Shadowlands and Tellynott

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi guys.

I thought I would share a little trick that I find helps tremendously in getting the riser heights right. Its pretty simple so many of you may have already thought of it. Regardless, I took a series of photos to help explain.

I measure the height of my rises from the bottom of the joist to which they are to be attached. as I set may benchwork up with two L-girders and then a series of factory cut joists, this starting point is constant. I am very careful to choose the straightest timber for my L-girders. I mark out where my track bed is to go and what the height of each riser is to be and cut them as accurately as possible on my drop saw.

Photo 1 - Firstly, I take a piece of scrap timber and add a couple of screws.


Photos 2 & 3 - I then attach this to the bottom of the joist under where the riser is to go using my 12v impact driver, making sure it is pulled in nice and tight.




Photo 4 - I the add glue and place the riser in position. I drill my pilot hole on a downward angle. I clamp the two pieces of timber together with my hand while doing this, making sure not to drill through my hand!


Photo 5 - I then add the screw. As the timber is pulled in tight with the impact driver, the downward angle makes sure the riser is pulled down exactly flush with the bottom of the joist. It also helps when you put your joists fairly close together!


Photo 6 - I remove the scrap piece of timber. I then check the square and swivel on the one screw if needed. A second piolet hole is drilled on an angle upward near the bottom of the riser and a second screw put in diagonally opposite.  Hey presto!  I find this way more accurate and easier than trying to use a clamp. In all the bench work I have done so far I have only had to add tiny packers to two risers.


More soon, cheers, Mark.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi guys.

A bit more progress. I've been spending a lot of time playing with curves trying to get an atheistically pleasing shape to the module which fits within my restrictions and allows enough room for my various views. I started by moving the module into its position against the wall and then mocked up my flotation mill in the next room. I added some extensions to the benchwork there to support and used my plan and eyeometer to line up the correct angle for best viewing. I temporarily extended the two curved track beds into the next room and made sure things would fit and clearances were sufficient. I also checked the distance from the back wall to make absolutely certain that I wasn't stealing too much space. All this involved lots of crawling through the hole in the wall - as I haven't yet dismantled my temporary wall, I've just peeled back the building paper and removed the insulation. Once happy with all this I went about designing my curve fascia.

Photo 1 - shows the right hand end with the lime works mocked up. What looks like a lower track bed is the curve of the fascia.

 
Photo 2 - After a lot more designing I settled on the shape of the fascia for the rest of the module. I mocked up the ore wharf and placed a tramp steamer to the side of it. I allowed 110mm from the edge of the dock to the layout edge here, and so can adjust the length of the dock to suit a bigger or smaller tramp steamer. As much as I would love to build a 2' steamer, I think smaller will prove better, as it will help with the scale of Shadowlands.


For the mock up of the wharf area in the last set of photos I marked things out on a piece of 2.5mm MDF. Once I had sorted out the shape that worked I cut the 2.5mm MDF to the correct shape with the jig saw. I then used this as a template on the 16mm MDF. I lightly marked out the shape on the 16mm MDF and then used a large compass (a piece of long timber with a screw at one end and a series of holes into which I can insert a pencil at the other). I found centres, tangent etc and marked these nice and visibly and then carefully cut out the curves with my jigsaw. I then put the piece in position and marked all the joists for cutting. I removed and cut the 90x19mm joists with a hand saw. I then added some pine ripped to 43x19mm on top of the joists, glued and screwed, as well as a couple fanned out at the end for fixing. I then replaced the piece of 16mm MDF and marked the fanned pieces, removed and cut these. Finally the 16mm MDF was glued and screwed into position.

Photo 3 - shows the module in position with the mocked up flotation mill in next door. This is at the correct height. I allowed a little tolerance for the modules, as the floor is not quite even. I will lift and add slithers under the wheels to adjust. I had to remove one of the temporary wall studs as the layout edge went right through its centre. I have decided to remove the jamb from the wall as well to give me a little extra room (white piece of timber).


Photo 4 - a close up showing the fanned timber supports.


Photo 5 - Show the nice flowing curve. The internal curve is 880mm, then a short straight, then 670mm flowing into 1524mm then back to 670mm at the wall. I wanted the flowing curve around the lime works to protrude further. I felt aesthetically this worked better, and gave this a higher priority than the cement works site. It also means the isle width will be a little wider here.


More soon, cheers, Mark.

[ACL1504]

Mark, Cheers,

Fantastic tip on the risers. I'm all finished with bench work but I'm sure others will find your tip very useful.

Wow, the layout is really starting to look "John Allen" like and I love all your elevations.

If  I ever got to New Zealand, your place is my first stop. After landing of course. 

Great stuff Mark.

Tom

[Mark Dalrymple]

Mark, Cheers,

Fantastic tip on the risers. I'm all finished with bench work but I'm sure others will find your tip very useful.

Wow, the layout is really starting to look "John Allen" like and I love all your elevations.

If  I ever got to New Zealand, your place is my first stop. After landing of course. 

Great stuff Mark.

Tom

Hey - thanks, Tom - much appreciated!

Don't worry - if you ever make it here I'll look after you.  There are some great layouts to visit.

I used the benchwork tip throughout the layout building.  I changed to a piece of 45x19mm timber and one screw - so long as it is done up nice and tight.  I found with clamps it was trickier to get them flush with the underside of the joists when doing up, and they were inclined to slip within the drilling/ screwing process.  I also found my technique quicker.

I have a lot of John Allen and Malcolm Furlow pictures out in the barn as inspirations.  I find whenever I feel like I'm pushing the vertical boundaries too far all I have to do is look at almost any photo from those two masters and I see straight away that they have pushed things way more than I am!

Cheers, Mark.

[friscomike]

Howdy Mark, 

It looks like the eyeometer did you proud.  The curves look terrific.  

If I may ask, what is the diameter of the loop at https://modelersforum.com/index.php?msg=179731?  I'm trying to get a feel for the number of buildings I can put in my loop.

Have fun,
mike

[Rick]

Mark, your layout design with the flowing curves and elevations is amazing.
Not to mention your woodworking skills building the benchwork.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Howdy Mark,

It looks like the eyeometer did you proud.  The curves look terrific. 

If I may ask, what is the diameter of the loop at https://modelersforum.com/index.php?msg=179731?  I'm trying to get a feel for the number of buildings I can put in my loop.

Have fun,
mike

Thanks, Mike.

Yes - that eyeoneter1969 was a good model.  Starting to wear out a bit now, though...

The inside curve (remembering the outside curve is fixing for my fascia) was done using peco #4 radius curves, although I laid it in code 75 flextrack.  So that is 572mm (22 1/2")  Allowing for clearance should give you a circle with a diameter of around 1100mm (43 1/3").

Cheers, Mark.

[Philip]

Your doing some great woodworking and creating an exciting scenic layout! OM gosh!

Philip

[Mark Dalrymple]

Mark, your layout design with the flowing curves and elevations is amazing.
Not to mention your woodworking skills building the benchwork.

Thanks, Rick!

I enjoy the benchwork.  I also find it a task that is very easy to do in 15 minute increments - which is often perfect for fitting in with other household tasks.  I can zip out while the potatoes are boiling and cut and fit a couple of risers and be back in time to put on the peas and corn!  The more complex stuff you need a longer period...

Cheers, Mark.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Your doing some great woodworking and creating an exciting scenic layout! OM gosh!

Philip

Thanks, Philip!

I'm pretty happy with how things are going.  There has been a bit of thinking and a couple of redos along the way - but generally I think it will work well.  Perhaps the hardest thing is how long everything takes on a layout of this size.  I have to keep the blinders on and not go too far down any of those little rabbit holes that invariably pop up.  And I have to keep chipping away at things and finding things that keep me motivated.  This thread/ forum (and responses such as yours) is one of those things!  Hiding the fact that there is so much track in places and turning what is quite complex and over the top into a series of believable scenes is perhaps the challenge I enjoy the most.  Sometimes it takes a lot of headwork and many different mock-ups to come up with the right solution.  Along the way I have found ways to mock scenes up using different mediums - 3mm MDF fascia, rock castings, tiered stacks of polystyrene and blue paper.  There is usually a way to help you visualise a scene, at least well enough to be able to tell whether it will work or not.  And then by photographing you have a record and can try and compare different scenarios.

Thanks for following along on my journey, cheers, Mark. 

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi guys.

I've been playing with track designs around the flotation mill. To start with I finished off the module joint.  I added two rises to get to the height of the joist of the module through into the other room. I added some 140x19mm pieces of timber with square cuts to keep these rises sturdy and plumb. I added a splice to the joist in the other room to bring it out flush with the edge of the module made from 80x19 and a 7mm ply packer. Things were lined up, four screws added, and then holes drilled and 12mm coach bolts installed.  I then turned to the positioning of the flotation mill. I had three options, rotated slightly to the right as shown here, parallel to the layout edge, or rotated to the left.


Below is a close up of the mill. It was at about this stage that I went and got the actual model to help with visualization. I quickly decided that I didn't like parallel - too boring. There were pros and cons to the other two rotations. When rotated to the right  there was more scope for a nice sigmoid curve leading into to the mill. When rotated to the left the mill made more of an impact visually. After walking around the layout room and viewing these two configurations from various viewing positions I decided that the structure had to rule and needed to be rotated to the left. This places the structure at more of an angle to both the backdrop and layout edge.


So moving on from here I saw only so many possibilities - a straight turnout, a large radius curved turnout, a small radius curved turnout and a small radius Y-turnout. Freda mine starts approximately 300mm into the third module, and the main line will need to go underneath it. This means the track needs to be near the backdrop and the turnout to the flotation mill needs to leave the mainline at either the right hand end of module three or the left hand end of module two.

Photo 1 - shows the actual model positioned in the rotation I intend to keep it. The tower behind is in the approximate position of the poppet head.


Photo 2 - First up is the straight turnout. The angle of divergence of this, and both curved turnouts is 12 degrees, while the small Y-turnout is 24 degrees. The two studs side by side at the left end of the photo are where module two and three meet. The main line will enter a tunnel just after the spur leaves to the flotation mill. The main line will actually go under (or very nearly) the poppet head. The problem is trying to get a nice flowing curve to the spur (which this configuration achieves) and giving enough room for the poppet head while trying to disguise the fact that the mainline goes underneath it.


Photo 3 - Shows the configuration with the small Y-turnout. The 24 degree angle gives better clearance of the poppet head, but the curve to the flotation mill is too straight for my liking.


Photo 4 - here we are trying a small radius curved turnout from the right hand end of module three. It was after 11pm at this stage and I was running out of ideas, when it suddenly dawned on my to try using a left hand curved turnout. You can see I made a quick tunnel entrance to help me visualize. This configuration has several advantages. The main line enters the tunnel entrance appearing to go in an entirely different direction to the poppet head and it creates a nice flowing curve to the flotation mill.


Photo 5 - and here is a similar configuration using a short Y-turnout. This configuration also has the main line entering the tunnel entrance in an entirely different direction to the poppet head, gives a nice wide clarence at the front of the poppet head, and creates a lovely flowing curve at the front. I especially like the way the curve of the track opposes the curve of the layout frontage. I think I'm sold. What do you guys think?


Photo 6 - and finally a view from the right hand end showing the nice curved trackage. I wanted to show how even this far through I'm doing hours of design to try to get the best possible viewing angles and leading lines. I probably spent 2 hours last night being stumped - trying different configurations, photographing them and not really being happy with any of them. I got to the point where I said to myself "what haven't I tried?" That's when the idea of adding the curved turnout the 'wrong way' came to me. I didn't think it would work, but thought I'd give it a try. That lead to the configuration with the small Y-turnout and I went to bed very happy!


More soon, cheers, Mark.

[Bernd]

Mark,

That flotation plant is coming along nice. Quite a large structure in HO.

Bernd

[Mark Dalrymple]

Mark,

That flotation plant is coming along nice. Quite a large structure in HO.

Bernd

Thanks, Bernd.

Yes - its quite sizable, but not so big as to make the layout appear out of scale.  A lot of its size is vertical - which helps.  Sierra West's twin mills has just come up for sale on NZ'z 'trade me'.  I'm tempted, but have just made cardboard cutouts of the building footprints to test on the layout.  I fear it will overpower everything and ruin the illusion of great distance.  This is an easy way of checking such issues before handing over what is still a significant hunk of $$$.  I also don't know if I'd have the patients for that much board on board construction.  I'm quite OK with Northeastern siding - board and batten, scribed or clapboard.

Cheers, Mark.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi guys.

Carrying on around the corner...

So here I am working on the section on the flipside of the long module of Tellynott. On the other side of this wall you will find my Creamoata diorama, my aerated water diorama. Tellynott milling is at the left end and my sail makers is at the right end. On the Shadowlands side of this module is around 2.4m (6') long and between 10" and 18" wide. This was a good exercise in keeping my priorities in order. I really wanted more width for my mine here, but this would have been at the detriment of isle space. I stayed strong and will just have to alter my mine to fit the space.

Photo's 1 and 2 - show my mocking things up to get a feel for how this would look and where the track would need to go. It shows the distance that there appears to be between Freda mine and the flotation mill. On paper these seem quite close together. You can see I made up a mock up of Freda mine to help me compose my scene.




Photo 3 - here I have gone a step further and am playing with track designs. The 2.5mm board on which all my working 'mess' is sitting has been cut to fit snugly against the existing 16mm MDF. I then went about designing a nice curving frontage for the fascia. If you look closely you can see the curve drawn in pencil for the layout frontage. You can see the line just to the right of the eraser and the tape measure. I wasn't happy with this track arrangement - too many curves and too consistent. To draw those big curves I made up a compass from a piece of timber, a screw at one end and a pencil pushed tightly through a hole drilled in the timber at the other end. I then drew the 3.1m arc (10' 4") on a piece of paper, cut this out and used it as a template.  I find if I use a builders pencil with the wide part of the lead parallel with the curve of the paper I do pretty well at transferring the arc onto the MDF.


Photo 4 - a couple hours later and lots of fiddling and photographing different arrangements later and I was happy! You will note I ended up rotating the mine so it sits opposing the flotation mill. This let me take one of those wiggles out of the trackwork. I have used a large radius curved turnout to keep the curve flowing nicely and get the spur track to the mine. The hole in the backdrop is where the track joins Tellynott. The mainline trackbed is not yet glued into place. I will need to splice it to the rest of the trackbed in this area as I move forwards. There is a whole new problem to be worked through when I start on the corner module. I was considering this as I got closer with the benchwork.


Photo 5 - a view from the other end. You can see the hidden trackwork through the hole making its way underneath my J. H. Olson Chemical Works. You might remember that great quote on the side of the brickwork "no soap, so he died".


Photo 6 - and one more showing the two structures with the new rotation of Freda mine.


Next up will be building the benchwork and trackbed for this module.

More soon, cheers, Mark.

[cuse]

Great structure...Love the verticality of it - it will certainly serve the look you're after for the scene. 

Love everything you're doing

John