I see it's been a little over four years since somebody got a new tool. Well at times I make my own since I spent over 30 years in the machine tool industry working for a major manufacturer of gear cutting machines I've got some idea about making tooling for a job. So here goes on a tool I've spent some time researching.
After many months of false starts and procrastination, I finally have something I can make corrugated foil with. It still needs some tweaking but it gives decent corrugated sheets.
Comparison between Campbells and mine. Top one is Campbell's. The bottom is from the corrugator.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0001.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0002.JPG)
Closer look at the tool.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0003.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0005.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0006.JPG)
Those are gears. They come as a long rod, and you cut off the width of gear you need. I used the 48 tooth one for the corrugator.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Gearing/gearstock.JPG)
I got the idea from this.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/idea.png)
Now I'll be able to finish the stone crusher for my quarry line.
Bernd
Bernd, as a kit maker this is endlessly interesting.
I tried .among my own a few years ago with 3D printing, but failed the task.
Those gears are giving some really excellent results! If you have access to a horizontal mill and dividing head, the options are limitless. You could make tooling for standing seam roofing too then.
I'd love to acquire one from you if you could make another! Great work
Quote from: Keep It Rusty on January 16, 2025, 02:13:47 AMBernd, as a kit maker this is endlessly interesting.
I tried .among my own a few years ago with 3D printing, but failed the task.
Those gears are giving some really excellent results! If you have access to a horizontal mill and dividing head, the options are limitless. You could make tooling for standing seam roofing too then.
I'd love to acquire one from you if you could make another! Great work
I've been looking for a way to make corrugated panels for several years. I watched all the videos of how 1:1 corrugated panels are made. I came away with the knowledge that as you add the corrugations the metal gets pulled together.
Here's a video of a company building a corrugating line. Note at the start at the 4 minute mark how the forming rollers increase as the sheet gets rolled.
Building a machine like in the video for doing model size sheets would be a monumental task. I tried a rolling technique. It was frustrating since I didn't understand how the metal was pulled together to form the final sheet until I saw this video.
Plus that last photo gave me the idea of how to make one for model builds.
P.M sent
Bernd
Your stuff blows Campbell's clean out of the water. Thank you for posting this!
Follow-up question: What did you use for raw stock? Plain old aluminium foil from the foodstore, cut into strips?
Quote from: Mr. Critter on January 16, 2025, 06:46:33 PMFollow-up question: What did you use for raw stock? Plain old aluminium foil from the foodstore, cut into strips?
I used Raynolds Heavy Duty aluminum foil for testing. I'm looking at using the aluminum from those baking pans that you do large meat in such as turkeys and roast beef.
Bernd
Here's a bit more on the construction of this tool.
You can see the shim stock stuck between the surfaces of the top piece and sides. This gives the gear set some room when the foil gets pulled between the teeth of the gears. A sort of floating gear set.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0007.JPG)
In this next picture you see the arrow pointing to a block of brass that gives the gear some movement upwards but keeps it from hitting bottom of the top part. (red oblong box)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0008.JPG)
This picture gives you a view of all parts that are inside. Those are .015" thick brass washers I made on the CNC mill.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0009.JPG)
This shows the bottom bearing sitting on the raise block. This keeps the teeth of the gear from rubbing on the bottom. The green rectangle will be a shim to separate the two gears to give proper clearance for the foil to be properly embossed. This is one of the tweaks I'll need to do.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0010.JPG)
The two gears have stubs machined on the ends for bearings plus the brass washers.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0011.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0012.JPG)
This is how the .015" thick washers were made. I ACC'ed a piece of .015" thick brass shim stock to a piece MDF. Took 3 .010" deep cuts with a 1/16" dia. carbide end mill.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0013.JPG)
Here's some info on corrugated sheet steel.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corrinfo.png)
I think that should answer any more questions. If have any ask.
Bernd
Bearings. My oath. The Pepe Tools version probably isn't even bushed!
Wow.
Fantastic insight. Makes me want to crack out my Myford lathe! Great work Bernd. Very interested in keeping up to date with your progress.
All I can say is I am impressed beyond belief. Keep those photos coming. Wow.
Jim
Thank you very much gentlemen. I appreciate your enthusiasm on this project. I do engineering changes on the fly and then draw up the drawings. I'm now in the tweaking stage on this project.
Yes bearings. I've also been looking into using bearings in powered equipment. Friction bearings are fine but ball bearings are better and won't need lubing in the long run.
Bernd
Fellow modelers, this man learned the basics from his machinist Father, back when sons actually worked with their Dads to learn a trade. Bernd has followed in his Dad's footsteps throughout his life and his accomplishments are many. He's not happy unless the final product gets tweaked to perfection. You might be in for more treats from this super modeler.
Rich
Rich,
You do realize that my head now has gotten so big it won't fit through the door. :-[ :)
I hope that in sharing this information with the group that somebody might just be encouraged to try something of this nature. I'm here to help answer those questions if I can or will find information to answer that question.
Rich, it's the same with you. I'm always impressed with your talent of looking at a picture of a building and then build it, plus your aptitude for proportion. Something I sorely lack.
Bernd
After some tweaking, I got it work much better for now. It's not 100% yet and may not quite get there.
I went to the $Dollar Store and bought some aluminum pans. Not quite $10 later this what I have.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0014.JPG)
Even got one with a blue color.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0015.JPG)
I had some rollers that are polished and mirror smooth. Don't remember where they came from. I used those to smooth out the lumps in the pan. First, I used a rubber mallet to knock down the larger bumps. Another possible tool coming up using those rollers to flatten aluminum pans stock? Maybe. maybe not.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0016.JPG)
Here's close up side view of the corrugated aluminum.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0017.JPG)
I think the blue looks pretty neat. Wish they would have had other colors.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0018.JPG)
I don't think the brass gears will last long. I guess I'll see how long they will last. I'll be making them out of steel and probably case harden them for better ware, but that remains to be seen. Probably would be easier to buy another gear rod and probably be cheaper and faster.
So now I can get back to my quarry stone crusher building that's been sitting idyl for the last few months.
Bernd
Excellent work Bernd, thanks for sharing, excellent work. 8)
I have been using corrugated and standing seam metal, asphalt shingle and cedar shingle and shake roofing material on most of the kits I build. In the real world, tar paper roofs are not used for any substantial structures that are expected to last more than a few months. Using a color coating material is great, as a coating over the steel, galvanized steel, or aluminum helps the roof to last longer.
Bernd, how thick is your roasting pan material?
How about starting with smooth material like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CRHR4TRX/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AF9CPILHGHOMP&th=1
While it's described as "flashing" if the dimensions are correct it is really shim stock. Hard to see any flashing use for something measuring this small in all three dimensions.
The stated dimensions are 2" by 39.4" by .1mm Unless my math is wrong, (a frequent occurrence) .1mm is .0039 inches, roughly the thickness of many ordinary printer papers.
Thanks Gregory and you're welcome. I like to share things to help others who might need some information on subjects like this.
Bernd
Quote from: Bernd on January 18, 2025, 05:30:52 PMThanks Gregory and you're welcome. I like to share things to help others who might need some information on subjects like this.
Bernd
How thick are your smoothed-out pans? Any thoughts about an 'optimum' thickness? I figure there is a range of values, too thin and the stock tears. Too thick and the corrugations don't form. "And this thickness is Just Right," said Goldilocks...
(My sense is that you'd think about this kind of thing as you experimented with different materials...)
dave
Quote from: IWannaRetire on January 18, 2025, 10:59:46 AMBernd, how thick is your roasting pan material?
How about starting with smooth material like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CRHR4TRX/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=AF9CPILHGHOMP&th=1
While it's described as "flashing" if the dimensions are correct it is really shim stock. Hard to see any flashing use for something measuring this small in all three dimensions.
The stated dimensions are 2" by 39.4" by .1mm Unless my math is wrong, (a frequent occurrence) .1mm is .0039 inches, roughly the thickness of many ordinary printer papers.
Mark, the pan material is .005" (.127mm) thick. A 3-foot by 8-foot sheet in HO would measure .413" by 1.653" (10.5mm X 42mm) The best that would work with that material would be the 50mm x 0.1mm (W*T).
I'll probably be looking around to see what else is available. I wouldn't go over .005 thickness. Anything thicker and it'll probably ruin the gear teeth faster. I did notice some flaking of the aluminum getting caught in the teeth.
Still tweaking the tool.
Bernd
Quote from: deemery on January 18, 2025, 05:57:53 PMQuote from: Bernd on January 18, 2025, 05:30:52 PMThanks Gregory and you're welcome. I like to share things to help others who might need some information on subjects like this.
Bernd
How thick are your smoothed-out pans? Any thoughts about an 'optimum' thickness? I figure there is a range of values, too thin and the stock tears. Too thick and the corrugations don't form. "And this thickness is Just Right," said Goldilocks...
(My sense is that you'd think about this kind of thing as you experimented with different materials...)
dave
Check my post to Mark. I'll be looking around at other options. I used the pan because the Dollar store was just down the road, and I need some material for testing. I'm still in the R&D stage at this point.
Bernd
Quote from: Bernd on January 18, 2025, 06:08:10 PMQuote from: deemery on January 18, 2025, 05:57:53 PMQuote from: Bernd on January 18, 2025, 05:30:52 PMThanks Gregory and you're welcome. I like to share things to help others who might need some information on subjects like this.
Bernd
How thick are your smoothed-out pans? Any thoughts about an 'optimum' thickness? I figure there is a range of values, too thin and the stock tears. Too thick and the corrugations don't form. "And this thickness is Just Right," said Goldilocks...
(My sense is that you'd think about this kind of thing as you experimented with different materials...)
dave
Check my post to Mark. I'll be looking around at other options. I used the pan because the Dollar store was just down the road, and I need some material for testing. I'm still in the R&D stage at this point.
Bernd
Our posts crossed, I think. Thanks!
dave
Dave, yes they did. I saw a warning that somebody was posting to the thread. No problem.
Besides Mark's find on Amazon I did a little search on McMaster-Carr. They have a variety of shim stock. A bit more expensive than on Amazon but you have a greater variety of choice. It's up to the user where he wants to purchase stock from. I've been a customer of McMaster's for quite some time and find them to be fast on delivery and quality products. Another metal source for me is On-Line Metals.
Link to McMaster on shim stock: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/shim-stock/shim-stock-2~/ (https://www.mcmaster.com/products/shim-stock/shim-stock-2~/)
Link to On-Line Metals: https://www.onlinemetals.com/ (https://www.onlinemetals.com/)
Bernd
Ok, after some extensive testing I've added an improvement to the corrugator.
In the picture below you'll notice on the longer piece how it has curves in it. This due to the gears not running parallel. In other words at one point there is backlash in the gearing and about 180° there is a bind. This will cause the foil to curve because one side is crimping the foil more than the other. Note on the blue ones which are shorter that that wasn't the case. I was able to keep a shorter section straight going through the teeth. Not so good with a longer piece because it would stretch out the corrugations and it would not have even depth corrugations in the piece.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0019.JPG)
I came up with a solution. I made some shims that will sit on the upper gear bearings and be pushed down with a spring and plate.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0020.JPG)
First, I milled down a piece of aluminum for the needed thickness and then used my lath set up a saw to saw off the length needed. The two short pieces are sitting on the clamp.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0021.JPG)
Next I needed to make a plate that would press down on the plunger and springs. I ACCed a piece of aluminum on top to the top that holds the upper portion together.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0022.JPG)
This allowed me to, what is known as match drilling, where the plungers would come through. Note the plungers are already made with the springs installed.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0023.JPG)
The top plunger alignment plate ready to be installed.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0024.JPG)
Plungers in place and springs in place.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0025.JPG)
All ready to crank out some corrugated aluminum.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0026.JPG)
I'll post more on the corrugator's use when I write up the stone crusher for my quarry line.
Bernd
Update on the corrugator.
I had ordered some aluminum foil from McMaster Carr in four thicknesses. It comes all rolled up in nice little boxes.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0027.JPG)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0028.JPG)
I cut a strip 6" long, the width of the roll, and an HO scale 8' (1.100") wide strip.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0029.JPG)
Ran each strip through the corrugator. Notice on the .005" and .003" thick strips that they curved. (green arrows)
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0030.JPG)
This shows that one side of one (gear) roller is not parallel with the other (gear) roller. What this does is squeeze one side more than the other causing the foil to be "crinkled" more on one side than the other. The deforming causes it to curve due to the metal being pulled together more than the other side. This shows how metal can be curved by how much more you deform one side more than the other.
I took the corrugator apart and lightly held the gears in full mesh with a set of tool makes clamps and checked with gauge blocks (jo-blocks) the distance between the ball bearings.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0032.JPG)
The right side sized to .125" between the bearings and the left side sized to .128". A .003" difference causing the foil to curve. More inspection is warranted to see what the cause is for such a difference between the bearings. I might need to make new rollers and hold the diameter of stub axel where the bearing sits to a tighter tolerance.
(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/corrugator/corrugator2/corr_0031.JPG)
More inspection to be done to determine what the heck went wrong and if new rollers need to be made.
That's it for now. back to having fun.
Bernd
Just wondering if it would be an advantage to use spring pressing downward on both sides of the upper roller to adjust the roller pressure for varying thicknesses of stock? Can't say I took notice of that if that is what you did.
One of the other Dave's
Interesting to see the results of the alignment error. And thanks for buying 4 different material thicknesses to try. We learn from these experiments!
dave
Self-imposed quality control. As a modeller and former QC inspector both, I love this.
Quote from: Dave Buchholz on February 02, 2025, 04:01:23 PMJust wondering if it would be an advantage to use spring pressing downward on both sides of the upper roller to adjust the roller pressure for varying thicknesses of stock? Can't say I took notice of that if that is what you did.
One of the other Dave's
If you look through post #22 above you'll see the springs I used and how they were implemented.
Bernd
Quote from: deemery on February 02, 2025, 04:28:33 PMInteresting to see the results of the alignment error. And thanks for buying 4 different material thicknesses to try. We learn from these experiments!
dave
You're welcome Dave. Besides aluminum McMaster Carr also carries brass, copper, nickel, bronze, titanium, plastic, stainless steel and steel. I've been a very satisfied customer with them for many years. Their prices may be higher than Amazon but there product is of higher quality. I'll pay for quality before buying cheap.
Bernd
Quote from: Mr. Critter on February 02, 2025, 05:40:57 PMSelf-imposed quality control. As a modeller and former QC inspector both, I love this.
Yes, that was one of my jobs at "The Gleason Works", a gear machine manufacturing company. I started work there as a 2-year apprentice and retired medically a little over 30 years later. My second hobby is "home-shop machining".
Bernd
This is perfection at it's finest from the Inspector General in corrugated affairs!
I'm liking how you are handling this. Great work.
Rich