Shadowlands and Tellynott

[ACL1504]

Mark, Cheers,

Great Helix design. I like how you made the brackets adjustable. Well done Mark.

Is there a reason you didn't lay the track as the Helix went up? Inquiring minds and all that. Perhaps it has something to do with what you referred to as "setrack". Never hears the term.

Tom 

[Mark Dalrymple]

Mark, Cheers,

Great Helix design. I like how you made the brackets adjustable. Well done Mark.

Is there a reason you didn't lay the track as the Helix went up? Inquiring minds and all that. Perhaps it has something to do with what you referred to as "setrack". Never hears the term.

Tom

Thanks, Tom.

OK.  Firstly - I'm getting everything finished before adding glue - just to be sure it all works as it should and I have got all my measurements right.  I can then undo and build it up again from the bottom, adding glue, and can lay my cork and track at that point.  I had a starting point at the top of the helix - actually just after the last turnout at Hope - but did not know exactly where the bottom of the grade would finish, so I had to kind of build the helix backwards anyway.  Peco does setrack (sectional track) in code 100.  Their setrack uses tighter, fixed radii.  This track is rigid and true.  As my layout uses very short rolling stock and is set in a mountainous area I was OK with using their #2 radius as my minimum (17 5/8" or 438mm).  With my track laying I have been joining my track with soldered jointers on all the curves and leaving gapped expansion joints where these end - usually every 2, or at most, every 2 and a bit lengths of fleitrack (some 6 - 7 feet).  The curve in the helix is far greater than this - which I saw as a problem.  It is also hidden from view, so I have opted to use setrack.  The curves are all very consistent and will be joined eight times a circuit.  I will gap each joint slightly for expansion and will add droppers to every piece of track - while laying.  I hope this answers all your questions.

Cheers, Mark.

[ACL1504]

Mark, Cheers,

Okay, that makes sense now. I didn't know PECO made sectional track. You are correct that they will give you the perfect curved radius in the Helix.

Thanks for the information and explanation.

Tom 

[deemery]

Mark, do you have eased curves leading into that 17 5/8 Peco fixed radius track?  Or is there a tangent straight into the sharp radius?

dave

[Mark Dalrymple]

Mark, do you have eased curves leading into that 17 5/8 Peco fixed radius track?  Or is there a tangent straight into the sharp radius?

dave

Hi Dave.

At the bottom I have #2 (438mm) curve going to a #3 (505mm)curve and will then probably add a special curve (R = 880mm?) before adding a transition straight (code 100 to code 75).  On the top I'll go straight from #2 to a special curve and then straight.  You have to bare in mind that the vast majority of my rolling stock is only 3" long.  My passenger cars are 4".  My locos are 0-4-0's, 0-6-0's, small shays, climaxes and heislers.  Even without transition curves stock that short looks fine going from a 438mm curve to a straight, and suffers no problems.  Compare that to a 80' car on a 40" radius curve.  As an example, a 3" wagon scales out to 21.5' in HO scale traveling around a 17 5/8" radius curve.  So even looking at a 40' car a comparative radius would be 40".  An 80' car would need an 80" radius to look as good.  I will also super elevate all my helix track.

Cheers, Mark.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi guys.

So one of the indoor things I have been working on is plotting my fictional journey on a geographical map of south Westland.  This journey joins together the towns of Jacksons bay (Tellynott) to Jamestown.  Of course, to fit the track plan along with the vertical discrepancy required to give me scope to create the mountain scenery I want along with towering rail bridges and deep gorges, my track doubles back on itself and crosses over itself several times.  To help me consider the various stops without the spaghetti getting in the way, I have been looking at them in isolation.  I also worked out a scale and plotted distances from Tellynott to Jamestown, and between water vats.  Here are three examples.

Photo 1 shows the Station at Ellery.


Photo 2 shows the station of Malcolm.


Photo 3 shows the water vat tucked in beside the bridge by the Gorge river.


This process gives some advantages.  It is much easier to mentally map the actual journey, ignoring tracks that shouldn't really be in the scene, but need to be there to make the model work.  It is much easier to locate and plot various scenic features on the model.  Some of these can even be thought of as two different scenic locations (when tracks at different heights pass the same geographical feature, but are actually a number of scale miles apart).  It is easy to draw in different possibilities without messing up my old school entire layout plan.

I used John Allen's scale miles (Smiles), and found these worked pretty well for both the geographical terrain navigated and for the distance between water vats.  This works out to 5 actual feet = 1 scale mile (Smile).  The distance from Tellynott to Jamestown is 62.5 smiles, and the distance from the start of the Tellynott yard to where the return cutoff rejoins the main line is 68 smiles.  I also intend to us 12:1 scale time.

More soon, cheers, Mark.

[cuse]

Hi guys.

So one of the indoor things I have been working on is plotting my fictional journey on a geographical map of south Westland.  This journey joins together the towns of Jacksons bay (Tellynott) to Jamestown.  Of course, to fit the track plan along with the vertical discrepancy required to give me scope to create the mountain scenery I want along with towering rail bridges and deep gorges, my track doubles back on itself and crosses over itself several times.  To help me consider the various stops without the spaghetti getting in the way, I have been looking at them in isolation.  I also worked out a scale and plotted distances from Tellynott to Jamestown, and between water vats.  Here are three examples.

Photo 1 shows the Station at Ellery.


Photo 2 shows the station of Malcolm.


Photo 3 shows the water vat tucked in beside the bridge by the Gorge river.


This process gives some advantages.  It is much easier to mentally map the actual journey, ignoring tracks that shouldn't really be in the scene, but need to be there to make the model work.  It is much easier to locate and plot various scenic features on the model.  Some of these can even be thought of as two different scenic locations (when tracks at different heights pass the same geographical feature, but are actually a number of scale miles apart).  It is easy to draw in different possibilities without messing up my old school entire layout plan.

I used John Allen's scale miles (Smiles), and found these worked pretty well for both the geographical terrain navigated and for the distance between water vats.  This works out to 5 actual feet = 1 scale mile (Smile).  The distance from Tellynott to Jamestown is 62.5 smiles, and the distance from the start of the Tellynott yard to where the return cutoff rejoins the main line is 68 smiles.  I also intend to us 12:1 scale time.

More soon, cheers, Mark.

Fantastic...I have found that having a "story" helps quite a bit in achieving realism and simulating a "functional" model railroad...even though I have no interest in operating, a plausible model is a good-looking model empire.

Nice work as always.

John

[Mark Dalrymple]

Fantastic...I have found that having a "story" helps quite a bit in achieving realism and simulating a "functional" model railroad...even though I have no interest in operating, a plausible model is a good-looking model empire.

Nice work as always.

John

Thanks, John.

It helps that I like this part of the hobby.  The article I wrote for the October issue of Narrow gauge down under was all about writing a backstory for my empire.  It was a fun article to write.

Cheers, Mark.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi guys.

With the closure of railroad-line.com I have decided to full in the blank pages between Dec 7th of 2021 and Nov 1st 2023.  I'd like a record of what I have done somewhere out there, and I always intended to 'fill in the blanks' on this thread anyway.  I'll chip away at this as time permits.  My last post before the modelers forum went down was the start of design work for Shadowlands.  I had been playing around with benchwork shapes for the first module I built for the extension to the urban part of my layout - Tellynott.

I got all excited about my new adventure into Shadowlands, so tracked down some plans and went to work on a mining project for the empire. Progress has been slow, as the plans were a bit sketchy in places - that and its one behemoth of a project with a lot of complexities.

For this I will be attempting to build a model based on an article in the Jan and Feb issues of the 1964 railroad Model Craftsman. You can find a heap of info here, including a link to the plans and a small picture on the cover of the Feb 1964 magazine. Thank you so much for all that helped with this.

http://modelersforum.com/index.php?topic=6163.0

I did a build thread on this mill as part of the 2022 challenge.  My last post before the forum shut down there was Jan31st 2022.  I'll give you the gist of what it was all about below, and if it's of interest please follow the link below.

https://modelersforum.com/index.php?topic=6179.0

My model will also be based on two photos that appeared a decade later (I'll put up the magazine issue when I locate it - I have photocopies in a folder to work from) from when Jock Oliphant built his own version of the mine from these plans. Jock's version differed in several ways, most notably with the addition of a barn over the lower tracks.

The plans were pretty good, but quite complex. They did not feature a floor plan - which they really needed! It took quite a bit of study and head scratching to work on exactly what was going on in places. I drew my own floor plan, blew the elevations up to 200% and then went about building a mock-up. For this model I felt this was REALY necessary. I would have made several mistakes on expensive modeling materials (rather than cereal boxes) otherwise - I still might! This mock-up took some considerable time to build and so I would estimate it will take in excess of 150 hours to build the actual model - not including the headframe.

I used plastic irrigation pipe I found lying under our pine hedge to cut the circles for the three flotation baths. This pipe was exactly the same diameter as that used in the plans (nice fluke). I used my hand mitre saw to make the cuts. If you check out the photo on the cover of the magazine in the link above you will see these baths are suspended on frames of differing heights and there are decks protruding half way across them from the small gables rooms. These make quite a dramatic scene.

Next up will be to mock in a bit of scenery and add a couple more details - a copula and two stacks. Then I will need to choose cladding materials, doors and windows, roofing materials, stripwood and colours.









More soon, cheers, Mark.

[deemery]

That mine looks like it's big enough to justify the rail service.  Too often our industrial buildings are too small.  But I'm trying to remember the name of the guy who built the Argo Tunnel in either Sn3 or On3....  https://argomilltour.com  

It took up the whole wall!

dave

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi Dave.

Harry Brunk did it in HOn3 as part of his Clear Creek layout.  I have his book 'up Clear Creek on the narrow gauge' which is made up from all the articles he did for the Narrow gauge and short line gazette.  A fantastic book and layout and a great inspiration to me.  It is now preserved in Cheyenne, reconfigured and named the Union Central and Northern Railroad at the Depot Museum.

I'm definitely guilty of making some of my structures too small to be served by rail.  I do try to do things like add aerial walkovers to low relief structures behind to give the illusion of there being more off scene.

Cheers, Mark.

[deemery]

I forgot Harry Brunk did that, too.  Idaho Springs, by the way, has come a long way from the first time I visited back around 1990.  Then it was a dump of a dying mining town, that decided to not sell its soul (like Central City and Blackhawk) for a casino.  But we stopped by there last June, and I was very pleasantly surprised this is reborn into a cool mountain town, with many buildings being refurbished/repainted.  We had a great lunch in a brewpub, and there were a couple other restaurants that also looked quite good.  

The "Up Clear Creek" series of articles/books are a great inspiration about doing the historical research and then capturing it in high quality models.  My set of books is on my 'inspiration' bookshelf of stuff I grab when I want to get re-motivated.

dave

[Bernd]

Jock Oliphant's (sp?) flotation plant. I remember I was going to send you the plans in MR or was it RMC, IIRC.

Great, I get to see tis all over again.

Bernd

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi guys.

The info below is from March 2022.  This was the first module I worked on in Shadowlands, but has come to be known as module 11.  My modules go from 1 - 11.  Module 11 is at one end of my continuous loop in Shadowlands, module 10 at the other.  Modules 1, 2A , 3A and 4 make up Tellynott.  Modules 2 and 3 have an A and B part, depending on which side of the backdrop we are working on/ talking about - the A parts are in Tellynott, the B parts in Shadowlands.

Well - my friend Neil and I have taken a little break from our Thursday modelling afternoons and I've taken the opportunity to start on the benchwork for Shadowlands.

Firstly - I had intended to take out the large roller door and replace with a large ranch slider/ set of bifolds/ French doors. These needed to be well insulated (double glazed) and over height. I needed an opening of 1800mm wide and 2380 high to be able to roll my layout modules out the door in the future. I had been keeping an eye out on the second hand market and it soon became obvious that these criteria did not come up that often (actually, in the time I was looking, not at all) and even second hand they were very expensive. I estimated $6,000 at a minimum, by the time I included framing, cladding and new flashings. Alternatively, I could leave the roller door on, build a dummy wall on the inside with a removable section, insulate and line for under $1,000. The downside is that I would lose 150mm (6") to the length of the room - approximately 8' squared. That's $625 a square foot. I spent a Thursday afternoon at Neil's redrawing my plan with the new tighter tolerances to see if my goals for Shadowlands were still possible and they were - so I'm going with the dummy wall and an extra $5,000.

I started work on the section on the flipside of the room division wall from the tail of the peninsula in Tellynott (module 3A). This is the flipside from where my Graves elevators, tap and die and Thorndike mills are. This new section will feature my Sheepscot limeworks kit, a tall wooden wharf and a scratchbuild based on New Zealand's Wilson's cement works (Note:  This idea was later replaced with my pulpworks).  The main line then goes around the corner back into the room housing Tellynott where it will join up to the benchwork on the back of the Tellynott part of the layout. This is the skinny section I recently uploaded a plan of and elevation, and will feature the flotation mill and Freda mine.

Photo 1 - shows a view from the right corner. The track bed is at a 4% downhill grade from the curved track at back around to the first straight section from where the main line is level. It will start its decent about 250mm before the end of what is installed so far. The Sheepscot lime works is designed (optional) to be built with a 19mm (3/4") step between the front two tracks and the back track. I mocked up the limeworks both ways and decided the change in level - even of only this small amount - added so much interest, that I had to do it that way. There will be two sets of peco right hand curved turnouts to the limeworks, one leaving the main line and then one splitting into the high track and low tracks. Both tracks have a grade, the high track about 8mm up, the low track about 11mm down. On the decent to the low tracks there will be a short straight section to avoid an S-curve, and then a set of Peco's, as yet unreleased, unifrog left hand curved turnouts which have a #2 and #3 radius curve (438mm and 495mm {17 1/4" and 19 1/2"}) (Note: I ended up buying a Walthers curved turnout in code 83, 20" and 24" radius curves.  Actually, I have ended up buying four.). This new unifrog set of points will be part of the streamline trackwork, but only come in code 100. I played around endlessly with track designs but could not achieve all that I wanted in a way I found aesthetically pleasing without the use of one of these turnouts. I fear I will also encounter this dilemma in other areas of Shadowlands as well. The alternative is to only have one lower track, shorten the limeworks barn, and use code 75 track. I have used Peco setrack to design the curves. I do so wish Peco would release their setrack in code 75!


Photo 2 - shows a view from the left end. My farther made me up another 5 sets of 'feet' for my module legs and I bought wheels for them all. I now have 6 sets of both left, enough to put wheels on all the rest of my modules. Timber is 90mmx19mm kiln dried untreated pine, $3.63 NZ per lineal metre (Note:  I love my small local timber supplier - Baier group - with all the inflation of the past two years, this timber is still less than $4 a lineal metre.  Our big stores - Bunnings and Mitre 10 mega sell the same product for almost $12 a lineal metre!). I rip this in half for the 90mmx45mm. The legs are 70mmx45mm. Usually I just buy purlins, but because of the timber shortage I couldn't source any, so I bought a piece of 6"x2" and ripped it in half. I used 16mm MDF for the track bed and intend to cover this with thin cork.


Photo 3 - And a view from the other end. I'm thinking the ceiling and pelmet to this module will have to be hung from the ceiling of the room, as I really want a view of the limeworks from the right end and so the supporting end wall will be quite short.


Thanks for checking in on my progress - its been a few years since I've worked on benchwork and I'm really enjoying myself. I was out there 'till midnight last night! Just as well it's a couple of hundred metres to the nearest house - I'm sure I'd be getting complaints about the noise from the neighbours if we were still living in the city!

More soon, cheers, Mark.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Jock Oliphant's (sp?) flotation plant. I remember I was going to send you the plans in MR or was it RMC, IIRC.

Great, I get to see tis all over again.

Bernd

Thanks, Bernd.

I wasn't going to redo the section on the flotation mill all over again, just update and fill in the gaps.  You can follow the link and read through the thread again if you're interested.

https://modelersforum.com/index.php?topic=6179.0

Cheers, Mark.