Fixing a brass Erie 2-8-4, Class S-4 for Erieman

[ACL1504]

Yesterday I mentioned replacing the old open frame motor with a 20X32 Sagami (Japan) can motor. The 20X32 is in millimeters. In the business we just refer to can motors as 20X32 or 32X40, etc.

The old motor shaft and gear shaft were connected by the use of a small rubber tube/hose. The tube was so old and hard that I had to use a #11 xacto blade to remove it. I'm surprised it still worked. I was gong to replace it with a new one but found a used universal coupling to use. This will give Frank a smoother running loco with no chance of slippage of the tube and shaft.







Continued in a few. Of course, I need a fresh cold Diet Pepsi.

[ACL1504]

Next order of business was to attach the Sagami can motor to the locomotive frame. One thing to consider when replacing a motor is how and will the new motor fit inside the locomotive firebox.

I used the can motor and measured where the old frame motor was attached to the frame. In the next photo you can see the two old large holes in the frame. Two larger screws were used here to attach the old motor. Two new holes were drilled in the frame to attach the can motor. The two new screws hold the can motor to the frame.



Here is the new motor and original gear box housing. Notice the motor shaft and the gear box shaft are on the same plane. This will give the loco a very smooth ride.



Continued in a few.

[ACL1504]

I then did a test fit by placing the loco on the frame. IT DIDN'T FIT. What the ??

I then realized my mistake.  In measuring the new motor, I neglected to take into account the power/electrical poles on the back of the motor. The photos below are a repeat to show the back of the motor.






The motor fits inside the boiler but not with the electrical tabs sticking out the back.

Back to the drawing board.

More in a few.

[ACL1504]

I then measured the depth of the electrical tabs and remeasured and redrilled two new holes in the frame for the motor to be moved forward 1/4 inch. This of course created a domino affect.

The motor shaft had to be cut 1/4 inch shorter. This required the removal of the universal joint also. One hour later and it was all back together and the motor now fits inside the boiler.

No picture here as you can't see the motor with the boiler on.

In the photo below, you can see where new holes were drilled and the motor attached.




I was still able to maintain the shaft alignment.





Preparing the loco frame, new motor, universal joint and the second motor position was just under 4 hours. Three hours 56 minutes so I'll round it up to four hours.

The motor replacement $25.00 X 4 = $100.00. This gives us a running total of $187.50. And, I haven't started the broken pilot repair yet.

[Powersteamguy1790]

Nice work so far Tom.

Stay cool and run steam........

[ACL1504]

Nice work so far Tom.

Stay cool and run steam........

Bob,

Thank you kind sir. I appreciate you following along and posting your thoughts and comments.

Tom

[tct855]

Tom,
          I have a question for you sir.  I noticed you reused the original gear box (which helps when applicable).  It must have been in good condition (no hair line cracks or worn bearings etc.)  Did you need to add any thrust washers for any slop play?  Thanx Thom...

[ACL1504]

I emailed an old brass repair and painting guy out west, Oregon to be exact. We used to give each other business.

I got an email from him saying he quit the brass repair and painting business four years ago. He said he got tired of customers constantly trying to undercut his prices. At the time he quit, he was charging $775.00 per paint job depending on the complexity. The $775.00 was for a basic paint job of Smoke and Firebox Grey/Silver/Aluminum and loco and tender black. This included the decals supplied by the customer.

For the Pennsy K4, Southern PS4, SP GS4 and others, he added another $425.00.

Cab curtains, cab windows painted, cab windows installed, marker lights, coal load, firebox lights, CIL (Constant Intensity Lighting), Crew, Kadee couplers, whistle and bell cords were all added extras.

On repairs he charged $45.00 per hour.

My $25.00 per hour for the purpose of this thread is indeed very conservative.

Tom

[ACL1504]

Tom,
          I have a question for you sir.  I noticed you reused the original gear box (which helps when applicable).  It must have been in good condition (no hair line cracks or worn bearings etc.)  Did you need to add any thrust washers for any slop play?  Thanx Thom...

Thom,

Thanks for mentioning this. I was going to cover this area in the next installment. But for your question this gear box is tight with no slop or movement.

I'll add more to this in the next installment. Probably tomorrow. I need to get off my rear for a few hours now.

Tom

[KCS Trains]

Tom, I doubt I would ever invest in a brass locomotive, but man I'm really enjoying your thread.  I'm learning a lot. You are a craftsman.   I'm glad you are feeling better and back at it, even at the bench.  Phil

[sdrees]

Hi Tom,


I love this stuff that you are doing with Frank's brass locomotives.  It is something different and something that I need to get the courage to try and do it myself.  I have always wanted try this because I have some old PFM brass locomotives that I have had when I was in high school and college and need updating with new motors, some repair work and decoders installed.

So I will be and avid follower.

[ACL1504]

Tom, I doubt I would ever invest in a brass locomotive, but man I'm really enjoying your thread.  I'm learning a lot. You are a craftsman.   I'm glad you are feeling better and back at it, even at the bench.  Phil

Phil,

I was fortunate enough to get some brass way back in the early 70's. Even though the price seems tame now, meaning at those 70 prices. It was a struggle to get brass locos back then.

I think I pushed it a little early in the week so I backed off until this afternoon. Although I can tell things are much better due to the rest. I appreciate you following along and happy you are enjoying the thread.

Tom

[ACL1504]

Hi Tom,


I love this stuff that you are doing with Frank's brass locomotives.  It is something different and something that I need to get the courage to try and do it myself.  I have always wanted try this because I have some old PFM brass locomotives that I have had when I was in high school and college and need updating with new motors, some repair work and decoders installed.

So I will be and avid follower.

Steve,

Glad you are enjoying the thread. I remember the first brass loco I worked on and I was sure very timid about it.

Working on brass has been fun and frustrating over the past 35+ years. There seems to be one devil loco in every 100 or so and that is the one that makes me want to throw it up against the wall. Better yet put it in the oven at 400 degree and melt it. Oh, wait, I've already melted two out of the last 365+ paint jobs.


I appreciate you following along.


Tom

[ACL1504]

Thom mentioned the possibility of having to shore up the gear box using thrust washers.

This question goes along with something I neglected to mention earlier in the post. Although this loco has some issues, mainly which are cosmetic in nature, I'll get to them later in the thread.

Upon giving the loco a good inspection, I found that it has been infrequently used. The paint job is an older one but the loco is mechanically very sound.

DCC was first developed in Germany (LENZ) in the 1980's. Some time in the early 1990's the NMRA DCC committee got involved and the NMRA standards were published MR in October of 1983 if my memory is correct.

Back in a few.

[ACL1504]

Okay, I got a little side tracked but my point is that this loco is relatively new as far as time on the rails. When PFM came out with the DC Analog sound, it was acceptable to install the PFM sound using the old open frame Pittman motors.

My point being is that this loco has never been wired for anything. It is just a straight DC running loco at this time.

This next photo shows what appears to be excessive wear on the main drivers. Notice that I cleaned the driver wheel in the middle.



There was no wheel wear but just plain very dirty driver tires. This is the crude I got off the tires. The Q-tips show the gunk. The tires were cleaned by using Acetone on the Q-tip and removing the dirt on the driver tires.



Now, nice and clean and no wheel wear.



Continued in a few.