I own two airbrushes and a really good compressor. My first airbrush was a Badger, and my second is a Paasche H-3, single action external mix, with a gravity feed cup on the side. I have had them for years, and have not quite gotten the hang of using them. I'd like to start a discussion for the archives of YOUR likes and dislikes of using an airbrush. Bottle feed, side feed, gravity feed; single action vs. double action, smelly Floquil type paints vs. acrylic paints; how to thin paints; how to clean the airbrush; storage of leftover mixed colors... etc.
Great topic!
I started with a Badger but now use a Paasche Talon Double Action Gravity fed airbrush. For a compressor I went out and got a regular (non-hobby) compressor. I've used Floquil exclusively but I guess I have to bite the bullet and experiment with different types of acrylic paints. I usually mix only what I need and don't try to store the leftovers. As far as actually painting things most of what I've done is solid colors. Priming castings, final colors on doors and windows, etc. I have messed around, with some success, applying layers of colors to shingles to create some interesting effects. I want to experiment with using it to weather engines and freight cars (ACL1504 is a master at this).
After every use I run a little thinner through the brush and then disassemble the body and give everything a thorough cleaning before reassembling it and putting it away. All my painting is done out in my driveway. Given the high levels of humidity down here in Florida a moisture trap is an absolute must have.
I didn't think I'd like the gravity fed, cup on top airbrush but I really found that it's not a problem. It's not like I'm turning it upside down or sideways when I'm painting. If I don't fill the cup more than 3/4's of the way the paint doesn't spill out of the cup.
The one thing I do make sure of before I start a session is that I have ample time to do what needs to be done and properly clean the air brush when I'm finished. You can't really drop what you're doing and come back to it the next day. Well, you can, but you won't like what you find. ;)
I'm looking forward to hearing about others experience with acrylics.
I've got an Iwata HP-CS. It's a great a double acting gravity feed airbrush. Super easy to clean, disassemble and reassemble.
I shoot cheap acrylics with it but haven't really perfected the mix. They're funny. When you get them thin enough to shoot they can be a little too thin. This is when the double-action helps out.
My compressor is an OLD "Penncrest" (J.C.Penny) diaphragm compressor that looks identical to the Badger compressors built at the same time. So, Badger was doing a private label for Penny's about 50 years ago. Surprised that the compressor still works!
-slim
Quote from: Slim Jerkins on December 19, 2014, 10:23:03 AM
I've got an Iwata HP-CS. It's a great a double acting gravity feed airbrush. Super easy to clean, disassemble and reassemble.
I shoot cheap acrylics with it but haven't really perfected the mix. They're funny. When you get them thin enough to shoot they can be a little too thin. This is when the double-action helps out.
My compressor is an OLD "Penncrest" (J.C.Penny) diaphragm compressor that looks identical to the Badger compressors built at the same time. So, Badger was doing a private label for Penny's about 50 years ago. Surprised that the compressor still works!
-slim
We're surprised YOU still work hehehehehehe
Quote from: Randee on December 19, 2014, 10:30:36 AM
Quote from: Slim Jerkins on December 19, 2014, 10:23:03 AM
I've got an Iwata HP-CS. It's a great a double acting gravity feed airbrush. Super easy to clean, disassemble and reassemble.
I shoot cheap acrylics with it but haven't really perfected the mix. They're funny. When you get them thin enough to shoot they can be a little too thin. This is when the double-action helps out.
My compressor is an OLD "Penncrest" (J.C.Penny) diaphragm compressor that looks identical to the Badger compressors built at the same time. So, Badger was doing a private label for Penny's about 50 years ago. Surprised that the compressor still works!
-slim
We're surprised YOU still work hehehehehehe
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Quote from: Randee on December 19, 2014, 10:30:36 AM
Quote from: Slim Jerkins on December 19, 2014, 10:23:03 AM
I've got an Iwata HP-CS. It's a great a double acting gravity feed airbrush. Super easy to clean, disassemble and reassemble.
I shoot cheap acrylics with it but haven't really perfected the mix. They're funny. When you get them thin enough to shoot they can be a little too thin. This is when the double-action helps out.
My compressor is an OLD "Penncrest" (J.C.Penny) diaphragm compressor that looks identical to the Badger compressors built at the same time. So, Badger was doing a private label for Penny's about 50 years ago. Surprised that the compressor still works!
-slim
We're surprised YOU still work hehehehehehe
You're right come to think of it :P
-slim
Randy....
I'll join the fray here............ I use a brush that is as antiquated as me. A circa 60's Binks Wren gun. It is a single acting dinosaur but I have learned its' idiosyncrasies so why change?
Given that......... I tried (borrowed) a vibrator compressor some eons ago and found that it could not keep up.
With compressors there are issues of both pressure and volume. Vibrators have trouble with volume. That shows up as............ It's running.... you key the brush and you hear a significant air sound change within a few seconds. Even with a regulator they struggle. There are all sorts of piston / tank compressors out there in various sizes. I use an old Dayton rattle trap but it has a seven gallon bottle and that is enough stability of pressure and volume to make things work.
Next is pressure.......... That will vary based on what you are blowing through the brush and what your brush seems to like. It is easy to "over blow" your brush. That will show up often as a periphery pattern with a hole in the middle. My Binks fishing sinker likes 16 psi when I am pushing distillate paints. I am not very practiced with acrylics. I have found that most acrylics break well with 92% cheap alcohol. I've not had good luck with plain water as a reducer. I live in an area where there is NO humidity so another problem is the paint drying before it gets to the model...... thus I have to shoot things rather "wet".
I don't have too much problem with over thinning with distillates but it is easy to tip over on acrylics just to get it to move in my siphon bottles. It's an excuse to be reminded that multiple coats is better than one oooy gooy one.
Next? ? ? ?
see ya
Bob
I use a Harder and Steenbeck Evolution with a Silent 20A compressor.
(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.germanairbrush.com%2Fpictures%2Fevolution_02.gif&hash=6b1142946f0b92acdbbc451862e96b8ea058fce0)
I've tried a lot of stuff over the years, including Badger 200, Aztek, Badger 350. Currently I have 3, a cheapo $50 from eBay (top feed double action), a top feed Iwata Eclipse, and a side feed Iwata. I have a Silentaire compressor, purchased because it's both quiet and can put out 40 psi. I also have a relatively quiet spraybooth, so I can spray on the same floor as the TV and not bother the wife.
For paints I've had very good luck so far with the Micromark (Vallejo private label) airbrush-ready acrylics, and the Tru-Color paints (acetone is their solvent.) I've had a bit less luck thinning regular Vallejo paints. I really liked spraying Floquil, but that stuff got really stinky even with a spray booth.
For cleaning acrylics, I dump my hand with the airbrush into a quart yoghurt container of windshield wiper fluid, and hold the trigger down for a minute or so. Then I run the paint's thinner/airbrush cleaner until I don't see any more color on a paper towel, followed by Iwata/Medea's thinner. Usually, I'll pull the needle, run some thinner soaked pipe cleaners through the brush and run the needle itself through a piece of fine steel wool (to polish off any paint residue.)
All that being said, I still think airbrushes are a pain in the ass, even though they're usually worth it.
dave
Quote from: deemery on December 19, 2014, 04:21:48 PM
I've tried a lot of stuff over the years, including Badger 200, Aztek, Badger 350. Currently I have 3, a cheapo $50 from eBay (top feed double action), a top feed Iwata Eclipse, and a side feed Iwata. I have a Silentaire compressor, purchased because it's both quiet and can put out 40 psi. I also have a relatively quiet spraybooth, so I can spray on the same floor as the TV and not bother the wife.
For paints I've had very good luck so far with the Micromark (Vallejo private label) airbrush-ready acrylics, and the Tru-Color paints (acetone is their solvent.) I've had a bit less luck thinning regular Vallejo paints. I really liked spraying Floquil, but that stuff got really stinky even with a spray booth.
For cleaning acrylics, I dump my hand with the airbrush into a quart yoghurt container of windshield wiper fluid, and hold the trigger down for a minute or so. Then I run the paint's thinner/airbrush cleaner until I don't see any more color on a paper towel, followed by Iwata/Medea's thinner. Usually, I'll pull the needle, run some thinner soaked pipe cleaners through the brush and run the needle itself through a piece of fine steel wool (to polish off any paint residue.)
All that being said, I still think airbrushes are a pain in the ass, even though they're usually worth it.
dave
Well said!
Over the years of doing art work with all kinds of airbrushing. I have spent $100s on all kinds of them with my favorite at the time being the iwata eclips. Until found the neo from iwata 1/3 the cost and just as good maybe better.
(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1291.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb551%2Frussellfawcett%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FScreenshot_2014-12-19-18-10-09-1_zps3dzqsg7l.png&hash=3620812e946715e1872b78381fb3a2d32c92b7be)
My air compressor is a porter cable large comp with a moisture tap and vent. Its set at 30 to 38 psi depending on what i am shooting. I have used iron based pigments for Sophisticated Finishes with great results. Clean everything with soap and water and have a 2nd gun for solvent based paint.
I have an Iwata Eclipse. The gravity feed is great, if I don't tip the airbrush and make paint spill out :-\ , it does have a "cap" if I think I'm gonna be spraying wildly. The advantage to the gravity feed is no other bottles/tubes to clean. I use original Windex (get the gallon jugs) for quick cleaning, and lacquer thinner if things are getting gummed up with the acrylics, which is mostly what I spray. I thin the Vallejo with their own thinner, Polly with distilled water. It's very easy to clean. I have an Iwata compressor which is very quiet.
Jeff
Thanks for all the tips...keep 'em coming!
To add to my post , I use Vallejo Air straight from the bottle and sometimes Tamiya which I thin with distilled water. I clean with Glassex which is I believe the same product as Windex , but then the dollar store version , cheaper and better.
I keep distilled water in a 'sport bottle' water bottle, and windshield cleaner in a "recycled" contact lens solution bottle. Each allow me to add a relatively small amount to the airbrush for thinning or cleaning. Just make sure you clearly label any recycled/repurposed bottles, particularly those that used to contain potable water, etc.
dave
Gail had an Aztek DA airbrush that I tried but I had a shaky hand that gets worse when I grip things tightly. I just couldn't operate the thing.
Then I found this Grex airbrush Genesis XT:
(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn3.volusion.com%2Fcxyjk.dfrse%2Fv%2Fvspfiles%2Fphotos%2FGenesis.XT-2.jpg%3F1417681196&hash=159b33d7f759fb530162b5ef8d87a24cf465f3bd) (http://cdn3.volusion.com/cxyjk.dfrse/v/vspfiles/photos/Genesis.XT-2.jpg?1417681196)
The DA trigger control doesn't require a tight grip and the gravity flow works perfectly. Easy cleanup too.
Less than $160 and I use it every time I want a nice even finish.
Iwata also makes a trigger control unit but for more $$$
I have been using ModelFlex (Badger) paints directly in the airbrush with good results. I will buy some of the Vallejo next and try them also. I like the 'no thinning required' feature of these paints.
8)
On Monday, Dec 01, 2014, explained how he sprays acrylic craft paints (Folk Art or Apple Barrel) with an airbrush, on the old forum:
http://kitforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15745&p=286649&hilit=airbrush#p286649
Re: Dave's Antiques
Postby DaveInTheHat ยป Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:02 pm
QuoteTo spray Folk Art or Apple Barrel paints I thin them with blue windshield washer fluid. I get it about the constancy of milk. To check the viscosity I stick a toothpick in the paint and one good drop drips off before I can count to 10. I sort of figured that out by trial and clogged up airbrush. If its too thin the paint will wick to the edges of whatever you're painting. I tried thinning craft paints with everything I could find around the house and windshield washer fluid works the best. Alcohol, water, Windex, and other household products all left me with lumps in the paint or didn't mix at all.
It takes a little more air pressure to get it to spray right. I usually go around 30 to 40 psi. If the psi is too low the paint will sort of splatter. I usually let the paint dry 24 hours before I start doing anything with it.
For parts that get handled or parts that I'm going to mask over freshly painted areas I give them a coat of clear mat or gloss paint. So far anything that I used worked ok. Most of the time I use Krylon over it.
Windshield washer fluid is poisonous to humans and pets make sure you spray it with good ventilation.
I needed to save this for myself...!
I'm hooked on Pasasche airbrushes. I have one that's from the '50's. It's just like the H only bigger. I have 2 H brushes. I got a good deal on one after I beat the crap out of my first one. I'm still using the first H that I bought in the 70's. I don't know why it still works. Not only did I use it for hobby stuff, but I used it for work at a couple different jobs. It's had a lot of use and still works just as good as it did from day one. I have a VL. I only use it once and a while for really detailed work.
I started with a diaphragm compressor and then added a make shift air tank. That worked ok for a while. I couldn't get enough air pressure for some of the paints I was using. I went through a couple of cheap air compressors. The $100 kind. Other than being extremely loud and prone to failure they worked ok. They have about 1000 hour life expectancy and always seemed to breakdown in the middle of a money paying job.
A while ago I was in the middle of painting 20 trolly cars for a customer and my compressor made a funny noise and the air pressure dropped to zero. I took it apart and the piston was in about 10 prices. I had to go back to my 30 year old vibrating diaphragm comprssor to finish the job. A friend of mine told me to get a new compressor from California Air. Since I trust his advise I did.
(https://modelersforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.californiaairtools.com%2Fs%2Fcc_images%2Fcache_3834753804.jpg&hash=2af52618a3fa01cf57863cd79caf8a0eb339610b) (http://www.californiaairtools.com/s/cc_images/cache_3834753804.jpg)
I love this compressor. It's about as quiet as you can get for under $500. The air supply is smooth. The recovery time is really fast. My workroom is in an upstairs bedroom and I can usually get away with running it while my wife is watching tv in the next room and it doesn't bother her. With my old cheap compressor the noise was so bad nobody in the house could hear anything else.
My compressor cost a little over $200. I think it's a good deal. They have a bunch of different models and videos on their website.
Quote from: Randee on December 22, 2014, 01:15:16 PM
I needed to save this for myself...!
SLOW LOSES!!I've already saved this for myself! No embarrassment here - I'll steal any good tip I can find - and
particularly Dave's !!!
I too started with a Badger blue plastic atomizer. Now I use a Paasche H single-action supplied by a dry nitrogen tank and regulator I got at a welding supply store. I prefer Floquil, Scalecoat and Tru-Color to acrylic paints; I've done several locos & cars with acrylics, using about 25 lb. where the solvent paints like maybe 18 lb. and holding the airbrush farther from the work so the paint loses more water in transit. But all my acrylics turned into lumps in their bottles after a few years and I'm still using old metal-can Floquil that's probably 45 years old. While the acrylic paints lasted, I never figured out how to do airbrush weathering with them.
just saw this and thought I would chime in. For any of you the have ever been to one of my clings or stopped by our table at a show you already know I prefer Badger 150 brushes. I have a dozen of them. I also have a badger 350, and a 200. They are in the retired drawer.
I got my start in the hobby working at Mitchell's in the 1980's. Occasionally someone wold return an airbrush that they said did not work. One day noticing a couple of these in the back room I inquired. I then asked is I could get them working could I have them, with the answer been yes it began my collection of brushes (they just needed a good cleaning).
I prefer the 150 because of the shape and ease of trigger. I spray with a medium head and a fine needle (unless spraying O scale or larger). I have used Pasche, Thayer Chandler, etc but much like the difference between a #2 pencil and mechanical I prefer the #2.
I prefer to use solvent based paints. I do not care for acrylics on model work, never have. But I will use them if needed. After spraying a color I will spray either thinner, water or acetone through the brush until no color remains (again dictated by type of paint used. I do disassemble the brush at least once a day for thorough cleaning (Yup, I spray often, several times a day). for air I have a large compressor and tank with air lines run throughout the shop. The port in the spray room does have a moisture trap in line. Don't think I forgot anything. Please let me know if anyone has any questions. Hope to see several of you next week in Springfield!
Quote from: gnatshop on December 22, 2014, 08:51:25 PM
Quote from: Randee on December 22, 2014, 01:15:16 PM
I needed to save this for myself...!
SLOW LOSES!!
I've already saved this for myself! No embarrassment here - I'll steal any good tip I can find - and
particularly Dave's !!!
Gnat.....is it really you??? We've missed you and the Leadbetters around here. :) :) :)
Greg my man, wake up! Gman posted that FIVE years ago. Just saying.
Tom ;D