Help with a starter DCC system

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi guys.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice on this age old question!!!  Also - please fell free to move this question to a more appropriate place - but I really couldn't fine one.  I figured here it would get the most views.

I will be moving to DCC sometime in the not too distant future.  I've tried to do my homework so as not to ask the same old questions - but forgive me if I ask a few.

My Shadowland and Tellynott layout is in HO scale and is (will be) a mountain layout with a port town.  The mountain part will have the usual bowel of spaghetti track layout with fairly sharp curves and steep grades.  The room is approximately 10m x 6m (32' x 19').  One day it would be nice to have our 2fatpossums group operating the layout - which would mean 5 trains running at one time.  This would be the maximum, and typically I would probably do well to run 2.  Three members of this group use NCE, along with several other friends living nearby, so I have decided that this is the manufacturer I will go with (after reading several threads suggesting the huge benefits of doing this -using the same system as your friends/ fellow modelers').  As Shadowlands will be a mountain layout with scenery to above my head, and I intend to walk around with a train, switching as I go, I need the system to be untethered.  I'm guessing I could operate Tellynott (the port) with a tethered throttle, but can see this being a bit of a pain.  Locomotives will mainly be geared, although these are still generally still to be decided.  Some brass which may prove problematic?  The layout is set up in our barn, on our 11 acre block in rural Canterbury, New Zealand.  Let me know if I have missed anything of importance.

My latest plan can be found here:

https://railroad-line.com/node/21187/page49 

(also on page 50 is work on a model of a model, which should help with visualization)
​​​​​​​
So...

If using the NCE radio system - has anyone had problems with interference from electric fences?  The TV and radios all seem to ok, but there is the ongoing audible 'crack, crack, crack' when using the landline phone.  There are multiple properties surrounding us with electric fences, so tracking down the problem and getting it fixed would be near on impossible.

Is there any great advantage to buying the: 

Powerhouse pro 5amp wireless system (plus power supply)

over the: 

Power cab, and then later adding a program track auto switch, radio base station, SB5 smartbooster and a CAB06r?  (I'm assuming I could also send my power cab back to get it retrofitted for wireless operation.)

The pros and cons I can see are:

Buying the more expensive system would likely mean I would get stung with 15% GST.  Probably not so by buying the power cab and later add-ons in two separate transactions - although shipping would be more.

Starting with the power cab would mean I could be up and running for a much smaller initial outlay (although tethered).

By starting with the power cab and later buying a CAB06r I would end up with two throttles (is this right?  can I still use the power pro as a cab if taking this route and using with the smartbooster? - It would be nice to have a spare cab for visitors.)

If I bought the Powerhouse pro I would have wireless from the outset.

Sending the power pro throttle back for retrofitting for wireless use would be time consuming and costly - indeed the shipping would probably be almost as much as the $102 it costs to have the work done - maybe more!

OK - I thinks that's it!  I am a beginner and not very savvy when it comes to anything electrical or computer based, but I'm hopping that my friends with NCE systems will be happy to help.  Putting on modeling weekends and serving up nice lunches several times a year certainly helps! 

Cheers, Mark.

[Zephyrus52246]

Not sure about the electric fence question.  We have an "invisible fence" for the dog.  It is an underground wire that only has about 2 meters of range.  I've never had any issues with the NCE system having interference with this or anything else.  I'm not an expert on the Power cab, as it wasn't available when I started the layout 20 years ago.  I personally think you'd be happier starting with the wireless, rather than plugging/unplugging over such a large layout.  Why would you pay 15% more due to the Powerhouse Pro vs the Powercab? 


Jeff

[Mark Dalrymple]

Thanks, Jeff.

Why would you pay 15% more due to the Powerhouse Pro vs the Powercab?

Its to do with our GST importation rules.  Goods imported by private individuals at under $1,000NZ are exempt from GST (15%), providing the company does less than $60,000 annual dealings with NZ.  I would expect the wireless system to be just over the threshold.  The $1,000 used to include shipping, but I'm not sure if it does now.  The NZ - USA exchange rate is hovering around the $1US = $0.7NZ.

Cheers, Mark.

[deemery]

Have you considered "rolling your own" using an Arduino?  I understand there's software and how-to available to construct the equivalent of a "Sprog".  That would finesse most of the shipping issues, since I presume someone is already importing Arduinos to NZ.


dave

[Jim Donovan]

Hi Mark;

I have the NCE power cab set up (tethered) and for one or two trains it works great but with only 1.7 amps that limits it. The jump in price for wireless really is big but it if you are like me and about at my level when it comes to electronics I would stick to a store bought system.  I can handle simple wiring, soldering, even have a couple juicers on layout. I have programmed Arduino's  and continue to learn about them so I might add animation to scenes. However, for me, learning the level of knowledge required to integrate computer systems like Arduino takes time away from the parts of hobby I really enjoy. There are only so many hours in a day.   

So if you are 100 percent sure you are going  to run several trains and want to stick with NCE (I plan to) jump in and get the Pro wireless  set up from the start rather then adding and hoping everything plays nice. If not 100 percent take baby steps and learn as you go. NCE is solid so a good choice in either situation.

As for your land line ticking noise from electric fences I had it years ago.  I seriously doubt it would affect the wireless system. A telephone repair man put a static filter on incoming land line and the noise was gone. Well hope that helps. Love watching your modeling and really enjoyed visiting your county several years ago. As you say.
Cheers

Jim D

[PRR Modeler]

Mark,

I have a Digitrax 5 amp system. Before that I had the Digitrax Zephyr + which I belive is 2.5 amps (smaller layout) I believe. As a single operator the smaller units are perfect. I went with Digitrax because I was new into the hobby (again) and the club I joined used it.

I'm lucky since I have a local friend that is very knowledgeable about Digitrax. The manuals are hard to read and are written like you have a computer degree (IMHO). I have never had to contact Digitrax for a service or technical issue but have been told by others that it tends to be a frustrating experience.

All in all the system runs well except for operator error but seems overly complicated. If I was just starting out again with no other support I would probably go another route. Just my 2 cents.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Thanks Dave, Jim and Curt.

Dave - no.  As stated I'm not very computer or electrically savvy.  I would also pretty much be on my own - I only know of one person in Christchurch who uses this system.

Curt - That's is what I have heard from the people I have talked to here.  Also that the Digitrax system is not intuitive.  There are a number of people here using digitrax, but as I said, those I spend the most time with mainly use NCE.  I have talked to a couple of people who are well versed in both - so can give an honest comparison.

Jim-

for me, learning the level of knowledge required to integrate computer systems like Arduino takes time away from the parts of hobby I really enjoy

I agree completely.

jump in and get the Pro wireless  set up from the start rather then adding and hoping everything plays nice

Why wouldn't everything 'play nice'?  I thought this was just a different route and designed to be made up this way so that you could 'grow' with your layout - including choosing to go wireless.

I would love to hear from anyone who has gone wireless from a power cab.

Cheers, Mark.

[deemery]

Curt implicitly hit the best advice I've seen on DCC:  "Buy what is used in your area."  It seems that each DCC system has A LOT of foibles and learning curve.  Sharing that experience helps everyone.  (During the operating session on James Van Bokkelen's RR, a loco ran away from me and even pressing the Big Red STOP button didn't help.  It finally hit a misaligned turnout and derailed, and I got grief for running signals and derailing...)


dave

[BandOGuy]

Mark,
IMIO (in my ignorant opinion) I think you answered your biggest question in your post earlier today. If you have friends who use NCE, that would to me be the way to go for what you're describing. The local support network even stateside here is invaluable. I bought NCE based on the advise of a hobby store owner I trusted. Out of 27 operators in our Tuesday round-robin group, there are 4 NCE guys; the rest are all Digitrax and only 2 or 3 of them really knows what makes Digitrax tick. Go with where you feel you have the best support.
Please pardon my geographical ignorance of Australia. I have fond, bleary memories of a week in Sydney, but I digress. If you haven't all ready caught the Modelers Life podcast hosted by Lionel Strang, there are several very knowledgeable Australian modelers who contribute to the broadcast and on Wednesday evenings US time, there is an open Zoom call with all the listeners to discuss whatever. Several of the Aussies are major contributors to that call. Don't know where they are in relation to you, but who knows?
Cheers!

[Mark Dalrymple]

Thanks, guys.

Just to reiterate - as I outlined in my original post - I have already decided to go with NCE - this is not in question.

BandOGuy - I live in New Zealand, not Australia - they are completely different countries.  The closest is over 3 hours travel by plane over the Tasman sea.

Cheers, Mark.

[jerryrbeach]

Mark,


I know almost nothing about DCC.  I do sometimes watch some of the videos on this YouTube channel.  I don't know if you will find anything of value here but, just in case, here's the link. HTH


https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDCCGuy

[Zephyrus52246]

I glanced thru the NCE site.  The Power Cab is designed to be upgradable.  You have a rather large layout, I wonder if Power Cab has enough voltage to get over the whole layout without a voltage drop.  I have a similar sized room for the main portion of my layout and have a 5 amp system and booster.  I use 12 gauge wire for the track bus and have no voltage drop end to end.  Even with the wireless I have cab bus plug in areas every 8 feet or so (probably overkill).  I think unless you plan to stand at the one plug in area, you'll need these cab bus plug ins as well.  I too would be interested to hear from someone with the PowerCab that upgraded.  Did they wish they had just started with the Power Pro? 


Jeff

[Mark Dalrymple]

I know almost nothing about DCC.  I do sometimes watch some of the videos on this YouTube channel.  I don't know if you will find anything of value here but, just in case, here's the link. HTH

Thanks for the rabbit hole, Jerry.  Most helpful.  I've skim watch about three so far and there is a lot of information there.  The trouble is the headings are not always a true representation of where the video goes.  They sometimes seem to go off on a tangent that I don't want to know about (worse - there is probably stuff I do want to know about on videos with titles I have skipped).  Do bear in mind I only have a sample size of 3!  I could get brave and ask Mr Puckett about buying the powerhouse pro wireless vs upgrading a power cab.  I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering.  Maybe it will spawn a video?

Cheers, Mark.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Thanks, Jeff.

You have a rather large layout, I wonder if Power Cab has enough voltage to get over the whole layout without a voltage drop.  I have a similar sized room for the main portion of my layout and have a 5 amp system and booster.

Interestingly - I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere so far - although I have been asked it by friends.  If I were to start with the power cab, then initially I would only have the port town to run.  Stage 2 would include a run to the fiddle yard and return loop and a high and low dead end track of approximately 30'.  Its not until I get to stage 3 that we really encounter the spaghetti.  I was thinking I could start with the power cab, then add a smart booster at stage 2, then the rest at stage 3. 

even with the wireless I have cab bus plug in areas every 8 feet or so

I think you are right about this (although I think I would just put the cab bus plug ins at obvious operating areas).  I will likely have friends coming around with tethered throttles.  This was also mentioned on Mr Puckett's video as a safeguard for running out of batteries.

Do I correctly assume that the CAB06 throttle has walkaround memory?

Thanks for the help, cheers, Mark.

[BandOGuy]

Thanks, guys.

Just to reiterate - as I outlined in my original post - I have already decided to go with NCE - this is not in question.

BandOGuy - I live in New Zealand, not Australia - they are completely different countries.  The closest is over 3 hours travel by plane over the Tasman sea.

Cheers, Mark.

I told you my Australian geography was bad. Even after spending a wonderful week in Auckland after Viet Nam tour.