The Modeler's Forum

I got a partially assembled Ambroid/Northeastern Scale Lumber (B&M prototype) wood open platform coach kit on eBay. This thread will detail some of the challenges in doing this classic kit. 

The box has some pre-cut sides, pre-cut floor pieces, milled roof, some cast parts and a lot of sticks:
IMG_0563.jpg
It seems this box had parts of 2 kits, there are 2 sets of end platform castings and a couple other extra parts.  The most interesting thing is the milled car side subwalls.  This has the belt rail molding milled into it.  

Here's a test fit of the platform castings after those are cleaned up and the two part floors are glued together:
IMG_0559.jpg

The instructions are -minimal-, but Bob Parrish has some good instructions on building similar cars on the LaBelle Models website https://www.labellemodels.com/hints-pointers-c-91.html 

The biggest challenge is shaping the roof. 

dave

While waiting for some other parts (particularly the trucks from LaBelle, which will set the bolster location on the car undercarriage), I started on the sides.  Prototype coaches had a lavatory on each side, with round, oval or square (stained glass) windows.  I thought about how to do this, and decided I could draw ovals on my computer.  I measured the size of the external wall for the lavatory compartment, and drew 2 ovals, offset by about .020.  The smaller oval in the subwall will look like framing, at least that's the plan.  Then I glued the templates to the back side of both subwalls and the scribed siding car sheathing.
IMG_0560.jpg
Then I carefully cut along the ovals, starting with an X-Acto stencil knife, and finishing with regular #11 blades.  Here's the result.  I didn't cut out the two wall pieces, I'll do that after I measure and locate the fascia board.  But at least this shows the result of the ovals.  On this, you can see the milled-in belt rail underneath the windows.  The car siding (top and bottom) aligns against the belt rail.
IMG_0561.jpg
I'm still pondering doing framing for the outer wall, to clean up that oval.  (I'll print that on paper and glue over the wall.)

dave

Dave a fret saw would have been ideal for cutting out that window.

(https://www.kingstonemodelworks.com/Modelers/Suydam%20Enginehouse/eh45.JPG)

A fret saw is designed for intricate and detailed cuts, making it ideal for fine woodworking and delicate projects, while a coping saw is better suited for cutting curves and shapes in thicker materials. The main difference lies in their blade types and the precision they offer, with fret saws having thinner, more delicate blades compared to the coarser blades of coping saws.

And you can cut metal with the metal cutting blades. Plastic with the wood cutting blades and of course wood itself.

Bernd

Bernd, I'm not sure how well that would work on the 1/32 wood pieces (scribed siding and solid piece).  If I do another car, I'll try that.  But I'd be afraid that the saw might snag the wood.  I'd have to find a very fine tooth blade, I think, to prevent tear-out.

dave

Quote from: deemery on February 03, 2025, 05:49:57 PMBernd, I'm not sure how well that would work on the 1/32 wood pieces (scribed siding and solid piece).  If I do another car, I'll try that.  But I'd be afraid that the saw might snag the wood.  I'd have to find a very fine tooth blade, I think, to prevent tear-out.

dave

Dave,

They use fret saws in marquetry. They saw out wood thinner than what you cut out.

Here's a good explanation on how it's done.

https://www.americanmarquetrysociety.com/pdf/getting_started.pdf (https://www.americanmarquetrysociety.com/pdf/getting_started.pdf)

Bernd

I built a Labelle passenger kit a number of years ago and I too was afraid of the roof.  It turned out it wasn't all that difficult.  Labelle provided templates for the cut which helped a lot. 

I'll be following along on this project.

George

Quote from: Bernd on February 03, 2025, 06:36:54 PM

Quote from: deemery on February 03, 2025, 05:49:57 PMBernd, I'm not sure how well that would work on the 1/32 wood pieces (scribed siding and solid piece).  If I do another car, I'll try that.  But I'd be afraid that the saw might snag the wood.  I'd have to find a very fine tooth blade, I think, to prevent tear-out.

dave

Dave,

They use fret saws in marquetry. They saw out wood thinner than what you cut out.

Here's a good explanation on how it's done.

https://www.americanmarquetrysociety.com/pdf/getting_started.pdf (https://www.americanmarquetrysociety.com/pdf/getting_started.pdf)

Bernd

Yeah, what works for marquetry would work here!

dave

Dave, that looks like a challenging kit but I think you're up to the task.
Should turn out to be a very nice model.

Dave,

The roof is easier than it may seem.  Make a template from, say, 0.040 styrene and use it to help shape the end,  Saw wide and then move down to the template with a rasp and files.  Best wishes!

Pete
in Michigan

I've been reviewing Bob Parrish's notes from here:  https://www.labellemodels.com/hints-pointers-c-91.html  LOTS of hints there, not just for building wood passenger cars, but for building wood kits in general.

dave

I wonder if these would work?

Oval wins (https://www.labellemodels.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=oval)

Wow-Wee........and thus the term "Craftsman Kit" was coined.

Hang in there buddy......I have faith in you.

John

Quote from: Philip on February 03, 2025, 08:44:15 PMI wonder if these would work?

Oval wins (https://www.labellemodels.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=oval)

I have some on order, but I went ahead and did the cut-outs too.  

dave

Howdy Dave, 

That kit promises to be a lot of fun to build.  We take a lot of things for granted these days, but that old kit will make you appreciate them, e.g., rounding the roof ends.  I'm sure you will do a masterful job on the build.  

Have fun, 
mike

Great work Dave, I started one of those kits back in the 70's and still not finished - they are tough..... 8)

 8) I didn't realize they had all those nice details. Great website!

Here's the one I finished.  IIRC I cut the oval with a hobby knife and filed the shape smooth.  It also shows how I dealt with a roof warp while keeping it removable in case I wanted to add an interior later.  Screw was 4-40, nut epoxied in place. A screw/nut at each end, opposite the toilet block.

pa160004_v1.jpg

I'm using Bob Parrish's approach to assemble the long scribed siding strips:  https://www.labellemodels.com/manuals/Scribed%20Siding.pdf
IMG_0564.jpg

IMG_0565.jpg
I'll go back and glue the pairs together tomorrow, after the glue dries overnight tonight. 

Also, I put a light coat of sanding sealer over the sub-sides.  Since this is old wood, I'm sure this will help the wood take paint.  The second photo shows how I'm weighting the sides, leaving the gaps for the belt rail sticking up, while the sealer dries.
IMG_0566.jpg

IMG_0567.jpg

Same thing for the car sub-sides, I'll probably spraypaint the red trim color.  (Car sides will be yellow oxide with red trim.)

dave

I sprayed the subwall the trim color (Vallejo Model Air Fire Engine Red).  You can see a mock-up of the wood pieces that will go on top of that, which will be painted the car body color (Yellow Oxide).
IMG_0568.jpg

I'm matching this car, which is a resin Silver Crash Colorado Midland prototype car.
IMG_0569.jpg

I assembled the two sets of scribed wood car siding that go beneath the belt rail.  Tomorrow I'll untape those, check them out, and sand to fit.  

dave

Dave it looks great so far.

Jerry

Looking good Dave. I've got several Labella kits. One is of the Hall Scott motor car. Even have the spring drive trucks and motor kit. Going to have dig those out someday.

Bernd

 :o What an interesting, complex, to me, project! 

Besides painting the sub-sides, I put sanding sealer on the molding that goes between the windows (that will be painted the car color), the side pieces with the oval cut-outs, and the fascia boards.  The latter gets painted the trim color.  I also drilled the railing holes in the 2 end castings.  Those are now soaking in a weak vinegar solution, to etch a bit before I paint them.  

Tomorrow I should be able to work on the car scribed siding pieces, sanding, test-fitting, and painting those.  

dave

Howdy Dave,

The coach is progressing well.  What type of sanding sealer did you use?  Did it raise the grain? 

Have fun,
mike

Quote from: friscomike on February 06, 2025, 07:20:05 AMHowdy Dave,

The coach is progressing well.  What type of sanding sealer did you use?  Did it raise the grain?

Have fun,
mike

I'm using some stuff from Deluxe Materials.  No real impact on the grain that I could see.  I'm working on the fascia board, I want that to be smooth to accept decals well.

dave

Today was mostly detail painting of trim pieces, etc, before assembly.  So nothing to show, but still forward motion.  I may need to do some more work to get the fascia boards as smooth as I want, one still shows some grain.  

dave

Perhaps use thick ACC as a sealant?  I seem to recall that it did a fair job of filling grain on a plank I inadvertently got some on, back when I still had hair.

Well...  I assembled the scribed siding that runs the length of the car sides, by gluing together the little strips provided in the kit.  The problem is that some of the siding wood is darker, and I couldn't change that with thin coats of paint:
IMG_0576.jpg
I had three choices:  (1) prime and repaint, which runs the risk of filling in the scribing.  (2) cut new side pieces from NESL wood (1/32 thick, 1/16 scribe spacing).  (3) cut new side pieces from styrene.  

I'm going for #2, because I do have 1/32 thick, 1/16 scribed siding.  Of course, I'll get the full set of pieces from a single piece of wood, so mis-matched wood color won't be a problem.  And I have that tool from batch-cutting scribe siding pieces for the B&M car 'kit' project 2 years ago.  Of course, that will set me back a couple of days in the overall project schedule...

dave

It might be worth airbrushing a light coat of the same yellow over the uneven brush painting.  Sometimes I've found that airbrushing wood is less sensitive to differences in pore size, possibly because the paint is less liquid after arriving in the air blast.

Quote from: jbvb on February 11, 2025, 02:17:23 PMIt might be worth airbrushing a light coat of the same yellow over the uneven brush painting.  Sometimes I've found that airbrushing wood is less sensitive to differences in pore size, possibly because the paint is less liquid after arriving in the air blast.

True, but yellow is one of those colors that doesn't have very good coverage in the first place.  If I were digging out the airbrush, I'd prime and then airbrush the finish color.  Easier to cut new wood sides :-)

add:  This is my 'Duplicutter', inspired by the NWSL tool:
IMG_0578.jpg
Here's how it works:  I use the existing wood strip from the kit to align the square.  Then I use the T-Track piece at the top of the tool to set the position of the square to the right distance from the (wood) fence on the left.  The white styrene piece at the bottom provides an offset from the bottom of the cutting pad.  (I learned after using this a bit that the wood would chip out if the bottom of the piece of wood was aligned to the bottom of the cutting pad.)  To use, first I cut a new end on the scribed sheeting. (A shop teacher taught me, "never trust an edge you didn't cut yourself.")  Then I slide the stock up so the end aligns with the fence and the bottom aligns with the styrene offset along the square.  I'm using a scalpel blade to make the cut.  (For maximum precision, take where the knife cuts into consideration when setting the square's distance from the fence.)  Repeat as needed to get a number of pieces all the same width as set by the distance between fence and square. 

You can see the 6 pieces (3 per side) I cut using this on the bottom right, and the 2 pieces from the original kit I used to set up the tool at the top right. 

Next step is to glue 3 pieces together to form a new side (twice, once for each side) using the Parrish technique I described earlier.

dave

Well, the side pieces have been painted (at least a first coat), they're drying under weights now.  So I moved onto the undercarriage.  A couple observations/issues:

1.  Where to put the bolster?  The kit has the bolster about 6' from the car ends (not the end of the steps, but the end of the body.)  The rule-of-thumb is "car wheelbase from car end", which should be about 8'.  

2.  The floor pieces have a bit of a bow to them.  But somewhere I have 1/8" square brass rod, which I can put into the channel of the center sill.  That should pull the bow out of the floor when glued into position.

3.  I'm looking at Kadee 451 pivoting couplers for this car.  Unfortunately, as designed, the pivot is at an inconvenient location.
IMG_0579.jpeg
But I'm thinking I could cut about scale 2' from the end (left side) of the 451 box, and move its pivot point to the left a bit.  I do have to work out coupler height, but that will depend on locating the bolsters and trucks (which are on order from LaBelle.)

dave

Side and fascia started:
IMG_0583.jpeg
I might redo the oval cut-out on the yellow car side.

Now the ends had me puzzled.  I measured and then drew a template.  I turned that into a jig (I'll show that tomorrow) for assembly:
IMG_0584.jpeg

dave

Howdy Dave, the sides and ends look terrific in paint.  Nice work.  I'm looking forward to the assembly photos.  Have fun, mike

Here's the jig to assemble the ends:
IMG_0585.jpeg
The door piece is actually a bit short, so I ended up gluing 1/16x3/32 pieces above the door on the inside, then I filed that down to align with the curve of the roofline.

I also cut a template for the oval window from styrene.  I'll use this to recut and shape the oval pieces on the car sides.

dave

Looks good. But I shouldn't get distracted and work on my own incomplete car.  Promises to keep re: proofreading and next Friday's HUB Division Railfun presentation.

Nice work!

Well, I wasn't happy with the ovals in the wood scribed siding.  So I cut some new pieces from1/16 spacing x 1/32 thick scribed siding.  I glued the templates to that piece of wood, and tried to cut better ovals.  That was hard, and then the wood split.  

So I dug into my stock of Evergreen.  Turns out the Evergreen O Scale 2 1/4" x .030 thick car siding is almost a perfect match for the NESL 1/16 x 1/32 wood siding.  

I double-stick taped the template and started cutting.  i used a combination of X-Acto #11 and X-Acto Stencil knives.  Once I could see the indentations on the back side from carefully following the template, I punched the oval out, and then smoothed it with a round file.  Finally, I lined the new siding piece on the subwall, and sanded top and bottom until it was aligned correctly.
IMG_0586.jpg
Now I need to prime and paint these pieces to match the wood siding underneath.  I hope this is the hardest part of the build (but we'll see how hard it is to shape the wood ends...)

dave

Howdy Dave,

Congratulations on the Evergreen find.  The plastic oval looks just right and probably better than wood.

Have fun,
mike

Progress on two fronts.  First, I redid the oval scribed siding pieces in styrene:
IMG_0586.jpeg
Then I airbrushed them the yellow siding color.  That came out a little too bright yellow, so after consultation with the "artist-in-residence", I applied a very diluted wash of neutral grey.  
IMG_0590.jpeg
That's a much better match.

I also worked on the couplers.  I'm using the Kadee extended swing couplers.  I tried two ways.  First, i cut back the coupler box where swings behind the cast-on coupler pocket.  The problem is that cuts off too much the coupler centering mechanisms (either the whiskers or the traditional Kadee bronze box spring.)  So then I decided to file open the coupler pocket more.  I suspect I'll need to open this even more than it is now, but my needle file set is old and worn out, so I ordered both regular and diamond replacements.
IMG_0591.jpeg

Until the trucks come, I can't really set the bolsters and determine the proper coupler height (offset or regular shanks).  The photo shows the Kadee long shank couplers, I think I can get away with shorter shanks.  

Now someone might ask, "Why not move the coupler box back towards the center of the car?"  I thought about that, the problem would be that positions the coupler mounting point at the edge of the casting.  Better to have a strong mounting point and a thinner/reworked coupler box, I think...

dave

Would it be useful to try my Ambroid coach on your track and turnouts?

Quote from: jbvb on February 17, 2025, 04:16:02 PMWould it be useful to try my Ambroid coach on your track and turnouts?

Sure!  I strongly suspect it won't work on the pony truss, but that's OK.  That's not on the main line.  It would help me figure out how much pivot I need in the couplers

add:  Once my trucks arrive, I can do my undercarriage and check coupler height, motion, clearance, etc

dave

Now the sides are really taking shape...
IMG_0593.jpeg

I need to add the quarter-round at either end, and the sides will be done.  

This car had a steel central sill.  That piece of wood in the kit is pretty chewed up, and I want to put a piece of 1/8 square brass.  So I checked my Evergreen stock.  I have 5/64 channel, which I can glue on either side of the 1/8 brass, to make a central sill.  But first I need to locate the bolsters (so I can cut the sill to fit between them), and that depends on getting and measuring the trucks (which should be arriving any day now.)

dave

I seem to recall something in in the Car Builders Cyclopedia about the kits that converted wood passenger cars to Steel UnderFrame (SUF in B&M rosters).  But I don't find it in an on-line index to Train Shed Cyclopedia.  Maybe I'm thinking of Railway Prototype Cyclopedia.

Either way, there's at least one preserved "wood/SUF" B&M car in NH, but access might be difficult till snow melt.

Quote from: deemery on February 18, 2025, 03:34:44 PMNow the sides are really taking shape...
dave

The plastic pieces blend right in.  8)

Philip

Dave, looks good to me.

Well, after talking to James Van Bokkelen and Bob Parrish, and then looking carefully at the Northeastern Scale Lumber website, I've discovered there are -2- different versions of the kit based on the roof.  The older Ambroid version has a solid milled roof piece.  The newer NESL kits, and the NESL website, have a new roof piece that has the cut-out for the clerestory lights.  One piece is for an 80' car, and the other piece is for my 67' car.  I have ordered 2 of those 67' pieces (and some other stuff) from NESL.  With luck, it'll arrive Saturday, more likely Monday.  

So now I'm waiting on 2 separate orders, one from LaBelle with my trucks and undercarriage pieces, and the other from NESL with the new roofs.   But I did make a little progress today, touching up some paint, and trimming the undercarriage to fit the ends and platform casting.  

dave

Dave,

Which trucks did you order?  Have you made a final decision on the distance the bolsters should be from the end?

Here's what I did with my LaBelle combine:

(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/1660-200225173357.jpeg)

Mike

My box of goodies from LaBelle arrived today, including the 602 trucks.  These are 8' wheelbase, but don't have the obvious brake shoe outriggers that the Central Valley trucks have.  Looks like you have CV trucks on your car.  It appears that the bolster centerline is 8' from the end of the car ends (not the platform ends, and not the end of the undercarriage.)  A quick test-swing shows the 602 trucks should swing just fine with the bolsters at that position.  So tomorrow I'll work on the undercarriage, including the center sill, the bolsters, truck mounting holes in the bolsters & needle beams.   I found some Cal-Scale passenger brake parts (BC-220) and ordered those today.  

My NESL order should arrive soon.  It depends on how efficient UPS is (they're usually pretty good for shipments close to me.)  

Also today I glued the quarter round pieces to the car sides.   

dave

Here's the bolster check:
IMG_0596.jpg
The bolster location is as specified by the kit.  The trucks I'm using is on the left.  That's an old Central Valley truck on the right.  It's the same wheelbase, but wider because of the brake shoes.  That will rub against the end platform steps.

You can also see my replacement center sill, 2 strips of styrene channel glued to 1/8" square solid brass.  This will provide both some weight and rigidity, pulling the slight warp out of the underframe.   I epoxied that part to the undercarriage, the glue is curing while I eat lunch and check the forums.  You can see the wood part that came with the kit at the top of the photo.  My substitute isn't quite as wide, but I don't think that will be noticeable.

Next step:  position the queenposts and work on the truss rods. 

dave

No way that narrower sill will be noticeable, and it will allow for more swing on the trucks for smaller radiuses. 

George 

Checking clearances, etc.  I drew the truss rod shape, using the kit's queenpost casting height, and the apparently standard spacing of 11' (per several Car Builder Dictionaries I consulted.)  Then I experimented with truss rod length to make sure the trucks clear the truss rods:
IMG_0598.jpeg

Also a coupler check.  Looks like I'll need Overset couplers.  I ordered a package of each shank length.  Those won't hold me up, I have other stuff to work on while waiting for them to come in.  I do need to check coupler swing, though.
IMG_0597.jpeg

add:  Well bleep! >:(  When I started to lay out the queenpost and truss rod hole locations, I discovered the bolsters were not equally spaced from the ends.  So I popped off the wood bolsters, and then cut down the center sill on one side so the bolsters were correctly spaced.  (I'd rather add than subtract that distance from the end.)  Then I glued the bolsters back into position.  I'll go back and re-measure the positions for the queenposts and truss rods tomorrow.   I'm still pondering how to do truss rods.  My default method is monofilament, but for this kit maybe bending from metal would be a better choice.  (The kit includes metal rods for the truss rods.)

dave

I hate metal truss rods unless they are pre-bent. I finally used an included monofilament on a Mount Blue car and it was so easy to tighten using CA as a bond.

Nice work Dave!

Looks good. I've only done one car with truss rods, my own NESL open platform kit, so I have nothing to say about truss rods.

Somewhat frustrating day today...  I trimmed the car sides, getting the scribed siding even with the subwalls.  But I got some chipping along the bottom of the scribed siding, despite using a brand new knife blade.  Not terrible, but frustrating.  I primed the trucks, and decided to try 'light red' as a truck color.  But that paint would not go through the airbrush.  I ended up doing a deep clean of the airbrush, and by the time I got that done, my patience was done for the day....

dave

Dave,

 You are doing a nice job on the kit and great job solving the issues along the way.

Tom

NESL vs LaBelle roofs, LaBelle on the left:
IMG_0604.jpeg

Looks like I could get away with the LaBelle roof (and in particular, paying for their roof-rounding service):
IMG_0605.jpeg

Add:  After another hour or two with the airbrush, I finally decided the problem was the paint, not the brush.  Apparently this bottle of Vallejo ModelAir has started to 'cure' so that there are chunks, instead of their usual finely ground pigments.  Since I use a cheap airbrush and we know airbrushes can be finicky, my first inclination was the blame the airbrush.

dave

Just catching up here Dave.  Great build, even if frustrating.
But good to see you are working through the various issues and coming up with solutions.
Those roofs sure are chunky. Wouldn't be that way on a modern kit.

Boy, do I hate airbrush problems.  I feel your pain, Dave.

How long had you have the Model Air?  I haven't bought any new acrylic paints in years; every bottle I'd bought of whatever brand was trendy about a decade ago curdled within a year.  But I may have to if nobody manages to bring Scalecoat back.

Generally, I've had good luck with Vallejo paints for shelf life.  I don't know how old this particular bottle was.

dave

Quote from: Michael Hohn on February 24, 2025, 06:19:33 PMBoy, do I hate airbrush problems.  I feel your pain, Dave.

Same here but they really are nice when working correctly.

Dave, Do you have to shape those roof ends to a duck bill?

Philip

Howdy Dave,

I reluctantly started straining all the paint that went into the airbrush even the Vallejo paint.  It fixed my stoppage problems, although it wasted a lot of paint.  

Good luck with the clerestory work.

Have fun,
mike

Quote from: Philip on February 25, 2025, 09:21:28 AM

Quote from: Michael Hohn on February 24, 2025, 06:19:33 PMBoy, do I hate airbrush problems.  I feel your pain, Dave.

Same here but they really are nice when working correctly.

Dave, Do you have to shape those roof ends to a duck bill?

Philip

Yeah, shaping them is the challenge... It's not really a duckbill, just a rounded off end.  The challenge is getting all 6 parts (the two center parts, plus 2 lower parts on each side) done to the same profile.  But if I can use a LaBelle roof, I might be able to pay LaBelle to do that for me... 

dave

Quote from: friscomike on February 25, 2025, 09:26:31 AMHowdy Dave,

I reluctantly started straining all the paint that went into the airbrush even the Vallejo paint.  It fixed my stoppage problems, although it wasted a lot of paint. 

Good luck with the clerestory work.

Have fun,
mike

I have a 'vortex shaker', which should break up the most stubborn clumps of pigment.  But that won't work if the paint starts to 'cure' in the bottle.   I actually suggested to Micro-Mark they should see those, BUT I also suggested they needed to replace the test-tube top with a gentle funnel top to hold the various size of paint bottles (from Vallejo style stopper bottles, through Floquil size bottles to craft paint bottles.)  They took the idea for the mixer, but didn't do the better top.   I do see some alternatives on Amazon that have redesigned tops to hold different size bottles. 

Here's a good article on vortex mixers:  https://tangibleday.com/vortex-model-paint-mixer-best-use-tips-and-review/   This is the model I have, bought 6 years ago:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F195B58

dave

Today I spent a productive hour looking at photos and drawings (Car Builder's Dictionary) of the end railings on open platform coaches.  There's a bit of variation, but more importantly, on the B&M coaches it turns out the railing is simple but hard to model.  For that, the railing is an inverted L.  The vertical part, near the platform steps, is rounded.  The horizontal part, along the end of the car, is flat (with 2 vertical posts inserted.)  Now I bet Bernd could model that, heating up brass rod and flattening one end. ;)   Me, I need to decide if I do the whole thing round or flat...

dave

My inner indolent suggests assembling it all flat, and carefully sanding the round bits to remove sharp edges.  Might look right at HO-scale viewing distances.  Unless your layout is regularly-visited by Swiss watchmakers with 10-power loupes.

Quote from: Mr. Critter on February 25, 2025, 06:48:47 PMMy inner indolent suggests assembling it all flat, and carefully sanding the round bits to remove sharp edges.  Might look right at HO-scale viewing distances.  Unless your layout is regularly-visited by Swiss watchmakers with 10-power loupes.

I do have a hand lens from my time as a geology student  :)  

dave

I have sheets of 1/16 and 1/32 lead.  I cut a piece of the 1/16 lead slightly smaller than the car floor, and glued it into position with Barge Cement.  I'll probably go back and run CA around the edges just as added insurance to lock the sheet in place,  Then I'll take it outside and spray it with some paint (probably just a clear coating, I have some gloss spray that I got by accident.)  That added about 5 oz to the car weight, A Good Thing.
IMG_0607.jpg

You can also see the red trucks.  Passenger trucks in the mid to late 1800s were painted rather garish colors.  This red is different from the red used as the trim color on the car, and doesn't look like rust.  ;D  I touched up the springs and bearings, the former with some grey paint and the latter with a dark brown wash.

The appropriate brake castings should arrive today, also hopefully the Tichy order with the turnbuckles.  That'll let me finish the undercarriage.

add:  The end railings are a challenge on any passenger car kit.  I dug out the jig from my Silver Crash open platform coach kit (that's the one that I showed at the beginning, as the colors I was trying to match.)  This jig is very cleverly done.  It's designed for .010x.030 brass bar (which I have in stock).  You shape the brass to the profile of the railing, then insert it into the jig.  You then drill .015 (#79) holes along the lines perpendicular to the railing slot, and the result are holes that are centered in the brass strip.  I had to add another slot to match the end platform castings, and I'm slightly off, but I don't think it's that noticeable.
IMG_0609.jpeg
So 1 down, 3 more to shape and drill. 

another add: done
IMG_0610.jpg
Of course, I lost one assembly during installation, but that's OK. 

dave

Was the jig was supplied with the Silver Crash kit, or did you make it yourself?  Either way, clever indeed.

Quote from: Mr. Critter on February 26, 2025, 05:42:44 PMWas the jig was supplied with the Silver Crash kit, or did you make it yourself?  Either way, clever indeed.

It came from the Silver Crash kit.  I wonder how they made it, the notches are precise in both width and depth.

Oh, this afternoon, I realized that I forgot to take the truss rods into account when I glued the lead weight into position.  So I'll have to drill through the lead (ugh) for the monofilament truss rods.  I'm considering cutting notches into the lead sheet to run the truss rod lines, although I'll have to be careful to control the lead dust. 

dave

I'm wouldn't worry too much about lead dust in that infinitesimal amount.  If you're using a drill bit and/or a file, you'll be making fine lead chips. Easily mopped-up.  Just don't dip the results in vinegar and then lick your fingers.  (Forty-five years in the shooting sports, a decade and a half of it loading my own, and I have yet to attempt to tow a piano across Canada's barren-lands in a lifeboat.  That said, the day's not over...)

Brake layout, using the Cal-Scale old-time tender/passenger car set.  This matches what's in my 1888 and 1906 Car Builder Dictionary.  The 1888 version shows the air reservoir on the same side as the brake cylinder, the 1906 shows the air reservoir on the other side.  I'll do the latter (more interesting viewed from both sides of the car  :D )  Also, I drilled holes through the lead sheeting for the truss rods, added notches in the sheeting for the mono to lay in, and then epoxied the queenpost castings.
IMG_0612.jpg
So next step is to let the epoxy cure, then run the truss rods.  Finally, I'll do the brake gear.  Remember that in the prototype car, the center sill is hollow, so the brake lines run there.  I'll need to trim the casting to cut off the part that should go through the center sill. 

Update: Undercarriage is complete and painted. 
IMG_0616.jpeg

dave

Howdy Dave,

Congrats on the completion of the undercarriage.  The brake gear looks great.

Have fun,
mike

That's some nice work, the railing jig is great. :D

Nice work, Dave.

George

I went back and measured...  The car is at 7 oz, NMRA standards would call for 5 oz.  So I'll cut out and pry off a 2" section of the lead weights.  Hopefully I don't die from the lead dust...

IMG_0617.jpeg
I'll consider if I want to add a 1/16 thick piece of wood in the middle to fill that gap.  It's probably not visible through the car windows.

dave

Quote from: deemery on February 28, 2025, 11:03:10 AMHopefully I don't die from the lead dust...

Howdy Dave, just don't mix it with your scotch and you'll be fine!   ;)  Have fun, mike

Which color for the 'Water Closet' glass?  I'm inclined to go with the green, because it's a nice contrast against the red trim.
IMG_0618.jpeg

dave

Howdy Dave, I like the green.  It contrasts well with the red portal, IMHO.  Have fun, mike

Inking in some window leading looks pretty good:
IMG_0620.jpg

add  Another decision.  There's a wood block behind this window.  The top has a white background on that block, the bottom has a black background.  I'm inclined to go for the white, but the black probably is more prototypical.  Depends on how much I want to show off the 'leading', I think...
IMG_0622.jpg

dave

Looks good.

Excellent, Dave.  ~mike

Dave, you're doing exceptional detailing on this build.
Green looks like the correct choice.

I like the green also.  Nice work Dave.

Jerry

Dave,

Nice looking window.  Hard to judge from the photos, but the leading all but disappears with the black background, so unless the white looks wrong I would tend to favor it. 

Mike

Great progress Dave..... 8)

It's starting to look like a passenger car:
IMG_0624.jpeg

IMG_0625.jpeg

The railings are delicate, I whacked one loose during the test-fit.  But that one has attachment problems anyway, I'll probably redo it. 

By the way, it turns out the LaBelle oval window castings would fit perfectly into my oval holes.  I might well use them...

dave

Looking good Dave.

Bernd

Dave,

This is coming along nicely. Nice piece of passenger equipment.

Tom 

A quicky!  This is an old Model Power baggage car.  I cut off the cast-on truss rods, replacing them with the same mono (and S scale turnbuckles) I used on the Ambroid car.  Then I painted it Badger red-brown primer (same I used on the undercarriage of the Ambroid car), and hand-painted the end railings and undercarriage parts (truss rods, brake gear, etc.)
IMG_0629.jpg
Perhaps most importantly, i replaced the wheelsets that had really deep flanges with some Reboxx 36" wheels.  I'm still waiting for the Kadee parts which I hope will fit into the Talgo truck coupler boxes.  (Otherwise, I'll work out something for couplers.)

Anyway, this will be a good addition to the passenger car fleet.

dave

Nice upgrade of the car, Dave.

George

The internet no longer seems to know much about the Railway Mail Service, so I can't say exactly when they standardized RPO apartment plans. But your MDC car seems to date from before they were standardized. Mail By Rail (Long & Dennis, 1951) hints it might have been 1911.

Quote from: jbvb on March 05, 2025, 07:39:26 PMThe internet no longer seems to know much about the Railway Mail Service, so I can't say exactly when they standardized RPO apartment plans. But your MDC car seems to date from before they were standardized. Mail By Rail (Long & Dennis, 1951) hints it might have been 1911.

That'll fit well into my 1890s era....

dave

Dave,

That looks really good.  It shows what can be done with an inexpensive model with a few well-thought-out upgrades.

Is body mounting the couplers out of the question?

Mike

Quote from: Michael Hohn on March 06, 2025, 10:21:45 AMDave,

That looks really good.  It shows what can be done with an inexpensive model with a few well-thought-out upgrades.

Is body mounting the couplers out of the question?

Mike

The plan is to get the Ambroid kit done, at least far enough to test the couplers (that means permanently affixing the end platforms.)  Then I'll use that kit and the Model Power kit to experiment with couplers on sharp curves.

dave

I added the mailbag catchers
IMG_0632.jpg
Underneath you can see the photo and some calculations on locating the hook.  

dave

A great detail. I just watched a documentary about RPO's. My dad worked on one after WWII with Monon.

Today's the Big Day, where I glue the body to the undercarriage.  First I have to attach the end platform castings.  Earlier, I positioned them, drilled and tapped the metal, and then drilled and tapped the wood.  Then I coated the wood threads with CA, and after that dried thoroughly, I retapped.  (That's a trick I learned from Bob McGlone, who does that on resin kits to reinforce the threads.)  I dug some shorter 2-56 screws, attached the platforms, and checked the fit. 
IMG_0635.jpeg
I built a rack/jig to hold the undercarriage, with 1/2" square underneath the bolsters, the width of the car. 

You can see some space between the casting and the car ends.  I think I'll fill that with some stripwood and paint it, so that'll disappear.  A look from below:
IMG_0636.jpeg
I put a thin coat of epoxy on the wood tongues that the castings fit under, making sure to keep the epoxy away from the screw holes.  Then I clamped the two castings while the epoxy cured. 
IMG_0638.jpeg

While the epoxy is curing, I added the LaBelle oval castings to the 'saloon' windows:
IMG_0637.jpeg

It's important to put the clamps this way to balance them out.
IMG_0641.jpg

Test fit of the roof.  It'll need some trimming as well as shaping the roof outline.
IMG_0640.jpg
But the good news is that the coupler height is correct (that's my coupler test track, the Kadee gauge is off-screen to the right.)

dave

Looks great Dave.  Wonderful build!

Jerry

I like the CA on wood threads tip.

George

Howdy Dave,

The body work looks great. IT is a beautiful coach. Thanks for the tip on wood threads. Good luck on the roof.

Have fun,
mike

I have two roof options.  One is the NESL hollowed out replacement roof.  The problem with this is the clerestory opening isn't long enough, and it would be a lot of work to mill out the extension on either end:
IMG_0642.jpeg
This is a bit surprising, since the insert pieces that provide the clerestory windows are the correct length.

The other option is a LaBelle roof.  The problem here is the end radius doesn't match the car's end:
IMG_0643.jpeg

I think it would be easier to deal with the mismatched ends.  Either way, it's a fair amount more work before I get down to actually rounding the ends.

Thoughts?

dave

Dave I would go with the clerestory.  When you look at it seems that it's long enough why does it need to have the opening over the round window??

Jerry

Quote from: Jerry on March 10, 2025, 05:17:41 PMDave I would go with the clerestory.  When you look at it seems that it's long enough why does it need to have the opening over the round window??

Jerry

Jerry, I thought about that.  The problem is the roof has no "slack" on the ends.  If I don't have it -centered- on the body, the roof won't cover one of the platforms.  If you look closely at my first photo, the end of the wood roof piece on the left is aligned with the car platforms on the left.  There's not much overhang on the right, and worse the right side clerestory opening still won't cover the window underneath. 

PLUS don't forget this car is mirror-symmetric.  The 'saloon' is located on the right side of the car on the other side.  So if I align it on this side, it'll be wrong on the other side of the carl.

dave

Here's how my kit build came out. I might be able to find the kit box this one came from, to confirm who manufactured it.

IMGP9233_v1.JPG

Without putting the cars side-by-side, I can't say why the ends of the open area in my kit's roof are more or less over the end walls of the car body, and yours. Did you lengthen the car sides?  Putting them side-by-side isn't out of the question later this week.

The LaBelle roof you show has a rather high clerestory. to my eye.

Well, I went back and looked closely again at the coach and the NESL stock.  The number of windows on my model matches what's on James' model, so from that I conclude the sides are the same length.  I bought the roof pieces from NESL, I presumed they would be correct, since NESL updated the old Ambroid kit. 

Bob Parrish suggests cutting 2 NESL roofs and splicing them together to the correct length.  I do have 2 roofs, so that's feasible from a parts perspective.  And I looked closely at the roofs to figure out how to glue them together.  The result will be a bit delicate, but doable.  

The clerestory height seems to be about the same between the two roofs (LaBelle and NESL).  The LaBelle roof piece is thicker on top of the clerestory, so that adds probably 1/32 of height.  I didn't measure total roof height, though.

dave

I have several unbuilt kits, plus the built one and another in (stalled) progress.  I'll measure the length of the open part of my kits roofs tonight or tomorrow and report. It's possible your kit wasn't slotted wide enough. And it looks like there's enough wood to make a couple of razor saw cuts and drill a hole crosswise to extend it a bit.

Quote from: jbvb on March 11, 2025, 07:26:09 PMI have several unbuilt kits, plus the built one and another in (stalled) progress.  I'll measure the length of the open part of my kits roofs tonight or tomorrow and report. It's possible your kit wasn't slotted wide enough. And it looks like there's enough wood to make a couple of razor saw cuts and drill a hole crosswise to extend it a bit.

I thought about that, too  ::)  The wood is solid where there's not the clerestory opening.  It seems they used a router to shape these.  One bit digs out the roof, and then another opens up the clerestory windows. 

Here's the 2 roofs, LaBelle on the bottom:
IMG_0645.jpg
You can see on both roofs how the routed-out roof aligns with the end of the clerestory window opening. 

At this point, I'm getting frustrated with the build.  I might just put it aside and start something else.  Unfortunately, I have a lot of almost-finished projects.  I could get back to the Lamson build, or maybe move back to the other corner of the layout where I started on a LM3 Wichendon Machine Shop kit (with machine tools, etc.)

add  I sent a question to NESL asking about those roof kits.  The laser-cut insert for the clerestory 'slot' is the correct length to match the car.

more...  I swapped emails with NESL today.  They said "the clerestory opening is not an accident, it's really designed for scratchbuilders."  But she said she'd check with the shop to see if they could do a custom roof that's open a bit more.  No promises...  

dave