only two. I left the laser power at 100% to make sure a clean cut was made. When placing the sheet onto the cutting tray I checked and rechecked to make sure the laser head would cut straight across the bricks and not on a diagonal which would ruin the illusion of straight bricks.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200141-53140623.jpeg)
For the two side walls I needed to add 5mm per side since they will be covered by the front and back wall at the corner when joined. The extra length will cover the end on sides of the front and back. I plan to have quoins on each corner but the brick coverage will keep things straight. I scored the tape on these sheets so that the wax paper was left in place on the edges after the brick sheet was glued to the wood. You can see what I mean below:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200246-531462254.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200246-53145787.jpeg)
So after designing, creating files, cutting, painting and gluing we have the brick walls we need. More next post.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200015-5313436.jpeg)
Wow , great research and nice use of the laser , now you have me doubting again between buying a laser cutter or a 3D printer, I think both in the long run.
Jim,
The brick walls look fantastic. Great job with the laser and research.
Tom
Wow! Just wow. That's all I can come up with for this one. :o
I'll see the fantastic & wow and raise it with an amazing..... 8)
Quote from: Janbouli on November 26, 2024, 03:19:29 AMWow , great research and nice use of the laser , now you have me doubting again between buying a laser cutter or a 3D printer, I think both in the long run.
Thanks for check in Jan. I bought the 3D printer first but if I was to do it again I think I'd start with the laser. It is more straightforward to learn and simple to operate. That said I love having both, it opens up a whole new world of possibilities and I find I use both for non modeling projects as well.
Jim
Quote from: ACL1504 on November 26, 2024, 07:55:41 AMJim,
The brick walls look fantastic. Great job with the laser and research.
Tom
Thanks Tom;
I actually have an entire online file of information I gathered concerning Flour Mills, the internet never ceases to amaze me. Subjects that would have taken weeks to get a basic understanding of when I was a kid now take a couple of hours, mostly reading or watch a video, amazing.
Jim
Quote from: ReadingBob on November 26, 2024, 09:24:04 AMWow! Just wow. That's all I can come up with for this one. :o
Bob I am just trying not to embarrass myself with the quality of modelers (like you) on the Forum. Hopefully as time goes on more will join the winter challenge. My own build is not in the challenge since I am in charge of the contest, just tagging long.
Jim
With the walls cut and brick placed I turned my attention to making the arch windows, doors and framing for the other openings. I spent a lot of time playing with various window openings. Here is a screenshot showing all the ideas I worked on before settling on my choice.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224165824-53171279.png)
I decided on a fairly simple design which will allow me to have windows open and closed. Here is what was selected:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224172608-531801406.png)
The window design I selected has mullins on both sides and a slot in the bottom allowing me to slide the glass into place between the panes and then glue it in place by using canopy glue to seal the slot.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224165856-53176553.png)
I designed the 'slot' on both sides of window the entire length of the so the glass can ride up in the groove and keep the sides of the glass from showing when glued in place.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224172801-53186489.jpeg)
You can see the bottom opening of the slot in the window in above photo.
The windows selected are vertical side by side with the left side having a lip so that when they are closed the gap between the windows is sealed, like the real versions would be. I sent the design to the smaller of the two 3D printers I use. It is an Elegoo Mars Pro 2. I've had it for a couple of years and it does a very good job. As you can see the data file is placed on a USB drive and inserted in the front of the machine.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200014-53132443.jpeg)
The only limiting factor I have with the machine is the rather small print plate. Since I bought the machine the plates have become 2-3 sizes bigger. Here is the print plate showing a batch of the windows printed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224172900-53188400.jpeg)
I am using rattle cans for painting this model. The colors available has really improved over last couple of years and the chalk look really produces a nice flat look. For the windows I am using Coastal Blue by Rustoleum. The wall opening will be Chalk Slate Gray by Krylon.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224172900-53189271.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-251124200415-531511287.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224183247-53190418.jpeg)
In order to add to the look I am using real glass. 18mm x 18mm slide covers to be exact. I did some research about having the laser cut the windows. Apparently others have succeeded at accomplishing this but I was not able to find a combination of speed, power and number of passes that worked so I will be doing it the old fashion way, cutting the glass one at a time. To accomplish this I made a jig on the work mat with a silhouette of the window design. Using a General Tool scribe I try to smoothly score the glass for the straight section and then snap the needed part from the rest of the slide. The curved top requires soft scoring in one direction until the glass separates. I'd love to say I find this easy but no dice. I am about 50% successful in cutting a window or in other words I need to cut two to get one that works. This model will require 100 windows so I am trying to make 10 a day and then go on to something else otherwise I get frustrated. I have 22 done so far.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224172551-531772115.jpeg)
Here is a prototype widow frame with glass installed I used to make sure the final design to be printed worked. I like the look of real glass.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-211024175815-530551628.jpeg)
I designed and printed the warehouse door frames along with the doors, painted all and then installed everything onto the appropriate walls. At this point all walls are essentially complete on the outside except for detailing. I will next brace the inside walls and create the shadow boxes that will show off some of what the interior would have looked like. I need to give that part some thought before proceeding so here is where we are at this point.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-011224172759-531841392.jpeg)
Very impressive! I've never tried real glass...
dave
I've done a few cover glass windows. I think it would be near impossible to cut the arch consistently.
Jeff
Jim,
Just, "WOW!". If I wasn't already amazed by your use of the laser to cut the brick paper I'd be looking for more adjectives to describe the insanity of cutting curved cover glass windows. I struggle to cut glass for my storefront windows using a straight edge, and often end up by hiding the less than straight cuts I get after multiple efforts. I cannot imagine trying to cut glass for even a couple curved windows, much less a hundred.
Looking really nice, Jim.
Do you have a plan to try to lesson the repeated patten of the bricks? I know Troels Kirk did some amazing stuff with paints to his walls. Also George Sellios with those 'Trains of Texas' walls.
Cheers, Mark.
Jim,
Fantastic build my friend. This is a great add for a laser cutter. However, I won't live long enough to learn how to use it. I'm sure the learning cure is another story.
Tom
Quote from: deemery on December 01, 2024, 07:41:44 PMVery impressive! I've never tried real glass...
dave
Thanks Dave
I've had several comments on cutting glass, especially curved so I am adding a little more information on the post.
Jim
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on December 01, 2024, 07:54:04 PMI've done a few cover glass windows. I think it would be near impossible to cut the arch consistently.
Jeff
Hi Jeff;It is not the easiest thing in the world for sure but it can be done. It is one of those things that the slower you go the faster you will get done. I', posting a little more information on how I am doing this.Jim
Quote from: jerryrbeach on December 02, 2024, 09:27:54 AMJim,
Just, "WOW!". If I wasn't already amazed by your use of the laser to cut the brick paper I'd be looking for more adjectives to describe the insanity of cutting curved cover glass windows. I struggle to cut glass for my storefront windows using a straight edge, and often end up by hiding the less than straight cuts I get after multiple efforts. I cannot imagine trying to cut glass for even a couple curved windows, much less a hundred.
Thanks Jerry;Like I told Jeff, not the easiest thing I have ever tried for sure but doable. I am going to post a little more on it so might give you some ideas.Jim
Quote from: Mark Dalrymple on December 02, 2024, 02:14:31 PMLooking really nice, Jim.
Do you have a plan to try to lesson the repeated patten of the bricks? I know Troels Kirk did some amazing stuff with paints to his walls. Also George Sellios with those 'Trains of Texas' walls.
Cheers, Mark.
Hi Mark;Yes I will be using dry brushing, and pigments once I have have placed all the detail stuff on the walls and before the glass goes in place. Matt clear varnish will tone everything I put on the walls down. If I do it right (no promises) the repeat should be gone. We will see.Jim
Quote from: ACL1504 on December 02, 2024, 05:46:53 PMJim,
Fantastic build my friend. This is a great add for a laser cutter. However, I won't live long enough to learn how to use it. I'm sure the learning cure is another story.
Tom
Frankly Tom if I modeled as good as you do I don't think I would worry about lasers or 3D printers either. Thanks for tagging along.
Jim
I've received some comments on the use of real glass and the difficulty of using it so I would like to explain how I do it a little more in-depth. First, like most things, the more you do it the better your results. I like the look of glass so I am willing to put up with the failure rate and frustration of cutting a shape only to have it break on the last cut. Second I have found only one tool that works consistently in cutting slide glass, the General Tool Scribe #86. I'm not sure if it was Bob Parrish or Bob Hamm who told me about this tool first but nothing else I have tried has worked, period.
There is a much better glass available for windows, offered by Clover House, it is an amazing .05mm thick were the slide glass is .13-.17mm thick. I can cut this material with a very high rate of success and I have seen Bob Hamm cut complete circles out of it. Unfortunately they are temporarily closed due to illness. Hopefully they will reopen soon. So for now I am stuck with slide glass but the good part is it is much less in cost since I only get it right 35-50% of the time.
To cut these windows I two step the process. First I make a single score across the slide in the width I want. I don't worry about the height at this point, just a nice straight cut. I use a little tape jig I make on the work mat for this process and a clear plastic ruler to see that the slide is in correct position to score the glass line. After scoring I place the glass on a 2 x 4 metal block I normally use for weight with the score line on the edge of the block. I gently press down and if I scored it right it simply snaps off. After a little practice this usually goes fine. Then I place the die I had the laser cutter cut out of 2 mil styrene in the dimensions of the window (actually .1 mm smaller in all dimensions to account for the scribe adding width. When stacked correctly I gently score the curve of the die in one direction, towards me, until the corner snaps off. If done right I have a curved window. Sometimes the curve might not be perfect but if only a little jagged the window frame will cover it and I still use it. Since the window frame is fairly soft resin I slide the glass in place with about 1-1.5 mm sticking out the bottom. Then I gently tap the bottom against the work mat till the glass is completely seated, being glass it works its way into the resin somewhat. If any glass is still showing on the bottom I use the scribe and cut it off. Finally a dab of canopy glue across the bottom of the window which will dry and hold everything in place. So here is a better picture of the make do jig (the white die is in the correct place when used) and the final result after cutting. Most of my failures are on the curved part so I cut up 10-20 'straight blanks') first then work on the curve.
Hope that is a better explanation.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-021224183727-53242685.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-021224183727-532431164.jpeg)
Tedious work Jim, but the results are amazing..... 8)
One thing I forgot until yesterday. In order to get the cuts as constantly smooth as possible it is important to cut on a hard service, not the mat as I showed. It has been a while since I used glass in a building and had forgotten this most important fact. I have a sheet of tempered glass I use for cutting brittle items, once I switched over to it my success rate jumped to 75%. Not sure why I forgot except old age. The surface you use to cut is all important.
Jim,
Cutting the glass on a hard surface does make sense. Great job anyway.
Tom
Glass cutting 101 etc.! Thanks for how you do this.
And the build is coming along nicely.
Jerry
I am planning to do as much work on the walls as possible prior to putting them together. For the front I had the laser cut from 2mm styrene the letters for the company name. Painted the same color as the windows here is the result:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-231224191702-533481192.jpeg)
In addition to finishing the outer walls I am attaching shadow boxes to the inner providing a glimpse of the interior through the windows. I've seen several modelers on the Forum use this technique, the latest being Jeff on his own winter challenge. As I am lighting the structure I am putting the lighting into the various shadow boxes as needed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-231224200513-533552336.jpeg)
The above photo shows the shadow box for the right side wall. It is designed to show three floors with stock photos of interiors of actual mills. The top floor is where the grain first arrives and begins the process of drying and milling, it then moves down a floor for processing and down another floor for additional processing. Finally on the ground floor it will be packaged into bags or barrels as needed. I am using the same photos and all four sides for simplicity and with the windows in place the interior will be hard to see.
I designed the box shapes using tinkercad and was orgionally going to 3D print them however I decided that was overkill and simply cut 3mm plywood using the laser and glued the parts together as needed. I did design and 3D print slide/ bracing so the shadow boxes can be slid into place, be held firmly to the inner wall and will be removable if needed. Here you can see the design of the gray colored braces:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-231224202245-53356123.jpeg)
In past builds I have had issues with light leakage around the windows and doors. To help solve that problem I designed a simple cardstock backing with the window area cut out. I used the Cameo 3 vinyl/ paper cutter I have to run off 50 of these, glued them to the backs of the window area and then painted them flat black. You can see the window backing cardstock before they were painted in the photo. Hopefully that will take care of the light issue.
To light the boxes I am using single strand prewired warm white LED lights. I buy these direct from China with each costing around $.06 each. They come with about 4 inches of wire and the single strand copper means the wire will stay put where placed. In addition they are pre-tinned so I try to leave the wires as is instead of cutting them down. It looks a little messy but I find the solder connection is very good. I try not to have wires making long runs so I usually run them to preplaced copper tape strips, one for (+) and the other for (-). I connect the lights to the strip in parallel. I also try to avoid using resistors or current limiters when I am connecting several lights to the power source. Instead I use an inexpensive adjustable voltage 'buck convertor' which allows for the parallel set up. These convertors are less then $.80 each, can handle 10-12 lights easily and the voltage is adjustable. The one in the picture can handle up to 18 volts input and you can adjust output down to less then 1 volt. For these inexpensive versions there is no display so I needed to use a voltmeter to confirm outgoing voltage which I set at 3.2 volts. A tiny phillips head screw is turned to adjust the output voltage, once set it is done.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-231224191911-533502090.jpeg)
Finally, I use Gallery Lead to seal the holes I made to run the led lights into the shadow box. This way light leakage is minimized. You can see the bottle in above photo.
And a test shows the shadow box lights up as I hoped, input is 12 volts, output 3.2 volts.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-231224205655-5335883.jpeg)
Jim,
Very nice and no light leaks.
Tom
Nice work! I'm also a fan of tinkercad and elegoo.
Philip
Looking good Jim..... 8)
Quote from: Philip on January 07, 2025, 11:22:17 PMNice work! I'm also a fan of tinkercad and elegoo.
Philip
Thanks Philip. So far I have found Tinkercad gets me what I need. Perhaps Fusion 360 would make life easier but I haven't worked up the energy to learn it.Jim
For the roof I went with a Mansard style. I made a simple design using Tinkercad and had the 3D printer produce it. Due to size limitations I had it made in two parts attached together with a thick version of CA glue. I use the brand sold by Hobby Lobby, Todd Wiley told me it works great and it does. I designed recessed circles in the underneigh of the inside roof. CA glue was used to place round magnets in the recesses. The same was added to the building so that the roof is held in place by the magnets and can be removed as needed. I used shake shingles made by Bar Mills for the eve and attached them using 3M 567 two sided tape. Cut strips of construction paper,
scale 3 feet wide, painted charcoal black, were attached to the roof to simulate rolled roofing material. The center part of the roof has an elevator shaft building with a door allowing access to the roof. The building walls are basswood clapboard glued to a resin printed inner support structure. Also designed and 3D printed are the door, windows and a miniature version of the mansard roof. I forgot to take better pictures as I went but hopefully these will show the construction fairly well.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-200125210152-535231195.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-200125210128-535201473.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-200125210933-53524990.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-220125193441-535332438.jpeg)
To make the tar papered roof more realistic I used a blend of water, modge podge and charcoal black paint (Delta) to 'seal' the tar roof sheets together and then sprayed the entire roof with Krylon clear matt varnish before gluing the elevator building to the middle. The varnish produces a dry water stain look around the sealing paint that I like.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-200125210144-53522260.jpeg)
Like all the other windows in the building glass was used for the windows. I intend to make a decorative railing for the roof guard wall but that is down the road.
With the roof in place you get an idea of what I am trying to make. I forgot to take a photo of just the Tower building so you also get a sneak peak of the power building. That structure will produce both the steam and electricity for the entire facility. I have glued it in place already. It too has magnets holding the roof in place but it is also hinged so it opens from the opposite side of the tower building. There will be a complete interior in the power building so the opening roof lets you see inside even though the ceiling will have hanging lights.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-220125211617-535351092.jpeg)
You can still see the repeating pattern in the brick from this side but another building will be placed against the lower wall breaking much of that up.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-220125211618-535361140.jpeg)
This photo of the left side clearly shows the power building. With the number of windows and the buildings together you can see there is much less repetitiveness to the tower brick pattern..
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-220125211615-535341645.jpeg)
Finally the front of the facilty as it currently exists. The shadow boxes are in place, the interior braced as needed but the electric still needs to be completed as well as considerable. outside detailing.
Hope you enjoyed the update. Till next time, thanks.
This is a good time to circle back to the construction of the steam power building. I actually built this part of the facility first but as this thread was orgionally in the winter challange as a place holder (until actual contest entries started) I decided to show construction of the manufacturing building as I was working on that at the time.
Steam power buildings were much like ship steam boiler rooms of that era. Rock coal was shoveled by hand into fireboxes, valves were manually adjusted to keep the psi in the correct zone. The work was hot, hard and non-stop (not to mention dangerous). A steam power plant in Toledo was used as reference. I will have a complete interior as well as the building:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-300524151244-526562022.png)
The pace of innovation was incredible for the time. The above photo was taken around 1910. By 1920 an autofeed system was in place to keep a slurry ground coal mix feeding the boilers automatically. More in a minute.
Power Buildings of that time had lots of tilt windows that opened to help with the heat. So my design incorporates that look. I designed the shape using Tinkercad and had the 3D printer create the four main walls as one piece. The wall thickness is 3mm or about a scale foot.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221804-541472415.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221803-541461781.jpeg)
I use a UV light machine made eby Anycubic which has a rotating base to completely cure the parts after they have been printed, trimmed of all supports and finally cleaned with an alcohol bath.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221802-541451055.jpeg)
For this structure I used the tough version of resin I have on hand. I was concerned about the strength of some of the front wall pillars but after seeing the final product I am sure regular resin would have worked fine too.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221802-54144151.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225222105-54150424.jpeg)
So we have walls including a staircase at this point. More in a minute.
With the walls made I used a textured brick sheeting bought from Italy to cover both the outer and inner walls. A different pattern was used inside then outside much as these old building did. The expensive brick was for outside areas seen by public, cheaper brick used where not important for looks. To correctly cut the sheeting I used the Cameo 3 cutter I have. I've cut this paper in the past with my little laser cutter but the Cameo is much faster with a new blade installed. To glue the paper to the walls I use 3M 567 two-sided tape. I have a roll of the 12 inch wide version which covers the back very easy.
To cover the corners of the building I used a design I found in my research that was common for that period. While it was also for design its primary purpose was to help hold the walls in place. They too were 3D printed and painted slate gray.
Here is how it looked and stages of process:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221706-541422430.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221705-541411753.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221706-54143569.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225222105-54148784.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221559-541352247.jpeg)
Howdy Jim,
Nice work with the resin printer. I've never seen a resin print that tall. It looks like you printed it flat on the plate, is that so? Amazing work. Congratulations.
Have fun,
mike
Time for windows, an boy there are a lot for this building. I designed tilt windows in such a way I could use microscope slide cover glass. I wanted the windows as clear as possible so that the interior can be seen. I again used Tinkercad for designing, printed the parts, spray painted the frames charcoal black using Rust-o-lum and cut the windows to shape. The glass was glued to the frames using dots of canopy glue in each corner, out of site when looking at the structure. The tilt sections are static, glued either open or closed.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221324-54124753.jpeg)
The final major part for the building is the roof. For some reason I did not take many photos of the work done but I will try to show how it was made. First the roof substructure was 3D printed designed after building fronts of that time.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221330-541251728.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225222105-541491955.jpeg)
The above photo shows the roof. the main part (seen in first photo) was designed in one piece. All the other painted blue parts were individually designed, printed, painted and placed in slots I had designed into the main roof section. This way I could have several colors and a realistic look. The roof top is surfaced with construction strip paper painted charcoal and overlapped like tar roofs of that time. Light weathering was done.
The underneath part of the roof has magnets that line up with magnets in the wall corners to keep the lid shut. However the roof is hinged in the back (the brick sheet paper acts as the hinge). A paper sheet that looks like board on board was glued to the underside of roof. Metal supports were designed, printed and placed over the paper after being painted.
The lights were designed to look closely like those found in the Toledo Steam Building. The fixtures were printed using clear resin. The wiring was left draped like the original lights as well.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225231732-54151719.jpeg)
Turning to the interior I designed a simplified version of the Toledo Steam plant seen in the first photo I showed. The boiler stand was one piece 3D printed with brick covering added like the walls. The firebox doors, dividers, and all plumbing were made as separate parts. The plumbing has the most important values and such with more detailing needing to be done prior to being called finished. There are over one hundred parts in this scene.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221703-541391682.jpeg)
Note the roll of two sided 12 inch tape in photo.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221601-541372249.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221600-54136443.jpeg)
The white gauges even have decals with the temp of the water for each boiler.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221558-541341048.jpeg)
The interior slides into the building and latches in place.
Finally, I made a double bin on the backside to hold coal. This would only have been used for emergencies. Normally one or two wagons full of coal would have been waiting for use outside the back of the building. The boilers went through a lot of coal and wagons would arrive regularly to keep the fires hot.More work needs to b e done detailing the walls, interior and such but here are some final photos as the building is at present.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221439-54132715.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-040225221440-54133786.jpeg)
Till next time, thanks for stopping by.
Quote from: friscomike on February 04, 2025, 10:46:12 PMHowdy Jim,
Nice work with the resin printer. I've never seen a resin print that tall. It looks like you printed it flat on the plate, is that so? Amazing work. Congratulations.
Have fun,
mike
Thank you Mike. The Anycubic Mono 5S Pro does indeed have both a large plate and a high vertical lift. The model was actually printed with 5mm supports across the bottom. Normally I go with 7mm but it was a tight fit. Being basically straight walls I only needed to sand the bottom down a little.
Howdy Jim,
Thanks for the response!
What an impressive structure! The faithfulness to the prototype is amazing. I keep reviewing the build to see all the components you created.
What's next?
Have fun,
mike
WOW!
What a great looking model.
Great job on the design and construction, not to mention to interior detail.
You've got some nice toys to help with the design and construction.
what Rick said..... 8)
Jim, Thanks for the detailed step by step. Lately I've been peering over into the WorldWideWabbit hole of 3D printing, this and other threads here have me gathering courage...
BTW, your flat roof looks really realistic. I battled a flat roof of my own for years on one of my buildings.
Incidentally, one flat roof detail I rarely, if ever, see modeled anywhere is a graveled flat roof. A layer of gravel is installed on a freshly roofed building, the gravel blocks UV light, weighs down the roof against wind damage, and is a light color so it can help with heat in summer months. I couldn't put gravel on my roof as the building didn't have parapets, the gravel would have blown and washed off. Consequently my roof oxidized badly.
Graveled flat roofs just aren't very interesting, so I understand why they aren't modeled.
The easy way to model a gravel roof is with the correct grit of sandpaper... Weather appropriately, and you're done...
dave
Someone has some really cool toys!
Nice work!
Philip
Quote from: deemery on February 05, 2025, 09:36:41 AMThe easy way to model a gravel roof is with the correct grit of sandpaper... Weather appropriately, and you're done...
dave
Agreed! Wouldn't need any seams, easily done. Maybe add a little interest with a narrow wooden walkway over the the skylights to fix them when they leak, or over to the roof-mounted mechanical unit for when it breaks. Probably I'm putting too much personal history into this...
Impressive and inspirational!
Quote from: friscomike on February 05, 2025, 06:58:28 AMHowdy Jim,
Thanks for the response!
What an impressive structure! The faithfulness to the prototype is amazing. I keep reviewing the build to see all the components you created.
What's next?
Have fun,
mike
Thank you Mike, made my day.
Jim
Quote from: Rick on February 05, 2025, 07:11:30 AMWOW!
What a great looking model.
Great job on the design and construction, not to mention to interior detail.
You've got some nice toys to help with the design and construction.
Thanks Rick;
Yep, I spent the kids inheritance for those toys! Actually, all together they did not cost what a good locomotive costs these days.
jim
Quote from: Philip on February 05, 2025, 09:50:59 AMSomeone has some really cool toys!
Nice work!
Philip
Thanks Philip!
Jim
Quote from: IWannaRetire on February 05, 2025, 10:03:15 AMQuote from: deemery on February 05, 2025, 09:36:41 AMThe easy way to model a gravel roof is with the correct grit of sandpaper... Weather appropriately, and you're done...
dave
Agreed! Wouldn't need any seams, easily done. Maybe add a little interest with a narrow wooden walkway over the the skylights to fix them when they leak, or over to the roof-mounted mechanical unit for when it breaks. Probably I'm putting too much personal history into this...
Thanks and great ideas.
Jim
Quote from: Dave Buchholz on February 05, 2025, 10:10:39 AMImpressive and inspirational!
Thank you very much Dave. Along the coast of Lake Ontario uh? I grew up west of Rochester about 10 miles from the lake.
Jim
Quote from: IWannaRetire on February 05, 2025, 09:27:32 AMJim, Thanks for the detailed step by step. Lately I've been peering over into the WorldWideWabbit hole of 3D printing, this and other threads here have me gathering courage...
BTW, your flat roof looks really realistic. I battled a flat roof of my own for years on one of my buildings.
Incidentally, one flat roof detail I rarely, if ever, see modeled anywhere is a graveled flat roof. A layer of gravel is installed on a freshly roofed building, the gravel blocks UV light, weighs down the roof against wind damage, and is a light color so it can help with heat in summer months. I couldn't put gravel on my roof as the building didn't have parapets, the gravel would have blown and washed off. Consequently my roof oxidized badly.
Graveled flat roofs just aren't very interesting, so I understand why they aren't modeled.
I like that idea! Nice thing about modeling, I can change anything I want!
Jim
Just catching up on your build here Jim. As I'm new to the Forum, I'm still finding my way around.
Amazing what you have been able to achieve. I'm very much old school as I'm pretty much a luddite when it comes to technology.
But you seem to have fully embraced it with a laser, a 3d printer and the cameo cutter.
And mastering all the software side of it, which I guess is the really hard part. Great to see something different.
Great looking building. The brickwork is especially nice. and good to see someone actually doing a very large building. Too often, and not by choice, we have to build smaller structures to fit.
Yours really does look industrial in size.
Jim that is some impressive work and detailing. Wonderful tutorial on your doing all this.
Jerry
Jim just read through your thread. Not sure if this is kit building or kit manufacturing,
but at any rate your results are outstanding. Looking forward to seeing the finished build
on your layout.
Jim,
Very impressive work. Fantastic looking Flour Mill.
Tom
Quote from: robert goslin on February 11, 2025, 04:50:29 AMJust catching up on your build here Jim. As I'm new to the Forum, I'm still finding my way around.
Amazing what you have been able to achieve. I'm very much old school as I'm pretty much a luddite when it comes to technology.
But you seem to have fully embraced it with a laser, a 3d printer and the cameo cutter.
And mastering all the software side of it, which I guess is the really hard part. Great to see something different.
Great looking building. The brickwork is especially nice. and good to see someone actually doing a very large building. Too often, and not by choice, we have to build smaller structures to fit.
Yours really does look industrial in size.
Rob, thanks for joining the Forum and for stopping by. Frankly most of the guys that post their work here on the Forum are much better modelers then I am, I simple use the tech toys to close the gap as best I can. The programming required is much like learning an airbrush, you simply get better at it the more you use it. This is by far the biggest building I have made and most likely will always be. I have one spot on the layout for it but the overall layout is small so there will only be the one then back to smaller buildings.
Quote from: Jerry on February 12, 2025, 09:29:56 AMJim that is some impressive work and detailing. Wonderful tutorial on your doing all this.
Jerry
Thanks Jerry.
Quote from: Larry C on February 12, 2025, 10:21:21 AMJim just read through your thread. Not sure if this is kit building or kit manufacturing,
but at any rate your results are outstanding. Looking forward to seeing the finished build
on your layout.
Larry I have found it does give new meaning to scratch building. Designing and making the windows, doors and all the other parts does add a lot of time but I am beginning to see where I can draw on past projects for current ones. Such as the board on board look I will be showing on the warehouse I used before as a floor on another structure. Some doors are reused as well. Thanks for checking in.
Jim
Quote from: ACL1504 on February 13, 2025, 02:03:52 PMJim,
Very impressive work. Fantastic looking Flour Mill.
Tom
Tom, thank you. I'm trying to mimic mills of 1912 we will see how it turns out but I know this will be the last really large building I make for the layout.
Jim
At this point I turned my attention to the third and final structure of the facility, the intake warehouse. These early mills did not have storage silos but instead received and stored the grain in regular buildings. The grain was delivered by, horse wagon, train or canal boat, held in barrels or burlap bags with the bags ending up how all grain would be delivered back then.
For my layout I will have the product delivered and shipped using all three methods. From the warehouse the grain was often transported by a unique conveyor system that utilized gimbaled buckets that while moving on a vertical conveyor would dip into a bin full of grain and send it up to the top floor of the processing building. There it began the process of being turned into flour. Fire and explosions were a very real danger so these early warehouses were well vented, other then that they came in all types of shapes and sizes.tt
I am going to admit something here. Often in my modeling I end up wandering, finding what I designed either not right or I end up not liking the result, quality, overall look or whatever. I for the most part simply leave these dead ends or redo's out of what I report. But I've decided to show all the bumps and hiccups for this structure, at least for now. I may decide in the future to leave the bloopers out but for now you will see the clumsy methods I often use to make something. The reason I say this is frankly I have no clue how this building is going to end up. I was going to just make the outside finished but inside parts keep creeping in and I am not sure if they and the design will be right or if I will simply start again.
So let's start, my initial idea is to make the warehouse out of wood with a 3D resin printed corrugated roof. It will have a coupla with lighting and venting. Here goes:
The design is a simple wood structure much like a barn with warehouse doors on each side at dock height. a wood platform will be on either side for receiving of grain from wagons on one side and trains/ canal boat on the other. I used tinkercad to design the building and cut the walls out with the laser. However, I want the walls to look like board on board with nail holes. The laser will sketch this look into the 3mm birch plywood. Creating the look is done by simply speeding up the laser travel and reducing the power output. For example, it takes my laser 5 passes moving at 400 mm second at 100% power to cut through the 3mm birchwood plywood. Entering the board on board lines and nail holes is done at 1500 mm per second, only 1 pass and at 80% power. The floor will be set at dock height as well with 1/8 x 1/8 wood used for straightening the corners and a 1/4 x 1/4 strip wood used across the upper length of the structure to keep thing straight.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210104-542751342.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210319-542892280.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210319-54291127.jpeg)
As you can tell I left some steps out of how I got to this point but imagine you've seen this part done before and most likely better. After cutting the wood it was spray painted country white on outside and black on inside. I used a #12 knife to lift some of the boards to get the slightly used/ worn look. The corners are 1/8 x 1/8 basswood strip painted cottage blue. This will be the trim color for the entire building. To keep the structure straight while the canopy glue set I placed it in a Micro Mark steel building box with square magnets keeping everything in the right place. More in a minute.
Jim,
Just spent time catching up on your build. That is a great looking complex there and excellent modeling.
Personally I like seeing the 'bloopers", it's how we learn.
You might of caught site of the freight door frames and doors in one of the previous photos. The design of the door frame is a simple one that allows for two sliding doors and has a row of windows above to help with lighting. The frame was designed with tinkercad and has the 'pocket' idea I like to use to slide real microscope glass between the outer and inner mullins. The doors themselves are cut from the birchwood and a board design etched into the wood using the laser. The doors also have very small pane windows and I simply glued a small cut slide across to complete the look. I think I will add an inner finished door by gluing a paper printed door to the inner wall of the door to give the finished look, we will see.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210010-542731004.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210319-54287867.jpeg)
As you can see from above photo in addition to the freight doors I designed vents using the 3D printer and colored them iron. Well I need to stop at this point for the night I will catch rest up in day or two.
Howdy Jim,
The design and build of the intake warehouse look terrific. The doors are convincing. I like seeing folks use both the 3D printer and laser.
Have fun,
mike
Interesting design pocket for the glass. Where do you get the glass and how do you cut it?
Philip
Jim, great job of programming the laser to create the board on board look.
It's very convincing.
Using real glass is always a nice touch.
It's coming together nicely.
One of your first posts indicated incoming shipments on some prototype structures being unloaded from canal barges.
Is this source of shipment something that will be represented on the layout? I can't recall viewing the final layout location for the structure in your posts?
Dave
Quote from: friscomike on February 14, 2025, 08:44:13 AMHowdy Jim,
The design and build of the intake warehouse look terrific. The doors are convincing. I like seeing folks use both the 3D printer and laser.
Have fun,
mike
Thanks Mike;It has been fun, especially the research, I love the history of that time.Jim
Quote from: Philip on February 14, 2025, 08:53:43 AMInteresting design pocket for the glass. Where do you get the glass and how do you cut it?
Philip
Hi Philip;
I use to get the glass from Clover House, it's called Clover glass however they have been offline due to issues so I researched and found Amazon sells a large microscope cover slip that is something like 22 x 44mm, the same dimensions as Clover, more importantly it is the same thickness about .06mm. I use a number 88 General Tool scribe and with a metal ruler as a guide cut the glass with the scribe. I place the slide cover on a thick sheet of tempered glass for cutting, the hard smooth surface helps with clean cuts. The glass from Amazon is over 1/2 less than cost was from Clover. I still think the clover glass cut a little easier but this new stuff works fine too.I make the pocket for the glass .65mm wide so the glass slide in easy but looks flush.
Jim
Quote from: Dave Buchholz on February 14, 2025, 10:50:44 AMOne of your first posts indicated incoming shipments on some prototype structures being unloaded from canal barges.
Is this source of shipment something that will be represented on the layout? I can't recall viewing the final layout location for the structure in your posts?
Dave
I scratch built a canal boat delivering barrels of flour to the mill and hope to have it docking near mill offloading the barrels. This is how it looked next to original setting and will look similar on new I hope.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-160225222342-54349498.jpeg)
Thanks for posting that prior picture of the canal packet boat.
I've been a big fan of the later history of the Erie Canal and it's descent, the New York State Barge Canal. In particular was the development of the steam barge. There will be one featured on the North Coast.
Artitec makes a few versions suitable for 1/87 usage.
Nice scratch build on that boat.
Jerry
Quote from: Jim Donovan on February 16, 2025, 10:10:34 PMQuote from: Philip on February 14, 2025, 08:53:43 AMInteresting design pocket for the glass. Where do you get the glass and how do you cut it?
Philip
Hi Philip;
I use to get the glass from Clover House...................
Jim
Thanks Jim. I already have that general tool scriber so I'm half way there. I always thought a diamond tip scribe was the tool.
A very nice looking vessel. It has that steamship survivor look to it.
Philip
So tonight's addition to the warehouse saga is titled, ' in search of an amazing roof, or any roof that fits'. This is a story of missteps, big ideas and poor execution starting with I really did not know what I wanted. My first idea was to have metal corrugated sheeting from BEST glued to a wood base using 3M two sided tape. I decided to also have a cupola to add venting and would in real world house part of grain conveyor. So here it is (was):
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-240225220733-544821956.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-240225220726-54481481.jpeg)
At first I thought it was OK but paint flaked off, I bent some of the sheets ANS it did not fit the building neatly. So I then thought why not have the resin printer print out a corrugated roof in one piece! It was doable according to my measurements, but just. The length needed was a minimum of 240mm and the printer could handle 245. I found a corrugated design on line at the Thingverse.com website. I needed to modify the size, shape, thickness even the rounded corrugated look but it was not too hard. My hope was it would fit snug to structure and allow for it to be removed so you could see the interior. After an 11 hour print job here is what I got:
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210216-542851747.jpeg)
Other then the fact I missed on the dimensions, shape and had exceeded limits of printer (note the lower right clipped edge) it was perfect, oh brother.
Not one to be stopped from continuing this running in circles I decided to get creative withe the 3D printer creating an entire rafter system, then having the printer produce a sub roof complete with rafter tails and covered with paper corrugated 3 x 15 panels held in place with 3M two sided tape. Due to size issue I would make the sub roof and rafters in two parts and glue it all together with CA glue.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210216-542831472.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210216-542842484.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-240225214642-544781109.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-130225210010-542721979.jpeg)
It was a nightmare to get everything in place, lined up and glued correctly but after toning down the rust you see in above photo it did not look bad, but it was flimsy and did not sit correctly on building.
So I took the best ideas from each attempt and did the following, first I made the sub roof using .2 styrene sheeting. I then had the 3D printer make modified corrugated sheeting that appears overlapped but nailed in place straight. These panels were glued to the styrene using CA glue spread on the styrene and a fast set spray put on the undersides of the panels. Carefully attaching the parts together I put weights on one side till dry then did the same for the other side. I have not weathered roof yet but it will be much less then the first attempt. I have also shown the cupola lite so you get an idea what I want from this section. The roof fits well so we will consider this part done. What a meandering mess I made of this but I like the final look.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-240225214803-544791186.jpeg)
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/785-240225214809-544801410.jpeg)
We will talk about all the eclectic involved next time.
Looks great Jim. Whilst the first try at it looked good, using what to me looks more like raised seam roofing, I like the corrugated roof better.
Regarding the flaking paint. I assume you undercoated it first and left that to fully cure.
Otherwise, occasionally paint will still flake off, especially if the material is flexed. or might have been a dud batch.
The lighting setup looks great.
Coming together nicely Jim..... 8)
I love the canal boat. I always wanted to do a canal scene, after seeing the Delaware & Hudson docks in Honesdale PA.
dave
Howdy Jim,
It's clever to use the 3D printer to gang print the rafters. Pam's is one terrific looking structure and it is not even finished!
Have fun,
mike
Jim,
Your model builds are coming along nicely. The flour mill and waterfront structures are great.
Tommy