After a year hiatus, I'm getting back to building the layout. The original thread is here at kitforums http://kitforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=7382 When I last posted, I had broken thru the wall into the next room. Here's some pictures of the room and how things are planned. Please note I had NOTHING to do with the colors/decoration of the room. :) The trains come thru the hole in the wall and will basically follow the walls around to a turnback loop over the TV area. I will be using a short backdrop behind the benchwork. I'll just be using the room lighting, no valences here. Between the curtains, you can see the electrical box which needs to be accessible, which will lead to problems later in design.
Jeff
The first problem is when the trains come thru, they need to make a left and then a right turn. With 30 inch radius curves with easements, this left no tangent in between. I've read this can be a problem, so I angled this using my templates, and even with the easements, there's about 16 inches of straight in between them, which should be enough for my longest locos and passenger cars.
Jeff
Jeff.......
Good to have you back on the build side of the hobby.
see ya
Bob
It is always fun to have new space to fill, congratulations Jeff. We will be watching your progress. I'm pretty sure you will want to do some painting ;) . Just think of all the structures you can fit in a room that size.
By-the-way, those of us that can't attend the Narrow Gauge Convention are hoping you will give us a full report - remember we love picture.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on August 31, 2014, 04:00:20 PM
The first problem is when the trains come thru, they need to make a left and then a right turn. With 30 inch radius curves with easements, this left no tangent in between. I've read this can be a problem, so I angled this using my templates, and even with the easements, there's about 16 inches of straight in between them, which should be enough for my longest locos and passenger cars.
Jeff
Jeff
I have found that you need enough straight between the curves to handle the largest steam engine you plan to run along with the longest car you plan to run. Any place I tried to cheat this got re-engineered after track work testing :-[ .
Thanks Bob and John. I may have spoke too soon, I probably should go measure my largest steam just to make sure. :) I'll take pictures at the NG convention, but I have no way to upload them until I get home. Jaime's will be better anyway.
Jeff
After thinking how I was going to do this. Measuring. Finding the studs (occasionally missing :-[ ). Measuring again. Cutting/ripping lumber. The first piece of benchwork is in the new room. I hope the first is the hardest. :)
Jeff
for the "feet" I use these 1 1/2 PVC pipe ends. Drill a hole in the center, but a bolt with a washer thru it. Put a lock washer and nut on the top and tighten. This screws into a T drilled/hammered into the base of a 2x4 leg. It can then be adjusted up or down as needed to level.
Jeff
I like the 1 1/2" PVC caps you used for 'feet' !
Should give a much more stable base than the small adjustable 'feet' I used, but I'm too
lazy to change now!!!!
Thanks, Gnat. On the kitforums thread, I mentioned that I use an "upside down" L girder. This makes it easier for a "lone wolf" modeler to all this by him/her self. At least I think so. The first "table" is up. The leg is actually temporary, I need to attach the next section to this where the leg is, but I wanted it on the corner as it made it easier to stand this up. Another leg will be added where the section from where the roadbed is coming thru the wall meets the section that's already up.
Jeff
Finished section one and now determining the outline of the next section, using "Rube Goldberg" type confabulations. :) The area is too deep to reach comfortably, but I can't make it smaller without shrinking the straight portion of the S curve or eliminating the easements. It will be a flat industrial area, and I'll have to make a pop out to reach the corner.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on September 11, 2014, 01:53:53 PM
Finished section one and now determining the outline of the next section, using "Rube Goldberg" type confabulations. :) The area is too deep to reach comfortably, but I can't make it smaller without shrinking the straight portion of the S curve or eliminating the easements. It will be a flat industrial area, and I'll have to make a pop out to reach the corner.
Jeff
Jeff
I understand laying track work and bench work out with only one set of hands. Looks like you are doing a great job - you can never own enough clamps!
Thanks, John. The second section is up, need to put the cross pieces in. Lots of futzing figuring out the angles. This section is higher as it's a flat industrial area, so I'll use 1 inch of foam instead of 4 inches on the other part.
Jeff
Looking good Jeff.....I'll be following along! 8)
Thanks for following along, Greg. I've got the cross pieces finished. With the templates in place, there's a 21 inch straight between the curves with the easements. I'll have to resist putting a turnout in there. :) A station will fit, however.
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
The benchwork is fantastic and if you are like me you can't wait to get it finished so the track laying can start.
Tom ;D
Thanks, Tom. It will be good to get the track started in here. Today I finished the north wall benchwork. The advantage to the inverted "L" girder is that it's easier to do this stuff solo. I've run out of the 1x2s and 2x4s. I don't have a lot of 3/4 in plywood left, either. Looks like a trip to Lowe's Saturday.
Jeff
No benchwork done today. Just getting supplies and planning. Had to go to Lowe's (saw broken per usual, couldn't get the plywood). Ace hardware (bargain $5 Irwin clamps and more bolts/feet). Real lumber yard (Saw working, plywood $12 per sheet more than Lowe's, slightly better quality). Back to Lowe's (lumberyard didn't have any 2x2s). Home and had to haul it all downstairs. Only 70 degrees today but very humid. I think my shirt is still wet. :) The next section is the east wall which has it's own problem. The electrical boxes are here. The small one is only for the basement and has a contactor inside which turns on all the basement power from one wall switch. The main box is a "decorative" one offered by Square D 25 years ago which could be painted or wallpapered and blend in with your room. No one bought them (but me). The circuit breakers are hard to find (I have a few extras) and it's really big and the door can't be removed. The benchwork will end where the door opens and they'll pass on a small bridge piece to the other side. This sets the size of the benchwork on this side. The yellow level is actually where the track will pass in front of the box. This way the box can be accessed with only a 3" piece of roadbed in the way. I asked the electrician what it would cost to replace the box and it's well over $1K, so we'll just leave them. The box on the right is an alarm system and shouldn't be a problem.
Jeff
Irwin clamps for $5 is a great deal!
Hope you don't regret moving & replacing the boxes!
dave
Since the benchwork dead ends at the electrical box, I thought a large industry like grain silos up against it would look good. The sub box will need to be blocked by a building as well, probably a flat that's easily removed. I want to use a 48" curve in the corner. The corner will have a bucolic farm scene. If only some kit manufacturer made round barns. ;D I can either continue the curve all the way around or I have a #8 RH turnout here as a trial. With the turnout, each of the four leads will be at least a foot longer than without it. I think a large silo would look better with a sixteen car "yard" vs a twelve car. But the curve is a 32" radius which then will have to blend into the 48". I'm not sure how this will look or operate. I may have to build it this way and test it, then if it doesn't work, tear it out and replace it. :-\ At least I now know the bench work is 20 inches wide here and can continue building.
Jeff
Hi Dave, thanks for looking in. Those boxes aren't going anywhere. Not for $1 to $2K. :( Funny thing, they weren't supposed to be there anyway, the original plans had them in the lower basement, which was supposed to be the same level as the rest of the basement. Unfortunately, that would have made the driveway too steep, so it's three feet lower and they couldn't put the boxes there.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on September 20, 2014, 09:01:26 PM
Hi Dave, thanks for looking in. Those boxes aren't going anywhere. Not for $1 to $2K. :( Funny thing, they weren't supposed to be there anyway, the original plans had them in the lower basement, which was supposed to be the same level as the rest of the basement. Unfortunately, that would have made the driveway too steep, so it's three feet lower and they couldn't put the boxes there.
Jeff
Jeff,
Nice benchwork. I don't think having an industry in the corner will be a problem at all. Any high structure like grain elevator, silos, etc. should cover it!
Tom
Hi there,
looking good and a nice way to plan the layout and test how it will fit into the space...
Regards,Chris
Here's a picture of how I supported my layout along the wall. It's an old cabinet makers trick. I use half inch rigid electrical conduit. I flatten the ends after figuring out the length I need, drill two holes in each end and screw the top to the inside of the outer benchwork. The bottom is screwed into a wall stud. I have had non believers put their entire weight (one of them a 250+ pounder) on the benchwork and it easily supports the weight. My benchwork varies from 24 to 40 inches wide and has been up for over 25 years with no problems. This keeps you from stubbing your toes while walking along the layout with the elimination of the legs. I spaced them 48 inches apart, but I guess you could go to 32 inches if you don't trust it.
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/263-011014153447.jpeg)
Neat idea, Chet. My object in this room is to make as few holes in the wall as possible. In the other room along the long wall I used 2x4s in a similar way. I like your way better. :) It's been well over a month since my last post here, I really haven't felt like doing much of anything since our Portland trip, but last week I got back to this. The wife wasn't thrilled with the idea of the trains going over the TV (frankly, neither was I), so I'm going to try to modify the design to stop at the electrical boxes. I've been waiting for an electrician to come and look at the sub box. It has something called a contactor in it which turns the whole sub off with a wall switch. It has been buzzing more and more over the years and now is really loud, so it needs replacing. FINALLY today (I first contacted them 2 weeks ago), he came and he'll have an estimate in a couple of days. I'm not sure the hole in the wall is wide enough for "equipment overhang", so I fitted the roadbed thru the first curve to add track to see.
Jeff
I need to superelevate the curve. I use masking tape for this. 1/4 inch #6330 from 3M. Start by placing one piece, then another 1 1/2 inches from this, then another 1 1/2 inches until you've gotten to the desired height. In order not to waste tape (it's more expensive than regular masking tape), I measured today and my other curves are 4 HO inches high, so after achieving the desired height by placing stacking the strips, I'm gluing a piece of 4x6 (HO scale) strip wood around the bend. Time to do the other side...
Jeff
Be happy you're out there and not back here! Here in the in the Commiewealth, by code, you're supposed to swing a three foot arc from the center of those boxes and build nothing inside the arcs. Seems we need to put our electricians on a diet, but them's the rules. Guess it would lead to some nice, big broad curves though.
Here you're not even supposed to change out an outlet without having the electrician do it. :P He called today and the super platinum/diamond way to do this is $700. I told him I think we can go down to silver/rhinestone. ;) I got the track put down on the curve and started moving locos/cars thru it. There's no power to this section and many of the locos don't have DCC decoders yet. I think I'll need to fix that. :) The 40 foot cars fit well, the 50 footers were close, the Athearn streamline cars passed, but you could barely put a sheet of paper in between them and the wall. My biggest steamer fit both inside and outside, but the NP cars from Rapido do touch the wall. I think I'll remove a quarter inch or so here. Need to order the 50 foot roll of backdrop today as well.
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
Get a drywall saw and make the hole larger. No way I'd pay and over paid electrician to enlarge the hole. I have a reputation with the City of Orlando of not wanting to spend $ just for BS like this. $50.00 for a house painting permit, $100 for a permit to trim the trees on the City parkway.
I told them when they start paying my taxes and mortgage, they can tell me what color my house will be and how to trim the trees.
Tom ;D
Hi, Tom.
I didn't make myself clear. The electrician is fixing the buzzing in the electrical box on the other side of the room. I opened up the hole with a boxcutter. Now even the North Coast Limited will fit thru. :) Whilst waiting for the electrician to figure out what to do, which is impeding me finishing the benchwork, I'm back in the other room working on laying some track.
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
My bad, I read it wrong. I need to read more slowly! In any event, I'm glad the trains are running through the drywall cut! That is the most important issue is it not?
Tom ;D
No problem, Tom. Still waiting for the electrician to call, so I'm back in the original room finishing trackwork. The passing siding in Unnamed Town is finally finished. I stopped at the diamonds 10 years ago or so. The Zephyr is on the new track, the "test train" on the old.
Jeff
I still need to hook all the new track up to the power bus, but trains are running on it OK for now. Next I need to install one of these, my first in many years, hope I remember how. :)
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on November 10, 2014, 11:47:19 AM
I still need to hook all the new track up to the power bus, but trains are running on it OK for now. Next I need to install one of these, my first in many years, hope I remember how. :)
Jeff
Good luck with the installation - I have an number of those to install in the near future. ;D
Thanks for looking in, John. I hope I don't have any "horror stories" to relate on the Tortoise installations. Unfortunately, that will have to wait as my soldering iron's tip is broken and now too blunt to use for that. So I ordered some new tips and a smaller 12 watt iron as well today for this and DCC installations. Today I put in the last piece of track for the "branch line" in the same area the passing curve was completed. I had a "false start" the area was about 4 1/2 inches longer than one piece of flex track. Against my better judgement, I thought I'd just put a small piece in here, though it was on a curve and coming off the turnout. I measured and cut and filed and measured and filed, soldered the track and then found out one rail was too short. >:( See the first picture. I knew it would flow better and probably work better if I had the two pieces meet on the straight area, so I re did it and now the branchline is finally completed. In the second picture the back track is a live Rock Island interchange, that will not be visible beyond the turnout visible above the orange IC boxcar. The branchline will only be visible up to the closer coach car. They will then disappear behind some structures to a small two track hidden yard. I then moved the N scale layout and several pieces of plywood out from under here and into the lower basement. Now it's time to hook up the power bus to the tracks.
Jeff
Looking Good Jeff!
John
John...
A quick and dirty soldering tip can be had by purchasing a foot or two of of 12 or 10 gauge bare copper wire from a big box. The size depends on the diameter of the old tip
Then unscrew the old tip and figure out what thread is on it. Hang that thread on the copper wire and screw it into the handle. Cut off the wire to about half to three quarter inch and you're on your way.
The copper is much softer than what is on the original iron but it will work and it is really inexpensive.
After all of that there are some newer soldering rigs with a ceramic tip............. With that I'm reminded of the preacher in Blazing Saddles............... "Son....... You're on your own".
see ya
Bob
Bob,
Great tip on the soldering tip!
Tom ;D
Thanks for the idea, Bob, but the old tip was 1/8" wide, the 10 gauge wire wasn't near big enough. My new tips came, along with a lower watt iron to use on DCC installs. I was able to install my first Tortoise in many years today, and unlike the DCC install, it worked perfectly. I used Velcro on the install. It's some industrial strength stuff I'm going to try to use to hang my PVC backdrops with. The Tortoise wavers a small amount, but the throw is still true. We'll see how it holds up, I can always use the hot glue gun if it fails.
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
Congrats on the Tortoise install. The velcro works fine. I've seen a layout where the owner used velcro on the Tortoise machines and nothing failed for years. I'm sure you'll be safe.
Tom ;D
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on November 23, 2014, 09:13:44 PM
Thanks for the idea, Bob, but the old tip was 1/8" wide, the 10 gauge wire wasn't near big enough. My new tips came, along with a lower watt iron to use on DCC installs. I was able to install my first Tortoise in many years today, and unlike the DCC install, it worked perfectly. I used Velcro on the install. It's some industrial strength stuff I'm going to try to use to hang my PVC backdrops with. The Tortoise wavers a small amount, but the throw is still true. We'll see how it holds up, I can always use the hot glue gun if it fails.
Jeff
Jeff and Tom
I have 3 dozen Tortoise machines to install, and Velcro sounds like a real time saving idea. It really works? I don't have to stand on my head to put in those little screws? Have you seen any write-ups on the process?
...nice stuff....I hate installing Tortoise machines.... :'(
Thanks, Groovy. John, I read somewhere about the Tortoises being attached with Velcro, and it seems to be working fine--so far. ::) The electrician finally got the part and now the buzzing has stopped, so I'm back in the "orange room" finishing the benchwork. i've decided to try stopping the staging yard at the electrical boxes. so my "yard throat" will be on the end of the narrow benchwork already installed. I tried some turnout configurations on the benchwork, but decided to do them on the floor instead, to make sure everything "fit".
Jeff
Jeff
Good to see you working on the layout - I'm going to give the velcro idea a try. I'll let you know how well it works for me.
Jeff,
Back to some progress on the layout. I like the yard throat, looks good. I've seen layouts with velcro holding the Tortoise motors and haven't heard anything negative. Myself, I've been using hot glue and it is perfect for holding the motors.
I look forward to the yard pictures.
Tom ;D
I've got the end of the benchwork up. This will be a flat yard, basically 3/4 in plywood on top of these joists. It's a tunback loop and the yard will sit inside it. I'm "cheating" on my 30 inch radius here so everything will fit. I hope everything works with a 28 inch radius. I angled the backdrop so I can access the electrical panels if need be.
Jeff
Pretty cool...
thanx
Bob
Thanks, Bob. It's now "official" benchwork as I'm able to pile junk on top of it. ;D The 24" PVC flashing looks like it will be a "good enough" height. I added another leg for strength/stability.
Jeff
I think this is gonna work. :) I put up some hardboard backing and then attached 2 inch squares of velcro to it, the same Velcro use on the Tortoises. Then pushed the vinyl onto it. Pulling off the vinyl made the velcro separate. The edge needs work (I may glue this), and it has some "waves", but better than the aluminum in the other room. I'll let this sit a couple days and see if it stays up.
Jeff
Hi there,
looking good so far.....nice benchwork...
Cheers,Chris
Thanks, Chris. I got all the PVC up for the backdrop. had a little over two feet left over. ::) It's a bit wavy in places, partly as the Velcro has a thickness and it can't get truly flat up against the wall. I think it will look better after it's primed. I've started putting some painter's tape around the top on the one end so I can maybe get the primer on tomorrow after work.
Jeff
Perhaps I missed it in your earlier discussion, but the vinyl is glossy. How are you going to give it some tooth to hold paint, or do you have some thing else in mind?
Hi, Randy. Thanks for following along. I used some Zinsser 1.2.3. Primer on the PVC. It worked well on the aluminium flashing I used in the other room. And seemed to hold well here as well. I've put on the first coat of blue. I built a raised platform to slide along the benchwork to hold the roll of vinyl to make sure it was put on relatively level. It's now helping with the painting.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on January 17, 2015, 12:32:08 PM
Hi, Randy. Thanks for following along. I used some Zinsser 1.2.3. Primer on the PVC. It worked well on the aluminium flashing I used in the other room. And seemed to hold well here as well. I've put on the first coat of blue. I built a raised platform to slide along the benchwork to hold the roll of vinyl to make sure it was put on relatively level. It's now helping with the painting.
Jeff
Yes, I have used Zinsser 1 2 3...I'll be following along.
The clouds are finished. They are white Badger AirOpaque paint. I didn't paint as many as in the other room, as I now think I overdid them there. I airbrushed white about 1/3 of the way up for a hazy look. It's kind of uneven, but I think it'll look OK. Both ends will basically have industrial building flats on them, so I didn't have to go to the horizon. I did stop about 1/4 of the way to spray thinner thru the airbrush, but started having some splatters about 1/2 way and ran lacquer thinner thru it. I still had some splatters, especially near then end or when I was running low on paint (one disadvantage to using the cap on the airbrush, but my two spills without it override that disadvantage :) ). I think the clouds look OK, but not great. I used the stencils from New London Industries, you can see them in the one pic. Subroadbed is up next, but I'm tired out from the three days of painting and it's time to watch football.
Jeff
Jeff,
The clouds look great. I like the haze look as well.
Tom ;D
Catching this at halftime/Pats.
You may have a second career as an artist, Doctor.
Go Pats! Lets finish this up in style. :D
Thanks, gentlemen. You're being too kind. I've put in the risers and some of the subroadbed. Basically this is a turnback loop with the staging yard inside it. I'm using a big piece of cardboard to see if everything "fits" before cutting up more plywood. I have 30 inch minimum radius everywhere on the layout, but that wouldn't fit here for the loop and turnback, so I tried 28 1/2 inches and it seems to fit. The next step is to make sure the passenger cars and steamers will work on 28 1/2 inches, so I'm going to lay the roadbed and track there to see if it works. I've also arranged the turnouts to see if they'll work. I have two right hand curved Walther's turnouts which are 36/32 in radius, I may order a couple of the 32/28 if the 28 1/2 inch radius works, as they would fit a little better. Now where is the tracklaying stuff? ;D
Jeff
I should not have joked about finding the tracklaying stuff. It took me an hour to find the small nails I use to tap the Homabed into place while it dries. ::) Since this was an "experiment", I used some Atlas Code 83 track instead of the Peco, as the ties have holes nearly thru them already. Following Tom's example of laying track on the plywood, I drilled a #80 hole in the tie and used the Micro Engineering spikes to hold it in place. I then hooked up an old MRC transformer and found a non DCC E7 unit and tested passenger cars. The Proto 2000 E7 had horn hook couplers (!). I searched for my container with Kadees in it but was unable to locate it. >:( I had to pull a Kadee #5 off a freight car. The Walther's went thru well, the Rapido's overhang a lot, but they got thru OK. Tomorrow I'll get out some Brass Steamers and try them. I'm pretty tired out, but it was a pretty good day of layout building.
Jeff
I got three steamers out to test. They all fit, though the 4-8-4 only works with the tender placed in the fastener further from the locomotive, but it'll do. The 2-8-2 and 4-8-4 I bought used off ebay barely run, but I'll send them someplace to get fixed up. I also believe I have the "yard ladder" figured out. Now it's time to cut the subroadbed and fit all that together.
Jeff
The plywood piece the yard ladder is on needed to be narrowed. I also finished the subroadbed for the front part of the turnback loop. The small piece in the back needs to be done, and the riser where the clamp is needs to be shortened, but I'll save that for tomorrow.
Jeff
Hi,
Great work on the layout and that backdrop is looking fine.Nice clouds on the sky...
Cheers;Chris
Thanks, Chris. Well all the mainline roadbed is complete. The first pic shows pieces not attached so I could futz with them. Starting at the ends and meeting in the middle isn't as fun as it sounds, but it all worked. My two new levels really helped. The 2 foot digital saves trying to figure out if the bubble is really centered. I saw the small one in John's build thread, and had to get one. It really helps with the side to side leveling. Thanks, John! Next up to to fit the bridge into it's spot. Where are those darn abutments? :)
Jeff
Jeff,
I really like the main line and the location of the bridge. That will be one great scene.
Now, I've got to get one of those digital levels. I have the small one from Micro Mart already. Where did you get the two footer?
Tom ;D
Thanks, Tom. The level is an Empire e100.24. I think I got it on Amazon. It's listed today for $107. The small one is from Amazon as well, and cheaper than the MicroMark one. ;D I'm still looking for the other bridge abutment. >:(
Jeff
There are nice "level" applications for the iPhone, and presumably for Android. They're a lot cheaper than $107 :-)
dave
But Dave, there are no two foot iPhones/Androids, but the way they're going with making them ever larger, maybe soon! ;D I did think of using a phone level for small areas, but the little cube one works great. I got some work done last week laying a couple of pieces of track with the aid of the "can train" and cutting the spot for the bridge. I again had to use the Dremel and grind away some of the stone work on the abutments, but the bridge fits well now.
Jeff
The dog has been very cooperative (read sleepy) today and I've gotten some work done. I wired the curve and trains can now run into the room. If you can't decide on passenger/freight, just run a mixed train. ;D Clearances were OK and no problems with the S Curve. It can't run any further as I have no cab bus in here yet and I've taken Craig Bisgier's advice and made more power districts in case of a short. The loco is just beyond an insulated connection. I've got to get the wires that are hanging down to another circuit breaker and the reverser for the loop. I have some Homabed attached and drying in place. Next up is to fit the bridge and track in place.
Jeff
Looks great Jeff your are making good progress. I like the backdrops!
Ditto to John's comment - Lookin' Good!!!
Thanks John and David. The bridge is in, track laid up to the end of the bridge. Power district wired to the two turnouts, the next section needs the circuit breaker installed and wiring done. Got a cab bus plug in into here as well. Able to run trains in the new room, for a few feet anyway. :D That look from my assistant is her, "Wasn't I supposed to have my night time treat about thirty minutes ago?" look. ;D
Jeff
That look from your assistant says "them stinkin' trains ain't as purty as I am!".
Pay attention - sometime assistants get it right!!!
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on February 15, 2015, 08:33:16 PM
Thanks John and David. The bridge is in, track laid up to the end of the bridge. Power district wired to the two turnouts, the next section needs the circuit breaker installed and wiring done. Got a cab bus plug in into here as well. Able to run trains in the new room, for a few feet anyway. :D That look from my assistant is her, "Wasn't I supposed to have my night time treat about thirty minutes ago?" look. ;D
Jeff
Minus the couch, that could be a corner of my kitchen.
Jeff,
You are making great progress. I love the bridge area. I did order one of the two ft. digital levels from Amazon. It must be coming from the other side of the world. Amazon gave me a delivery date of the first week in March.
Tom
Thanks, Tom. Mine came within a week or so if I remember correctly. Thanks for looking in, Randy. The sofa is eventually going under where the bridge is, once the track and wiring are done there. I needed an accessible shelf for the circuit breaker and reversing circuit. It's made from scraps, but being able to slide it in and out makes wiring a lot easier. You just have to make sure to leave the wires long enough to reach. :D I made it quite large in case I need to put a booster in here eventually.
Jeff
Slick!!! As they say in the hood!
Thanks, Gnat. I wired up the two turnouts, so I am ready for the next power district. Instead of using all suitcase connectors, I used the screw terminals as there were so many wires in a small area. I did this on the previous double turnout area as well. Should make it easier to find a short. As if one would ever occur. :D
Jeff
I also got the circuit breaker and loop reverser installed. The reverser can control a Tortoise as well. Train goes into loop, Tortoise throws and train comes out of loop. This is if you want to just let the trains run without having to throw the turnouts. After installing all this and finishing the wiring where the turnouts were, I turned on the layout and nothing happened. I had pulled out one of the wires at the booster while examining how I had wired that circuit breaker. ::) I don't recommend using only one color of wire for this. The boards' holes are for 12 gauge wire. This yellow is the only 12 gauge I have. I've wired all my circuit boards with this, and I have no idea where it's from. I don't remember buying it. I will buy some white and black, now that I've used all but about 6 inches of the yellow. The loop track is slowly getting added as well. In another hour this section will be dry so I can go on to the next one.
Jeff
Loop completed and a few tracks hooked up and the darn thing works! :D The reverser throws the tortoise the appropriate direction. Need to add more feeders, but I need new electrodes for the soldering station. I think I've worn these out. I know there's some more here somewhere, but I can't find them. ::) Need to start laying the turnouts for the yard and figure out how I'm going to put the tracks in. The peninsula is too wide to reach across. Probably need to do it in sections and make some removable for maintenance. This train sitting so high off the floor is kinda scary. Only derailments is if the train is going backwards at warp speed over one of the curved switches in the back. We'll work on that.
Jeff
Looking good Jeff. It always feels good to get a section done.
Wow. Pretty amazing stuff. Youze (that's the Scranton version of y'all) layout builders make me feel like such a slacker. :P Keep up the great work!
No reports here for some time, but slowly work has been getting done. I had to cut/fit plywood for the yard area. I'm using a thin homasote product from http://cascaderailsupply.com/ for the roadbed. I've used the Homabed/California roadbed stuff in the past, but sometimes you have to wait forever for him to send it. Cascade rail had the sheets to me within two weeks. Part of that wasn't his fault, the USPS sent it from Seattle to Pittsburgh to Des Moines to me. :o I've painted it black to keep the dust down. It's glued to the plywood and I then put screws in it to hold it until it dries (it warped from the paint) and then pull the screws out. That's why the pieces have the "bullet holes". :) All the wire feeders for the loop are finished as well. Next I had to make sure all the curved tracks for the yard ladder would fit. Who's bright idea was it to have the yard ladder tracks curved anyway? ;D
Jeff
i'm trying to keep the curves on a 30 inch minimum radius if possible. so far so good. I'm not gluing the tracks down here, I'm using Tom's method of drilling a small hole in the ties with my Dremel and using Micro Engineering small spikes. It's working very well. Thanks, Tom! The light is so I can look into the square holes on the "sweep sticks" to see where to drill and where to put the spikes. The light blue handled tool has "T" grooves in it to hold the spikes. I've got five of the seven lead tracks done. The spikes stick up a little, but I think it's OK. I doubt I'll ever paint/ballast this yard, but I think they'd disappear with some paint.
Jeff
Looks great Jeff...I love the look of a curved yard.
John
If I was watching the Red Sox, I couldn't post this dumb question.
What radius are you using for the curve in the yard? Seems to me it needs to be pretty broad to be able to align couplers without having to do manual alignments.
Now, where is that dunce cap when I really need it?
Chip, I am watching the Red Sox game, and they look pretty sad today. The yard is so deep I hope not to have to do much coupling/uncoupling, I'll probably use the front tracks for building trains, but the yard itself is just a visible staging yard. With 30 inch minimum radius curves. :)
Jeff
Jeff,
The yard looks great and I'm happy the suggestion/method I use for the track worked for you!
Tom ;D
Finally finished with the lead tracks. I can park a train somewhere other than the main line or my one passing siding. :D Next up is adding the area to the right of the tracks. I think I'll have to do a narrow section, as I want to be able to lift out most of this area of the yard if needed for maintenance, etc.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on May 19, 2015, 06:07:06 PM
Finally finished with the lead tracks. I can park a train somewhere other than the main line or my one passing siding. :D Next up is adding the area to the right of the tracks. I think I'll have to do a narrow section, as I want to be able to lift out most of this area of the yard if needed for maintenance, etc.
Jeff
Amazing, Jeff. Your "track crew" has really been laying down some rail. Looks great. Should be able to stack quite a few cars in that yard.
Jeff
It's looking good - your making great progress now that you have a crew working with you.
Jeff,
I really like that yard on a curve ! 8) It reminds me of the Grand Truck Western "Elston" yard in Chicago that had 11 tracks going North & South at 55th & St. Louis Street and all the tracks turned at 51st Street into a East-West Direction, just like you modeled the 90 degree turn. 2 other tracks went straight North of the curve into the Sante Fe yard . Remember siting there in my car eating a pizza, drinking Pepsi, watching the tower operator making the crossing gates go up & down, since a Chicago street ran right thru that yard and listening to the cars screeching there wheels going in and out of those curved yard tracks as they switched cars, and other trains arrived and departed . The Grand Trunk even had their caboose track on the curved tracks at 51st street with several neat yard structures there too. All the trains had to be broken apart to keep the road crossing from being blocked there at the start of the 11 track curve, and at times the gates were down for 15 to 20 minutes ! If I find any old photos, I will let you know.
Tom
Thanks, Bob, John and Tom. Tom, I'll bet drivers were not happy when the gates were down that long. :) Again, the benchwork is 60 inches (152 cm) at the widest point here. I can't reach across it, so I'm going to make some liftouts. I don't want the tracks going at angles over the lift outs, almost all the curved tracks are at nearly a right angle, just the two back tracks wouldn't work, so I cut things to fit these two tracks. Before and after are pictured below. I think the rest can go in as one piece, but it'll be a bit heavy. I'd better eat my Wheaties when I want to lift it out. :D
Jeff
The yard track on the far right is short, but it's only to hold a locomotive. The loop reverser automatically controls the tortoise on the turnout leading into the loop. There's no button to otherwise throw the switch. I can pull the loco out of here over the boundary of the power district and the loop to reverse the turnout. I have one on the other end of the loop to change the tortoise in the other direction. The next short track on the right is for the Pioneer Zephyr, it's only four cars long and should fit fine.
Jeff
The major yard piece is in place. This will hold all but two of the yard tracks. I'm not adding any of the tracks/electrical at this time. I want to get fascia in place on the layout in this room. The room is finally tidied up after almost ten months of work. If I can get the fascia on and have my wife make some "curtains" to hide under the layout I think it'll look even better. My next task is to clean the OTHER room and start the peninsula. This will involve building a wall and finally finishing the ceiling after all these years.
Jeff
Jeff
It's looking great. I would have trouble with the chair in the room ;) . To much sitting and looking at what to do next.[size=78%] [/size]
I really love to see "whole train room" photos, to see lighting, flooring, etc, etc. And when they're not completely done, it makes me feel better with my own "pink foam empire" :-)
dave
Thanks John and Dave. Speaking of lights, the overhead fluorescents need to move. Laying out the curves, etc I can fit a nine track yard in the space. The turnouts are straight, but the yard curves again. ::) The trains pass between the door and the fire extinguisher (here if Tom ever visits :D ). The 1 x 4 is where the wall will need to be built. I'm going to start with the light fascia over the edges of the layout. I can then do the drop ceiling on the aisles and move the lights where they need to go. I won't use the overhead fixtures for "layout lighting", but I'd like more light in here to work with while I build the wall, then the backdrop. Then will follow the benchwork. I estimate this will take at least another decade to complete. ;D
Jeff
For what it's worth, I recently replaced most of the overhead fluorescents with LEDs, and I'm -very happy- with the results. I got a reasonable deal (LEDs are still expensive) on 4000k fixtures, which is about the color I was getting from my combo of warm-white and cool-white tubes. But I think the LEDs won't have the problem the older lights had with UV fading, they run cheaper, last longer (no annoying flicker) and come on quicker.
dave
My 2 cents on the lighting - use LED's - I am also replacing all of the fluorescent and incandescent lights with LED's in my layout room. I'm changing them out as they burn out. The fluorescent lights that were suppose to last 10 years are burning out in 2. I hope the LED's last as long as advertised - the last ones that I bought said 22 years.
One last point - I would recommend the same lights for working on the layout as you will be using for display. Especially when you start working on scenery. Colors change a lot with lighting.
Thanks, guys. We're changing out 3 fixtures here, one a chandelier that's 20 feet up. I can't change out the bulbs if they burn out, so I got some of the Cree 100 watt replacement bulbs. The light is indistinguishable from incandescent to me. I'll be using these over the layout as they are the same color as the fluorescent ones I'm now using.
Jeff
Got three pieces of the fascia/light supports put up today. Had to get 24 2x4s and haul them in on our first really hot/humid day. Between that and fixing a hose and mowing, I'm pooped! :) The short piece at the end will have an angled piece put in between in and the next one.
Jeff
Great thread Jeff, nice work!!
Thanks for checking in Longhorn! Since the plan has changed in the 10 plus years since I started, part of the overhead ceiling/fascia support has to be removed. You can see where I had to cut the bottom with a hand saw, as my battery powered sawzall no longer functions, it's like working in the Dark Ages! :) I then cut/ripped a 2x4 to fit. In the second fit the cutout is complete and the ceiling support replaced. The 2x4 on end will be painted white to match the ceiling. I'm going to do the same for the end of the curved "Bellina Drop". The two light/ceiling support ends are matched up as well.
Jeff
After posting the picture, I noticed the near supports didn't have the "light bar" on them. so I cut some more 2x4s and attached them. Fitted the piece for the other end as well. This portion of the build is now completed. I think I'm going to forego the large overhead fluorescents instead of moving them. So I'll do the lighting of the peninsula next so I can use them for light when I build the wall.
Jeff
i've started the lighting portion and the suspended ceiling. The first pic shows how I did the rest of the layout with octagonal boxes and the classic single bulb porcelain fixture. Cutting, stripping, attaching, twisting wires and then applying wire nuts and the crimps on the outside of the boxes was a pain. On a layout tour, I saw someone used these small porcelain fixtures in the next two pics. I merely cut the insulation off of the wire where the screw is and screw it on, put the top on and off to the next one. Much easier and quicker.
Jeff
Jeff,
You are moving right along and I definite like your lighting system. Quick and easy is the way. Looks very clean and functional. Great job.
Tom ;D
..wow..that fascia work is impressive....
Thanks for the positive comments, guys. I'll be you're anxious to get started on a new layout Mr. Groovy. ;D Well the lights work and now it's time to wait for the bulbs to arrive. I REALLY have to remember to turn the power off when I'm playing with the wires. ::) I'm going to get started on the wall which will form the "center" of the peninsula.
Jeff
Jeff, you might want to staple plastic sheeting between those joists. You'll be (unpleasantly) surprised by how much dust wanders down from an open ceiling.
dave
Jeff......
Dave is correct. The best choice would be sheet rock but that has the appearance. Of serious work. Short of that, sheet plastic is a good idea. Try and find white plastic sheet. It will block the view of the joists and, more importantly, it keeps the light moving in the room.
See ya
Bob
Thanks for the input Dave and Bob. I will use suspended ceiling materials to cover this area. I cut the pieces to fit around the valances/walls as in this picture. The "tiles" are fiberglass backing with a plastic cover. Unlike the usual ones they make no dust.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on July 03, 2015, 08:03:49 AM
Thanks for the input Dave and Bob. I will use suspended ceiling materials to cover this area. I cut the pieces to fit around the valances/walls as in this picture. The "tiles" are fiberglass backing with a plastic cover. Unlike the usual ones they make no dust.
Jeff
Now those tiles are what I -should have- used on my own layout room!
dave
It works pretty well, Dave. I got one wall built, but then decided to put up the ceiling. I'm running out of materials for this, and Armstrong doesn't make the same tiles nor grid work that I'm using. They used to make "cheap" and "premium" grids, and of course have cut out the "cheap" line. The other will work fine, though the edge pieces are 1/8 inch wider. I've got the ceiling done except where the peninsula lies. I forgot about the heat duct/vent, and needed to make a "Rube Goldberg" contraption for it to work, as my previous work blocked being able to drop the ductwork. I need to figure out how many more ceiling tiles/grid pieces I need, and build the other wall.
Jeff
Looking good Jeff. Nice work!
John
Quote from: Cuse on July 11, 2015, 07:02:45 PM
Looking good Jeff. Nice work!
John
Ditto!
Tom ;D
Good decision on the fibreglass tiles. I should have done that.
Thanks for looking in, guys. I got the other wall finished. Yes, I know the studs are sideways. :) The depth between the aisles here is only a little over 48" and since one side has a yard that'll eat up space, the other is only 16 inches, the extra 2 inches of depth should make it easier to scenic (like I'll ever have scenery ;D ). Decided to put up the L girders on the walls next so I can use it as a rail to balance the masonite on. Then I'll put on the PVC backdrop and then finish with the ceiling. I'm drawing the wood structure for the end of the peninsula on the floor so I can measure and cut those pieces before installing them. Last time I kinda built it in place and had to measure and cut crazy angles--it took a lot of time. Hopefully this will work better.
Jeff
I got the hardboard backdrop installed on one side, and started on the other. Trying to cut the floppy 4x8 sheets in a table saw is a lot of work. One time it doesn't pay to be a "lone wolf" modeler, having someone else to help with these would have been nice. Two more to cut for the other side, but I'm tired out for today. I'll cover these with PVC sheet plastic that I'll actually paint the sky on. Too bad those nice printed backdrops don't come in 48 inch heights. They'd been too expensive to cover all my backdrops, anyway. ::)
Jeff
Other side is done as well. Now I have to figure out what kind of glue to use for the plastic, I suspect either PVC pipe or MEK will work. Will need to get some MEK at the hardware store tomorrow.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on July 26, 2015, 11:17:38 AM
Other side is done as well. Now I have to figure out what kind of glue to use for the plastic, I suspect either PVC pipe or MEK will work. Will need to get some MEK at the hardware store tomorrow.
Jeff
I'd suggest Weldbond contact cement. See http://www.weldbond.com/application_uses (http://www.weldbond.com/application_uses) and http://www.weldbond.com/files/Weldbond%20Product%20Guide%20English%20%28July%202009%29.pdf (http://www.weldbond.com/files/Weldbond%20Product%20Guide%20English%20%28July%202009%29.pdf) Get a small bottle of this and try it, before you dig into the solvents.
If you end up using any kind of solvent (PVC, MEK, solvent contact cement), you should probably consider using an appropriate solvent vapor gas mask/respirator and some sort of powered ventilation to clear the fumes out of the room. MEK is nasty stuff! (http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927358 )
dave
Thanks for the Weldbond suggestion, Dave. I'll get some to try out.
Jeff
Jeff
You have been very busy - great looking progress. I have one suggestion based on a lesson learned on my layout. Take a look at your ceiling fixtures and your plan for scenery
and think about how you are going to replace the light bulbs when the layout is finished. Let me just say I wish I had spent more time thinking about that with my layout. I spent the day today moving some light fixtures and adding more. I'm not saying that I see a problem with what your doing just think through what's going to be under the light fixtures when it comes time to change the bulbs.
Thanks for looking in, John. All the bulbs are able to be reached from the aisle, they're all screw ins just behind the valance. I tossed all the fluorescent fixtures (except the one in the airbrush area). While I'm waiting for the Weldbond to try to see if it will work with the plastic backdrops, I'm jumping a step ahead and started to figure out how to get the trains to the new peninsula. I've opened up the backdrop on the old section. Just before the switch is where the "west" end of the layout has ended for over 10 years. I need to get this thru the "utilities", the water heater is just to the right in this picture and onto the new peninsula.
Jeff
Dave, I checked Methyl Ethyl Ketone a few years ago; neither the Canadians nor the European thought it hazardous then. It appears thinking has changed a bit and now there are warnings of neurotoxicity. But when choosing a solvent cement, I'd personally rather work with MEK than Methylene Chloride, a known carcinogen.
I think this is a good reminder that many of our hobby paints/solvents/cements are toxic. And remember that everything is carcinogenic in California. :) I'm more concerned with the MEK as the area I'm working in has no windows. The Weldbond didn't work. I've let it dry almost 3 days and the pieces came right apart, the glue is still wet. I used some PVC glue which has held better (one of it's ingredients is MEK). I'm going to have to get some straight MEK and try it. I'll open the only windows in the basement and run some fans and my airbrush booth to ventilate it.
Jeff
Jeff, sorry my suggestion didn't work!!! Unfortunately that's the problem with a lot of water-based glues, if there's no air, the glue never cures. (Same problem gluing styrofoam with water-based glues.)
And you know the fundamental finding? "Research causes cancer in laboratory animals."
dave
That's OK, Dave. I like trying new things. It says it works on glass, it shoulda worked on the styrene. Anyway the MEK worked well and the first side is finished. I've got fans and the airbrush booth going to get the smell out. Plus I knocked over a bottle of Windex and didn't notice it wasn't quite closed so I had a blue river and lake on the floor. :( Between the ammonia smell and the MEK, I should be trippin'. 8) The seams are pretty good, I'm not sure my Zinzer primer will cover them, and I may try a small amount of squadron putty in them and sanding them off before painting.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on August 06, 2015, 03:36:23 PM
That's OK, Dave. I like trying new things. It says it works on glass, it shoulda worked on the styrene. Anyway the MEK worked well and the first side is finished. I've got fans and the airbrush booth going to get the smell out. Plus I knocked over a bottle of Windex and didn't notice it wasn't quite closed so I had a blue river and lake on the floor. :( Between the ammonia smell and the MEK, I should be trippin'. 8) The seams are pretty good, I'm not sure my Zinzer primer will cover them, and I may try a small amount of squadron putty in them and sanding them off before painting.
Jeff
Chemicals and dust. Sounds like a good combination. Bet this alone makes you glad you're not a smoker.
Thanks for looking in, Chip. As usual, the more I worked, the worse my skills got. The next to the last piece just wouldn't quite lie flat, and the last joint is terrible. I had it all lined up and put on the MEK, you only get a quick shot to bring them together and there's a gap. I've filled them all with Tamiya putty (the only kind I had), the other 3 joints are fine, but the last one will take a few layers. :P The putty smells worse than the MEK! I'm cutting the holes in the backdrop for when the tables are built.
Jeff
Cut the holes in the backdrop where the choo choos come through. The turnback loop starts where the turnout is on the "bridge" near the water heater. This needs to be removable as I think this is the 4th one we've had in 24 yrs here. :P Second coat of putty is on and it will require at least one more. It needs to dry totally for 24 hrs, so no primer coat today. :(
Jeff
Jeff
You are moving right along - looks great. It is amazing how many things you need to think about when your building a layout around all the stuff we but in our basements - like water heaters that need to be replaced.
Jeff,
You are making some great progress on the layout. I like how you installed the backdrop. However, I'm just guessing you have easy access to the gas water heater just in case it needs replacing.
Tom ;D
Thanks Tom and John. The water heater has access from the front for changing it out. Kinda like when they put them in a closet. The water softener is behind it and has some access from that side as well, but the sides are blocked by backdrops. I've got the first coat of blue and and it looks pretty good. Second coat later today.
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
WOW, the backdrops look fantastic. Great job! All thumbs up on that project.
Tom ;D
Glad you found an adhesive to work, and the fumes didn't kill you :-)
dave
It's really starting to take shape.....great work Jeff. 8)
Thanks, guys. The cloud painting is NOT going well. My Iwata airbrush will paint a cloud and then stop spraying. Air comes out but no paint. I'd clean it, it'd paint a cloud and give up again. It's like the needle can't come back far enough, if I pull on it (Iwata has an open back), it sprays, but it takes two hands. I finally gave up yesterday. Thought I'd try a bigger nozzle (the stock is .35mm and they sell a .5), but Dick Blick didn't have any .5 needles. It splattered too much using the .35 needle with the .5 nozzle, not surprising. Today I got out the old Aztec. It went about eight feet before needing to be cleaned, which takes some time. I'm letting the parts dry before having at it again. At least one side is complete.
Jeff
Thank the Maker that's done. Made it the rest of the way without another cleaning. Like the other room, I made less of the clouds as I think I overdid it in the other areas of the room that you see. Now to finish the rest of the suspended ceiling before building the benchwork.
Jeff
After about 14 years, my room prep is FINALLY finished. The ceiling is complete. Benchwork time! ;D
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on August 20, 2015, 01:14:53 PM
After about 14 years, my room prep is FINALLY finished. The ceiling is complete. Benchwork time! ;D
Jeff
Jeff,
Congrats on getting this portion done. Now, when will we see benchwork photos? ;D
Tom ;D
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on August 16, 2015, 12:04:38 PM
Thank the Maker that's done.
Looks good really good Dr. Jeff!
When I read that first comment real fast I thought it said "Thank the Maker
that's Mark
done. Guess you know how my day is going. :P
Benchwork photos now, Mr. Tom Smarty Pants. ;D ;D ;D
Jeff
Quote from: ReadingBob on August 20, 2015, 01:30:27 PM
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on August 16, 2015, 12:04:38 PM
Thank the Maker that's done.
Looks good really good Dr. Jeff!
When I read that first comment real fast I thought it said "Thank the Maker that's Mark done. Guess you know how my day is going. :P
And Jack Daniels was his tool holder/assistant. :D
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on August 20, 2015, 05:09:51 PM
Benchwork photos now, Mr. Tom Smarty Pants. ;D ;D ;D
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
You are fast my friend. I used to be that fast! Looking very good.
Tom
After nearly a month hiatus for our two trips, Section Two of the benchwork is finished. Three more to go.
Jeff
Quote from: ACL1504 on August 21, 2015, 07:04:28 AM
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on August 20, 2015, 05:09:51 PM
Benchwork photos now, Mr. Tom Smarty Pants. ;D ;D ;D
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
You are fast my friend. I used to be that fast! Looking very good.
Tom
I used to be that fast also.
Now, I'm just kinda' half fast. 8)
Another section finished. Approx 24" centers here as this will be covered in plywood for the staging yard.
Jeff
Wow Jeff - you are moving right along. All that time in airports must have provided some inspiration.
Thanks, John. The travel posed more exasperation than inspiration. >:( Section four is completed. Need an angled piece yet where the 30 inch radius curve is posed. Next is the last section, a half circle on the end. It will be the same height as the outer portion of the benchwork, the just completed section will be a yard, covered in plywood, so no risers were needed, thus it's higher than the rest of the layout.
Jeff
I've started the peninsula end. I'm using 1/8 in hardboard here. I used this on the last penninsula and it worked well. On that one half is done in 1/4 plywood, but I found it didn't curve as much as I liked and did the other half in the hardboard. There I built the frame and then applied the strips, here I'm building up the strips first,gluing them together with Titebond. Adding the second strip made it much more rigid, and I'm sure adding the others (5 or 6 total) will work well. I also cut some 3/4 in plywood for the yard area, as I had to start cluttering up the benchwork. ;D I had a 4x8 sheet here from many years ago (when I could lift it down the stairs, something I don't think I would be able to do myself now). It was quite difficult to maneuver into the table saw to cut. That's why I buy pre-cut 2x8 sheets now. :)
Jeff
Nice curves ;) ;) ;)
Quote from: Janbouli on October 01, 2015, 06:30:13 PM
Nice curves ;) ;) ;)
Same thing I told the Babe last night! ;D ;D ;D ;D
8) 8) 8)
The (half) circle is now complete. Time for roadbed.
Jeff
Sometimes the "plan" doesn't quite work out. I have a couple of brass bridges I'd like to use here. Initially I thought the Pin connected bridge could be used right after coming out of the peninsula turnback curve, as it is when I planned this on the floor. Then there would be a switch for a passing siding. This whole area will be a town and there will be a station here, possibly on the 90 degree curve at the other end. However, I also wanted some other sidings for some of the bazillion FSM and other kits to occupy. I also wanted another interchange with another railroad here. The passing siding would be long enough, but it all just seemed to crowded. The second pick has a pink yardstick where the interchange RR diamond will be. This seems to fit better.
Jeff
I also have a two track pony truss. It will fit well on the other end of the peninsula. It will go where it's sitting or where the two turnouts are on the left foreground. I think the 48 inch radius curves look better here than the 30 inch. I'll fidget some of the turnouts around to see what seems to work and leave this a couple of days to see how I like it.
Jeff
Jeff,
I'm loving your room and available space. I should be happy with what I have but I tend to always find a need for more space. Great job on the sky backdrop.
Tom ;D
Thanks, Tom. I have built the "bridge" to the peninsula. It goes past the water heater and must be removable. Basically there are slots on the bottom that fit in grooves on the edges so it stays in place, but can be lifted out.
Jeff
The original yard plan was tried out on the floor. I've changed it to add a second "ladder". This isn't a working yard, just a staging one and this will increase the length of half the sidings. I had to test the curved turnout placement with a temporary backdrop in place and it fits fine. It's all coming together finally from what I conceived to what will really work. I don't have enough turnouts to finish, may not have enough flextrack nor homabed and probably don't have enough plywood, either. But I'll use up what I have before ordering more so I don't have a lot of extra stuff left over Hard to believe, but some of these turnouts have been sitting in a drawer for many years, and I'm finally using them!
Jeff
Jeff,
I like the idea of the double staging yard, at least it looks like a double staging yard. I had a few turnouts in the drawer for 8 years+ before I got around to using them. Looking good Doc.
Tom ;D
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on October 11, 2015, 08:23:08 PM
Thanks, Tom. I have built the "bridge" to the peninsula. It goes past the water heater and must be removable. Basically there are slots on the bottom that fit in grooves on the edges so it stays in place, but can be lifted out.
Jeff
With a little torch work, you could build a very realistic car wash rack there on the left. ;D
Thanks, guys. Chip, I'm more worried about the water heater going on the fritz than using it as a wash rack. :) This Rube Goldberg contraption is to lay out the 48 inch double track curve. Cutting this stuff out is my least favorite modeling chore. Okay maybe wiring is. ::) It's loud (I wear hearing protection). It's dusty (even though I hold a vacuum up to the work so I can see the line) and I'm always afraid I'm gonna cut my finger off. Well the curve pieces are cut out and no injuries. So far. Knock on wood.
Jeff
The double track 42 inch radius curve subroadbed is in place. Dog has been pretty cooperative, but I'm getting the stare. :o Time for walk #2.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on October 18, 2015, 11:56:24 AM
Thanks, guys. Chip, I'm more worried about the water heater going on the fritz than using it as a wash rack. :) This Rube Goldberg contraption is to lay out the 48 inch double track curve. Cutting this stuff out is my least favorite modeling chore. Okay maybe wiring is. ::) It's loud (I wear hearing protection). It's dusty (even though I hold a vacuum up to the work so I can see the line) and I'm always afraid I'm gonna cut my finger off. Well the curve pieces are cut out and no injuries. So far. Knock on wood.
Jeff
How are you cutting this? A roto-zip 'blade/bit' in the drill?
dave
Dave, the curved pieces are cut with a jigsaw. The straight pieces are cut on a table saw and/or chop saw.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on October 22, 2015, 04:48:45 PM
Dave, the curved pieces are cut with a jigsaw. The straight pieces are cut on a table saw and/or chop saw.
Jeff
Ah, OK. I tried using a RotoZip, it didn't work as well as I thought it would. (I only saw drills in the photo where you show your trammel.)
dave
I usually use a sabre saw for cutting roadbed. After drawing the cut lines, I set the sheet on blocking on the barn floor and start at one edge. Sometimes I can complete a small piece without stopping to move the blocking, but I've never found this method risky to fingers or toes. I doubt it's much quieter than the jigsaw, but the relatively coarse blades I use make small chips rather than dust.
Hi Zypherus:
Nice job so far. Hope you don't haver to get that water heater out of there anytime soon. I does look pretty new though.
Karl
Thanks for stopping by James and Karl. I hold a shop vac in one hand and the jig saw in the other. I clamp the wood to hold it steady. I have managed once to cut into the shop vac, but not my fingers. Knock on wood. I hope that water heater lasts a long time, it's only three years old, but we had one once that didn't make it to four. >:( I have completed all the subroadbed. Unlike my earlier efforts, Since there were two large curves that wouldn't need moving of the joists if there were changes, I cut risers and placed them under the roadbed (picture one), and screwed the roadbed in thru the top. The theory was if the pieces were square and the table was level, the roadbed would be level. I was amazed to find it worked! On other sections I used "L" shaped risers which could be driven from below (picture two). These make it easier if the track is on to make changes. The L shaped ones require much more futzing to get them level left to right and front to back. I didn't notice until I was resizing picture two that a yellow rubber piece from one of my clamps was on it! It's probably been there for 2 years. :o Next up is the Homabed roadbed. I hope I have enough to finish this.
Jeff
The subroadbed work on the peninsula was a bit more difficult as I had to make sure both ends matched. I was surprised to find out it fit nearly perfectly the way I'd cut out the pieces. Where the curve meets the plywood for the staging yard was 3 mm too low, so I cut the risers slightly shorter to make a small grade (0.2%) to correct this.
Jeff
Jeff,
I love the look of the 48 inch curve. A really great looking view of the railroad.
Tom ;D
Thanks, Tom. When I built the "bridge" next to the water heater, I placed a 1 x 2 in the center for strength, forgetting I'd later need to put a Tortoise switch machine on this. :o I had to offset the Tortoise, something I've not done before and wasn't sure it would work. I cut a slot in the homasote roadbed , drilled the hole, marked the wire where it would need to be bent, bent the wire (I use .039 wire for this, not the one Circuitron gives you), put everything in place, hooked it up to power, and it works fine. ;D
Jeff
Nice recovery, Jeff!
dave
Almost all water heaters are made with replaceable magnesium anodes installed through fittings in the top of the tank. But few plumbers want to keep track of their age and replace them. The money they make replacing a heater may have something to do with it, but the maintenance is small money for the trip to your house. Ask around to see how long they last in your area and write a note to future you on the heater...
Thanks, Dave. Interesting info, James, I'll have to look into that. I ran into another dilemma while figuring out the trackwork where the pony truss is supposed to go. The "two track" truss is very narrow. In the second pic, The bridge tracks don't clear an NMRA gauge on either side, and the boxcars are very close together. I trimmed off the ties in the third pic, to move the rails closer to the walkway side, but there's still less than 2 inches distance on center of the rails. I need this wider as this is a passing track which goes into a curve a couple feet beyond the bridge. I won't use the truss here, I'll use two 90 foot deck girder bridges instead.
Jeff
Required track centers depend a lot on the equipment and curve radius. On straight track, 13 feet should handle anything except certain steam locos whose designers widened the cylinders to give the lead truck more room to swing. On a curve, or less than a carlength from the end of a curve, check full-size (80+ foot long) passenger cars, steam loco pilots/boilers and freight cars 60' or longer (none in my era, 86' box cars, intermodal flats starting about 1963).
I added the triangle piece in the bottom left of the pic where the curve will go and cut all the homasote pieces for the yard. Kinda like making a jigsaw puzzle. I've painted them on the bottoms and will put them in place and paint the tops. The paint will keep the dust down.
Jeff
That's one unpleasant chore completed. :) I got some black paint on the backdrop, but it's a staging yard, the trains will block the view. ;D
Jeff
Jeff
You have been busy! It looks great!
Jeff,
It is looking good and as John said, "you've been busy". I had the same Overland two track Truss Bridge and had the same issues. I sent mine back to Overland in exchange for two cantilever signal bridges.
Tom ;D
Thanks, John and Tom. I started laying the track into the yard area. This piece of track will be used to turn trains and continuous running. I needed a couple of gentle curves here and had to test clearances with the North Coast Limited passenger cars and my longest Brass loco, a 4-8-4. Everything fits, no derailments.
Jeff
I've had unpleasant surprises from 8-coupled steam in tight places: Forward was fine, light or under load. Backing under load made the cab kick out to the side much more than backing light.
I'll watch out for that, James. I've superelevated the curve around the end of the peninsula. To do this I use 3M 6330 1/4 inch masking tape. I step it in 1 1/2 inch increments up to a 4 inch height. Then use 4x6 stripwood for the balance of the curve. After taking the picture, I saw the stripwood didn't curve as much as I'd hoped, so I went back and fixed it. I use super glue with accelerant to attach the stripwood. I like the four inch height, it shows enough superelevation without the trains leaning too much. I didn't do the interior curve in the yard area as it's a yard, and I probably won't do the 90 degree curve on the peninsula as a station will sit there. All the passenger trains on the system will stop there, and it will be a reason to slow the fast freights down.
Jeff
Jeff,
Looks good. I super elevated the mainline of the old layout but not on the new one. Your location is the perfect spot for the elevation to be visually. In HO scale it doesn't take much for it to look natural.
Tom
Thanks, Tom. I got so excited with the tracklaying, I forgot about the last three feet of homabed. It's glued/drying in place now. Time to get ready for Thanksgiving brunch. Afterward, if I'm not too stuffed, I'll attach the curve and the next pieces of track. The "test train" is on the completed portion. No bumps nor derailments. ;D Sorry about the Coke Zero can, you Diet Pepsi drinkers. 8)
Jeff
Jeff,
It sure is looking good. I like your canned weights. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tom ;D
Jeff
I'm really enjoying watching your layout come to life.
Thanks, John and Tom. After twelve plus years, it's gold spike day!
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on December 01, 2015, 10:54:45 AM
After twelve plus years, it's gold spike day!
Jeff
Jeff , you have no idea how much better I feel after reading this.
Thanks, Jan. I've run the minimum amount of feeders to get the whole section working and the test train has been run several times to be sure the DCC Specialties PSX-AR reverser works. It throws the Tortoise and reverses correctly. Huzzah! More feeders to be added. Many more. :o
Jeff
Feeders completed today. Got the Pioneer Zephyr out to make the first end to end run and return. Unfortunately the LokSound Decoder which I installed, which seemed to work, until I put the shell back on, then it didn't work any longer. :( Put a non sound one in and it runs OK. Some pics from the first run.
Jeff
Looks great. Nothing like running that first train.
Congratulations on the first run! Looks great.
Pop the bubbly Jeff.....congrats on the first run! 8) 8) 8)
An initial first run is a wonderful thing. And, it's a great feeling to know YOU did it! Congrats Dr. Jeff.
Tom ;D
Jeff,
Greeting from Arizona and congratulations on the golden spike. I really like the Zephyr. It still looks stylish all these years later. I can't wait to the scenery on your layout. . Keep up the beautiful work.
Frank / Erieman
It's been a big year for The Empire, last year at this time I was working on benchwork in the other room for the East staging yard (see pic). I've completed that and the peninsula and the West staging yard. The yard tracks need to be laid and sidings added, but it's good to have the whole mainline finished. Hopefully scenery will start this year. And backdrops. And switch machines. And power routing to the yards. And... ;D
Thanks to all have watched the progress this year. I can't believe I got this far. Of course some of you have built and torn out two or three layouts this year. 8)
Jeff
Looks good Jeff, and I have or may not resemble that comment! I've certainly done my share or redo's.
Happy New Year.
Tom ;D
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on December 31, 2015, 10:50:32 AM
It's been a big year for The Empire, last year at this time I was working on benchwork in the other room for the East staging yard (see pic). I've completed that and the peninsula and the West staging yard. The yard tracks need to be laid and sidings added, but it's good to have the whole mainline finished. Hopefully scenery will start this year. And backdrops. And switch machines. And power routing to the yards. And... ;D
Thanks to all have watched the progress this year. I can't believe I got this far. Of course some of you have built and torn out two or three layouts this year. 8)
Jeff
Jeff
You did make a lot of progress this year! I'm looking forward to watching another productive year on "The Empire".
BTW - I flew right over your Empire on my way to California last week. It looked like it was snowing - imagine that.
Hey Jeff, I have been keeping an eye in here. you know if you painted the top 1/3 of that room black it would be the perfect Milwaukee Road room.
8)
After a hiatus for our Hawaiian trip, I've made some progress on the staging yard. I've gotten the turnouts in for it. Now I plan to start putting in the yard tracks, back to front. I don't want to have to lean on the front tracks to get at the back ones. Unfortunately, I'm running out of Peco Code 83 flextrack as well. :P
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
The yard area and stacking looks great. Look forward to the finished yard.
Tom ;D
Filling it right up Jeff.
8)
Thanks, guys. I've completed the two rearmost yard tracks. Ten more to go. :P I'm putting them in using Tom's method of drilling a small hole in the ties and using MicroEngineering spikes to hold them in place. I can remove them without damaging them this way if changes are made in the future. It's a pain leaning in as that back track in the corner is 40 inches from the front of the benchwork. I'm also starting to wire the turnouts. Six down and seven to go. Wiring the back ones will be not fun. For those of you planning a layout, narrow benchwork is much easier to work on.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I just went all the way thru your forum on your Empire. I am just starting my layout and have completed the bench work. You have some great ideas that I may steal for my layout construction. I like the slide out board for your circuit breakers etc. Anything to keep from crawling under the layout. I will be following your progress in the future. Nice work.
Thanks for looking in, Steve. I've completed all but two tracks. Everything still needs to be wired up, however. I whip the passenger train over the tracks/turnouts to see if there are any derailment issues/clearance issues. So far so good.
Jeff
Finished the trackwork in the west staging yard. The first pic is from November 8th, when I was still building the benchwork and planning the track layout. Time to start wiring it up!
Jeff
Jeff.......
Looks OK to me.
I like all that Burlington stainless.
Here are three pocket calendars from the late 50's and early 60's that show a lot of stainless. My dad used to get these by the ton every year when he worked in the Q offices.
see ya
Bob
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/81-240316160336.jpeg)
Looking good Jeff - steady progress.
"Where nature smiles for three hundres miles"...
Dr Jeff, do you have 'doctor glasses' like my dentist and some surgeons use for their close-in work? I visited the dentist earlier this week and was talking to her and the hygenist about their 'loupes' (including the cost, $3k) and how much they liked them.
dave
Thanks, guys. Classic Burlington scenes on the pocket calendars, Bob. Dave I don't have the loupes. Out to about 8 inches, I can see better without the glasses. There's a pair of clear non prescription safety glasses in one of the pics that I use if I'm doing stuff up close. Unfortunately, with them on I can't see anything further out than a foot. >:( I have the Optivisor as well, though it doesn't work well with my depth perception. Today I finished wiring the "south" (near) rail of each pair. The "north" (far) rail will be on switches, so I don't have 13 sound locomotives come on at once when the power is turned on. I doubt my 5 amp booster could handle it. Now I just need to make a box for the switches and solder them and wire them to the rails. It won't be a fancy box either, like I saw in one of Tom's recent pics. After wiring, I tested all the tracks by using the small wire to bridge the gaps. One of the tracks had no power. When I soldered it, the wire moved, so I thought it was soldered, when it really wasn't. :( I have since fixed it.
Jeff
I have the same depth perception problem with my OptiVisor. For modeling, I have 'special cheap glasses.' I'm very near-sighted. The modeling glasses are cheapo bifocals in cheapo (Wal Mart) frames. The top of the bifocals is my reading prescription, the bottom is 'reading + 1.50'. With the top, I have good vision from about 15"-25", from the bottom I get about 10" - 20". To see closer up, I take my glasses off and can focus down to about 4". But with these on, I literally can't see past the end of my arm. I have glasses case glued to my drafting table light over the work bench, and that's where they live. When I have the modeling glasse on, my regular glasses go into that case, so I always know where they are. And the modeling glasses are on a 'granny strap' so they can hang on my chest when I put the regular glasses on temporarily (e.g. when I'm looking for something on a shelf in the train room.)
dave
I needed a shelf for the switches for the yard to sit on. I also needed to make sure it was wide enough to hold my favorite beverage containers.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on March 27, 2016, 05:13:31 PM
I needed a shelf for the switches for the yard to sit on. I also needed to make sure it was wide enough to hold my favorite beverage containers.
Jeff
Cool! We often forget to design shelves and cupholders in place for the operations crew or the gandy dancers to use.
dave
Jeff,
Nice shelf and great looking yard area.
Tom ;D
Looks great Jeff. That's a lot of trackage.
John
Thanks Dave, Tom and John. I now have a (Emperor's voice) fully armed and operational battle station... I mean staging yard. Everything works! There's 13 staging tracks, so I split the switches six apiece and put #7 in the center, I'll have a little person next to track 7 so it'll be easier to identify them. I hope. The only problem now is deciding what of the 999,999 other projects to do next.
Jeff
Darth Vadar weighs in on track planning...
dave
I really need to watch the new Star Wars movie again. :) I've admired Mr. Langford's under layout storage pitures, so I wanted to emulate them. Last Saturday our local Menard's (Think the Wal Mart version of Lowe's or Home Depot) had shelving on sale. I had the perfect spot for some, so I built those and a base (2x12 and 3/4 in plywood) for an Ikea cabinet. I got this idea from a layout tour in Portland, Oregon. I really liked the look of the cabinets (the silver ones in the first two pictures). Unfortunately, the Ikea in Chicago doesn't carry the industrial looking ones, but I got the white equivalent. Now to get all the rolling stock out of the boxes they've been in for years, tune them up and use them. And build the many that are unbuilt. ::)
Jeff
Dr. Jeff,
Wow, great job on the staging and the under the layout storage. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tom ;D
Jeff
Great idea with the under layout storage. I can't seem to find enough places for it - I fill it as fast as I build it ;) .
Well, I'm starting to try scenery, as I mentioned in the "carving foam" thread. I've been hacking at this for a week or so. Made some rock castings which are now in place as well. I'm still not sure if I'm going to use Sculptamold or "ground goop". I have some vermiculite coming for the ground goop, but have some sculptamold and will mix that up and try it around the rock castings later. First the lawn needs mowing.
Jeff
I've covered the right side of the hill (ending at the left of the rock castings) with sculptamold. The left was done with "ground goop". The classic recipe for ground goop is a cup each of celluclay, vermiculite and latex paint, and a half a cup of white glue. It's like spreading peanut butter, but fills in large holes/gaps well.
Jeff
i'm watching Jeff , want to see how those hills turn out.
After you install those Ikea drawers can you still get under the layout?
I'm interested to see how they turn out, too, Jan. ;D The drawers don't really block any wiring, but they're able to be pushed around, they're on a pretty heavy base and not attached to the layout nor the wall. I'm working on the landforms for the other side of the bridge. I added the interchange track with the Illinois Central (which will be represented by a track under the bridge). Unfortunately, this leads to the next problem. It's time to start painting the track. I'll need to do this piece before I add the landforms. I'm really not keen on hand painting ALL the track on the Empire, but I don't think I'll get the airbrush out for this short piece, either. I've also got to remove the bridge so I don't damage it while doing the landforms here, but it's tough to take the mainline off duty. :P
Jeff
Catching up on this thread as well Dr. Jeff. Everything's looking A-OK! :D
Looking good Jeff - you are moving right along. I'm hand painting the track on my layout a section at a time and I'm real happy with the way it is turning out.
Thanks for checking in, guys. I decided to spray the track with Krylon dark brown camouflage paint. I then watched a Trainmasters TV video where Mike Confalone paints his track. First he sprays the same paint. :D Then he individually paints ties with Polyscale mud/concrete/dirt paint thinned with water. I did the same and added poly RR tie brown, which is a bit greener than the brown paint. It's drying now. Use a Q Tip with some lacquer thinner to clean the tops of the rails quickly, so the paint comes right off. The next step is ballast. I got a bag years ago which was supposed to be similar to CB&Q ballast. It looks more like sand than anything, and I didn't really like it that well. I have another ballast on order which should be here in a few days which is a "midwestern" color. If I don't like that I'll get some of the Scenic Express blended gray and see how I like that. I've removed the bridge so when the track is finished, I'll tape it over and finish the landforms.
Jeff
Jeff,
I agree with the others, the layout is coming along nicely. Great job on the track. I weather my track pretty much the same way but don't have the light colored ties as often.
Tom ;D
Thanks for watching, Tom. After painting the ties, I used a Floquil Rail Brown "Pen" to paint the rails. These are still available from Testors. This gets some of the tie plate/spikes as well, making them a rustier brown than the ties. I then applied the ballast. This is an interesting mixture of light and dark grey, with some buff as well. I like the color and will use it on the rest of the layout. I then went and used some pastels on the rails, then used Hunterline Creosote black diluted 50/50 with alcohol on the ballast between the ties, and about 1:10 outside the ties. This really evened out the color of the ties (thanks for the idea, Tom) , but seemed to remove some of the pastel as well. I tried cleaning the rail tops with lacquer thinner, but I worried about the thinner squeezing out of the q tip and getting on the ties/rails, and it wasn't doing a very good job of removing the paint anyway, so I used some 1000 grit sandpaper. I then reapplied the pastels. I think it looks pretty good. The pictures aren't very good, the lighting in the room is uneven. At any rate, I now have an attack plan and a ballast color for the rest of the Empire. ;D
Jeff
Now that is some good looking track.
Jim
Jeff,
Before you paint the rails, apply a thin coat of oil to the railhead.
Take a piece of wood wider than the track gage and wrap a piece of old cotton cloth tightly around the wood. Apply the oil, "3 in One" works fine, don't saturate the cloth, but use enough to leave a thin film of oil on the rail. Spray, brush or use the pen and paint away, when the paint dries and after you have weathered the ties, take a clean piece of cloth again wrapped tightly and wipe the railhead. Do this a couple of times changing position of the cloth and you will have no problem removing the paint.
What you have already done looks great.
Bob
You might still be able to find "3 in 1" pens, they work -great- for applying oil to the rails prior to painting
dave
I'm enjoying following your progress Dr. Jeff. Thanks for sharing your process and thanks to Bob and Dave for adding some tips to the track painting part. If/when I ever get around to building a layout again I'm learning a lot of stuff (I hope I remember) from threads like yours, Tom's, etc. :D
Bob and Dave, thanks for the suggestion. Interestingly, the Krylon comes right off with a cotton swab dipped in lacquer thinner used quickly after painting. It was the Floquil pen paint and chalk that was a pain to remove. I thought I had some 3 in one oil here, but it seems to have gone missing, so I'll get some before I paint the next section. Bob B., thanks for looking in. I'm trying my hand at painting some hydrocal rock castings. The rocks I'm trying to replicate are grayer than they are brown. The casting on the left is closer to what I'm looking for, but it's still a bit dark. I have two more castings drying to try later. I used very light grey craft paint and unbleached titanium for the undercoat color, using the "leopard spotting" painting technique. Then just a spot or two of raw umber, finishing with a Payne's Grey wash. I think the wash needs to be a bit more dilute. I then dry brushed some of the under colors and then plain white over the top.
Jeff
Still experimenting with the castings. Used white instead of the light grey. Diluted the black more. The rocks are lighter, but the ones with less black are much less "dramatic" as well. the right third of the left casting looks the best to me. Three more castings drying, but I'm getting pretty close here. I also put down the homabed on the peninsula where the siding goes, now I'm looking at how I want to put in the turnouts.
Jeff
I've started the trackwork for the siding. I wasn't 100% sure how I wanted the turnouts placed, so this stretch is just spiked in place. I'll glue the curve down. Wanted to check the clearances with passsenger cars and it looks OK.
Jeff
Jeff,
Wow, you have been a little busy. The layout is looking great. BTW what is the radius of the curve in the second photo above?
Love the long shot view of the layout.
Tom ;D
Thanks, Tom. Not as busy as you. ;D The curve radius is 48 inches for both tracks on the double track curve.
Jeff
Hi Jeff:
looks really great. Nice progress.
Karl
Thanks, Karl. The siding is finished and wired up. Test train runs without difficulty. Next up some Tortoises.
Jeff
"Test train runs without difficulty" - Way to go!
dave
Hi Jeff:
sound great. Keep us informed.
Karl
Thanks, guys. I wired up the Tortoises at each end of the siding. I'm using www.berretthill.com controls. I've covered these before, I think, but they have controllers which can control 2 to 8 turnouts. They use toggle switches which have LEDs in them. This eliminates all that soldering of micro switches and LEDs. I also needed to "fix" a turnout. I have five of the Walther's curved turnouts, which have a frog which is 2 1/2 inches (65 mm) long. My brass E5A stalls on these, even though it has a "keep alive" capacitor with the DCC sound decoder. I had to wire the frog to the Tortoise outputs. There is another one of these turnouts at the end of the siding, so I had to do it, too. The E5A now goes thru them without stuttering/stopping. I may take a break from the layout, cuz I hear there's a "Build Challenge" going on. ;D
Jeff
Jeff,
That's quite a project you have going. I saw what Joey had on the layout at the Scranton Expo. I almost went with the same system.
Tom ;D
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on September 12, 2016, 08:29:23 PM
Thanks, guys. I wired up the Tortoises at each end of the siding. I'm using www.berretthill.com (http://www.berretthill.com) controls. I've covered these before, I think, but they have controllers which can control 2 to 8 turnouts. They use toggle switches which have LEDs in them. This eliminates all that soldering of micro switches and LEDs. I also needed to "fix" a turnout. I have five of the Walther's curved turnouts, which have a frog which is 2 1/2 inches (65 mm) long. My brass E5A stalls on these, even though it has a "keep alive" capacitor with the DCC sound decoder. I had to wire the frog to the Tortoise outputs. There is another one of these turnouts at the end of the siding, so I had to do it, too. The E5A now goes thru them without stuttering/stopping. I may take a break from the layout, cuz I hear there's a "Build Challenge" going on. ;D
Jeff
Thanks for the information on the Barrethill controls - I talked to them at the Narrow Gauge Convention last year and think I'm going to give them a try for my main yard.
As to taking a break from the layout - just do both. The lawn work can wait - the grass will be covered with snow soon so who will know.
Well, that was an interesting six month hiatus. I took time out for the challenge build. Last September, this is what the area of the west end staging looked like. It was always full of stuff.
The challenge build was the perfect opportunity to add structures to this spot. I used styrofoam as a base, added a road and the challenge dioramas.
I then added the recent CCK build. I've added some floral foam (it's much easier to work with and form than the regular styrofoam. I've also marked out the area for an asphalt driveway.
The road was built from Sintra over a base of masonite with a piece of stripwood down the center. It's like really thin gatorfoam. I think this is 2mm thick. I did this as I like to have a bit of crown on the road, and this stuff works perfectly. In the future, I'll try to get longer sheets so there's no "gaps". I will next fill those and build the asphalt parking area with spackle.
Jeff
Jeff
Great to see you back on the layout. Looking good.
Looking Good.
Glad you are back on it Jeff.
Can't wait to see more of the layout.
Jim
Jeff, moving right along! Sometimes you just have to do something else to get a fresh look at a job.
Jeff, you won't regret using the Barrett Hill Touch Toggles. I have another order arriving today. They are easy to use and connect. I wouldn't use anything else. John, you need to take the plunge. Phil
Hi Jeff,
I to am going to use the Barrett Hill Touch toggles. I ordered a 8 toggle contact base and have tried it out. It was working in 5 minutes. They are simple to install and make the wiring much simpler. It also makes the control panels very easy to build by using their suggestion of an inexpensive picture frame. I drew a schematic for the control panel with 3rd Planit.
Your layout is coming along very well.
Hi Jeff:
Nice progress. Looks great.
Karl
Thanks for looking in, guys. I've filled the joints in the road and made an asphalt parking lot for the kit placement. I needed to make connections from the road to the dioramas as well. I've painted it with two coats of paint, made a base for the kit to get it to the level of the asphalt. Now to fill in the area with sculptamold.
Jeff
Looks good. What did you use for the asphalt color? I have used W/S Asphalt color but yours seems lighter.
Nice work Jeff. :) 8)
Stay cool and run steam........ 8) 8)
Thanks, Curt and Bob. Curt the paint is Ralph Lauren "River Rock" color Stone Chasm. I don't think they make this paint any more. >:( It's slightly rough with some very small dark flecks in it. Works great for asphalt.
Jeff
Hi Jeff:
You're coming right along. Looks very nice. Can't wait to see it in place.
Karl
Thanks, Karl. Three cups of sculptamold in place and now it's got to dry. Probably take a couple of days. In front of the highway, I'm going to use ground goop to make the land forms. Maybe later today.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on April 05, 2017, 12:31:56 PM
Thanks, Karl. Three cups of sculptamold in place and now it's got to dry. Probably take a couple of days. In front of the highway, I'm going to use ground goop to make the land forms. Maybe later today.
Jeff
It's amazing how a little sculptamold makes a big difference. Looking good Jeff.
Quote from: sdrees on April 03, 2017, 10:34:17 PM
Hi Jeff,
I to am going to use the Barrett Hill Touch toggles. I ordered a 8 toggle contact base and have tried it out. It was working in 5 minutes. They are simple to install and make the wiring much simpler. It also makes the control panels very easy to build by using their suggestion of an inexpensive picture frame. I drew a schematic for the control panel with 3rd Planit.
Your layout is coming along very well.
I was wondering if you are using a DCC control of you turnouts? like NCE Switch-it or Smail Servos?
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on April 05, 2017, 12:31:56 PM
Thanks, Karl. Three cups of sculptamold in place and now it's got to dry. Probably take a couple of days. In front of the highway, I'm going to use ground goop to make the land forms. Maybe later today.
Jeff
It is amazing what a few days can do to the growth of a railroad.
Thanks, John and Marty. Marty, I'm just using the Barrett Hill Toggle switches. No DCC control. The the turnouts in the yard are just hand thrown by moving the points. The MicroEngineering turnouts have a spring in them and hold fine. Last night I mixed up some ground goop and applied it to the front of the road area. This will take a day to dry. The sculptamold area is almost dry, I may start some ground cover later today.
Jeff
I applied a very thin layer of dirt (I use the Scenic Express real dirt) under where the loading docks are. It would be very difficult to get the dirt under this after the building is in place. I covered the back hill with dirt as well, as it was easier to do it now versus when the structure is in place. The structure is placed as well. The blue tape strips on the top hold the ends of the wires to go to the power pole, as it would be very difficult to glue these on after it's on the layout. Dirt placed in front of Raymo's garage as well.
Jeff
Nicely done.
Thanks, Curt. I got ambitious and finished the dirt around the building and did preliminary ground cover on the right front.
Jeff
Hi Jeff:
Looks great. You're getting there.
Karl
Jeff,
Your scenery is coming along nicely, looking forward to further progress.
Thanks, Karl and Jerry. I did the preliminary ground cover on the rest of the area last night. Today, perhaps some static grass will be applied.
Jeff
Static grass applied. The problem is I'm running out of the main type I use ( I mix four different types together). I don't know what the product is. :o
Jeff
Looks great. I have done the same thing with names of things I use. After having to do research a couple of times I now keep all manufacturer tags or if necessary write it down and everything goes in a file.
Looking good.
Thanks, Curt. The glue is dry so I pulled up the tape and there are some issues. The tape pulled off some of the chalk weathering from the asphalt in front of the garage. Also there's some white spots showing, I thought I had covered them all. >:(
There's also some leakage of earth colored paint under the tape in several spots. Also my "pipe" here (a blue straw) had it's rust colored paint removed with the glue/matte medium.
On the other side of the drive way I remembered to use a piece of corrugated metal for the pipe. It's paint came off as well. Also there's earth paint leakage again, and you can see exactly where the tape was. :o
The weirdest thing is that there is static grass stuck to the side of the corrugated panels and a small spot at the back edge of the roof. I can't get it off. I didn't get any glue there, and the building was protected when I sprayed the matte medium the day before. I think a tree will need to be planted here. ;D Of course, that means I need to get some trees. ::)
Think of it as the green stuff that has to be pressure washed off. It's prototypical!
Jeff,
Great progress photos. Keep the camera rolling. All the new structures turned out really nice !
Tommy
Jeff,
I have this love/hate relationship with my static grass. I love how it looks, most of the time, but hate how it will stick to anything. I've tried picking off, but it was a futile exercise. A stiff brush does help, but the chalks and paints come off while leaving the grass still there. Sigh!
Jeff,
Looks very nice, your scene is coming together well.
Jeff,
I'm just now getting caught up on the thread. The structures on the hill and surrounding scenery are wonderful. I really like how you tied the scenery, roads and structures into a very believable scene.
Fantastic job Doc.
Tom ;D
Ditto what Tom said..... 8)
Thanks, gents. Tom, I'm just following your scenery instructions from your layout build. I now have a reproducible scenery base. IF I can figure out the type of static grass I've been using. :) Layout on hold today, I filled in a scrape on the asphalt and it needs to dry, I think I'll then repaint all the asphalt where the chalk got pulled up and weather it at once. Also some outdoor furniture needs putting together today.
Jeff
Except for weathering the asphalt area, adding trees and vehicles and attaching the wires, this area is pretty well done. My main worry was that incorporating this area into the finished areas between the dioramas wouldn't come out. But I'm happy with it. ;D
Jeff
Excellent job.
Thanks, Curt. On the left section, the tracks get closer to the raised area, so I'm going to use the Chooch stone walls here, but I only have one and need three, so this area is on hold for now. I also need to get the ambition to try to make some Super Trees.
Jeff
The walls will look great with a little weathering.
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on April 09, 2017, 11:34:43 AMTom, I'm just following your scenery instructions from your layout build.
Jeff
Jeff,
I'm happy my methods work for you. I've been doing it this way for many years.
Tom ;D
After a week off to entertain the grandchildren, and a trip to Des Plaines Hobbies, who had the walls in stock (and a few other items ;) ). I'm back at this. The walls need to be put up against something flat and non bendable. I had some old basswood "splints" from the office which I first cut to fit the area. Then the wall sheet edges needed cutting out so they fit together. These were glued full size onto the walls. I now need to cut the walls back to fit the space.
Jeff
The joints aren't perfect. The instructions note you can fill the gaps in with clay, but I think this is what ivy was invented for. :) They both have a rust stain. I used heavy angle plates to weigh these down. Even with waxed paper (the second had two layers of paper), a small amount of extruded glue managed to rust these. The ivy will cover it.
Jeff
Jeff,
Howard Zane and George Sellios are famous for covering gaps and cracks with ivy, vines, pipes and what ever else fits.
Tom ;D
Quote from: ACL1504 on May 02, 2017, 12:35:33 PM
Jeff,
Howard Zane and George Sellios are famous for covering gaps and cracks with ivy, vines, pipes and what ever else fits.
Tom ;D
Howard calls his technique HWB for hide it with a bush.
The wall cuts easily with an xacto knife or scissors. It's cut to the appropriate height and ready to glue in. I think I'll use Gorilla glue to hold the basswood to the styrofoam.
Hopefully the Gorilla glue will fill some of the gaps between the styrofoam and the wall.
Jeff
Very nice job.
Hi Jeff:
Looks great. I very much like your little village along the wall. Nice structures.
Karl
Thanks, Curt and Karl. Sculptamold applied. It will probably take a couple of days to dry. Some paint smudges on the wall, gives it character. ;D The left edge could have been extended further to the backdrop, but I think after this is covered with some bushes/trees it'll look fine. The train clearance there is pretty tight. After it dries, I'll have to run the Zephyr by it and hope it clears.
Jeff
I have had similar clearance issues also Jeff. Fingers crossed it works for you without any required modifications.
Thanks, Curt. I'm going ahead with the initial ground cover before testing the track :o First dirt is on. The Bottle on the road is a Canopy Glue bottle with the tip cut off to about 4mm (5/32") diameter opening. This is very useful for just little spots of dirt rather than trying to insert a pinch with your fingers. The light stone area is an experiment. Looking at asphalt roads, there's usually a small shoulder of gravel/dirt on the sides. Looking at pictures on the internet, sometimes the grass comes right up to the edge as well. It looks OK, but as I have no margin for this on the other side (last pic), I don't think this will look good here, so I'm just going to go with the dirt/vegetation right up to the edge. There's not really room for a guard rail either, my LPs better be alert and not texting so they drive off the road. 8) Looking up in the link about the road striping, I don't need to use an edge stripe here--so that will save me painting it. I can use yellow or white broken lines in the center lane for 1948-54 period.
Jeff
Great looking modeling.
Jeff, good attention to the details, especially the edge of the road. Add a touch of the gravel on the road edges to hint that there was a should there at one time.
Thanks Curt and Marty. I don't think there's enough room at the edge here to add the gravel, Marty. I really had to have no shoulders on the road so it would fit between the diorama and the tracks. Basic ground cover is finished, and the static grass is drying. I've got some MiniNatur Ivy I've tried to cover the spot where the walls come together. I think it looks pretty good. I need to add a little more. I'd like a lighter green color ivy as well, but this is the only color it comes in. I have some other stuff to try as well, but I'm waiting for the static grass to dry and then I'll clean up that mess and add some other cover. I still need to make those Super Trees. ::)
Jeff
Removing the tape from the road shows some earth color on the asphalt, so this will need touch up. Some areas the ground cover was glued to the tape as well, so some edges got pulled off. this will also require touch up. The parking lot of the general store has a lot of dirt and static grass on it as well. This is best removed by brushing, then vacuuming, and finally using the painter's tape as a slightly sticky thing to pick up the dirt and static grass (which gets EVERYWHERE). I also noticed after taking these pics that I'd forgotten to A&I the wall. I tried a raw umber wash, but it made the wall a monotonous brown. An A&I wash seemed to darken it just enough.
Jeff
I also removed the tape from the tracks and made sure the clearance was still OK. The Pioneer Zephyr cleared. Walthers passenger cars BARELY cleared. Rapido passenger cars cleared as well. No ivy will be placed on the end section. ;D This track will be designated for the Pioneer Zephyr or North Coast Limited.
Jeff
Looking good Jeff! Passenger cars are always the big test.
Looks good. I'm glad everything fit alright without modifications.
Good progress, Jeff. Brass articulated locos with the boiler prototypically rigidly mounted to the rear engine are always the worst at overhang on curves, but they're less common these days.
Thanks, James. The CB&Q had articulateds, but they ran in the Black Hills, not near this layout. :) One thing I'd like to get finished before I'm done with my off work hiatus is to complete and power up the East Staging yard. The first pic shows the area for the track, this piece of plywood is removable, so I can get at the back track. I figured I needed to complete the "backdrop" here first. I used King Mills Flats for this. Unfortunately, they are no longer producing them. :( I bought a bunch of them when they were closing them out. Cut them out, use a black Sharpie on the edges and glued them to the backdrop with 3M spray adhesive. They're more impressive if you can stagger them out a bit so they're aren't all flat, but there's no clearance between the back track and the wall for that. The two left ones and the farthest right one are not glued on as I'm not sure what's going to go to the left of this and I have a couple of background flat kits for the right side. A little dirt and greenery between the track and backdrop and that'll do.
Jeff
I think they look good.
Jeff,
The flats do look very good. I bought many as he was quitting the flats business. Unfortunately I din'[t get manyh of the ones I wanted. However, I did get many of the ones I wanted.
Tom ;D
Thanks Curt and Tom. Minimal scenery here. Just painted the track and put some ground cover in. I don't intend to finish the yard with ballast, probably won't even do the main track, either. Better test it before I put the plywood back in. :)
Jeff
Track worked fine. A non "Keep Alive" equipped switcher crawled along without stalling. The four back tracks are already in, but in the pic you can see a couple extend over the black homabed, so I cut a small piece to extend these. It also extended the shortest track just enough so the Pioneer Zephyr can fit on it. :D Over a couple of days I built a cabinet base and put together one of my IKEA drawer cabinets. In the pic the one on the right is 36 inches wide. I thought I had another 36" and two 24" ones, but I only had a 24" and 18" ones. It's been over a year since I bought them. :-[
Anyhow, the 24 inch one is now together and ready to be crammed with "stuff". :) This will leave the 36" one for rolling stock. I need to make some kind of partitions for these drawers so the cars don't fall over.
Jeff
Meanwhile, back at the East end yard I've started laying track again, and remembering how it's not my favorite pastime. At the end of the yard (where the soldering iron is) I've cut a piece of homabed to extend this by another 13 inches to fit more cars, though I suspect these tracks are much longer than the ones in the West yard. I didn't think I'd be soldering track here, but I decided to run track feeds only at the one end and also some of the joints are on curves. Waiting for the glue to dry on the extension piece. :o
Jeff
Looks good Jeff. I never thought about using IKEA drawers, but I usually try to stay away from huge stores like IKEA.
I had originally seen IKEA drawers on a layout tour at NMRA Portland 2015, as shown in these pictures. The owner used them for car storage. I liked the industrial look of them, but the IKEAs in Chicago don't carry them, so I got the plain white ones. They open fully and have a soft close feature.
Jeff
Everything is looking great Jeff!
John
I agree, it all looks great. Well done Doc.
Tom ;D
Thanks, John and Tom. The North Coast Limited cars are out to make sure clearances are OK. So far, so good. Three tracks down, six to go. Or total of seven down, six to go.
Jeff
Good progress Jeff..... 8)
Looks nicely done Jeff.
Thanks for looking in, guys. The yard is finished. That didn't hurt. Actually, I came up under the table too fast and have a nice scrape on my back from it. But no pain, no gain, right? ::)
Next up is wiring the yard. I needed a small shelf to hold the power switches like I made on the West Yard, so to do that I needed to hang some fascia as well. This took a couple of tries (and some broken masonite) to figure out how it would work. The shelf isn't too deep, just enough for the switch box and a Diet Dew. Making it deeper would make it harder to reach the back tracks.
Jeff
That is a really large yard. Do you have enough cars for it or do you need to go shopping? ;D
Before the yard tracks could be wired, I noticed that in my haste to complete the other end of the layout after getting the East loop done, I hadn't fully wired the turnouts, so they have to be done first. I bend the wires at the ends so I don't pull them through. I remembered this after pulling the first one through. :P There's so many tracks here I marked the ones that needed wiring with blue tape. I leave the sawdust piles so I can find the holes.
Jeff
Ha Ha, Curt. I have so much stuff here in boxes unbuilt, I probably have enough cars. I did just get several new BLI and Tangent Tank cars though. 8)
Jeff
Drilling, wiring, soldering. I had to build a box to hold the micro switches. Didn't take as long as the last one, since I could use the dimensions from the original. :) First up is soldering sires to the switches. Medusa of wires!
Jeff
Looks a little (very little) neater screwed into the terminals.
Jeff
After testing all the tracks, I screwed the cover on and voila! East yard is ready for trains. Almost. The back four tracks tortoises aren't hooked up. At least I was clever enough to install them when the track was installed, before all the plywood sections for the center pieces was in. :) And two on the mainline need to be added as well.
Jeff
Jeff,
I'm here lurking about, love the work you're doing. You are most serious about achieving the end result. 8) Keep on truckin' brother. Thanx Thom...
No Magic Smoke (tm)? Good job!!!
dave
Great looking electrical work. It's much neater than mine.
Jeff,
The track work, wiring, background flats and yard look great. Your hired !!! Good luck with the new commute and take plenty of kits to keep you busy for the layovers. ;)
Tommy
Thanks, guys. Dave, I checked/tested after each step to make sure that there were no shorts. The steps were: South switch feeds, North switch feeds, South (live) feeds to the yard tracks, North (switched) feeds to the yard tracks. There is some trepidation when turning the "On" switch each time. ;D
Jeff
Tommy, the plan is to work three (or four) twelve hour shifts in a row and then be home. I won't have much time for building stuff. This will work out better as I tend to build more when I have days off on a row rather than just one here and there like my five and six day weeks were.
Jeff
Jeff,
You are making some great progress on the layout. Well done sir, very well done.
Tom ;D
Thanks, Tom. Today didn't go so well. I was going to hook up the Berrett Hill Switch controllers to the Tortoises. First, I'm out of green 14 gauge wire. I have plenty of red. ::) Ordered the wire, and figured I'd just power it up with an extension cord for testing. Wired the first one and noticed the turnout didn't move. The motor made noise, but it didn't move. I pushed it by hand and it went back and forth fine. The wire had fallen out from the switch bar. :o When I initially placed these, I moved the tortoise to the appropriate side for the mainline and I think the pressure over time made the velcro that the tortoises are attached to fail. It had pulled out just enough to have the wire fall out. Becoming a contortionist I managed to get two screws thru the machine after getting the wire rethreaded. It now threw fine, but the tortoise kept going back and forth and the indicator lights on the toggle switch was like an RR crossing sign, changing back and forth. This controller is able to be wired for 8 turnouts, so I tried the next position on the bar. Same thing. Tried a different toggle that I knew worked. Same thing. I tried the next tortoise and wired it to the third position on the board and it worked fine. Moved the original one to the fourth position and it works fine now. Added two more, and all are working fine. I don't know if there's a short on the board or what. I only need six of the eight positions, so this may work out, but it's pretty weird. Here's a picture of the Berret Hill Board.
Jeff
I've just hung the toggles over the front for now. This will need a more elegant solution.
Jeff
The Pioneer Zephyr fits perfectly onto it's ready track.
Jeff
Jeff, your electrical issues sounded like many issues I have had in the past. I'm glad you got it working.
As I was disappointed in the Velcro giving way on the switch machine, I hot glued the last one in and hooked it up. I'm now waiting for some 14 gauge wire to come tomorrow so I can finish with the East Yard for now. So I'm back in the West Yard today. I made a stencil for my center lines on the road. The reference on the lines states that they were 15 feet long and 25 feet apart, so that's the dimensions I used. The two cut out pieces are on the road and they look appropriate. I then painted with a stiff semi dry brush just gently tapping over the stencil. I started at the top of the hill where the curve is as there is no way I could cut a perfect curved stencil to fit. ;D The lines look OK. I now need to weather the road. Then finish adding more layers of bushes/etc. Then some trees, if I ever get around to making the Super Trees. ::)
Jeff
Nice job on the road lines.
Thanks, Curt. I was worried that paint would leak around the stencil, but using a not very wet brush and stippling, I only had one spot where it got a little out of the lines. I've drawn some tar repair lines on and added a few patch fixes. The road is reasonably new and doesn't need much repair. Not like the streets around here. >:( I used four different grays and a very small amount of black pastels to weather this. Used a small amount of my background dirt on a brush where the parking lot meets the dirt areas as well. I'll let it sit an hour or so and see if I need to fix anything, then add some bushes, etc.
Jeff
Bushes, shrubs and ivy added. How much longer can I put off making the trees? :)
Jeff
Great looking scene Jeff. Before I make trees I will jury rig something similar to what Tom has.
I've added the power wires from the buildings to the power poles. A bit of a pain, but better than I expected. I only used one wire for Tiny Lou's. It doesn't need much power. And I'm lazy. :)
Jeff
Great looking scene! :D
Great scene, the power pole and wire is a really nice detail.
Thanks, guys. I'm going to try to wire the poles as well with some EZ line, but wanted to add the trees first. So today is Super Tree Day on the Empire. These are my first three attempts. Basically they were soaked in matte medium, dried, spray painted, sprayed with adhesive and foliage added. The one on the left is the foam flock that came with the kit. The other two are Super leaf flake. I think they both look good, but I like the leaf flake better. I have some noch leaves here to try as well. The one on the right was done in the Turbo Tree, where the fan blows the leaves on instead of me just dropping them on. I should have left it in a little shorter time, almost too dense. But I like the way these turned out. Next up is trying to straighten some bendy trees with a soldering iron. I tried a heat gun on one and started roasting it. It also didn't seem to help straighten it.
Jeff
Trees look great.
The Scene looks Great.........but what is the blue buzzard doing
Jim
Jim, the blue tape on the one pole was when it was the only pole present (on the originally place diorama). I did that so I wouldn't hit the pole accidentally when adding the other buildings and ground cover. I think I only hit it twice. ;D
Jeff
Jeff,
Great scene, looking forward to seeing it with your super trees added.
Some trees with Noch leaves in the first pic. A bush (on the right in the second pic) made with the Super Tree Material as well. The bush on the left is the Woodland Scenics fine leaf foliage. They both look good, and the contrast adds some variety. The soldering iron did a good job straightening the trunks. I'm waiting for some more of the Super Leaf material coming from Scenic Express.
Jeff
Nice job Jeff.
Well, starting last September, we had the Raymo build challenge. I wanted to finish this area of the layout with the South River kits. There was also a CCK build to do. Scenery was attempted, and I learned how to make Super Trees. Finally, it's finished. Thank The Maker. All the trees aren't perfectly straight, and after adding some wiring, neither are the power poles. ::) But I think overall, it came out looking pretty good.
Jeff
Beautiful job Jeff.
That looks superb! The only thing I'd suggest is a bit of trash, particularly newspapers, blown up against the fences.
dave
Jeff,
Great job on the scenery. Looks very realistic.
Tom ;D
Jeff
It looks great. Great scenes.
Some of you cats are taking scenery to a new level. It shows what dedication and skill can do.
Thank you for sharing.
ed
Thanks, guys! Next up is trying to add sidings so that maybe the layout can become operational. This corner will be an industrial area.
Jeff
There's a turnout just to the lower right which will send a straight track up thru the "gap" on the right between the styrofoam and the wall. I'll put plywood in the gap, so I can run the track and a couple of turnouts to add tracks over the styrofoam. There will be a small station in front where the "straight" between the "S" curve is. I just want to get a piece of track here so I can drop off and pick up cars.
Jeff
Adding styrofoam to get the basic landforms in. I now need to put in two Tortoises. Much easier while I still have access from above and below. ;)
Jeff
Jeff,
Looking good sir. That will be a great scene.
Tom ;D
Jeff,
Wow, it's coming along nicely, very nice indeed! I'm all eyes with pencil & paper in hand. Thanx Thom...
Great looking progress Jeff.
Thanks, guys. The short siding is in. Again, this is just temporary until I figure out where everything will go in this area. I'll need to have a lift out where the yellow screw container is, as I can't reach the corner from the front.
Jeff
Wonderful scene Jeff..... 8)
Thanks, Greg. Here's the whole area nearly covered with foam. This looks better (even in pink!) than the open gridwork. I visited the last V&O years ago, and many areas were just foam painted an earth color and it looked so much better than the open grid. Plus less chance of rolling stock hitting the floor. :P
Jeff
On the other side of the wall is where the next two sidings are. This requires several more structures to be built. Also it needs an access hatch in the center as it's too deep to reach the back. I think I'll do this with either 3/16" or 1/2" Gator foam. Probably the 1/2 inch as I will make it larger than the hole and the 1/2 will support the weight of the structures/scenery better. This makes it higher than the railbed, but that's OK. I need to build FOS' "Red Light District" to see where it will fit here. I suspect I ought to start it soon. ::)
Jeff
Your making great progress Jeff. Filling the benchwork with foam is a good idea during track testing. Don't ask me how I know that. :( :-[
Jeff,
WOW, adding structures to the layout sure changes the look. I know you've been looking forward to this time when things start looking as they do.
Very well done on the placement of the structures.
Tom ;D
Actually, John, I've only had two cars go to the floor (except for test cars that were flung down the track at "Greg Speed" for testing). I'm afraid to let the brass locos out on the line until there's more "protection". ;D
Jeff
Thanks, Tom. This is set up more to judge where the streets will go. I suspect the "Red Light District" will end up if front, but I've got to build the structures and then place them.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on July 05, 2017, 05:14:11 PM
.....(except for test cars that were flung down the track at "Greg Speed" for testing).....
Jeff
et tu Jeff..... ;)
Quote from: GPdemayo on July 05, 2017, 06:09:39 PM
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on July 05, 2017, 05:14:11 PM
.....(except for test cars that were flung down the track at "Greg Speed" for testing).....
Jeff
et tu Jeff..... ;)
Looks like Greg's reputation is country wide :o :o :o
Jim
Greg??? Who????
See what you started Tom..... ::)
Do I sense some exaggeration Greg? ;)
Quote from: GPdemayo on July 07, 2017, 08:48:35 AM
See what you started Tom..... ::)
Greg,
First, lets not take Dr. Jones' Empire thread on a side track!
Secondly, you and you alone are responsible for the "Greg Speed", I only named it.
Now, back to Jeff's thread.
Tom ;D
Quote from: ACL1504 on July 07, 2017, 11:40:04 AM
Quote from: GPdemayo on July 07, 2017, 08:48:35 AM
See what you started Tom..... ::)
Greg,
First, lets not take Dr. Jones' Empire thread on a side track!
Secondly, you and you alone are responsible for the "Greg Speed", I only named it.
Now, back to Jeff's thread.
Tom ;D
Jeff.....sorry about side tracking the thread, but as you might not know, I've fallen in amongst a group of miscreants and have picked up a few bad habits. :o
As for you Thomas.....I was only following the manufacturers instruction on how to break in a new engine. That's my story and I'm sticking to it..... :)
Mighty impressive work here Jeff!
I had two nagging trackwork issues that needed fixing. The first was at the turnout on the "bridge" near the water heater. I initially installed it with an unusually long rail joiner that had a bit of play in it. This caused the curve to start abruptly at the joint. This was fine with diesels and my BLI and Athearn steam locos. Brass was a different story. The 2-8-2s had occasional issues, but the 4-8-4 derailed nearly every time. I took the whole track out and relayed it. The "bridge" had to be widened to accommodate this. All the engines now run fine through this (even a 2-10-2).
The second was a broken throwbar at a turnout. I tried gluing this with several glues, but none held. So I replaced it with a PC board tie. Too much solder at the joints ( :-[ ), but it works, throws well and even cranky engine number 5630 (the 4-8-4 getting the new nickname, "The rail defect detector), runs through it in both directions without issues.
Jeff
Looking good Jeff! We all have a "cranky" locomotive that ends up being our test locomotive. It took me a long time to understand that you need to test at different speeds. I used to send "Cranky" through the trouble spot at "Greg speed" and figured I had the problem licked. I find that some problem only show up at slow speeds. The only glue that I have found that works on the plastic used in turnouts is Walther's Goop. I like your solution better though.
Great fixes Jeff.
The prototype had locos that were subject to derailments, too. The Pittsburg, Shawmut & Northern picked up some 2-10-0 when the Russians defaulted on payment to Baldwin. Those were notorious for derailing on the PS&N track. They called those "the damned Bolshies".
dave
After having this "placeholder" bridge in place 15 years, the real bridge is finally installed. Only the abutments are glued in place. The bridge will need to be removed when I scenic this area. Probably in another 15 years. ::) "Rail Defect Detector" Loco runs thru it nicely.
Jeff
Excellent Jeff.
Looks grand Jeff..... 8)
Very nice, Jeff! Thumbs up...John
It looks good you are making progress.
I like it.......How come I can't find the "like button"
Jim
Jeff,
Nice job on the bridge install. It will be a great scene when finished.
Tom ;D
Jeff
What's new on the Empire?
Nice looking bridge!!
Jerry
Thanks, guys. Funny you should ask, John about progress. I added some basic landforms around the bridge area. This is very rough. You can see there will be a raised highway in the back. I liked Tom's recent highway bridge build, I may do something similar. There's a small road bridge to cover the hole where the track goes thru the backdrop.
Jeff
I'm trying to get some basic forms in as most of the railroad roadbed is floating in space. A derailment would mean the trains would fall to the floor in many places. The area leaving the west end staging yard is one of the scariest areas, so I have been working on this over the last couple of weeks. I have a temporary piece of fascia here, this area was designed to be a "Bellina Drop", where the fascia goes to the ceiling, so you can't look down the end of the peninsula.
Jeff
The next section will be a town area. In theory I could have just put plywood down to cover this to start with, but I wasn't really sure what I was going to do here. The front area (right side in the picture) has 1/2 inch gator foam over plywood, so I can build some FSM dioramas at the bench and add them to the area. The back plywood town area is even with the roadbed. There will be some switching in this area. The grandkids will be here two weeks before Christmas, so I'm probably not going to do too much more for awhile as I need to clean the whole train area up.
Jeff
Very nice modeling Jeff.
Looks great Jeff! Good idea using the G-board.
Hey Jeff:
All I can say is WOW!!!!!
Karl
Jeff,
Well done on it all. Love the bridges though.
Tom ;D
Jeff
Really looking good. Love the elevation change.
It's been a busy 2 months here. In the middle of November, I sold the pool table that's in it's own room here in the basement.
The kids/grandkids were coming in three weeks. My youngest has to sleep on an air mattress when she comes home and everyone's here, so instead, I ordered and built a Murphy bed for her. I also ordered a larger TV for myself. Transforming the room.
What does this have to do with the layout? Well, the elliptical and TV/chairs were in the second layout room, which is now more open. I may expand in here at a later date. Running a pennisula down the center of the room and moving the yard to the empty wall (the printer desk will need to disappear).
Jeff
Jeff
I love to see an expanding railroad. Congratulations on the acquisition of more real estate. I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
It's good to have options.....nice loco on the TV. 8)
Jeff,
More expansion and room works very well in planning more railroad space. Go for it.
Tom ;D
Hey Zephyrus:
The layout room is looking good. Keep the photos coming.
Karl
The FSM diorama is in it's place next to the new siding. It's removable, as I need to do all the work behind it on the layout, but I really wanted to do an FSM kit, and it fit well here. There will be an oil loading facility where the mug with the file in it is at. Lots of work to do here, but first...
Jeff
I was tired of looking at this unfinished area. I added the front and overhead fascias. Next up is to paint them black, I found the paint, but will do that another day. The top piece doesn't curve well, I should have started in the middle of the area and curved both ends out, but you live and learn. The width is a trial, I think it might look better a couple of inches lower, but don't want to hit my head on it when rerailing/coupling cars, etc. We'll see how it works out. These are before and after pics.
Jeff
Next up is a big thank you to John Seikirk. His description of how he built his control panels helped me figure out how to do these. I use the Barrett Hill toggles like he does. I couldn't figure out how to mount them. His technique worked well here. This is just a picture frame, but I think in the future I'll build these like he described. Thanks again, John!
Jeff
Excellent work Jeff.
Jeff,
I agree, very well done. fascia looks good.
Tom ;D
Great job and great font too!
John
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on June 04, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Next up is a big thank you to John Seikirk. His description of how he built his control panels helped me figure out how to do these. I use the Barrett Hill toggles like he does. I couldn't figure out how to mount them. His technique worked well here. This is just a picture frame, but I think in the future I'll build these like he described. Thanks again, John!
Jeff
You are welcome Jeff. I'm happy with the Barrett Hill setup. I just ordered the supplies to complete the rest of my layout.
Nice progress Jeff..... 8)
Thanks, guys. That was a big step to get over. On the layout I'm trying to eliminate all the places where if there were a derailment, the trains would fall to the floor. This curve area is right at the edge of the layout. I'd designed this to be enclosed as this is the tightest "visible" curve (30" radius) on the layout. Also, I don't like being able to stand at the end of a peninsula and see down both sides. I was all open frame work, "closed in" by the backdrops of both sides.
Jeff
Originally, I was just going to close the track in and make part of the cover removable for maintenance. When my grandson visits, he really likes to stand in this spot to watch the train come thru the "tunnel", so I decided to open it up. This required a lot of "engineering" and work to make this enclosed. Here I've started the framing.
Jeff
Daylighting this took a lot more work than I thought it would I've spent a lot of the last few days waiting for glue and paint to dry. The trim is all hardboard, except between the track and plexiglass, which is some cardboard and the top which is 1/4 inch plywood. Everything painted black, like the fascia. All the long passenger cars and the "rail defect detector" steam loco pass through without incident. Anyway, I'm glad this is finished. The rail still near the edge will probably have some plexiglass as well in front of it eventually. Of course, now that I have a horizontal surface, I'm sure stuff will accumulate there. ;D
Jeff
Jeff,
Great job on the tunnel. Always good to keep trains on the layout.
Tom ;D
Beautiful modeling Jeff.
Great idea Jeff.....bet the grandson will spend hours watching the trains. 8)
That's pretty slick Jeff. I (and I'm sure everyone else) know exactly what you mean about stuff accumulating on horizontal surfaces. ::) ;D
Jeff
Looks great, and I know what you mean about the grandkids loving to watch for the trains to come out of a tunnel. Horizontal surfaces will collect stuff until you build a diorama to fill that spot. ;)
Thanks for the kind words, gentlemen. John, I'd never intended to scenic this area, but your diorama comment makes me think I could have a waterfront scene here. Thanks for the idea!
Jeff
I've mentioned "layout work" in some of our morning posts recently. I've been working on the E Dubuque area. I decided to add a tunnel to the scene. There are bluffs in the area along the Mississippi where the Burlington traverses the east bank of the river, so though there were none "in real life", it's not a stretch to have one here. Plus, I think there's a rule that every model railroad needs a tunnel. ;D I had planned bluffs behind the town,anyway. First was to figure out how high to make them. Too short and it would be foolish to put a tunnel thru here, but I don't have much area between the town and the backdrop.
Jeff
I had planned to go to the Narrow Gauge convention this week, but of course it's been cancelled months ago. One thing I wanted to check out was Bragdon enterprises terrain and rock mold making clinics. I decided to get his "test kit" after seeing how nicely it worked out for John (cuse) on his layout. It basically uses the same chemicals that make spray foam to make the terrain. You spread a thin layer on two sheets of fiberglass window screen material. It turns into a flexible leather like material that you can then hot glue to formers (I'm using cut pieces of styrofoam). This worked well. But I think I made it just a bit too high.
Jeff
Jeff,
The mountain looks good to me. I can just see all the rocks and trees on it. Also love the city scene. Well done.
Tom ;D
The rock molds use two chemicals that form a plastic rock. It's flexible for a while after you initially make them, so they can be bent around the scenery and hot glued as well. This worked well, but I'll probably have some hydrocal rocks as well. You can see the town and it's styrofoam base is gone, as the benchwork is 4 feet deep here and it'd be near impossible to do this without a hole in the benchwork. You can see the basic form for the "bluff" that the train tunnel goes through. Short enough to separate the scenes, without the train disappearing for a great length of time. There will be an access hole in the side, for track and derailment access. It's taking a long time as I put up a couple of castings and wait a day or so to see where the next one goes. Al these rocks are from just 3 molds. Two of them ( in the center of the picture) are nearly two feet long. I had an issue with painting them, I've just stained hydrocal rocks without much issue, but that doesn't work on plastic. Bragdon suggests using gouche to cover them. The liquid gouche he uses in the sample kit was too thick, I found some Krylon spray gouche that works well. The stains go on well, but using black thinned paint or A&I made the rocks a bit too dark. I tried overpainting this with white stain, but that didn't look good, either. A dry brushing worked better, and I even used some Pan pastels which seemed to work well. We'll see how it works when I paint them in place.
Jeff
Thanks, Tom. The bluff is almost too vertical for trees. I'm presently trying to figure out how to cover them. Maybe some Woodland Scenics clump foliage, maybe Supertrees. I'll experiment with that once I get the rest of the rocks in place and some ground goop for a base.
Jeff
Everything looks wonderful. I really like both the city and the mountain you built. You also have me thinking about doing a tunnel :)
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on September 01, 2020, 03:25:56 PM
Thanks, Tom. The bluff is almost too vertical for trees. I'm presently trying to figure out how to cover them. Maybe some Woodland Scenics clump foliage, maybe Supertrees. I'll experiment with that once I get the rest of the rocks in place and some ground goop for a base.
Jeff
Jeff,
I see that now that I look more closely at the mountain. Howard Zane used WS clump foliage for his vertical mountains.
Tom ;D
(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-131215183133.jpeg)(https://modelersforum.com/gallery/24-250416150509.jpeg)
Looks like I 'found' a new thread to follow. Great work Jeff. I have caught up on the 'new' part, now need to go back to the original thread.
Jim D
Thanks for following, guys. Thanks, Tom for the Zane pics. The foliage on the vertical sides is kinda what I'm trying to do. Oddly I had no WS Clump Foliage here (until some arrived yesterday). I think it will work well. I used some Sculptamold in between the castings. It kinda looks like rock if you don't smooth it out. I needed to wrap the tunnel portal in Saran Wrap to put the sculptamold around it.
Jeff
I used "Ground Goop", a concoction of vermiculite, Celluclay, Elmer's Glue, and Latex paint (with a capful of lysol to prevent mold growth). With my latex paint color, it looks like something that rhymes with goop. I use a darker brown than my dirt color, so I can make sure I've covered the entire area with dirt. I apply it with these palate knives, and my fingers (wear disposable gloves). It sticks to the surfaces better than the Sculpatmold, as it's very sticky. You can make grooves in it to show erosion, though I doubt the shallow ones I made will show after there's ground cover and foliage on the sides.
Jeff
This section took nearly two hours to do with making the sculptamold, applying it carefully around the rocks, and cleaning up the mess. The white over spray is from the Krylon Spray on gesso, as most of the rocks were applied right after making them while they were still malleable. Speaking of mess, you don't want to just put this stuff down the drain. So I take off as much as possible with paper towels from the tools, mixing bowl, etc. I used to hate mixing it up and it's very thick and hard to stir. I bought my own stand mixer on Amazon to do this, and now it's MUCH easier. Still some to cover, maybe later, as my arm gets tired from working this stuff. Then it'll be time to color the rocks. Then the foliage. Maybe by Christmas I'll be done (don't quote me on what year). ;D
Jeff
I have a wallboard bucket that I keep in the train room as a dumping place for all the scenery fluids and scraps.... Beats pouring that stuff down the drain!
dave
You especially don't want to put scenery cleanup water into a septic system. I always clean outside with a hose, regardless of season.
Well, it's been a month. I completed putting on all the ground goop. I could work at it an hour or so at a time until my hands/arms got tired. It's like spreading very thick peanut butter. That and maneuvering it around the castings took about 8 hours total.
Jeff
On scraps I tried many ways to paint the castings. Some are plaster, some are the plastic Bragdon type. Most plaster coloring videos use the raw plaster as a base. I've done that a time or two before with good results, but here, they wouldn't match. Bragdon suggests covering them with Gesso. I used the liquid gesso in the sample he sent me, but it was too thick and tended to cover the rock detail. I found some Krylon spray gesso which worked well. Next Bragdon uses black tempra brushed liberally into the nooks and crannies, then spraying it with water and rubbing the tempra off the rock faces. This looked OK, but the rocks got too dark, I thought. I tried starting with A&I, but this didn't really take on the gesso, though better on the plaster castings than the plastic ones. I decided the tempra was the way to go, and the rocks on the left here have that.
Jeff
Finally, I tried thinned acrylics, but they got into the nooks and crannies and then you lost the dark crevices. So I decided to use Pan Pastels. This seemed to work, though this rock is a bit darker than I'd like, probably as it took up more of the A&I for some reason. I'll do the next rocks up next.
Jeff
I've been slowly working on the rock castings. The sequence for painting is start with the gesso, then the tempra. Spray the tempra liberally with water. Towel off the surfaces. Then I use a china brush with the bristles cut to about 1/2 inch to scrape more of the tempra off the surface. Then drybrush with white. Let dry. I usually do this a couple of times, letting it sit, as I think it's too white when it goes on. Doing the dry brush white seems to take off some of the tempra, making some of the dry brushing a light grey. Then apply Pan pastels. Light grey, white, raw umber and yellow ochre. Then seal with matte fixative. Then more dry brushing of white over this, usually at least twice. Some vertical strokes to catch the edges of the rocks to highlight them, then some lateral to have the rock faces themselves lighten a bit. Reapply some pan pastels if needed. Use back A&I if some rock details don't have enough black in the cracks, then again some white gently drybrushed over the faces. Still a little darker than I'd like, but I can live with this. The yellow ochre isn't quite so stand out on the layout, must be the camera (or the photographer).
Jeff
Here's the next section finished (I think), and the next section with just the Tempra. You can see how dark it is, that's why it takes so much dry brushing to lighten it up. The rubbing with the cloth to remove some of it can break off small pieces on the plastic moldings. These get painted with grey acrylic to cover them.
Jeff
Very impressive sir. I really like the way this is coming together. :D
Great looking rock faces. Very nicely done.
Jeff
You have made some real progress - the rock castings are really looking nice.
Beautiful rock cropping's. They really look natural.
Jerry
Thank you for the kind words, gentlemen. I've done a "test patch" of ground cover. I started with applying full strength Elmer's glue over the surface, followed by Woodland Scenics earth blend. This mainly had to be "blown on" from a sheet of paper, as the pitch of the side of the bluff made just shaking it on from the jar not feasible. I then made some "clump foliage" by a method on an old Dave Frary Scenic Express video. I used some Scenic Express Flock and turf, mixed it in a bowl with their Tak-E-Glue and then applied it to the surface. It still wasn't sticky enough to hold, so I painted the surface with the Tak-E-Glue and tried again. Most of it stuck this time. I then did the same with some Scenic Express Super Turf and then with some WS clump foliage. Applying these in "patches" of areas. A couple of spots got WS Foliage clusters, which are already large clumps and didn't need the pre mixing. I think these are too monochromatic (the large dark green are in the center), and will probably try drizzling on some SW burnt grass or green grass to break up their monochromatic pattern. I'll use these in small accents, using mostly the Flock and turf as it's multicolored. I tried two self made bushes with poly fiber (under the trees), but I'll probably remove them as they don't look great. I may try some smaller ones of these and try to make some "ivy" with these for the rock faces.
Jeff
Jeff,
Looking good to me. Any progress, slow or otherwise, is always good.
Tom ;D
The one thought I have is to do some branches and smaller stuff that is less bright green along the edge of the cliff. But that looks pretty convincing as-is.
dave
Thanks, guys. Dave, I plan to add some ivy, branches and tufts when I get the main areas covered. Some greenery on the rock faces will be added as well. Slowly working, this area (the lighter area as the glue is drying) took over an hour from start to cleanup.
Jeff
Jeff,
Your rockwork and ground cover is really looking good!
Looks great Jeff.
You are rocking it.
8)
Thank you, Jerry, Curt and Rusty. I used some Ivy and other assorted materials to break up the large rock faces. Shows up better in person than the pictures.
Jeff
So the background is finished, now the rest of the area needs work. I can't reach the back of this from the aisle, so an opening must be left in the benchwork. I only need the mid right section to open, so I replaced the styrofoam. I didn't want it resting on only the 3/4 inch sides of the joists, so I added some foam hot glued about an inch or so on each side. I then marked on the top where the cuts were to be made and ran it carefully thru the table saw.
Jeff
Jeff, studying cliffs here (NH), I've noticed two related things: (1) a lot of tall scraggly plants. (2) more tan and brown and yellowish than green. Makes sense, a cliff isn't the most advantageous place for plants to grow.
dave
They're more a hanging ivy type plant, Dave, than growing upward, but there are a couple of those as well.
The town will be nearly entirely on a piece of gatofoam. I'll paint the streets right on the gatorfoam, then place the buildings on it. This way if I ever need access, I can remove buildings and the gatorfoam. At least that's the working theory. ::) I replaced the edge buildings to see how much buildup would be needed to conform to the background. This lead to a problem. The small strip of buildings on the left is supposed to "disguise" the Illinois Central track and the interchange track. But it doesn't do a very good job of it.
Jeff
I considered a visible tunnel, but having both tracks (and try to forget about the track from Bailey's Produce on the left that needs to parallel these) into a tunnel didn't seem too prototypical. I'd still like to hide them behind the buildings. So I thought about using a taller building. I had a CCK building I started, but the front wasn't cut correctly (Jeff Grove is sending a replacement). I then remembered I had a Downtown Deco building that might work, which was actually taller.
Jeff
Better. But then I had another thought while I was resizing the photos, move both buildings forward. I can then increase the curve behind them (no trains are running here, only a couple of cars need to fit on the interchange track). Works even better.
Jeff
I will have to find a narrow tall building to fit betwixt the other structures, or, heaven forbid, scratch build something. I'll leave it like this a few days and see how I like it.
Jeff
Nice planning.
Well, it's been over six months since I did any work on the layout. Did participate in the build challenge, though. Haven't really done any train stuff for over two months, for several reasons, but got back to it yesterday. It's time to layout out the town again. I'm building it on a piece of thin gatorfoam. Remember back a few pages there's a "hatch" in the scenery here in case I need to get at the back. The gatorfoam will cover this, and I can paint the streets directly on it, then place the sidewalks and buildings. Had to place the buildings on the styrofoam again to remember how they were laid out (even though I had pictures). I then removed them and cut a piece of gatorfoam to fit the area. It's a little wide, but I can adjust that later. Cut some strathmore board for street widths. Now I have to make sure everything is at 90 degrees. then mark everything and paint the streets.
Jeff
I wanted the front street to have two lanes and space for parallel parking. This pushed the back buildings almost to the backdrop. The rear street can be slightly narrower, as it's barely visible from the extreme sides. No need to at LPs/details/sidewalks where they won't be seen. The pink area between the streets and the track has no structure, but will probably end up with one of my many gas stations.
Jeff
When replacing the buildings, I had an extra Downtown Deco structure that was supposed to go on the left edge where the Burlesk is, but didn't hide the curving tracks. It fits behind the front row of buildings well, which had a "hole" in it before. Also the hotel/bar two story structure wouldn't go back far enough in front of the protruding rock, so it got moved left and now there's space for a small parking lot. I'll leave it this way today to see how I like it later and tomorrow and stop for today as the Red Sox game starts in about a half hour. The first pic is a high pic to show the layout of the structures, the second is from my eye level.
Jeff
OR...that configuration puts the two same structures closer to each other. As different as they are painted, I don't think it makes much difference, but I swapped the Downtown Deco Row with the FOS bars to come up with this. The tall structure can't go any further to the right than this due to the protruding rock. Don't need to decide today, the roads still have to go where they go.
Jeff
That is one tough part of town Jeff.....not sure I would want to wandering it in the wee hours.....looks great. 8)
Hey Jeff:
Great looking model. I does look like the seedy part of town.
Karl
Jeff
Great to see you back at it - I like to arrange the buildings, let them sit a few days, and then take another run at it to see what I like best. I always take lots of pictures to review before deciding on the final arrangement plan. It looks like you are getting close. Great looking structures.
Looking good, Jeff.
Have you thought about some alleyways between the structures? From the overhead shot it looks like some of the structures facing backwards on the street behind line up with the ones in front, so you could even open up an alleyway up going right through to the street behind.
Cheers, Mark.
Greg and Karl, my daughter calls it the "Town of Questionable Moral Values". Thanks for looking in.
Jeff
John, about five minutes after I posted, I looked again, moved some of the structures around. Found Saulena's Tavern on the orphan shelf and came up with this. It eliminates the street looking right onto the bluff. I'm liking this even more. I moved "Rosa's Place to the end of the other street as well. This left a big gap behind the front structures, but I'll just build the back of a building and roof for this.
Jeff
Mark, the front structures from the theater to the hotel have no sides. Fitting things, there is a small passageway next to the theatre, which could include some details, or LPs "making a deal" out of sight of the street.
Jeff
Quote from: Zephyrus52246 on July 12, 2021, 05:00:19 PM
John, about five minutes after I posted, I looked again, moved some of the structures around. Found Saulena's Tavern on the orphan shelf and came up with this. It eliminates the street looking right onto the bluff. I'm liking this even more. I moved "Rosa's Place to the end of the other street as well. This left a big gap behind the front structures, but I'll just build the back of a building and roof for this.
Jeff
Jeff
I like that better, too. I like Mark's idea of adding some alleyways. They provide a great opportunity for some mini scenes, too.
Alleys don't take up anywhere near as much (road width) space as regular roads!
dave
Jeff,
Know you will find the right layout of all those structures to make this scene look great.
Great to see this section of the empire looking completed.
Tommy
Jeff,
Happy to see more work done on the Empire. The addition of the structures sure changes the look of that area. Great stuff Doc!
Tom ;D
Hey Jeff:
I think your daughters are right.
Karl
Quotethe front structures from the theater to the hotel have no sides. Fitting things, there is a small passageway next to the theatre, which could include some details, or LPs "making a deal" out of sight of the street.
Its a bit of a shame you can't split those structures apart, but I like the alleyway next to the theater. I think, especially when viewing from the building height, the glimpse of the alleyway, street and structure behind will seem very deep and add a lovely cameo shot.
I, too, wonder about using those two same DD kits in the same viewing area. You could try them side by side - like the same builder built two units using the same set of plans and the residents have painted them differently over the years.
Cheers, Mark.
Well, I'm sure you all have wondered about progress on The Empire in the intervening 2.5 years since the last post. Probably not, but I'll tell you anyway. ;) Not much. If you look at this pic that I posted of the structures in place on the FOS structure build thread, you can see the streets are finished. This was a stopping point for a long time as I couldn't get them to look the way I wanted. Between paint and Pan Pastels, eventually they looked good enough. I've added the sidewalks as well.
Jeff
I don't know why I left that bare spot on the hill behind the buildings. I think at the time, I was going to cover it in trees, but later thought it would look better just continuing the same materials. I finished that last week. Remembering how I did this years ago was also puzzling, but I had written it down so I could do a similar effect in the future. Also added some ground goop in the area up to the tracks. The hole in the rock is so that a building can fit here.
Jeff
Yes, I've removed the buildings for the umpteenth time. ::) On the left side, The "creek" area was completed yesterday as was an area on the front of the tracks. The bridge was another stopping point for a long time. I couldn't decide how to do the abutments. After seeing Tom and others make them out of styrene, that's what I did here and they look OK. The interchange and Rock Island crossing track have also been attached and some drainage ditches around them put in. The tracks have been painted, which was another point where I tried several different paints to get what I was looking for and eventually found a reasonable look.
Next up is the white area between the lift out which has the streets on it and the interchange track. We'll see how long that takes.
Jeff
Jeff,
That looks like solid progress to me. I especially like the way you worked the elevation changes surrounding the riverbed into the scene. I'm also looking forward to seeing some scenery around the Myers feed mill and the coal silos.
Thanks for taking the time to bring us "up to speed".
Very nice work.....great progress. 8)
Thanks, Jerry. The area around the feed mill will unfortunately be the last area with scenery. Everything behind the main line first, and then the front, so I don't have to reach over the rest.
Jeff
Thanks for looking in, Greg. It's progress, but very slow progress.
Jeff
Any progress is good progress, Jeff.
Even 15 minutes a day soon adds up. Town is looking good.
Cheers, Mark.
Nice work Jeff.
Looking good Jeff. Just keep making progress.
Thanks, Mark. Yes, even a little bit of work eventually shows progress.
Jeff
Thank you, Curt.
Jeff
Thanks, John. Nice to see you're progression on your layout as well in the Gazette.
Jeff
Jeff,
Steady work even though slow as you say. I like the scene of the Bailey's at the river's and track edge.
Tom
Thanks, Tom. The difficult part will be blending the new scenery around it so it matches.
Jeff
I have some details to add to the streets, lamp posts, hydrants, mailboxes and trash receptacles. I put the structure (moving them for the millionth time) so I could see how the lamp posts would fit. This led to the dilemma of the corner structure. It's entryway butts out into the side walk, so I have to decide to let it or to move it backward where it no longer blocks the sidewalk. If I move it back, it narrows the alleyway and the building I had projected to use behind it no longer fits. I'll leave it a day or two, but I'm leaning towards letting it hang over.
Jeff
Outstanding modeling Jeff.
Looking great, Jeff.
If you rotate the brick building 90 degrees anticlockwise, so that its front faces the side street, will it then fit? I definitely like the corner building with the protrusion back from the curb as in the last two photos. I wonder whether consent would be given to encroach on the footpath like that? It just feels a bit too claustrophobic to me... The second arrangement also allows for some nice mini scenes in those two set back areas.
Cheers, Mark.
That's why I love this forum. I've moved these things around many times, but never thought to have one face the street, though I've put many buildings in this spot, I never thought to turn it to the street. But I don't like it with this structure. It's a Monster Modelworks kit and I've always thought it was out of scale. See it next to the HO figure? windows and doors are very tall. Also the second floor windows are much higher than the cigar store's. The Budweiser sign looks weird cut off as well.
Jeff
But you are correct that the cigar store looks weird sticking over the sidewalk, plus a street lamp goes on the sidewalk here. I'll move it back, and use this two story building, though I may build another one (I think it's the Gemini Building from DPM), as this one is not my best effort, or try a different structure here facing the street. . Plus I can get a larger decal for the side to show onto the street, and it will better show the buildings on the street behind as the 3 story building really blocks them.
Thanks for your help, Mark.
Jeff
Or maybe two Downtown Deco kits here. The hardware store is also sold as a Tattoo shop which I have in the stash. I also have another of the skinny bar, which I'd build and leave the side sign off. Hmmm. Decisions, decisions. ::)
Jeff
Great stuff, Jeff.
I'm always a bit scare to speak up - not wanting to offend and all that - but I'm doing it more and more of late...
I agree completely about the monster modelworks structure. I once made a mock up which was modified from a set of scale plans in a MRR mag and put it in position next to my Heljan brewery kitbash. The brewery absolutely dwarfed it - made it look stupid and all out of scale - even though it was correct to the prototype. I blew the plans up 125% and redid the mock-up and it looked terrific - so I scratchbuilt the model at 125%. It has to 'look right' firstly.
I like the look and scale of the DD kits - but I wonder about taking out the small one and having an alleyway instead? Less is more and all that. They look a little crammed in as you have them...
Cheers, Mark.
A good 5 cent cigar.....does such a thing exist? Great job on the kit
Jeff. 8)
After looking at the photos and reading the comments about scale of the buildings, I tend to agree that the proportions of the brick building look a bit off. The theater next door seems to have the reverse problem, as it looks to be very narrow for what is supposed to be inside, basically a big room for an audience and a stage for the performers.
Because most modelers do not have an unlimited amount of space for their layouts, I believe a number of kit manufacturers adjust the dimensions of buildings to make them from getting to big for our little empires. I have not purchased a number of kits because the building width, length or height did not provide the room inside to meet the intent of the business occupying the building.
I suppose we need to be careful during the purchasing process that we take this matter into consideration. Just a thought.....
Road widths are always subject to "selective compression" ;D
dave
Jeff,
I spend a lot of time (too much maybe) looking at photos of buildings in small towns as I work on trying to find the best composition for my layout. I have noticed that buildings vary greatly in heights, probably due to when they were constructed, as well as the budget. Many early structures in the northeast had eight foot or lower ceiling heights. I ave read this was done to make them easier to heat. Others built in around the same time period or at a slightly later date had much higher ceilings, especially in commercial buildings. John Nehrich has written several pieces on the various types of architecture and how they impacted the look and size of structures.
All that said, I agree with Mark's basic point that structures, even though prototypical in size, need to be arranged on a layout so they compliment each other. If that means increasing or decreasing the size of the model proportionally, so be it. that's my two cents, and probably not worth the copper in the pennies...
Jerry
Quote from: Mark Dalrymple on January 20, 2024, 12:03:01 AMGreat stuff, Jeff.
I'm always a bit scare to speak up - not wanting to offend and all that - but I'm doing it more and more of late...
I agree completely about the monster modelworks structure. I once made a mock up which was modified from a set of scale plans in a MRR mag and put it in position next to my Heljan brewery kitbash. The brewery absolutely dwarfed it - made it look stupid and all out of scale - even though it was correct to the prototype. I blew the plans up 125% and redid the mock-up and it looked terrific - so I scratchbuilt the model at 125%. It has to 'look right' firstly.
I like the look and scale of the DD kits - but I wonder about taking out the small one and having an alleyway instead? Less is more and all that. They look a little crammed in as you have them...
Cheers, Mark.
I agree with Mark completely.
Sometimes buildings even though there the right scale just don't seem to fit together properly.
But your doing a fine job.
Jerry
Thanks for looking in, Greg. Considering the "films" the theatre shows, it's probably just big enough. :)
Jeff
Thanks for looking in Jerry and Jerry and your comments.
Jeff
You are correct again, Mark. I thought the space between them was a bit too wide, but I can fit a car in here, along with some trash. I like putting the police car here, maybe having them rough up some drunken miscreant. Thanks for your help. And keep on helping. :D I don't mind criticism, and your comments have really helped.
Jeff
Jeff,
I like the change to a smaller structure. Of course, I also agree about having a patrol car in the alley to "preserve the peace."
Tom
Great looking structure.
I really like this Jeff.
I went back to page 34 for a comparison and I think this works so much better. You could always add a row of bins and other such clutter to seemingly reduce the width of the alleyway if you feel it is necessary. Perhaps a park bench in front of that window? Maybe a tree in a grate? Proportions work very well.
Cheers, Mark.
Hi Tom. I kinda thought you would like to see a police car in that alley. :D
Jeff
Thanks, Curt.
Jeff
Mark, I think I'll have benches on both of the "inset" sidewalks now that the cigar store has moved back a bit. Some other clutter will fill the alley as well. Thanks again for the suggestion.
Jeff
The town needed some streetlights. I painted these months ago. They are made by Tichy. I drill a hole in the base and insert a wire. This placed in some styrofoam so they could be airbrushed. Also, I can drill a hole in the sidewalk for placement and if they lean a bit, just bend them up to straight.
Jeff
I then had to decide how far apart to make them. My first attempt had too many lights, the next blocked some of the theater marquis. Finally decided on placement and put them in place.
Jeff
There are still some hydrants, and a couple of mailboxes to add. LPs will come later.
Of course, I was being supervised the whole time.
Jeff
Replaced the town, hopefully for the last time. Needed to trim some of the scenery on the right edge as the gatorfoam base didn't quite fit. Next I need to finish the side street. I went back and forth between using some Monster Modelworks Cobblestones here, but thought between the paved town and Bailey's Produce parking lot it would look odd. So I used some thin plastic product called Sintra here, that I've used before for roads. Cut to fit. Now it's time to paint it and then hopefully weather it so it matches the streets.
Jeff
I will do the same for the extension of the street from the town over the mainline.
Jeff
I wouldn't worry too much about having the parking lot area match the street paving. Those would be done by two different contractors at two different times using two different mixes. Just be sure to do some dark asphalt filler between the street and the parking lot (and use that stuff to mark/fill in cracks in the asphalt mix on the street.)
dave
Looks good Jeff.....you're supervisor looks like a tough task manager. ;D
Yes, Dave. I think the parking lot and street don't need to match, but I wanted the intersection, which will be barely visible, and the lead in road to be close.
Jeff
Yes, Greg, she's a tough one.
Jeff
Great scene Jeff. I think the supervisor is taking a nap on the job!! ;D
Jerry
Yes, Jerry, she does sleep a lot.
While working on the road into the scene, I need to place the track for the siding. I got out the buildings to test fit this again. The flop house is used to block the hole in the wall that the trains pass thru. It looks OK from the front, but the side is not really working here. Also, to get it high enough, the road reaching it will be too steep.
Jeff
So I think I need something taller and wider. I have some DPM modules, but I think they look better as background buildings. I've been interested in using the ITLA scale models modules as well. So I downloaded their module sizes (each section is 3" x 9") and started measuring. A 3 x 12 building does a good job of blocking, again from the front, but needs a bit of an extension to work. So I cut a single 3x9 piece and it works pretty well here. I added a couple of trees at the edge of the town street, and this helps even a bit more. I'll probably just add some dirt and a small rise here and plant a couple of trees, making sure they clear the long passenger cars.
Jeff
The building even blocks the hole from eye level if you're right up against the layout. I suspect I'll add a angled back wall to fill some of the void. I'll leave this for a few days and see if I still like it before ordering the ITLA modules. I have another spot on the layout I thought of using these as well. I'll go study that spot while this sits.
Jeff
Love the street scene Jeff.
Nice progress, Jeff.
A few things that spring to mind: The Larger ITLA building might not scale well against the smaller city structures and kind of look out of proportion. Where do you envisage this road you are talking about going? While we are talking about roads - how do you see the city block connecting with the rest of the layout and the larger 'imagined' world? I like to get some coloured paper and cut out road pieces and mock them up in position. Remember - those roads can lead your eye into the various scenes and from one scene to another just as well as track can. I consider them a core part of design. Have you considered the flop house on a slope - with the back track side on a retaining wall next to the track and the front at the lower level? Does it need a road, or would pedestrian access suffice? If so you could easily add steps on the far side of the track and a pedestrian bridge crossing the track, hiding the track's disappearance into the backdrop with the aid of some carefully placed greenery. You could also bend a one way road to the left (from where you have the tree placed on the road) and then double back on itself to cross the track. This should gain sufficient height to cross the track with a one way road bridge. This is what I would imaging they would do in the prototype if road access was needed. Anyway - just thinking out loud.
Cheers, Mark.
Jeff,
Have you considered extending the mountain slightly into the triangular space behind the flop house? I think that might help to hide where the track enters the backdrop, as the tracks would be somewhat hidden in the cut.
I do like Mark's suggestion for a retaining wall to elevate the structure you are using to help hide the backdrop opening. I think that would act similarly to placing the track in a cut.
I also wondered if you had considered curving the spur serving the feed mill to follow the curve in the main line track. That would allow you to move the coal silos further back to a spot where they, too, would help hide the hole in the backdrop.
Hi, Mark. Thanks for commenting. This morning looking at it, I realized it does look too big for the total scene. The road to the flop house was to go between the silos and the low building on the right. The town connects to the road in the picture 1785 above where the white gatorfoam passes the little blue building. this will go straight off the layout.
Jeff
Thanks for looking in, Jerry. I originally thought about extending the hill as you suggested, and may go back to that thinking. Curving the track was something I never considered. I will try that out tomorrow as I'm at work today. Maybe a not so huge structure at the end of the siding where the flop house is now would work, with a hill behind it.
Thanks for the input and ideas, guys, I'll play with this over the next couple of days.
Jeff
You're right about the structure being large Jeff, but I remember going through small towns in the midwest and those businesses usually dwarfed the rest of the one and two story buildings in community.....just a thought.
Great modeling Jeff.
Thanks for watching Curt and Greg. I've been moving stuff around for a couple of days. Curving the siding and eliminating the flop house made for some interesting possibilities. First I made "Mount Towel" as a straight on view block, moving the silos and large building a bit to the right. This isn't perfect, but not bad. Flipping the silos and main structure looked a bit worse.
Jeff
Next, I mocked up the rear wall of another ITLA structure kit I have here. It's much smaller, not near as overpowering as the modular mock up, but doesn't cover the hole quite as well as I'd like.
Jeff
Finally, I "cut down" the ITLA modular structure by one story. This is much better to scale and covers the area quite well.
The final shot is an overall look at the area, comparing all the building heights. Another advantage to moving the siding and eliminating the flop house is that now there's a big area in the front for a structure. I could remove the green roof building and maybe put an FSM kit in here. Hmmm... I'll sit on these ideas for a few days and see how I like them.
Jeff
Yeah, that looks good. A water tank on the roof would add interest, be appropriate, and probably add balance to the scene, too.
dave
Thanks, Dave. Yes, a water tower on the roof would add more interest.
Jeff
To make sure everything lines up, and I need to make the road grade crossing, I temporarily installed a piece of track for the siding. The building clears my longest passenger cars, but I should probably get a couple of steamers past this as well. Note there was a derailment when the locos picked the switch on the left. The tortoise which was hot glued here had fallen off and was only held on by some tape. :o This was removed and will need to be re installed.
Jeff
Jeff,
I like the way this is coming together. I think removing a floor form the ITLA building (cardboard mockup) fits the scene well since you reduced its height. From your photos it looks like it does a nice job hiding the spot where the track goes through the backdrop.
Jeff,
Great progress. The road will look fantastic crossing the tracks.
Tom
Back at it after a few months hiatus. The ITLA building is finished except for some roof details. In order to get the streets painted the siding needs to be in place. I cut some gatorfoam and glued it to the styrofoam for a base. The structures were put in place along with some cars to see how things would fit. I've switched from the pictures above moving the coaling towers between the two large structures as otherwise they block the view of the town.
I got out the Myer's kit instructions to check on how the silos need placement (there's a coal conveyor that goes to the track for loading coal under the track which will need some cutting of the gatorfoam. I can't believe I built this kit 10 years ago and it still isn't finished!
Jeff
The siding is code 70 (versus 83 on the mainline) and is lower as well. I don't want the transition at the joint between the two as that will probably lead to operating issues.
Jeff
Made some shims from plastic sheet, made sure it was level (battery needed changing in the level as I probably haven't used it for at least 5 years), and glued in place. Next up will be attaching the siding. Then will have to paint it, etc, etc.
Jeff
Glued the track down as well as this small piece of track at the crossing before spray painting the track.
Jeff
Next up was the road. I used some strathmore board for this. I already had some precut road width pieces. I painted the track tops with some rust colored paint with drying retardant added. I then carefully positioned the piece of board and pressed it onto the track, transferring the paint to the board. It was easy to remove the paint from the rails with a swab.
Jeff
The pieces were then cut and fitted. The fitting took awhile, as I adjusted them so they first fit, then so there would be wheel clearance for the flanges . Then I added two similar pieces to bring it up to near rail height. I tested with plain trucks and then a boxcar.
Jeff
Using two tiny dabs of glue, I placed the piece between the mainline rails to further test. The trains have to run perfectly, scenic considerations are secondary. I ran some diesels, big steam, little steam, light 2 bay hoppers, and several finicky passenger cars through it forward and backward, slow and at "Greg Speed" ;D . No derailments. Next the pieces will be spray painted grey.
Jeff
Looking really good.
Jim
Thanks for looking in, Jim.
The next step was doing the street between the town and Produce market. This was masked off, spray painted grey and then Pan Pastels used for coloring. I need to figure out striping for the new streets. I used a stencil and hand painted the others, but they didn't turn out great. I may try a decal instead. Anyway the street needs a bit of lightening.
Jeff
I then installed the rest of the sidewalks. Placing the buildings at the end of the street, there is a gap.
Jeff
I thought a dirt lot with a car parked here might work, but there's supposed to be two tracks here, which go nowhere, so I used the buildings to block this. I had an extra "First Timer Bar" that was a freebie from Downtown Deco and built it in a few days. It fits pretty well, I think the gap will be blocked by a bush and tree.
It has no door, but it's really not noticeable from the aisle.
Jeff
I painted and installed the piece of track from the Produce Store as well. Now I need to make some ground goop and sculptamold to finish this area. Then paint/grass/bushes/trees.
Jeff
Jeff,
The Empire is looking great. I like the method you used to mark the road crossing. I've used a similar method using 2 ply cardboard.
The Empire is coming together very nicely.
Tom
Thanks, Tom. I'm slowly progressing forward. Need to check my scenery materials as there's a Scenic Express sale going on.
Jeff
Good to see you working on the Empire Jeff. Looking good!
Nice job one the produce store. What a fun little (okay, maybe not so little) kit! Love it. ;)
Good to see you, John. Thanks for looking in.
Jeff
Hi, Bob. The Bailey's produce was a group build from many years ago. It fits well here.
Jeff
Looks great, Jeff.
What colour/ brand did you use for the green roof? Has there been an earthquake? I notice the chimney has had an accident...
Cheers, Mark.
Jeff, the FSM Baileys looks great with that green roof and the rusted panels are top notch too....Tommy
Sorry, Mark. I've looked back ( built this twelve years ago :o) ), the trim was Polly S depot olive, but the panels aren't quite the same color and I either airbrushed or found a spray can to color them, but I don't know what the color was.
I'm sure I knocked the chimney over moving the diorama on and off the layout. It's semi permanently installed now, but I have to do some scenery work around and behind it, so I'll cover it with a towel when doing that and would probably knock it off again, so I'll leave for now.
Jeff
Thanks, Tommy. I think on the old forum 3 or 4 of us built this structure at the same time as a group build. It was just under a three month build for me, which is record time.
Jeff
I remember the build, it looks great on the layout Jeff..... 8)