I started this project last Nov. 2020. Anybody ever post on having to solder a building together?
This is the project.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh1.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh2.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh3.JPG)
These are all the parts to make up the engine house. The majority of them need to be soldered together.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh4.JPG)
The first thing the instructions call for is to solder angle pieces to the corners of the long section. Since this was an open kit and purchased at a train show, some of the angle pieces were missing. So, I made some up of .010" (.250mm) thick brass.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh5.JPG)
Of course, as Murphy would have it, none of the corners were square. I did an experiment on the best way to cut thin stock like this brass. I'll show that next.
I have a pair of these scissors. I think they have a medical term for them. I scribed a line and cut the brass.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh6.JPG)
Note how the piece has a twist and curl in it? Hard to straighten out properly.
Next up was a pair of small tin snips.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh7.JPG)
No twist, but it curled. Still tuff to straighten this out properly for the next process of bending an angle.
Next, I tried a regular pair of Fiskars scissors.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh8.JPG)
Same result as the first pair of scissors I tried.
I figured since this is very thin brass it should be able to be scribed like styrene and snapped off. I'm using a dental pick with a very sharp pointed end to scribe the lines. One for the bend and the second is scribed almost all the way through.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh9.JPG)
First I measured in 1/8" (3.175mm) and scribed a line. Then I measure in 1/4" (6.35mm) and scribed almost all the way through.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh11.JPG)
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh12.JPG)
The line that gets scribed where the brake happens leaves nice little curly cue chips.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh10.JPG)
Next the piece is placed on the edge of a sharp corner and bent down.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh13.JPG)
It is then bent back up over itself and it should break off. Sometimes it takes one or two more bends to do that. It depends on how deep you make the scribe. Just like when you do styrene sheet.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh14.JPG)
And success.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh15.JPG)
Next the piece gets bent to a 90° in a vise with sharp corner smooth jaws.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh16.JPG)
The 1/8" (3.175mm) scribed line gets lined up even with the vise jaw. Tighten the vise good and tight so the part doesn't move and using a hammer bend over the other protruding 1/8" (3.175mm) piece.
Don't hammer it over all at once. Work your way down the piece bending a little at a time.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh17.JPG)
Once bent all the way over it's time to make a nice sharp corner. Tap down till it's flat on the jaw.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh18.JPG)
A comparison with the brass piece and one that comes with the kit. Note that the piece was not bent all at once.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh19.JPG)
This is what happens when you finish bending the rest of the piece. You get a slight bend where you finished the second bending process.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh20.JPG)
You'll either need longer vise jaws or make shorter pieces. There are more ways to do a bend like this but it's beyond the scope of this thread. I know somebody is going to tell me I need to buy a brake press. Naw, I don't think so. Being a machinist for many years and home hobby machinist for the same amount of time, I'd build one.
On the next installment I'll get into soldering the angle pieces to the sides of the building and some of the mistakes I made along the way.
Until next time.
Bernd
Could you use sheet metal forming pliers/"hand seamer" for this?
dave
Quote from: deemery on January 08, 2025, 06:06:08 PMCould you use sheet metal forming pliers/"hand seamer" for this?
dave
I'm sure you could. I don't have a pair so I can't tell. The thing to remember is that the longer jaw the piece is clamped in the better the bend will be. Forming pliers have a short set of jaws. I think you'd wind up with a very wavy bend like I showed in the picture.
Bernd
Quite a project. I remember those kits from when I was in high school but I've never built one. I'll be following along!
I reworked that exact kit for my old railroad club. Somehow all the windows were missing. Was certainly a nice kit! Didn't you mill brass windows for that already?
Philip
Quote from: Philip on January 08, 2025, 10:34:54 PMI reworked that exact kit for my old railroad club. Somehow all the windows were missing. Was certainly a nice kit! Didn't you mill brass windows for that already?
Philip
Hi Phil,
Yes I did. I'm posting my build here for those who weren't/aren't on the RR-L forum. Plus if the RR-L is not saved then the build will be on this forum.
Bernd
Quote from: Bernd on January 08, 2025, 06:30:54 PMQuote from: deemery on January 08, 2025, 06:06:08 PMCould you use sheet metal forming pliers/"hand seamer" for this?
dave
QuoteI'm sure you could. I don't have a pair so I can't tell. The thing to remember is that the longer jaw the piece is clamped in the better the bend will be. Forming pliers have a short set of jaws. I think you'd wind up with a very wavy bend like I showed in the picture.
Bernd
I did a bit of rethinking on my answer to Dave's question on using a pair of metal forming pliers.
My thought is that it is not the proper tool for modeling purposes. It's a large tool designed for heavier bending than needed for modeling use. It's like taking an 8oz. ballpeen hammer to drive "N" scale spikes. Yes it's a hammer to drive in nails but is the inappropriate tool for driving "N" scale sikes.
The vise I'm using is case hardened and has very sharp corners thus I can get a good piece of angle in brass for modeling purposes. Another method that could be used are two pieces of tool steel clamped together in a larger vise to serve the same purpose as the vise I used.
Also notice I scribed a line for my bend. That helps in making sure to get a sharp bend plus a somewhat straighter bend than if using sheet metal forming pliers. A good example of this process are the brass etches used in scale model building such as signal towers or brass details on brass equipment.
As this series progresses, I'll show the use of a homemade resistance soldering tool, tips on soldering methods and two CNC machines to produce some of the parts for this build.
I hope you find this informative and demystifying in the building of a metal kit.
Bernd
Quote from: ReadingBob on January 08, 2025, 07:06:34 PMQuite a project. I remember those kits from when I was in high school but I've never built one. I'll be following along!
I worked in a couple of hobby shops as a teenager. One of 'em had piles of Suydam kits, and I can't remember seeing anyone ever buy one. They were terrifying, the metal ones, at least. That said, I'll be making popcorn for this thread. (And I have a spanky-new resistance soldering machine and corner clamps, now.)
Bernd, I bet you know some home improvement contractor with an aluminum siding bending machine. Have you thought about using one of those to get those long corner pieces?
dave
Quote from: deemery on January 09, 2025, 04:58:35 PMBernd, I bet you know some home improvement contractor with an aluminum siding bending machine. Have you thought about using one of those to get those long corner pieces?
dave
Again, Dave a tool not designed for model work. Like I said two pieces of tool steel about a foot long would work the best. Also, much cheaper than an aluminum siding bending machine and plus smaller.
Bernd
Quote from: Mr. Critter on January 09, 2025, 04:31:31 PMQuote from: ReadingBob on January 08, 2025, 07:06:34 PMQuite a project. I remember those kits from when I was in high school but I've never built one. I'll be following along!
I worked in a couple of hobby shops as a teenager. One of 'em had piles of Suydam kits, and I can't remember seeing anyone ever buy one. They were terrifying, the metal ones, at least. That said, I'll be making popcorn for this thread. (And I have a spanky-new resistance soldering machine and corner clamps, now.)
Oooo I love popcorn. Make enough for both of us. ;)
Bernd
Carry on sir. The viewer are in for a journeyman lesson on milling!
Philip
Bernd,
Very nice SBS on this. As a teenager, I attempted to build, solder the Black Bart Mine kit. What a disaster! I was successful on the power house one.
Looking forward to the rest of this thread.
Tom
Quote from: Philip on January 09, 2025, 06:56:37 PMCarry on sir. The viewer are in for a journeyman lesson on milling!
Philip
I'm thinking of doing a couple of posts in the "Modeling Wizardry" section on tabletop machines for use in modeling. I'm more of a mechanical guy in model railroading since I spent over 30 years in the machine tool industry.
Bernd
Quote from: ACL1504 on January 10, 2025, 08:27:27 AMBernd,
Very nice SBS on this. As a teenager, I attempted to build, solder the Black Bart Mine kit. What a disaster! I was successful on the power house one.
Looking forward to the rest of this thread.
Tom
More to come Tom. I've got almost 200 pictures on this build. Sometimes I think I get a little to verbose in my builds. I'm much into show details of certain procedures. You may need two or three bowls of popcorn to sit through this one. ;)
Bernd
Lets get to the soldering portion of the kit build.
First the corrugated sidings gets a good cleaning where the angle is to be soldered to. I use a stainless-steel wire bush to remove some of the oxide that has built up over the years.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh21.JPG)
I used rosin flux for a good bond with the solder.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh22.JPG)
I used a pair of 1-2-3 blocks to hold the angled piece square to the end of the building. I was able to hold the angle piece in place with the resistance soldering probe and in the other hand hold the solder. A quick step on the on/off pedal switch and it was tack soldered. I did that in a couple of spots and then went back and soldered the full length. Doing that helps to keep the angle piece in place while soldering.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh23.JPG)
Next came the longer pieces that needed to be soldered on the bottom. These are to be soldered on 3/32" from the bottom up. Again, a couple of spot solder joints and then back over the whole length.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh24.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh25.JPG)
Side walls are done
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh26.JPG)
As are the end walls. You can see the brass angles I had to make to replace the missing ones in the kit. The extra parts on the right are the doors. I didn't use them in the finished model since I didn't like the way they would have been attached.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh27.JPG)
I was going to assemble the back and front walls to the side walls, but that wasn't going to happen until I figured out what's up with the door's on the front and why the gap if you wanted to do the model with perhaps one door closed. A quick read of the instructions again stated that 3/32" wide strips were to be soldered to the edges of the door. So that makes up the 3/8" that is missing on the left door set. Really didn't like the butt joint it would have entailed
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh28.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh29.JPG)
When I started the project, I was thinking of making a set of wooden doors. I've never seen swinging corrugated doors.
Moving right along. The next parts are these angled pieces that get soldered to the roof halves.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh30.JPG)
Using two 1-2-3 blocks and a heavy steel block to hold down the part that will be soldered to the roof panel. It also needed to be centered. The wire with the brass part on it is the ground wire for the resistance rig. It gets weighted down with that piece of round stock with the orange paint on it for a good ground connection.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh31.JPG)
I began by spot soldering the left side first. The ground has been placed, and the probe is at the first solder point to be spot soldered. This will hold the angled strip at that end.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh32.JPG)
Then the right side was spot soldered. Now the that top piece won't move as you spot solder in several places along the roof line.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh33.JPG)
The solder should get sucked up under the metal.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh34.JPG)
Now the rest can be spot soldered in between the ends.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh35.JPG)
The one half is done with the hole for the chimney in it.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh36.JPG)
All the angles have been soldered on to the appropriate parts and the end walls have been joined together.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh37.JPG)
Next will be assembling the walls. This is not going to happen next because I want to add interior beams. It's not going to involve any great detailing. I just want it to look like something is holding up those corrugated panels.
Till next time.
Bernd
That is a lot of serious soldering there Bernd. Not sure how long that took you but it looks very well done.
Quote from: elwoodblues on January 10, 2025, 03:12:33 PMThat is a lot of serious soldering there Bernd. Not sure how long that took you but it looks very well done.
Hi Ron,
Not sure either after 3 years. The soldering didn't take long that long but the prep work did. I've got two more of these kits that I plan on someday making a four-stall engine house.
Bernd
Quote from: Bernd on January 10, 2025, 11:30:23 AMQuote from: ACL1504 on January 10, 2025, 08:27:27 AMBernd,
Very nice SBS on this. As a teenager, I attempted to build, solder the Black Bart Mine kit. What a disaster! I was successful on the power house one.
Looking forward to the rest of this thread.
Tom
More to come Tom. I've got almost 200 pictures on this build. Sometimes I think I get a little to verbose in my builds. I'm much into show details of certain procedures. You may need two or three bowls of popcorn to sit through this one. ;)
Bernd
Bernd,
Not a problem. I also post close to 2 hundred photos on my builds. I have plenty of popcorn.
Tom
I have just acquired the Orville Redenbacher company. Heat up some oil in your kettles, lads.
Continuing on with the Suydam Two Stall engine House I was looking at what I could do with the windows in this kit.
At this point I was also wondering if corrugated buildings were painted. After doing some surfing, I did find that they were painted. So now I had to decide what color I want the outside of the engine house to be. In setting up my NY,V & N Rwy. I have two colors I was looking at. The first colors simulated the colors of the telephone company perhaps 40 years ago. The Rochester Telephone company trucks used three colors, green, black & yellow. Can't remember which color was on top, yellow or green. The black was easy, it was the belt line.
Here some rolling stock I painted in that color. Both ways. One with the green on top the other with it on the bottom.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh38.JPG)
And then I have my second-generation color scheme following the "NYC Pacemaker" colors, except I added the white lighting stripe to emulate NYC's lighting stripe scheme. Both sets of equipment was named for the "Black Diamond Lines" because it was going to be strictly coal hauling line.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh39.JPG)
More on that at some point later when I start a thread on the layout itself.
Now to the next project on the engine house. I was going to assemble the walls, but I wanted to add interior beams to show the metal was being held up by a frame of some sort. While I was contemplating that I took a closer look at the windows that would be use on the engine house. The kit supplies an acetate sheet lined with ink to simulate the partitions of the windows.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh40.JPG)
Above is what they would look like glued to the inside. Yuk!!!!!!!!!!!
I came up with the idea of using individual pieces of wire to make the window panels. A jig would be needed to hold the little pieces of wire. I made three jigs in total. The first two were scrapped as they didn't work. I'll show you what didn't work first.
I made the first jig using a piece of bass wood with a piece of the engine house I had left over from the kit I had many years ago. It got thrown out due to the fact the metal actually rusted. I had drilled holes in it and added four pins so I could cut out wood parts to make a wooden round house. The project never left the ground.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh41.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh42.JPG)
Holes were drilled into the bass wood for a fret saw blade to fit through.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh43.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh44.JPG)
Tools needed to cut out the windows, fret saw and a small table with a slot in it.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh45.JPG)
Cutting out the window portion. You can barely see part of the saw. I just follow the inside of the metal window.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh46.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh47.JPG)
I used a second piece of 1/16" bass wood to draw the window outline on. The acetate window material was used to locate the lines for the wire on the wood. Notice the extended pins on the cutout portion and the holes in the solid portion of the bass wood. This was used for aligning the two pieces. This will facilitate getting the completed window out of the jig.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh48.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh49.JPG)
I had to order a new bottle of flux. I kept knocking over the bottle which makes a sticky mess and didn't leave me with much flux left. Along with that order is some solder paste that will be used to solder the window wires together.
To keep from knocking over the new bottle I decided I needed a non-tipping flux station. A piece of 1/4" Luan and some hot glue did the trick. I also added a brush holder on the side, so I didn't have to go looking for the brush every time I needed it and a small plastic shot cup to put some denatured alcohol in to clean the brush. The rosin flux fluid evaporates fast just leaving the rosin behind. This way I can wash and soften the brush up before using it again.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh50.JPG)
While I was waiting for the solder paste to arrive I started on the first window. It turned out to be a disaster. Below are the tools I used to solder the wires.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh51.JPG)
The wire I'm using is Tichy phosphor-bronze .033" thick. This equates to around 3" in HO scale. There will be a total of 20 pieces to solder together to make a complete window as shown to the right (the acetate window). I started out with the .033" and am thinking of going smaller for the smaller ones inside each larger panel of windows.
The first attempt was frustrating. There are several reasons it didn't work. The wood used is way too soft and scorches very easy if too much heat is applied. The smoke that is produced puts a carbon soot on the wire making it impossible to solder. A complete circuit needs to be made when soldering the wires together, an almost impossible job. The wires move as you place the probes on the wires. I applied a small dab of flux. Then used some solder pieces that I squished flat and placed over the joint and applied the resistance soldering probes only to have the wires move as I soldered them. Everything got miss-aligned. Plus, the soft wood was getting pretty burned. The next picture shows what's involved in trying to solder. Would the soldering tweezers have helped? Perhaps, but they were too large for this job. BTW I'm using a homemade resistance solder unit.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh52.JPG)
Here are the parts for the larger sections of the window. Note how bad the wood is scorched. Less heat? Perhaps.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh53.JPG)
At this point I was pretty frustrated at the outcome. So I will stop here for now. I'll show the solution I came up with the worked great in the next post on this project.
Bernd
Well, I'm learning a lot from this thread, starting with "probably not a kind of kit I want to build" ;D But the lessons on approaching metal work/soldering are still useful.
dave
Quote from: deemery on January 14, 2025, 10:48:44 AMWell, I'm learning a lot from this thread, starting with "probably not a kind of kit I want to build" ;D But the lessons on approaching metal work/soldering are still useful.
dave
That's one reason why these kits are so cheap at railroad shows. Many seem scared of soldering.
Bernd
Quote from: Bernd on January 14, 2025, 06:41:52 PMQuote from: deemery on January 14, 2025, 10:48:44 AMWell, I'm learning a lot from this thread, starting with "probably not a kind of kit I want to build" ;D But the lessons on approaching metal work/soldering are still useful.
dave
That's one reason why these kits are so cheap at railroad shows. Many seem scared of soldering.
Bernd
Very interesting! And I must admit I'm with both of you gents. First, with Dave on not wanting to construct this type of metal kit. And Bernd for not wanting to solder large projects of this caliber. I'm ok +/- with small solder joints but not this. BTW, I will continue following this but I spilled my popcorn and the dang dog got it!
Rich
Ok let's get to the real fun part of this soldering project.
There's two ways to do this. I'm going to show both methods. One showing building a fixture and the second using a CNC machine to make a jig. Since 99.9% of modelers don't have CNC machines in their workshop, I'll start by building a jig. The second jig will be machined.
I know what I want to do can be done. I've done it before. Back when I was into TT scale (1/10"= 1') (1 to 120) I was on the TTnut forum, a member wanted to know if it was possible to make an antenna for an Erie caboose. I'll show how that was done. It'll show how I would suggest it can be done.
Here's the setup I did on the TT scale radio antenna. This is what they look like.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antenna-2-tile.jpg)
I used my Sherline CNC mill and a rotary table to do this. I used a very pointed carbide scriber in the chuck and did about 10 to 15 scribe cycles.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antjig-12.JPG)
A hole was drilled through the center for the antenna shaft. In order to keep the wire held down I added some spring wire.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antjig-15.JPG)
I added small pieces of flattened solder after fluxing the joints of the wires. Plus, I added a piece on the surface as a timer to indicate when the solder reached melting temp.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antjig-16.JPG)
Next I placed the jig on a larger piece of aluminum and placed that on the gas stove. The secrete here is to melt all the solder at one time. Make sure you do this while the wife isn't home. You know the reason. 😉
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antjig-17.JPG)
The result was not impressive. Anybody tell me why before they look at the next picture?
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antjig-18.JPG)
What do they say about soldering parts together? Make sure the surface is clean. Write that on the chalk board 100 times.
Second time around after I made sure the wires were shiny and clean.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antjig-19.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antjig-20.JPG)
The pencil and penny in previous pictures next to the antenna give you an idea of size. Yes, it's small. .300" in diameter. I think I used .010" phosphors-bronze wire.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/antenna/antjig-21.JPG)
So having done this work but with a much better jig to hold the wires I was ready for doing the windows. I already had the G-code for scribing the window outlines. This will be the second attempt to do the windows. First, I'm going to build a jig to show that if you want to try this method you won't need a CNC machine.
Until next time.
Bernd
Continuing the project.
Solder Jig for Suydam Two Stall Engine House
The soldering paste is from Amazon as are the Tamiaya paint and Krystal Clear. The paint and Kystal clear will be used to glass in the window frames or so I thought. I'll explain later when I get to the making the windows. I'm going to show some failures along the way.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/equip1.JPG)
I got the first method of making a soldering jig for the window completed and soldered up the first window.
I started off by installing a couple of line up pins to keep the metal templet from moving around while scribing the lines. I used a couple of pins and drilled .027" holes in the aluminum for a snug fit of the pins. The base piece is a piece of 1/4" thick aluminum.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh54.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh55.JPG)
I used a dental pick to scribe the lines for the window opening. These are just for reference when taking the templet off.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh56.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh57.JPG)
Next, I scribed the same lines on a piece of .032" thick aluminum. The piece will be used to line up the outside perimeter of the window.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh58.JPG)
Once scribed I added a little color to help see the lines.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh59.JPG)
I then drilled a couple of holes for the fret saw, sawed out the openings and filed to the scribed line. This procedure is the same as outlined when I did the wooded part.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh60.JPG)
I then determined the midpoint of the window vertically and horizontally to scribe lines for the large sections splitting the window frames.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh61.JPG)
Then scribed the reference lines.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh62.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh63.JPG)
Using the alignment pins I added two 10-32 brass screws to hold down the top templet. Also added the "ground" for the resistance soldering rig. This is the same principle as a MIG welding table. You just place the piece on the metal table and weld. Here's it's an aluminum table and solder. Both methods present a short circuit to heat up the metal and fasten the metal two pieces together. Only here the solder won't stick to the aluminum table or templet.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh64.JPG)
The first set of .033" phosphor bronze wire pieces precut for a snug fit. The arched wire was first annealed to make it soft so when curved to the arch it would keep its curve. All pieces of wire have been cleaned to make sure they are free of any oxide that may have accumulated over time so the solder will adhere to the wire.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh65.JPG)
The arched part, the two outside pieces, the bottom piece and the top straight piece were placed in the jig first and a small amount of solder paste was applied to each intersection and connection point of the wires. The tip of the rig was touched to the separate sections and a quick step on the foot pedal and the connection was made.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh66.JPG)
The end result came out of the jig with no problem.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh67.JPG)
A bit of clean up with a small file and some sandpaper will make the joints look better. Next, I will be adding the four windows in each of the larger sections. I haven't decided if I should go with a smaller wire size to denote smaller window sections or stay with the same size. I was thinking of smaller for the purpose of actually having an open window. Maybe it's too early yet to attempt that fate of making a smaller window in the open state. I think that would mean more jigs.
This is a method for the modeler who doesn't have a machine shop in their basement or a CNC tabletop mill. The other way would be to use a piece of aluminum like I did and use the method I showed earlier in making the TT scale antenna by just using scribed lines, and they don't have to be made on a mill, and smaller spring wires to hold the pieces in place so they don't move during soldering. I would use one of these first methods if I had to make just a few windows, but for twelve windows I'm going to show the use of a CNC mill in making a jig to hold the wires. Plus, it's way more accurate than hand scribing.
Next, I need to decide which way to go to fill in those large squares.
Until then, enjoy your modeling.
Bernd
Up next is wooden beams for the Suydam Two Stall Engine House.
I was about to get the window jig drawn up and converted to G code when I discovered I only have one 1/32" diameter end mill. I know I'm going to break a couple before I get a good jig. These things are tiny and break easy. Here is one compared to pencil lead.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh73.JPG)
So, I had decided to put the windows on hold until I get more end mills. Ordered 20 from E-bay from the Drill Guy. So, in the meantime I figured I'd work on getting a wooden frame together for the inside. Well, I hit another slight snag. The instructions say to solder the bottom angle iron up 3/32" from the bottom. When I did that, it made no sense to me at the time, but I followed the instructions. Now that I want to add the timber framing, I can't extend the vertical poles all the way to the bottom. Only one solution and that is to unsolder the bottom angle iron and resolder it even with the bottom of the corrugated sheet. I got out my other resistance soldering tool with a carbon rod on the end and proceeded to unsolder the angle iron. The carbon rod is the rod that they used to have down the center of alkaline batteries. I saved them for this purpose. Used a hobby knife to lift the angle iron while heating the angle iron with the carbon rod.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh72.JPG)
In the photo above I showed how I unsoldered the angle on the bottom of the wall. I got it unsoldered, but a lot of solder was left behind. What I used is sort of a solder wick. There are commercial products like this for sale on electron sales sights, it's called solder wick. You heat it and it sucks up the access solder. What I'm using is known as a ground strap wire. it's woven just like the wire wick product. I added some flux to the wire and heated it up over the larger solder blobs. Worked like a charm.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh74.JPG)
I started to work on the interior by building a frame where the corrugated metal gets nail to. I used my CAD program to draw the frame but found out that the windows on the wall were not spaced very accurately. I used a 1/16" thick metal plate and magnets to hold down the parts for gluing.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh75.JPG)
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh76.JPG)
I finally had my window drawings finalized for making the jig for the Suydam engine house.
I started with a CAD drawing that got converted into G code for the CNC mill. Wrecked the first two milling cutters at the start. First, I forgot to tighten down the blank jig and the second mill got destroyed due to increasing the cutting feed rate. Back to square one with the third milling cutter. I cut the feed rate in half and am taking .010" deep cuts. Three passes and the jig was up... er done. 20 pieces of .033" diameter phosphor bronze wire cut to size. Ready to be put into the jig.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh77.JPG)
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh78.JPG)
This is the first window frame that I tried using the resistance soldering rig with. I used some rosin flux and a dab of solder paste. That didn't work out well. Not all the solder melted at the joint I was trying to solder. There is a reason behind this. It's an aluminum jig and sucks the heat from any neighboring material.
Next you'll noticed I made an engineering change to the jig. I added two shallow holes so I can get under the wire to pry it free from the jig. Remember the wire is supposed to be .033" in diameter. The channels cut are cut with a .0325" end mill. Slight squeeze fit for some of the wire, some of the wires were a bit loose.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh79.JPG)
The window frame on the left was the first attempt with the resistance soldering rig. I only tried a couple of wires before deciding it won't work. No pictures were taken of that part. The second try I used some solder flux and very small pieces of flattened solder like I did on the TT scale antenna. It worked okay but had an excess amount of solder at the joints. The joints were cleaned up with a file. Not bad but still needed some improvement on the amount of solder used. The window frame on the right was the first attempt at using flux and solder paste. Again, a failed experiment. Note I broke couple of solder joints trying to get it out of the jig. This was before I added the two shallow holes on either side. I heated the whole jig with a butane torch similar to what I did with the TT scale antenna, except on the antenna I used the gas burner on a stove. There's more to talk about the window on the right but I'll save that for the end when I wrap up on the comments.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh80.JPG)
So, the third and final experiment was a success. Smaller amounts of solder to clean up and no breakage of solder joints. I also didn't use any flux. The biggest issue when soldering is getting the solder to stick to the part. All metals form an oxide coating being out in the air. This oxide coating makes it almost impossible for solder to adhere to the part. So, I first used a piece of 180 grit sandpaper to clean up the wire. I don't know if it can be seen clearly, but the top wire has been cleaned. The bottom one hasn't been touched. They both may look shiny, but the bottom one is a bit darker.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh81.JPG)
Here I'm filing a bevel on both ends to the piece that fits under the arched piece. Remember this wire is only. 033" diameter. I'm using a pair of needle nose pliers that has a groove ground into the jaw. This was originally used for spiking rail when hand laying track. It helps to hold the wire while filing.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh82.JPG)
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh83.JPG)
Fits pretty good.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh84.JPG)
Jigs been loaded with 20 pieces of wire and is ready for some solder paste minus the flux.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh85.JPG)
Solder paste has been added and is ready for soldering 38 joints. How do you solder 38 joints? Very well, thank you.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh86.JPG)
Here are the tools needed for soldering 38 joints at one time. The second and third picture is fuzzy. Sorry about that. I guess I can't hold still enough when things get got.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh87.JPG)
Getting her hot.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh88.JPG)
About 15 seconds later the wires are all soldered.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh89.JPG)
Here's a short video showing the action.
Continued on in the next post.
Not sure what to think of your little machine shop, almost seems like cheating ;D Enjoying your progress.
Continuing on...........
Here's a better close up of the solder joints. Am quite happy. Next is getting it out of the jig.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh90.JPG)
Once I get a small portion lifted up I can slide an Axacto knife around and lift up on the frame to get it out of the jig.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh91.JPG)
Finally, out of the jig and not a broken solder joint.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh92.JPG)
Here's the frame without any clean up.
Front side that you saw in the video when the solder melted.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh96.JPG)
The frame flipped over to the back side or side that was down in the jig.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh97.JPG)
To sum up. The window on the left was the first two attempts at using the resistance soldering rig. Didn't work to good. Second try was using small pieces of solder and flux. Not bad but lots of cleanup work to get the access solder from the joints. The middle frame was the second attempt using flux and solder paste. This was a total failure using flux. The rosin flux is quite liquid when hot and ran all over the place when heating the whole jig and the solder of course followed the flux along the wires. This can be seen in the next picture of the wires that were facing down in the jig. The next problem with this frame was getting it out of the jig. The flux once cooled acted like a glue and glued the wire to the aluminum jig. I didn't care if I had to ruin the frame and bent the wires getting it out. This is what gave me the idea of adding a shallow hole on either side of the jig to pry out the wire and then run the knife around to prey out the rest of the frame. The window on the right used only the very smallest amount of solder paste and no flux. The only thing I did was to make sure all the oxide was sanded off the wire. So, this will be the method to do all the windows, 12 total for the engine house.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh93.JPG)
This picture is the back side of the windows in other words, the side the was on the bottom of the channels in the jig. You can see the differences in the solder joints when compared with the picture before. Note that the middle window has solder that ran all along the wires. This was due to the flux. Definitely not expectable. The window on the right is expectable.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh94.JPG)
So, what will they look like installed in the engine house without glazing? Here are the two better ones of the three.
(https://kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh95.JPG)
Now the production line begins for making the rest of the windows. It takes about an hour to do one window. Next I'll show how I'm going to do the glazing of the individual panes. That'll be another fun adventure, I'm sure.
Until the next installment.
Bernd
Quote from: chris.mincemoyer on January 19, 2025, 09:47:46 AMNot sure what to think of your little machine shop, almost seems like cheating ;D Enjoying your progress.
Well Chris, I like all aspects of model railroading and using different tools to help me produce parts not available to the general model railroaders. The tools and techniques I show are used by the model manufacturers to produce parts for the modeler that hasn't the got the where will all to do the same. Cheating, not really. I believe it's part of my 72 years of growing up leaning toward a DYI aptitude helped by my father's mentoring in doing things for yourself.
Why do I have such an interest in what and how I'm doing my modeling? I learned from my parents. Both my parents grew up in then East Germany during the lates 20' into the 50's. I'm a product of them being born in 1951 in East Germany.
We took an extended vacation through West Germany, two years in Canada and the rest here in the good old USA. I'm sure I don't have to tell you what my parents went through under a dictatorship. You learned to be self sufficient. Guess it rubbed off after all those years.
So now everybody knows a bit of history about me.
Bernd
It's kinda wild in the video watching all of the solder blobs suddenly melt nearly instantaneously... Lots to learn from this thread, even if it's stuff I'd probably never attempt.
dave
This thread is a lesson in pursuing and achieving excellence.
Quote from: deemery on January 19, 2025, 10:53:18 AMIt's kinda wild in the video watching all of the solder blobs suddenly melt nearly instantaneously... Lots to learn from this thread, even if it's stuff I'd probably never attempt.
dave
Aw, come on Dave. You could do it.
Bernd
Quote from: Mr. Critter on January 19, 2025, 12:15:27 PMThis thread is a lesson in pursuing and achieving excellence.
Why thank Mr. Critter. Once I get this thread finished and get to working on my quarry portion of the layout, I'll post my two HOn30 critter builds. This way when the ah hem, other place decides to go away again I'll have the complete build on this forum. That's what this thread is all about, to preserve the Suydam Engine House build.
Bernd
Going to get into a little bit of wood working next.
I decided at this point that I needed to get some sort of idea on framing up the first wall. So, I started to think how I wanted to do this. I figure the main 12" X 12" posts that hold the whole building up should be glued together first. Next, I'll do some corner bracing and horizontal beams just above and below the windows and then add the horizontal Gerts on a 3' foot vertical spacing.
Here's a pic of the layout. Magnets are great for assembly. They hold the wood just where you need it as the glue dries. I think this works better than weights on top. The magnets would even help in keeping wood from warping.
I use a piece of 1/8" sheet metal overlaid with a piece of paper. Aluminum strips about 2" wide are used as an edge guide on the left and top and are at a perfect 90°. I use magnets to hold the aluminum strips down. Smaller magnets are use in positioning and holding the wood.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh98.JPG)
I started to add bracing on the larger beams. I'm not too happy with my chopper I built a while back. It doesn't chop the wood square. So I made myself a crosscut saw using the lathe. Besides turning material round, you can use it as a saw.
I had made a mandrel a while back for cutting off pieces of PC board for making pc ties. I can lengthen it also for longer pieces just by loosening the chuck and sliding the arbor out to a length I need. Also what's nice about the lathe is how slow it can be run. Makes cutting styrene or any kind of plastic a breeze without melting it.
So I'm going to need a number of corner braces and two 45º angles on them. Here's the lathe saw set up to do that.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh100.JPG)
Two pieces of wood glued and nailed to the bottom guides the sliding table.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh101.JPG)
And the end result.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh99.JPG)
Couple more pics. All glued up and cooking. I'll see if I can get the frame off the wall without breaking a glue joint. I'm sure one or two are stuck to the metal.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh102.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh103.JPG)
I finished the second frame. Here are some pictures of it and the frame mounted against the corrugated wall.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh104.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh105.JPG)
After I finished the second frame I did a little photo shot at the stone crusher.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh106.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh107.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh108.JPG)
This is an al-la Bob Boudreau photo through the yet to be installed window and metal corrugated side.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh109.JPG)
Next will be working on the windows.
Until next time.
Bernd
There's something appropriate about an Iron City beer reefer peeking out behind this build!
dave
Uh....Wow! I'm at a loss for words on this one. :-X Okay, I'll settle for amazing but that really doesn't do it justice.
Quote from: ReadingBob on January 22, 2025, 08:48:18 PMUh....Wow! I'm at a loss for words on this one. :-X Okay, I'll settle for amazing but that really doesn't do it justice.
Thanks Bob.
Bernd
Looks like you have really progressed on this build since I last took a look on the old forum.
Very nice work Bernd.
Holy framer, Batman! What a nice way to cut precise angles in your woodstock.
I'll have to borrow a form of your concept to use in a future build. Thanks for sharing your skills with us.
Rich
Bernd,
Cheating? No, just good old craftsmanship and the satisfaction of building it yourself. That is one reason I always kit bash or scratch build my models, for the satisfaction that I can do it and have something I made nobody else has.
Fantastic and expertly done sir.
Tom
Thanks for sharing all the detailed postings, Bernd.
I've always been fascinated by those metal kits. I remember back in the '60s reading and re-reading my copy of HO Railroad That Grows, Linn Westcott wrote about building different sorts of kits, and Suydam's Black Bart Mine was given a bit of a how-to, which was really intriguing to me at the time.
Quote from: westtexjohn on January 23, 2025, 08:43:51 PMLooks like you have really progressed on this build since I last took a look on the old forum.
Very nice work Bernd.
The kit was actually finished last year IIRC. I'm only posting it here because of the other sites idiosyncrasies. I have many more kits form this manufacturer. Here are just a few of them.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/suydam-1.JPG)
Bernd
Quote from: Pennman on January 23, 2025, 09:51:27 PMHoly framer, Batman! What a nice way to cut precise angles in your woodstock.
I'll have to borrow a form of your concept to use in a future build. Thanks for sharing your skills with us.
Rich
Always willing to show my (secretes) techniques. This shows the versatility of a lathe. Not only can it be used with different materials, but using it in different ways.
Now I just need to get you to buy one ( ;) ) you could do the same.
Bernd
Quote from: ACL1504 on January 24, 2025, 07:46:54 AMBernd,
Cheating? No, just good old craftsmanship and the satisfaction of building it yourself. That is one reason I always kit bash or scratch build my models, for the satisfaction that I can do it and have something I made nobody else has.
Fantastic and expertly done sir.
Tom
Thanks Tom. I'm the same when it comes to having something I made that nobody else has. That's one of the reasons I follow your builds, always interesting and different.
Bernd
Quote from: IWannaRetire on January 24, 2025, 08:51:54 AMThanks for sharing all the detailed postings, Bernd.
I've always been fascinated by those metal kits. I remember back in the '60s reading and re-reading my copy of HO Railroad That Grows, Linn Westcott wrote about building different sorts of kits, and Suydam's Black Bart Mine was given a bit of a how-to, which was really intriguing to me at the time.
Thanks Mark.
I also have that book. And I have that Black Bart Mine kit and will be building it sometime in the future. My first foray in to metal kits was with Suydam's sawmill kit. I had to throw it away since it actually rusted. Talk abut natural weathering. More to come on this kit build.
Bernd
Continuing on. This portion will involve the use of a CNC machine. This one is called a router/engraver. I'll post a picture here of what it looks like and then post a full description and how I'll use it in the tool section of the forum.
This is the machine I bought. No longer available, but there are others. I'll fully explain in the tool section when I do the post in the tool section.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelrs%20Froum/Machines/Robo/comfin.jpg)
After getting the framework done, I was looking for a way to make window frames for the engine house. I've always wanted a CNC tabletop router as I have a few more ideas on what this machine may be capable of. After getting used to programming and fine tweaking the, form here on called a router, is a widow frame made from .010" thick sheet brass. The width is .030." all the way around.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelrs%20Froum/Machines/Robo/comgrow62.JPG)
I finally was successful in cutting out 12 window frames. I'll explain the learning curve along with the machine as I talked about above.
Here are the finished frames.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelrs%20Froum/Machines/Robo/comgrow70.JPG)
They still need the tabs filed down before being soldered to the engine house.
After cleaning up the window frames, I attached them to the engine house. Learned a lesson on resistance soldering. TURN DOWN THE HEAT. First two frames I soldered on warped on me do to too much heat being applied. The thin frames got annealed and wrapped where they still were hard. The second picture is of the first window. I did get it back to looking somewhat presentable. This first one is a full-on side picture with the two not so good windows on the right.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh128.JPG)
Close up of those first two windows.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh129.JPG)
This is on the other side showing a window where the temp has been turned down and I'm only soldering the corners of the frames to the building. Looks and works much better.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh130.JPG)
And of the rear of the building.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh131.JPG)
Soldering on the window frames step should have been done when the sides weren't assembled yet. It would have been easier to solder on the frames had the sides been laying down flat.
I took the shell outside in the nice warm weather and sprayed down with acetone to clean the oily residue and dirt of the metal shell. Once clean it got several light coats of Rust-toleum metal primer. Up next is getting the wooden structure painted and install along with finishing the windows.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh132.JPG)
Here is a link to the tool section on the Robo explaining how I use CNC machines for modeling. https://modelersforum.com/index.php?topic=6810.0
Bernd
Bernd,
That is a serious amount of work required to make those windows :o . They turned out looking great. I think I would have came up with an alternate method for the windows. Can't wait to see what you will be making with the CNC machine.
Quote from: elwoodblues on January 24, 2025, 05:11:53 PMBernd,
That is a serious amount of work required to make those windows :o . They turned out looking great. I think I would have came up with an alternate method for the windows. Can't wait to see what you will be making with the CNC machine.
Yes it was, but it was a onetime thing. Now that the R&D work is done it'll be easier next time. I would have loved to find angle stock to make the windows, but none is available in the size that would be needed, plus it would have been very delicate.
I have quite a bit of material on using the CNC machines that I'll post in the tool section over time.
Bernd
Continuing on with the build.
Here's a picture of all twelve windows soldered up. 20 pieces per window times 12 windows is 240 pieces. 38 solder joints on each window times 12 is 456 solder joints. That wouldn't have been possible without the jig to hold the wires and able to solder them in one heat. Next, they'll need a bit of clean up, then paint and the glass will need to be installed.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh133.JPG)
After cleaning up the windows from some of the access solder I washed them in a naphtha bath to get the rosin off. They are now ready for the first coat, maybe only one, of black paint. Got a rattle can of "Chalkboard Black" along with a light gray primer and a can of "Chalky grey", whatever that is, for the inside of the engine house. I just had to wait for a bit of warmer weather to do the painting.
In the meantime I was trying to figure out how to mount the roof. Problem is I already painted all the assembled parts. The roof would need to be soldered on too. But since I already painted it that was out of the question right then. So, I put the thinking cap on and came up with the idea of making it removeable. Ya right. This thing wiggles around like a limp piece of spaghetti. What to do. Maybe a wooden former. Tried those. It was tough trying to line everything up. Came up with the idea of using hot glue to temporarily hold the roof on so I can solder some brass square tubing to the roof to keep its shape. Kind of like rafters for wooden kits.
Here's a couple of shots for that process. I finally found the correct method to get everything lined up. BTW, those are the two wooden formers I made for getting the roof together at the proper angle.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh135.JPG)
And of course, you always have to mount something backwards or upside down. Notice that the roof is on upside down?
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh134.JPG)
Ah, that's better.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh136.JPG)
I had to get more square tubing to do the so-called rafters. Discovered I didn't have enough. A trip to the hobby shop solved that.
I had finally figured out how I can get the roof together and make it removable. I hot glued the metal pieces together and then made four cross braces out of 1/8" square tubing to hold the bottom of the roof together. On the top I added the copula roof. It's just tack soldered for now. Plus, the windows got their final color. What a miss adventure that was.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh137.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh138.JPG)
Here it is with the windows temporarily installed by friction fit.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh139.JPG)
Noon sunlight on a shiny roof doesn't make for good side picture.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh140.JPG)
So I pop up the flash for a much brighter view of the side.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh141.JPG)
Getting close to the finish line. The long roof vent that goes the full length of the copula needs to be painted and installed. I'm also repainted the sides with a lighter primer and then an acrylic green. The inside will be painted a slate color. The window trim frame will be red and the windows black. At that time, I didn't think I'd be making any doors. I still have to install the glass in the windows. I'll make that a separate post in the tool section with a link from this thread.
I repainted the outside with Rust-Oleum Professional primer light gray. The inside got a shot of Krylon "slate" chalky finish. I like the looks of this much better.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh142.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh143.JPG)
I had also been working on the windows. After spraying them black and trying a method of using Tymia green translucent paint and Krystal Klear mixed, I had tried a couple of windows. They didn't turn out to good. Possibly to large of an opening. I didn't do any experimenting to see if I could do better. I just wanted to get this project done. So, I stripped all the paint from the windows. They now needed to be repainted. After I stripped them, I wondered how I was going to install clear styrene. My CNC router table to the rescue. Since I had built the windows in a milled jig that kept the spacing of each square in a tolerance of not more than .003" in width and height variation. I came up with the idea of making individual glass panes for each opening. Now at 16 panes per large window and 12 windows that adds up to 192 pieces. [eek] Now I'll post the procedure on how I used the ROBO CNC to make the window glass.
This link will take you to how the window frames were made. https://modelersforum.com/index.php?topic=6810.msg178611;topicseen#new
Bernd
Continuing on.
After spraying the frames black and I tried using Tymia green translucent paint and Krystal Klear mixed, I had tried a couple of windows. They didn't turn out to good. Possibly to large of an opening. I didn't do an experimenting to see if I could do better. I just want to get this project done. So, I stripped all the paint from the windows. They now need to be repainted. After I stripped them, I wondered how I was going to install clear styrene. My CNC router table to the rescue. Since I had built the windows in a milled jig that made the spacing of each square not more than .003" in width and height variation. I came up with the idea of making individual glass panes for each opening. Now at 16 panes per large window and 12 windows that adds up to 192 pieces. :o
I again used my router to do that, but I had modified it to use a Cricut scrap cutter knife. I'll explain that in the ROBO thread later.
So I fired up the CAD program and drew up 192 individual panes.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/windowglass.jpg)
The file was exported as DXF into my CAM (CamBam) program for the G-codes.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/windowglassA.PNG)
Once everything was set it was transferred to the cutting software on the CNC router.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/windowglassB.png)
And here's the result after 8 minuets of run time. Note: I'm using a different method in cutting the clear plastic. I'm using a knife instead of a milling cutter.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh144.JPG)
I didn't cut all the way through. The material is .015" thick. I set the cut depth to .010" and then finished cutting the 192 sections out with a sharp Exacto knife. Once the larger sides were cut loose from the all the little squares it was easy to just bend and snap of the pieces off.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh145.JPG)
That is one of the advantages to using equipment like this, you can do lots of parts accurately and fit them together with very little work in, what do the British like to call it, fettling?
Almost perfect fit without having to trim any of the edges. I little bit of canopy glue or Krystal Klear to glue in the windows and your all set.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh146.JPG)
While I was waiting to come up with an idea to mount the clear plastic in the individual pains I painted the beams that go inside the building.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh147.JPG)
The critters wanted to get into the picture.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh148.JPG)
Closer look at both sides frames.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh149.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh150.JPG)
This is what I used. It can be found on Amazon.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers//Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh151.JPG)
That'll do for now. More to come.
Bernd
Going to see if I can wrap this project up in this last post on the Suydam Engine House.
The engine house was painted a dark green. Looks more like black under the lighting. The windows have been painted and are ready to have the glass panes installed.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh152.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh153.JPG)
I then got to work on those windows. Only 192 panes to install. Talk about a real "pane".
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh154.JPG)
I had finally gotten my window making technique down to good enough. Not totally satisfied with how they came out, but it'll have to do in order to get this finished and move back to my crusher building.
Okay, here's all the material and equipment. I'm using canopy glue to glue the windows in.
Frist window on the left below was with Krystal Klear and Tymia clear green for a couple of windows and the rest was just plain Krystal Klear. The middle window was done without the jig on the right. I hadn't figure on the thickness of the frames being .032" thick and clear window material being .015" thick. I needed to shim the window so it would be in the middle of the opening. So that first attempt at doing the window was a bit frustrating. The third window was expectable. It was assembled using the jig on the right. The cross bar holds the window in place while "trying" to get the glass installed.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh155.JPG)
These are the 192 pieces for the window glass. They were scored on the ROBO CNC machine.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh156.JPG)
First I wanted to try another modelers method of doing windows using Kystal Klear and Timia clear green. I experimented on the first window I had soldered together without a jig. I think he was right in that trying to fill a large space might not work. It didn't work to well.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh157.JPG)
The first window done using the jig. Before I even got through installing all the glass I knew this wasn't working well. I'll explain in a minute the what and why. Also I discovered that the machine didn't cut all the glass to the same size. I think the problem here was as each cut was made the plastic flexed from the strain release with each cut. I need to come up with a method of a holding down the material on the router so this won't happen.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh158.JPG)
This window was done in the jig I made. It kept the glass from falling all the way through. Still have a problem with the glass fitting in fully of each pane. I should have made them larger and filed each one to fit better. On the next project perhaps.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh159.JPG)
This is the jig for doing 8 windows while the frame is clamped in the jig.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh160.JPG)
Here' how the jig works. Below is a cross section of one of the panes. The frame's wire thickness is .032" and the clear acetate is .015" thick. When I tried to glue in the glass on the first window the glass fell all the way through. By adding .010" shims for the glass to sit on helped hold the glass somewhat in the middle to glue it.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/windowglassC.jpg)
I'll have 11 more windows to do or 176 glass panes to install. Hope I don't break one.
Here's what the engine house looks like with at least two windows install and the louvers on the cupola installed.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh161.JPG)
An end view showing a problem that popped up after I installed the louvers. Somehow it spread the roof out. Hard to understand that it did that with the cross brace I soldered in to hold the roof at the proper angle. I'll need to cut the brace to take chunk out of it, so the roof sits on the side wall properly. You can see all the way through on the right front corner of the building. Plus, I've got five holes to fill on the roof. The four small holes were for holding the roof to a proper angle on a piece of wood for soldering the sort of "roof rafters". Which didn't work. The other hole is where the chimney pipe is supposed to come out. I figure there is no room for a boiler section in this engine house. It should be a separate building.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh162.JPG)
It's been quite an eye opener in trying to improve the looks of this kit. Didn't realize at the beginning how much work would be involved, which included buying a new CNC machine and learning how to run that to make parts.
I got finally got all 194 windows glued in. It's not the prettiest thing I've ever built, but then I went off into the weeds trying to modify it. I did learn a lot and I have two more kits like this to build one of these days. Here all the windows with their glass installed. Still need to do the arched part.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh163.JPG)
Gluing in the windows. You can on the left where I added the green glass to the arch part of the window.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh164.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh165.JPG)
The completed engine house.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh166.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh167.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh168.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh169.JPG)
So that finally wraps this project up.
I have two more of these same kits to assemble. My thought on the two kits is to combine them with interior framing to make a four-stall engine house. I learned a lot building this and have some better ideas to apply to the next kit bash.
Here's my thought on building a four stall engine house one of these days.
My idea is to use the two front and rear walls plus a right side and left side wall to make the four-stall engine house as shown in the picture below. What I'll be searching for is what a building like this looks like on the inside as far as structural beams and how the corrugated sheeting is attached. This is to make it look more plausible. I'm looking at structural steel beams. I may need to manufacture them as I'm sure it would be hard to fine prototypical sizes in HO. This project will be a "work on project" when I get bored with some of my other modeling projects and will take some time to complete. I'm actually looking at making a small diorama to set it on.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/ehtwo-1.JPG)
In September of 2022 it went with my friend Dan to a train show to be sold. Dan is a vendor and sells at shows, and I was interested to see if somebody would buy it. It wasn't sold. Dan is keeping it for his railroad he's building. I never asked what the price tag he put on it and I didn't care. It probably didn't sell because there were no doors made for it or he had it priced too high. I had wanted to make doors that opened and closed but didn't have the time to do that. Perhaps on the next one.
So that ends this adventure in metal kit building.
Bernd
This has been the Manhattan Project of engine-house builds.
I know the two stall engine house has been a long time coming. Looks like all your hard work has paid off. Nice job my friend
John
Great work on a very interesting different type of kit.
Jeff
Hmmm.... I can see this corrugated sheeting over wood framing, or corrugated sheeting over a steel frame.
dave
Quote from: Mr. Critter on January 26, 2025, 03:16:18 PMThis has been the Manhattan Project of engine-house builds.
Yes it was. Also a great learning experience for me in making ideas work. Thanks for following along.
Bernd
Quote from: westtexjohn on January 26, 2025, 03:18:14 PMI know the two stall engine house has been a long time coming. Looks like all your hard work has paid off. Nice job my friend
John
Thanks John. Much appreciated.
Bernd
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on January 26, 2025, 05:24:17 PMGreat work on a very interesting different type of kit.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff. Much appreciated.
Bernd
Quote from: deemery on January 26, 2025, 07:17:00 PMHmmm.... I can see this corrugated sheeting over wood framing, or corrugated sheeting over a steel frame.
dave
That's what I have been researching for the four stall Suydam Engine House. I've got some ideas already.
Bernd
Thanks for a wonderful build thread Bernd, with a fantastic result.
Stunning work Bernd. Certainly not something I'd take on.
But you have always liked working in metal. The windows are great.
Thanks Janbouli and Robert, much appreciated for the kind words.
To me metal is just a different medium to work with. You can cut it apart, shape it and put it back together again just like wood or styrene only using different type of tools.
More projects to post down the road.
Bernd
Bernd,
After re-reading your entire thread this morning, I have some thoughts regarding this type of modeling.
I will never build in metal, I probably will never buy a CNC machine, or a metal lathe, or a Suydam kit.
I did learn several tips that I can adapt to my way of modeling using other materials and the sequences
involved regarding "what to do and when" steps.
But, Your work is over the top and that engine house is a keeper. If by chance someone does end up with
this other than Dan, it will definitely be a foreground model!
Can't wait to see more of your expert projects.
Rich
Quote from: Pennman on February 01, 2025, 12:12:32 PMBernd,
After re-reading your entire thread this morning, I have some thoughts regarding this type of modeling.
I will never build in metal, I probably will never buy a CNC machine, or a metal lathe, or a Suydam kit.
I did learn several tips that I can adapt to my way of modeling using other materials and the sequences
involved regarding "what to do and when" steps.
But, Your work is over the top and that engine house is a keeper. If by chance someone does end up with
this other than Dan, it will definitely be a foreground model!
Can't wait to see more of your expert projects.
Rich
Rich,
Thank you for the kind words, they are much appreciated.
I realize that not many modelers will take the same route I am taking in my modeling. I'm comfortable of working with metal, plastics, wood, resins and plaster. The machines are an extension of my working career in the machine tool industry. This taught me the use of machines to make parts for my model building. If they never would have made tabletop CNC machines, I probably be only working with one or two mediums in building models. I see it has served one of my purposes of the possibility of passing along a tip or two. That's one of the great things about sharing on a forum such as this that you can pick up a tip or two from a posting such as mine. I always pick up something from your posts on building a wooden kit or one of your fabulous scratch builds.
I'll be posting here more now since we've lost the other place.
Bernd
Bernd.
I agree with Rich. You are very fortunate in that you have the knowledge, ability and equipment to work in metal. That is something I've never done other than working with brass and brass locos.
I'm most comfortable with wood, which is my go to for builds.
I'm enjoying this thread and am amazed with how you progress through each step. I've also soldered many brass parts but your plate on the gas burned to melt the solder was wonderful. I never would have thought of that.
Anyway, fantastic thread and even more fantastic modeling sir.
Tom
Amazing Bernd..... 8)
Howdy Bernd, The engine house is simply amazing. I've never seen a Suydam kit done better. Congratulations. Have fun, mike
Quote from: ACL1504 on February 02, 2025, 08:06:41 AMBernd.
I agree with Rich. You are very fortunate in that you have the knowledge, ability and equipment to work in metal. That is something I've never done other than working with brass and brass locos.
I'm most comfortable with wood, which is my go to for builds.
I'm enjoying this thread and am amazed with how you progress through each step. I've also soldered many brass parts but your plate on the gas burned to melt the solder was wonderful. I never would have thought of that.
Anyway, fantastic thread and even more fantastic modeling sir.
Tom
Thank you very much Tom. Much appreciated. More to come as I'm trying to get my first layout built.
I've followed your here when I had first signed on and discovered your posts. I've always been amazed at your modeling prowess building your railroad. I've gained some insights in building a layout and techniques from you.
I'll be popping in once in while to watch your progress.
Bernd
Quote from: friscomike on February 02, 2025, 11:09:20 AMHowdy Bernd, The engine house is simply amazing. I've never seen a Suydam kit done better. Congratulations. Have fun, mike
Thank for the kind words. Much appreciated.
Bernd
Those are really square. Amazing work!
Quote from: Philip on February 02, 2025, 07:55:16 PMThose are really square. Amazing work!
Which ones? The wood frame? Thanks for the nice words.
Bernd
Truly outstanding craftsmanship in this build.
Quote from: Bernd on February 02, 2025, 11:17:07 AMQuote from: ACL1504 on February 02, 2025, 08:06:41 AMBernd.
I agree with Rich. You are very fortunate in that you have the knowledge, ability and equipment to work in metal. That is something I've never done other than working with brass and brass locos.
I'm most comfortable with wood, which is my go to for builds.
I'm enjoying this thread and am amazed with how you progress through each step. I've also soldered many brass parts but your plate on the gas burned to melt the solder was wonderful. I never would have thought of that.
Anyway, fantastic thread and even more fantastic modeling sir.
Tom
Thank you very much Tom. Much appreciated. More to come as I'm trying to get my first layout built.
I've followed your here when I had first signed on and discovered your posts. I've always been amazed at your modeling prowess building your railroad. I've gained some insights in building a layout and techniques from you.
I'll be popping in once in while to watch your progress.
Bernd
Bernd,
Thank you for the kind and very generous compliment. I need to get back to posting more updates on the A&S RR.
Tom
Quote from: PRR Modeler on February 03, 2025, 11:48:40 AMTruly outstanding craftsmanship in this build.
Thank you, Curt.
QuoteBernd,
Thank you for the kind and very generous compliment. I need to get back to posting more updates on the A&S RR.
Tom
You're welcome. The biggest one that amazed me was the "Ovilix". ;D And how you did your two-tier layout. Many good tips there.
Bernd
The jig that hold the brass.
Bernd,
I read somewhere in one of your threads that you plan on making steel I-beams for a build, just not sure if this build is the one. Would you be making a mold to pour them in resin? Just a thought. Carry on, nice work!
Rich
Quote from: Pennman on February 03, 2025, 10:22:34 PMBernd,
I read somewhere in one of your threads that you plan on making steel I-beams for a build, just not sure if this build is the one. Would you be making a mold to pour them in resin? Just a thought. Carry on, nice work!
Rich
Rich,
Ya, back on page 4 post 51. I show the beginnings of a four stall Suydam engine house. Instead of using a wooden frame I was think of using "steel beams" (milled brass to HO scale specs) for the buildings inner structure. Kind of like the Navada Narrow Gauge engine house shown below.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/1080x529.png)
From what I can see through the windows this structure uses metal beams with the corrugated siding attached to it. I've been looking for specs on what size steel beams are used to build the frame. Plus, how they would be laid out to hold up the building. Haven't found anything yet.
Bernd