As I'm off 6 weeks post surgery and and limited to 10 pounds of lifting, this challenge came along at the perfect time. I picked FSMs Jeffries Point Stave and Heading (George's 1995 kit). I have a perfect spot for it on the Empire in the area I can't seem to ever get finished. It will not have track access, it will just be truck accessed (I noticed in the rules it has to be "railroad themed"). This doesn't matter as I don't expect to win any prizes, I'd just like to get something done for the layout.
Another caveat, I can't guarantee this will be done by the end date of the challenge, maybe even next years ;D. Anyone who's seen any of my past builds will note they take a loooooooong time.
Jeff
Here's the classic box contents pic. Wood, laser cut walls, signs, templates, instruction booklet (easier than handling the old fold out instruction sheets), and the box of castings.
Jeff
I first read through the instructions. I panicked a bit as there's a bag with four plastic windows, but no other windows in the box. They are metal and in the castings box. I separated these into three piles. The instructions show the building to be grey on grey, but I saw a pic online of a dark green structure with light grey trim and think this will look good for it's spot on the layout. The three piles are "wood", "black" and "grey". These will get a primer coat of tan, black or grey, depending on their pile.
Jeff
In our 3D printing world, most metal castings can be crude, these are quite nice. I'm sure some will have parting lines, etc., but the windows and doors required minimal clean up and are quite detailed. After some minimal filing, I washed them in Dawn and let them dry before taping them for their priming. Now to see if I have any grey primer.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on November 25, 2024, 07:42:59 PMAs I'm off 6 weeks post surgery and and limited to 10 pounds of lifting, this challenge came along at the perfect time. I picked FSMs Jeffries Point Stave and Heading (George's 1995 kit). I have a perfect spot for it on the Empire in the area I can't seem to ever get finished. It will not have track access, it will just be truck accessed (I noticed in the rules it has to be "railroad themed"). This doesn't matter as I don't expect to win any prizes, I'd just like to get something done for the layout.
Another caveat, I can't guarantee this will be done by the end date of the challenge, maybe even next years ;D. Anyone who's seen any of my past builds will note they take a loooooooong time.
Jeff
Great start Jeff and yes it fits the contest rules. 'Trains theme' simply means scenes commonly seen where you might also see a train nearby. Look forward to watching thanks for being part of the challenge.
Jim
Jeff,
Enjoy your time off. I'll be following along and watching very closely.
Tom
Thanks for the clarification, Jim.
Jeff
The first week of time off wasn't great, but I'm doing much better now. Thanks for looking in, Tom.
Jeff
You'll have a blast with this one! I have it in my stash, to build, as well. I traded, with Tom, my completed version for the kit. It's been a while since I built this one, however I can't recall having issues with it whatsoever. Maybe the stairs at the tall end are a bit challenging but nothing you won't be able to handle. :)
Neat kit, I'll be looking in..... :)
Hi, Bob. Yeah, the stairs look a bit imposing, we'll see how that goes.
Jeff
Thanks for following, Greg.
Jeff
Some metal pieces, mainly vents, pigeons and these barrels, were still attached to sprues. I used the rail nippers to cut them off, the large file to get the big nub off and then the smaller files. This got boring, and when I got some of the vents done, I decided to stop and start bracing the walls. I won't need these details for awhile. The windows/doors are the first set of the metal parts that will be needed and they are already primed.
Jeff
Bracing time. The instructions want the walls painted and detailed (nail holes, etc) before this. I know they will warp when I stain and paint them, so I do the bracing first. Nice bracing diagrams in the kit. I did already have to remove one that "moved" when I put the weight on it and would have blocked a wall. There appears to be a lot of bracing material in the kit, but I did the one short wall using some of my slightly larger bracing stock, so I won't fall short.
Jeff
Nice start, Jeff!
Bracing the walls takes quite a bit of time. Like you, I prefer to brace them prior to painting and weathering them. ;)
One the of many great things about FSM kits is that George always included more than enough strip wood to get the job done. I always have extra when I finish one of these kits.
You're right about the extra wood, Bob. I have quite a bit of the bracing left and even used extra pieces. I'll need some for the roofs, but I should be fine. I should have remembered I had a lot of left overs from my last FSM kit build a couple of years ago, as seen in this pic.
Jeff
I spent most of the day finishing the bracing and deciding on color scheme. This is usually a very difficult issue for me, and I end up just choosing whatever colors the kit was painted by the builder. But for this one, I didn't like the all grey look. I'd seen a dark green with grey trim pic on line and liked that, so I took a piece of larger stripwood and stained one side with the light grey hunterline stain, which is my usual base. I then took most of my Vallejo green paints and painted a small strip over the grey and bare wood to compare the colors. I also had a Delta Ceramcoat Gamal Green which is the one on the far right. I also painted the top of the caps with their respective colors.
Jeff
I had originally thought dark green and grey, but using the two colors here, I'm leaning toward the dark green with light green trim, eliminating the grey. I'll let these dry and maybe scuff up them both with a wire brush and add some black oil wash tomorrow to compare again. I'll also start staining the walls.
Jeff
Started staining the walls. These two wall pieces had no bracing instructions. with the first coat of stain, they haven't warped, but I looked into the instructions and they can be braced (I was worried their backsides would show as they are against the roof), so I'll do that after this coat dries.
Jeff
Of course looking at the instructions I forgot about two small wall pieces, which also don't have bracing instructions, and braced them. I'm sure these would have warped without it. This is typical for my builds, where I forget some piece and then everything stops until it's stained/painted, etc. That is one reason I take so long.
Jeff
I brushed the test pieces, added nail holes and an oil wash. The light green is much less bright now. I then put them on the layout under the less intense lighting (versus the workbench), and I think I'll go with the lighter green as the wall color. Still undecided on the trim, dark green vs grey. Leaning toward the grey, maybe a bit darker shade.
Jeff
If you want an alternative trim color, consider Boxcar Red... Those wall sections look good!
dave
Great start Jeff. It is not just you that forgets parts or even jumps past a step and has to go back trust me. ::)
Jim
Dave, you just want red and green as it's Christmas season. ;D A dark red would probably be a good combo. Yellow might work also, but I don't have any really compatible yellow paints. I painted the stick with 4 different greys which were close to the window color and one is a near match. I will use a slightly darker shade as well on the trim and sponge pain the grey windows/doors for some variation.
Jeff
Glad I'm not the only one, Jim. I spray painted the backs of the walls flat black. I hope this will help them not warp and will eliminate any bare wood views through the windows.
Jeff
Real (Big Bird :) ) Yellow is tough to get to look good (doesn't cover very well,) and an expensive pigment from an historical perspective. A yellow ochre would work, both historically (cheaper pigment, long lasting) and in terms of the color on the model. https://artyclick.com/color-names-dictionary/color-names/yellow-ochre-color/
dave
Dave, I rarely mix colors as I have no art talent. I think if it had been possible to flunk art class in school I would have. There's a reason I have the Vallejo Model Color set with 200 colors. On top of some cheap art store stuff and few left over polly scale colors.
Jeff
Stained the siding with the Hunterline light grey. One coat, let dry and then another and it seems to have been enough coverage.
Jeff
This morning I was quite ambitious and painted the siding. I put a small blob (this isn't an exact science) in one of the pots on the palette and mix it with some distilled water (about 60/40 paint/water), then apply with the wide flat brush. This makes an uneven coverage, especially with the large sides. I then fill a pot with distilled water and using the same brush use the water on the sides while still wet to even the colors out. I want them irregular, but not too "splotchy". We'll let this dry for awhile and see how I like it. Next up is staining the strip wood.
Jeff
Quote from: deemery on November 30, 2024, 09:28:10 AMReal (Big Bird :) ) Yellow is tough to get to look good (doesn't cover very well,) and an expensive pigment from an historical perspective. A yellow ochre would work, both historically (cheaper pigment, long lasting) and in terms of the color on the model. https://artyclick.com/color-names-dictionary/color-names/yellow-ochre-color/
dave
A 'tint' is the base color with added white. A 'shade' is the base color with added black (be careful, a little black goes a long way). A 'tone' is the base color with added neutral grey. So if you are trying to match, or want to get a subtle difference in weathering, this gives you an idea how the color changes. On my Vallejo color chart (you do have one, right? Mine is hanging up above the paint rack ;) ), "913" is "Yellow Ochre."
Hope this helps on a (future) project!
dave
Thanks for the info, Dave. I have the color chart on my computer, along with the ModelAir chart as well.
Jeff
Next, I use this metal brush to rough up the sides. Works well to knock down any areas where there's too much paint. Also exposes some of the base stain. I don't want this structure to be too run down, so I went easy on this step. Nail holes next, that gets tedious, so I'll probably take a few breaks and stain the stripwood.
Jeff
Nail holes (you may argue for/against on your own), are done with this "Gyro" tool, I think it's from England. It makes more a point hole than the linear "hole" some of the pounce wheels do. The square makes the lines straight. Some of the walls are too high for the square, so I use a straight edge to finish those rows.
The templates show where the nail holes go, I don't think I've seen that on a kit before. I usually just do 3 foot or 4 foot centers, whichever looks better. George's template is probably more prototypical.
Jeff
I press fairly hard on the pounce wheel, which unfortunately broke these to mall areas between the windows. You'd think after the first broke, I would have braced the second, but..... ::). Simple repair and I'll brace them before trying to fit the windows.
Jeff
Next is the "raising of the clapboards". I cut some of the boards, then use the Monster Nailer, which makes two nail holes on each side of the cut and then raise the edge of one of the clapboards with a chisel blade. Too much pressure can cut the board off so be gentle here, or glue the board back on (I only had two of these). This is the last wall, thank goodness.
Jeff
Jeff,
This is coming along nicely. I'm looking forward to more of your build.
I have this kit on my layout. I gave ReadingBob my unbuilt kit for his built diorama. I took it off the diorama and now have it on the layout.
Tom
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-150621162015.jpeg)
I have this kit on my layout. I gave ReadingBob my unbuilt kit for his built diorama.
Score another one for Bob the Builder!
dave
Thanks, Tom. I'm saving the picture of Bob's wonderful build for reference.
Jeff
Jeff,
I'm just getting caught up on this thread. Great progress thus far. Jeffries is one of my all time favorite FSM kits. I've never found one at a price I felt was within my modeling budget, so seems great to live vicariously through your build.
Thanks for following, Jerry. FSM kit prices peaked a few years ago, but still commanding fairly high prices on ebay and the like.
Jeff
Yesterday I stained all the stripwood. I use this "olive server" and let them soak awhile, usually about 10 minutes. Then put them up to dry. Stained each size separately so as not to mix them up.
Jeff
I've painted the 1/16 inch square trim pieces. I put a strip of paint on a piece of cardboard and use a grout sponge to sponge paint and also draw the paint across at times to even out the finish. I also painted a door and a window with the sponge technique over the spray paint grey, but the colors were so close it was hardly noticeable. I thought it was a bit too light, but a thin wash of black oil paint aged it up well enough. Now to decide whether to glaze the windows with real glass (NO!), or clear acetate vs micro crystal clear liquid.
Jeff
Jeff,
Nice little staining tray. BTW, if you need any other Jefferies photos I'll send them to you via email or post them here for you. I don't want to steal your thread.
Tom
Thanks for the offer, Tom, but the pic you sent shows all the stuff I needed.
I was kind of at a thinking point yesterday. You'll notice I'd ruled out cover glass for the windows, but if Mr. Donovan can cut arched windows, certainly I should be able to cut simple rectangles. I did one and it wasn't bad, so we'll give them a go.
Interestingly in the instructions, George didn't fit the acetate into the windows, he states he just glued it on the inside walls. The slight gap is hardly noticeable except on close inspection, but this building is right in front of the layout, so I decided against this. though it would be a major time saver.
Jeff
Another thinking point was order of assembly. The window frames need staining before the glass it put in. I need the window openings to measure for the cutting of the glass. So I'll stain the siding and the frames, cut out the glass, install the glass and windows, then add the other side details (vents, etc) and signs. Then assemble the building.
Jeff
Looking good Jeff.
Love the glass window idea ;D
Jim
We will see how the window cutting goes, Jim, but I prefer it to the plastic windows and I don't think Krystal Kleer windows would work well with the metal castings, and I usually end up with bubbles in them anyway.
Jeff
Black stained the walls, windows, doors and the grey trim. I sealed this with Tamiya flat spray as the oil paint can sometimes rub off with a lot of handling, and the grey doors/windows weren't quite flat. You can see how the black accents the nail holes on the piece on the left, which has had the grey trim added. Adding trim to the long wall as well.
Jeff
Jeff,
Looking good Doc.
Tom
Jeff,
What Tom said!
What Tom & Jeff said..... 8)
Thank you, Tom, Jerry and Greg.
Doing the trim pointed out a problem. Even with the bracing and spray painting the interior, there is some warping. Looks like I'll need to put some larger bracing on as well.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on December 05, 2024, 03:04:43 PMThank you, Tom, Jerry and Greg.
Doing the trim pointed out a problem. Even with the bracing and spray painting the interior, there is some warping. Looks like I'll need to put some larger bracing on as well.
Jeff
You could mist this and put it under weights overnight to see if that flattens it out. But more bracing would still be appropriate, I think.
dave
Dave, as the back is painted with spray paint and I used Dullcoat spray on the front, I doubt the water would penetrate to help flatten it. I got the curvy one pictured flat with more bracing and will go that route, but thanks for the suggestion.
Jeff
I bet a bit of moisture would get in (based on my own experienced with painted but warped pieces.) Wouldn't hurt to try ;D
dave
I'll try it tonight, Dave. Keep it weighted overnight and we'll see.
Jeff
It's window time. I first placed all the windows in their places. Some of them have bent/broken panes, those will go on the side that will face away from the aisle. Need to make sure they fit, sometimes the wood swells from the paint (and warps :P ),and they don't quite fit. Only one window and door on the first long wall needed any filing to make them fit.
I trace the window opening onto paper, this is for the "open" windows. Place the cover glass precisely on the corner and tape it down so it won't move. Using the straight edge, gently drag the scribe along the line to be cut. After a few light passes, it will separate. Retape it if necessary and cut the other line. glue the window casting in place (I used super glue gel) and then the glass with tiny amounts of Micro Krystal Klear. I clean the glass with some eyeglass cleaner and a microfiber cloth before inserting.
Easy Peasy as someone used to say. ;D Three down, twenty seven to go. :o
Jeff
Jeff,
I'd argue with the "easy peasy", but cannot argue with the result. Your wall and windows look great, love the weathering on the wall, the raised boards and the weathered paint are very well done. Kudos!
Dave, wetting it down and weighing overnight did help some, but not quite enough, but a good tip that I'll use in the future.
Jeff
Thanks for the kind words, Jerry.
Jeff
Well one wall of windows is finished. The two small holes are plastic windows that are modeled in the open position and the instructions note they will probably break off while putting the walls together, so we'll wait on those, though I will glue the frames on.
I can do about 5 windows before I need a break. Not all the cuts are "perfect". Sometimes a slight defect will occur, especially at the edge/corner. They are so small that they don't show. I also cut one a bit too large and placing it broke it in two. :P There will be glass pieces left over and sometimes tiny shards of glass. I immediately use some tape to pick these up. You don't want to get a piece in your finger, they'd be very difficult to remove as they break so easily.
All the tape/glass goes into a dedicated trash can that I will empty with leather gloves when finished.
I remembered I had this little suction cup device that I bought precisely for this type of thing. Usually I forget this stuff until I'm finished. ;D
Jeff
Jeff, that waste would be a good thing to use a plastic food container and lid, taping it shut when done, and putting the whole thing in the trash. Kinda like a sharps bin from the office...
I use a plastic screw container with a slot cut in it for holding used X-Acto blades. When it's full, I tape over the opening and throw it out (safely.)
sharpssmall.jpg
dave
I use old antacid jars for the blades, Dave. I think for the next glass window project, I'll use a disposable larger bin. Thanks for the idea.
Jeff
Finished the windows. Added some shades. After auditioning several colors, the depot buff won out. Large doors are next, then the wall details and signs, I think. Need to brush up on the instructions again.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on December 09, 2024, 02:08:59 PMFinished the windows. Added some shades. After auditioning several colors, the depot buff won out. Large doors are next, then the wall details and signs, I think. Need to brush up on the instructions again.
Jeff
Jeff,
Looking good Doc.
Tom
You're making good progress, Jeff.
I had my reservations about that green - but now its dirtied up some I'm coming around.
Cheers, Mark.
Hello Jeff, the large walls are looking good. I agree with Mark, I wasn't sure about the green color at first, but it's really coming together now.
Thanks, Tom. Your build is looking great as well.
Jeff
Thanks for looking in, Mark and Jeff. The green looks darker on the layout than in my office lighting. At first I wasn't sure, either, that's why I did some test pieces first.
Jeff
I cut out the signs which describe the products the "stave and heading" company makes. I've always thought these looked a bit odd on the original structure, I'm not sure why. Maybe because back in the day everyone would know what was manufactured here. I think on the original grey structure they're OK, but on the green, even with more weathering, they look "off" to me, so I'm leaving them off. I'm renaming the structure anyway, "Jefferies Point" sounds like I named it after myself, though it's an actual place in Boston.
This is one of the few FSM structures that doesn't really have many advertising signs on it, as it's a manufacturing firm, so I may not use any of them, either (there are some included and on the original structure).
Jeff
Most of the wall details are vents and a couple of cyclones. I usually put the metal details like this into a blackening solution and buff them so they look like aged metal, but I did a couple and didn't like how they came out, so I painted the cyclones black and the vents with a silver stencil paint. Ten used black oil wash and then rust oil wash with Dullcoat in between. The cyclones were so large I didn't think they would glue well to the walls, so I drilled a small hole in them and used some 0.15 wire to go through the wall and help hold them for the super glue to set.
Jeff
Next I glued all the pieces to the walls. Then used some "pitch" around them. This is just black paint in Elmer's glue. This was applied with a very small opening. This needed to be repeated on some spots 2 or 3 times as the "pitch" shrinks after drying and sometimes leaves gaps.
Jeff
Some black and rust oil washes then aged up the wall. One more wall to go and then it's time to glue the walls together.
Jeff
Cyclones and vents look great. Good idea to add that wire to them as well.
Nice progress Jeff..... 8)
Hello Jeff, great job on the air vents- they look very realistic.
Thanks, Bob. I also use the wires on chimneys, roof stacks, etc so I can make sure they sit straight.
Jeff
Thank you, Greg. Not fast progress, but progress.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. They took a bit of time, but I think they look good as well.
Jeff
The structure isn't a rectangle, it's a trapezoid. We'll see how well this goes together. First two sides together.
Jeff
It's nice that there's a full size template so you can try to get the angles correct. The instructions say to connect each long wall with an end wall, then put both halves together. I thought it'd be easier to put the sides onto one end, and then the other end. This is a long building, needed to get a pretty big clamp.
Jeff
I needed to add some "shims" to get the end wall to fit. Also, the warping on the walls made my first attempt to glue the end wall on not work very well, so more bracing was added first. Of course this interfered with two braces already on the end piece, but these were easily removed.
Jeff
I attached on side and let it dry and then the other.
Jeff
I really like those "1-hand" clamps even for HO model work. Clever use of the magnet/metal tray set-up to support the trapezoid shape, too.
dave
Next the middle wall pieces were added.
Jeff
Yes, Dave, the magnetic tray and all the magnets came in handy to get the shape correct.
Jeff
It's starting to look like a building! 8) Next up are the roofs.
Jeff
Hello Jeff, you've made some great progress. The building looks fantastic with the walls asssembled and the wall details add a lot of character. Nice job. The wall color and the clapboard detailing really stand out in your pictures.
Looking good, Jeff.
I didn't realise this building wasn't a rectangle. It seems strange to me that there isn't a base to attach the walls to. That's certainly what I would do if I was scratchbuilding. Have you missed a piece of corner trim? The small corner next to the gable? It could just be a heavily stained piece...
Coming on nicely.
Cheers, Mark.
Yeah, I agree with Mark. A base (interior floor) would have been very helpful for alignment and overall structural integrity.
dave
Thanks, Jeff.
Jeff
Mark you are quite observant. I lost that piece of trim somewhere along working with the walls. It has been replaced. I don't believe any of the FSM kits have a base, I'm just glad there was a diagram to build it over.
Jeff
I agree, Dave. I had never noticed that it was a trapezoid until I saw the template. From the pictures, I believed only one wall was angled.
Jeff
The structure has four main roofs. The first has a combo of two of my least favorite roofing materials. Campbell shingles and corrugated metal. The shingles are just on a couple of exposed areas where the metal has "come off" to add some detail/age to the structure. My main issue with the shingles is as they are on a roll, when you try to put them on the roof, the line tends to curve. These strips are pretty short, so it shouldn't be a problem. They are also easier to install with 3M transfer tape, as are the metal pieces. I hate them as they always seem to chip when handling them so the metal shows through.
Jeff
Each roof has many (MANY) rafter tails. I start by marking on the outside of the roof where these go. Then cut out the roof before painting the underside of the roof (which makes the printed marks go away), I then place the card back in the cutout and remark the places with a white pencil. You can see the roof needed a slight trim to fit.
Jeff
The instructions want the first roof braced and attached, then do the rafter tails and then the roofing. There was no way I'd get the shingles on if it was already on the structure, so I put them on first. I marked the card with parallel lines to ease alignment and marked the places for the shingles to go. Cut out the spot on the tape and applied them.
Jeff
Another issue is there are two chimney stacks which go on the roof. To get these to sit straight I glued some wood inside the structure and used some shims that would get up to the roof for them to stand reasonably straight. Next up is the first set of rafter tails. The two middle roofs use tarpaper, so I'll paper them before adding as well. The peaked roof uses the Campbell shingles again, I'm not sure I'll use them or something else.
Jeff
Jeff your doing some very nice work on this build.
Jerry
Looking good Jeff.
I use canopy glue as well as double sided tape with Campbell shingles. If you kind of pinch them and attach every inch they should stay straight. The double sided tape holds them in position but the thin strip of canopy glue makes sure they stay there. I use the Troels Kirk method for painting. You start with a blackish brown watery mix which you try to get in all those little hidden spots. When dry you hit with a series of dry brushes in paynes grey, light browns and tans. Its very simple and very effective - like all Troel's work was...
Cheers, Mark.
Thanks, Jerry, I'm making slow but steady progress.
Jeff
Mark, I've found with using only short strips and the transfer tape, the shingles stay pretty straight. I've not had much luck with coloring them, I should make a test piece and try your advice. Mr. Kirk did great scenery work.
Jeff
I made some view blocks. The tall section is just a piece of black construction paper, the longer part of the structure I used some firmer cardboard and glued construction paper to both sides.
Jeff
I painted the rafter tails the trim color and aged them with the black oil paint stain. Then, I cut a rafter to the correct angle for the roof and set my Ultimation cutter to the angle and cut short pieces. I didn't try to cut these to exact length. Then glued them on using the white lines on the underside of the roof.
Jeff
I then used these straight clippers to clip them to length. Yes the one is "off" and will be reattached. I will wash the ends with A&I to remove the new wood color, though soaking them in the alcohol stain shows very little new wood color on the ends.. The ones on the other side of the roof will be a bigger challenge as the building is kind of in the way to putting them on.
Jeff
Great progress, looking good Jeff..... 8)
Jeff,
The build is really coming together nicely. It will be a great addition to your layout.
Tom
Thanks, Tom. Your build is as well.
Jeff
I rigged up a way to put the rafter tails on the other side of the roof. If there isn't enough glue on them they pop off when you use the clippers, so I had to replace a few, then put one on backwards (!). Anyway, on to the tarpaper roofs.
Jeff
There's a sheet included to paint for the tarpaper roof. I usually spray the paper with black, tan and grey spray paint to make it not look so homogonous. As I'm out of grey paint, I looked through my "roofing" drawer and found these Paper Creek sheets. They look better than anything I'm going to paint, so we'll use them here.
Jeff
In the instructions and on the model, George has the paper "hung" perpendicular to how I've done it. Both roofs slope front to back, so that's how I did it. Time for the second roof and then more rafter tails. :o
Jeff
I loved the Paper Creek products. To get an even better look from them, cut the individual pieces out and then color the white edges with a marker.
dave
Dave, I found a Prismacolor Grey marker that was very close to the color of the "tar" on the roof. I used this on the edges, and did use some individual pieces.
Jeff
The result looks really good! There's some depth to those tarpaper pieces when you shade the edges. I think I still have a sheet or two of this in my stash. (We used it on the kit project I did with Clint Hyde about 20 years ago.)
dave
Jeff I just found this category! I never claimed to be a brain surgeon! ::) Great modeling so far.
Jeff just getting back to this build. Beautiful work on the roof. A nice way to do rafter tails!!
Jerry
Thanks, Curt and Jerry. Haven't done much since before Christmas on this, but getting back to it in the next few days I hope.
Jeff
Jeff,
The build is looking great. Love the roof papers.
Tom
Nice work Jeff.
It's going to take me a while to go through this whole thread, but what I see from the last picture you're doing an awesome job here.
It's looking good Jeff..... 8)
Howdy Jeff, the structure looks amazing. The view blocks are clever. Have fun, mike
Thanks, Tom, Phillip, Rick and Greg.
Jeff
Thank you, Frisco Mike. Good to see you've found your way back to the forum.
Jeff
I didn't do much after the holidays, really wasn't into it. I did add the two next roofs, one of which wasn't even, so I had to pull it off, sand off the glue, repaint it and reinstall it. The first roof sides were parallel to the wall so I made on rafter and cut the rest on the Chopper. This went pretty well. I forgot to remark the places where the rafter tails went on, but didn't want to remove it again. The roof edges aren't parallel to the wall. I don't know why. So each rafter tail had to be measured and cut. I couldn't use the cutters as the tar paper overhangs the roof. I tried to eye ball the distance, but that didn't work. I made a card strip the width between the rafters, but I had to wait for each to dry before installing the next one. On the other side I used paint on a piece of wire to mark the positions, this one went a little bit faster.
Jeff
One major decision was what to use on the last roof. I didn't want to use the Campbell shingles, so I picked Northeastern Scale Lumber shingles. Here's the sheet sitting on the roof to compare colors. I did tone down the tarpaper with some black oil wash. Next up, cut the shingle sheet to fit the roof.
Jeff
I like the NESL shingles (but the sheets are usually too small for my buildings.) I've found they look better if you tone them down a bit, I'm using Pan Pastel Neutral Grey Shade, applied with a make-up wedge sponge:
IMG_0577.jpeg
dave
Everything looks very good. The shingles will be a good addition. I also like the subtle color variations on the tar paper Jeff.
I like the idea of the Pan Pastels to tone them down, Dave.
Unfortunately, I hadn't noticed that the edges of the roof are not parallel and are not perpendicular to the ends. I think the shingles will look odd if I "follow the lines" with individual strips of shingles. Looking at pictures of finished models, as the Campbell shingles are irregular, this is more easily covered up with them. My other thought would be a standing seam metal roof. The seams wouldn't be perpendicular to the edge, however. Hmmm....
Jeff
Scrap of standing seam roof cut to fit. I think it looks OK. I'll let it sit for awhile and see how I feel about it later. Of course, that means I need to pick a color for it. :o
Jeff
I'd cut the shingles "square" and not worry about the oblong/offset overhang with the building underneath.
dave
I made a copy of the shingles and I think you're right, Dave. It looks OK this way as well.
Also, for a background building, I think the copy would look fine.
Time to go shovel the drive again (pushed about 6 inches this morning, looks like another 2 or 3 and it's still snowing).
Jeff
What a cantankerous-looking building! And I mean that in a good way!
I wonder about cutting the shingles "stepped/staggered" along that diagonal edge. If you have a small piece of leftover shingle material, try that and see if you like the result.
dave
Beautiful kit.
Jeff I was wondering can you cut a new sub-roof so that it's square?
Thanks, Phillip.
Jeff
Curt, I'd cut a roof card like that and didn't like it, but I didn't try it with the shingles. This is what is looks like.
Jeff
I think no matter what I do, something will look "off" as the front and side walls are not perpendicular nor parallel. Dave, I think that would be true with the single shingles placed on the edge. Having a touch of OCD is why this bothers me. The regular roof with the shingles cut off and a gutter in place would explain the "cut off' shingles. Right now I think the metal roof is the least objectionable. I'll give it a while and see what I decide.
This is why it takes me forever to build a kit. I get bogged down in this kind of stuff. ::)
Jeff
I hear ya, Jeff! I've often suffered from "analysis paralysis" when I can't figure out what, why, or how to do something. But now that I've seen more pictures, I think the metal roof will be least objectionable.
(And I'm reminded of a saying that ran through my family: "Doctors bury their mistakes, architects copy each other's and call it 'art'. " ;D )
dave
I'll have to tell my daughter the architect that one, Dave. ;D
Jeff
Father was structural engineer, one brother a carpenter, the other an architect. I'm the one person in the family not in that business...
dave
The roofing has been applied. Again the angle looks odd, but it would have anyway. I need some black primer, as the can I have peeled off easily after a trial spray. I'm thinking of black and then airbrushing grimy black over it or perhaps zinc oxide or a dark brown. I think the darker colors will hide some of the weirdness.
Jeff
The Zinc Oxide color isn't bad, but I think a darker color will "hide" the roof's irregularity. The dark brown is kinda meh. I think I'll go with a "grimy black" look. I got two different spray cans at Lowe's, we'll see which one covers well and doesn't come off the metal.
Jeff
Actually I like both colors but I think the Red Oxide would be easier to weather. But saying that, if you prefer the black then paint it black since you will be looking at it daily.
Looking good, Jeff.
I'm guessing in the prototype they would have never put that kind of a roof on a shape like that. I know this building is based on a prototype, but I would imagine close examination would show little quirks to deal with the shape - a small return in the wall or an angled flat section of roof. To roof this shape with gables you would either end up with angled soffits or every truss would be a different length. Having said that, our cardboard cathedral is shaped like this. Personally, when driving towards it, I think it looks terrible - like a giant stuff up. Your structure has the quirk factor to get away with it!
Cheers, Mark.
Jeff, I think the metal roof was a good choice and I like the black color as well.
I'm inclined to think a dark grey with some weathering would be least obtrusive.
dave
Thanks for looking in, gentlemen. I'm going to go with a grey black. I have two samples of spray paint drying to see how well they adhere to the metal. I'll probably airbrush over them with a "grimy black".
Mark, here's a picture of the prototype, posted on another thread which I can't remember at this time. It looks to me like the front and side walls are perpendicular. I suppose Mr. Sellios designed it as a trapezoid to fit an area on the FSM or to make it more interesting visually.
Jeff
Great job Jeff on one of my favourite FSM structures.
Always was unusual with the different stepped rooves, and also the walls tapering.
I Intend to scratchbuild one in N scale one day.
really enjoying your version.
Plenty of photos of the real tunnels, but that above photo is the only one I've found with the building in place. The tunnels are stil there, although boarded up. The building is long gone.
Have a look at this on FB
Jeffries Point (https://www.facebook.com/groups/120835437949980/search/?q=Jeffries%20point)
Jeff in the SW kit I'm doing it had me after spraying the metal roofing putting it in the oven at 350 degrees for 3 minutes to help adhere the paint.
Rob, thanks for posting the photo originally. The link to how the tunnels are today is interesting. In such a congested area I can't believe that they haven't been filled in.
Jeff
Curt, I'd be worried the cardstock roof and/or wood supports would burst into flame at 350. Is your roof cardstock? I'd think a plastic roof would certainly melt at that temperature. Heating it to adhere the paint does make sense.
The Rustoleum Auto Primer I used seems to have worked OK, as it's dried for almost 4 days. I'm going to over spray it with Dullcoat before attaching it to the structure and weathering it.
Jeff
Did some bracing today myself. Makes for nice straight wall! Great kit!
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on February 21, 2025, 11:34:18 AMCurt, I'd be worried the cardstock roof and/or wood supports would burst into flame at 350. Is your roof cardstock? I'd think a plastic roof would certainly melt at that temperature. Heating it to adhere the paint does make sense.
The Rustoleum Auto Primer I used seems to have worked OK, as it's dried for almost 4 days. I'm going to over spray it with Dullcoat before attaching it to the structure and weathering it.
Jeff
Jeff I thought you were using actual metal roofing. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Well, if you recall your old movies/SF novels, paper catches fire at "Fahrenheit 451". But if all you're doing is curing paint, you don't need to do that hot....
dave
Jeff that is a great looking build you're doing. It'll certainly
take up some real estate.
Thanks for looking in, Phillip.
Curt, the actual roofing is metal over cardstock. I sometimes use styrene sub roofs.
Dave, I'd forgotten paper goes at 451, I'd be a bit concerned about the adhesive (the 3M tape).
Thanks for the kind words, Larry.
Jeff
Jeff,
Just getting caught up on the build. I love it and you've done a great job on solving the few issues of the roof.
Tom
Thanks, Tom. One more issue to solve on the roofs was after installing the last roof. I weighted it down and it must have shifted, so I removed it and tried again. I've done this with three of the four roofs. :o Not sure what my issue has been on these. but they are on.
I think the color turned out pretty well, a few spots needed touch up, though I thought I'd covered it pretty well with the spray paint. Seems to not call attention to the irregularity of the roof.
Next up, the rafter tails for the last roof.
Jeff
That looks very good Jeff. I like how you connected the metal and tar paper roofs.
Well, Jeff, sometimes "shift happens." I had that happen with the ridgepole on the Lamson project, it moved just enough to open a gap on one side between the ridgepole and the shingles. I carefully pried it off and tried again.
dave
Looks great! 8)
Very nice great job!
Jerry
I like the color, Jeff. Well done.
Mike
"We need to put up a new building."
"I agree. Shall we form a committee?"
"Splendid idea! I love architectural chaos!"
"I'll go brew a pot of tea while you pull random villagers in off the street. But- Poll them on their tastes in rooflines, Gerald. We won't tolerate homogeneity."
"Note made."
This is *such* a characterful pile. And I agree about the color.
The dark metal roof makes sense and hides the trapezoid shape. The result looks very good, but I might weather that roof a bit more, it looks too monochrome.
dave
Thanks for the positive comments, gentlemen. The roof will get some weathering, Dave. I've had to replace a couple of rafter tails that have come off with all the handling of the structure. Next up is putting on the corrugated roofing on the high roof.
Jeff