Moving this thread over from RR-Line. My first brass scratchbuild, working from John Porter's Oct. 1977 Model Railroader article. To turn my 7 NMRA AP certificates into 8 plus MMR, I need to scratchbuild 4 cars. Much more about the prototype in Ted Culotta's blog post:
https://prototopics.blogspot.com/2018/04/pennsylvania-railroad-fm-flat-car.html
I've got decent soldering equipment and I'd like to be able to operate the car empty, so I decided to do it in brass. Here are the center sills soldered together with one side sill and 4 of 6 connecting plates:
Here I've got the top flanges correctly centered, and I've started attaching the connecting plates. Old (Radio Shack) 60/40 rosin core solder and Tix flux using the soldering tweezers of an American Beauty resistance unit:
Here I've made the side sills and attached the connecting plates to one center sill:
(https://modelersforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=100748;type=preview)
The center sills have been connected and pinned to my soldering pad to attach the crossbearers:
(https://modelersforum.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=100748;type=preview)
I'm using 1/32" x 1/16" K&S bar for the webs (the bolster ends are hidden after the sideframes are soldered on). I cut one 45" long piece for each web, another 22" piece for the sloped part. Once they're soldered to the top plate, they're well enough attached that I can file the necessary angle.
The most efficient way I've found to solder them is: Tin all surfaces to be joined, place everything where it will go and hold the top pieces down with the soldering tweezers. Then I help hold it in place with another pair of tweezers and hit the foot switch.
The picture shows a filed bolster at top right, an unfiled bolster center right and the five tinned pieces of the next bolster bottom right.
The bottom sheets of the bolsters get added once I've placed the brake pipes and handbrake rod in slots cut in the bolster webs.
(Previous post edited because I exceeded the character limit. But now one picture is repeated. Above text explains the last picture above)
Top and bottom of the mostly-complete underframe:
Next I had to decide in what order to apply:
- bottom flanges of the crossbearers
- side sills
- end sills
- longitudinal stringers that support the plank deck.
I chose bottom flanges first, then stringers. Next solder the side sills on while the frame is resting on the stringers so the deck is flat, and follow with the end sills.
Side frames attached to cross bearers and bolsters:
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Sorry about the glitches above, this is my first try at posting pictures to the new (to me) Modelers Forum software. I exceeded the 20,000 character limit, I'm informed.
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I filed down K&S 1/8" brass channel to make the ends.
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The upper right corner joint was fixed the next day (March 6, 2021). Resistance soldering tweezers and an insulating soldering pad made this job go a lot faster than I could have managed with my gun and collection of irons.
I decided I should insulate the trucks from the frame: A high-resistance DCC short could draw 2 amps without tripping a breaker. And there are plenty of 25- and 30-watt soldering irons on the market; they take a minute or two to warm up.
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I used Kadee #158 'scale head' couplers. It had been years since I'd assembled a Kadee box. I marked and drilled #50, then tapped 2-56.
I soldered 1/16" brass pads to the bolsters and step-drilled the centers out to 1/8". The photo shows one time the drill found a spot maybe .020 off-center to start; I should have cut my marking lines deeper. I press-fitted 1/8" styrene tube in each hole and adjusted the height of the car. Then I tapped them 2-56. The truck screws expand the tube a bit for a very firm fit.
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After a test run and some adjustments, I applied 1/32" bar stock stringers.
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With the car body mostly complete, I started on the brakes:
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I modeled the pipes coming out of the AB valve in two halves. The hand brake rod is installed but I couldn't add the brake staff etc. till the deck was on.
I finished the brake equipment but decided to leave it off till I finished soldering - not the time to find out how temperature sensitive epoxy is. So I started on the stake pockets. Porter filed a notch into the side of his aluminum XActo miter box to shape the pockets. I used a .0625" slitting saw in my milling machine to make a slot in a piece of steel scrap. The saw wasn't running particularly true, so the notch is a bit wider than 6 scale inches.
Then I cut some 1.75mm strips of .010 brass. I pressed it into the slot with a small file's handle, then snipped each pocket off. I tinned the mounting surfaces of a dozen with my 100W gun. Then I located each (prototype spacing is uneven) and sweat-soldered them by placing one tweezer point on each mounting surface.
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It took a while to work out the best technique for using my jig: hold the free end of the strip down with the blade of a screwdriver while pressing the file handle down. And a couple appear to have gotten pinched by the tweezers. But with solder, a re-do is usually possible.
I had the next dozen made. Rope staples (4), grabs (8) and drop steps (4) will come after
Footnote: My modeling caliper is a 1970-vintage Craftsman vernier with english & metric scales. The easiest way for me to use it for HO scale feet and fractions is to measure 3.5mm, 1.75mm, .875mm etc.
After all 24 stake pockets were installed, I changed to Tix low-temperature solder and installed the end grabs. Next I did the side grab irons, also with low-temp solder. I find the American Beauty likes this job best when set to about 80 watts.
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The grabs are bent from Tichy 0.0125" phosphor bronze. There are two handednesses of side grabs. All 4 end grabs are identical, but all 8 need 4 bends each. This is because I didn't think I had enough #80 drills to drill 16 holes in .015 brass.
Next step (excuse my pun) is bending drop steps from DA .010 x .018 brass strip. I made the bonding surfaces as large as possible, but the Tix solder is fairly strong. Finally, 4 roping staples next to the bolsters.
Those were the last soldered parts. I cleaned the soldered assembly, epoxyed the brake gear in place and airbrushed the body. I blackened the projecting steps, grabs and stake pockets. I didn't have enough blackener on hand to dip the whole thing, and would be a bit concerned about corroding joints loose even if I did.
Were I doing this again, I would make the necessary jigs and silver solder at least the flanges to the side and center frame members. Maybe the bolster sub-assemblies too. I've made those parts shift a bit several times while applying coupler mounts, floor stringers and stake pockets.
I decided to emulate the prototype's drop steps, where the steel strap was twisted 90 degrees at the top, using DA .015 x .024 strip. This mounting also avoided crossing the slight offset visible between the bottom of the side frame and the bottom of the end channel:
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Happily, my flat-jaw pliers are about 15 HO scale inches wide. I first made 4 90 degree bends, making a 15" square shape with a gap at the top. Then I used the soldering tweezers at 80 watts to heat-anneal the brass mounting Ls. Then I twisted the Ls at the top 90 degrees with two pairs of pliers, tinned and sweated the step into place. Only two of the corner grabs came off while doing this, and they went right back on.
I also got a little clever with the roping staples (cable loops, possibly other names) next to the bolsters: To save myself holes, I used round-jaw pliers to bend a 180 degree J shape on the end of .0125" wire. Then I drilled a single #75 hole right above the corner joint of the side frame. I passed the wire through, touched it with flux and heated the bottom flange of the side frame over the hole. The solder from that joint flowed onto the wire, securing it. Then I cut off the extra wire inside the frame.
When the drill got dull doing the 2nd hole, I was really channeling model railroading from the B&W era: I picked up a fine stone, put the thickest lenses in my binocular magnifier and sharpened the drill. Took me about 5 tries to get a decent point, but it finished the job.
Old MRs have shown me reasons to use brass; several figured in this project. Small metal details are much more durable than most other materials. An example is the Carmer Cut Lever. The Pennsy thought highly of them but they vanished before I started hanging around the tracks in the late 60s. There are etched versions but none match the pivot location and depth on the FM flats:
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Heating brass wire red hot anneals or re-anneals it. First I annealed all but the ends and bent it to the basic offset shape:
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I heated it a bit more thoroughly than I planned, but I'm within the range in pictures:
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I re-annealed the S-bend in the middle and punched a hole through the center with a steel pin. I didn't drill because I didn't want to remove material from something hanging off the end of an operating car. Pete Magoun gave me Cir-Kit Concepts 1/8" brass brads for doorknobs. But I hammered one through the small hole in the lever. Then I drilled the end sill channel. I tinned just the tip of the brad with Tix low-temp, touched the hole with flux and slipped the brad through. I put the tips of the tweezers on the ends of the brad at 70 watts for a few seconds:
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The lever moves on the pivot. Getting the S-bend wide enough to punch is necessary, but doesn't always happen. Maybe a smaller hammer?
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I have '1mm x 0.3mm' brass tube from Precision Metals (which might now be part of K&S). It's .020 inside diameter, so worked as brake pipe connectors. I wrapped a copper zip cord strand around the bend for an angle cock and flattened the end to make a gladhand. There are nicer looking commercial products but this will survive operating.
I cut another wheel off the Cal-Scale 190-289 sprue; it was cored for an .020 shaft. I punched a .0625 disk of .010 brass with a Micro-Mark die set, drilled it and soldered both to a phosphor bronze shaft, about 40" apart. The stirrup support and chain waited till the deck was done. So I filled my ultrasonic cleaner with well water and a sprinkle of trisodium phosphate for fluid:
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The brake gear's epoxy was setting as I shot the photo. I used some extra to better secure one of the truck mount tubes; the frame had risen up when I retracted the drill bit, making the hole a bit loose.
Moving this thread from RR-Line to this point has taken a couple of hours, so time consuming but not impossible.
Incredible! Thanks for sharing. :)
Wow. Really craftsman work.
Jeff
Looking at this thread again... I wonder if you have the risk of intermittent shorts with the trucks rubbing against the bolsters. Maybe that can be resolved with paint.
dave
James,
Oh man, very impressive. I love all things brass. Fantastic brass modeling my friend.
Tom
Doin' it the hard way! Bravo!
Thanks, all. The work above was done between Feb. 17 and March 25, 2021. Then I wasn't satisfied with the first decals I applied, plus I decided I needed to apply rivet decals if it was going to be judged. And the track work season began at Seashore Trolley Museum just after I'd installed the timber deck....
The painted flat car before I installed the deck. I used ancient Floquil 'Boxcar Red' from a can I'd gotten from a modeler's estate:
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And some comments on how I solder copied from the original thread:
1. I own NoKorode paste flux but haven't used it for models or track work since I discovered Tix flux 25 years ago. I find the grease base very tricky to clean up. I haven't been bothered by Tix going where I don't want it; you can always use a smaller brush than the one that comes with the bottle. And there is Tix 'Anti Flux", which keeps solder from wetting surfaces. I first used it a bit on this job, but I can't say I'm expert yet.
2. I couldn't have done this without sweat-soldering. Only the flange/sill joints were heated and touched with wire solder. The coated parts don't fit perfectly until I apply pressure to the joint as I heat with the tweezers. When 360F is reached, it all liquefies and the parts go to their final positions.
3. I'm using 63/37 Tin/Lead, which is 'eutectic' (melts all at once at 360F/183C). I had a .032 diameter rosin core Radio Shack roll upstairs, so that's all I used. Downstairs I have a finer Kester dispenser, because that was where I built most of my signals. Yes, you mustn't put your fingers in your mouth while working with it. I find 50:50 inferior, and wouldn't even use it on full size plumbing pipes. And I was once sold a coil of 'lead free' that I only use for filling in switch frogs. I think lead-free plumbing solders have improved in 25 years, but I haven't experimented.
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The deck, cut from Northeastern Scale Lumber 3x6 (HO) stock.
I stained the HO scale 3x6 basswood deck with Minwax Dark Walnut and let the wood sit on a window sill till it felt dry. I spent a little while thinking about how to assemble the deck. I played with transfer tape, thinking about putting it on the underside of the wood. I decided the exposed stickum would accumulate dust.
Next I tried thinning Walthers Goo with Methyl Ethyl Ketone -- I have it for solvent welding styrene. I squeezed a blob of Goo into a metal palette dish and tried mixing MEK in. Mixed results; MEK is way too volatile for a stable mix, the texture was changing every couple of minutes. And even with the window open, the fumes were noticeable. Seems some are dipping a brush in Goo, then in MEK. I was dipping a wire in the Goo/MEK mix and painting the tops of the stringers.
At any rate, I like how it turned out - few threads and no blobs or threads visible from below:
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The Goo bond has stood up to handling while decaling, Solvaset while undoing the first decal job, and trimming the projecting ends of a dozen boards.
The last brass part was the bracket supporting the bottom of the brake staff:
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The fine copper wire came from zip cord.
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A little eye exercise installing it. A loop of copper wire holds the chain to the bottom of the brake staff.
And here the epoxy that will hold the stirrup to the frame and floor is curing, with a little dab to retain the brake staff.
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I lettered it with a mix of decals, which I wasn't at all satisfied with. And Seashore was demolishing an old carbarn to replace it with new, and I was knee deep in dismantling the old track, storing it and reinstalling it for the new barn. So it sat for almost 3 years.
James, really neat modeling on this brass flat car ! Hope you earn all the merit awards needed for the award.
Tommy
James,
Just fantastic modeling my friend.
Tom
That's almost enough to make me try a brass flat car! Well Done!
dave
Thanks, Tom B, Tom L and Dave. I've helped judge a few NMRA contests and I've already got one Merit Award for a lightweight sleeper built from car sides on a core kit. With rivets and light weathering but without a load I'm fairly sure of 88+ points. I'll have a better idea after I do the SoQ. But this is only the first of four scratchbuilt cars required, regardless of the sleeping car.
Beautiful work James..... 8)
Nice work James. Impressive to see somebody else work in brass. Good idea also to use brass for an empty car.
Bernd
Last night I studied my Archer and Micro-Mark rivet decals. Archer didn't make the 6" rivet spacing the FM plans show, but Micro-Mark does. MM's instructions suggest using an acidic "decal setting solution" first, then a "decal solvent" after everything is in place.. I read this as Micro Set and Micro Sol, but I don't have either on hand, just Walthers Solvaset. So I could try out the Internet's thinking that vinegar diluted 8:1 with water will substitute for Mico Set, or I could drive 30 miles to a hobby shop. Anyone with experience or opinions?
Quote from: jbvb on January 07, 2025, 10:51:47 AMLast night I studied my Archer and Micro-Mark rivet decals. Archer didn't make the 6" rivet spacing the FM plans show, but Micro-Mark does. MM's instructions suggest using an acidic "decal setting solution" first, then a "decal solvent" after everything is in place.. I read this as Micro Set and Micro Sol, but I don't have either on hand, just Walthers Solvaset. So I could try out the Internet's thinking that vinegar diluted 8:1 with water will substitute for Mico Set, or I could drive 30 miles to a hobby shop. Anyone with experience or opinions?
Now that's -rivet counting!- ;D
dave
I thought it was pretty obvious on the plans, but then again I've been the junior member of contest judging teams.
Here's the PRR "FM" flat car with the first decals removed. No reason to repaint till the rivet decals are added.
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And here the Micro-Mark decal rivets are in place:
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Here I've repainted the car from my ancient Floquil Boxcar Red. It's a can I got from the estate of a guy in town I hadn't known was a modeler. I'm probably 10 years too young to have seen Floquil in paint cans in hobby stores. But at about 65, the can still seals far better than anything I can buy hobby paint in today.
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Here the Speedwitch decals are ready for dull varnish. They weren't too delicate for Solvaset. I chose the number as a car still listed as in interchange service in a 1966 ORER. At least 50 years old then.
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James,
Great job on the decaling.
Tom
Howdy James, I have enjoyed your metal work and am happy to see you continue here. The flat car is outstanding. The rivets set it off. Nice work. Have fun, mike
Thanks, Tom and Mike. Today wasn't too cold to airbrush with the attic window open; I got out the old Scalecoat Flat Clear and sprayed the painted surfaces of the car.
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It needs brushed weathering on the trucks - journal grease, spring rust, brake dust etc. I'll probably finish with chalks on the body and deck.
Nice work!