Nail holes in clapboard siding

[Willwood42]

If a wall made of clapboard siding has end trim, would the trim hide the first column of nail holes, or would they appear just inside the trim?

Thanks  -david

[rpdylan]

Are you talking about the corner posts? What I do is put the holes in close to the edge before I glue the corner posts to the wall.  A great DVD to watch is Foscale's Bob Mitchell modelng.  Lots of great tips and Bob is really entertaining.

Bob C.

[bparrish]

David...

The answer, if I understand the question, would be yes.  There would be no need to reveal the nails and most carpenters would have done what they could to hide the nails.  Further, in before building code balloon framing, there would have been no 2x4 beyond the corner molding so hook a nail into.

To go a step further, clap boarding was rather like ship lapping and there would only be one nail about a half inch up from the bottom edge.  The upper edge nail was hidden by the next lap up.

In HO the nail holes are really easy to scale too big.  Try an experiment with the board provided in the kit.  Take a scrap and poke some holes where you expect to put them.  Then swell them back close with alcohol.  This will not affect any coloring you put over them  That should run them back to scale.

See what you think. It's only a scrap test.

see ya
Bob

[martin.ojaste]

Bob,


Hmmm, interesting. I think the nailing pattern is area dependant and the width of the clapboard. I could see if the clapboard was only 4" wide the nailing you mention as being cirrect(or). When the boards were 8,10 or 12", two nails would not be enough. Three to four nails would normal for those widths.


As for the corners, I used to renovate Ballon constructed houses and the corners were often three posts and an addition one for nailing strapping for the brown coat. This would allow putting the corner trim on first and butting the clapboard against it. So you would see nails at the ends of the clapboards and in the corner trim.


So it depends the geographical location where the nail holes go, or just what looks better.

[oldbloodhound]

Yes, the nailing would be what part of the country you are in.  In the east, clapboards are installed after the corner trim has been applied.  The clapboards are butted up to the corner trim and a nail IS put into the lower 1".
Clapboards are never 8/10/12 inches wide and only the bottom edge gets nailed.  Because the clapboards overlap one another, any nails into the middle will cause the board to split because they are not tight to the sub-siding (sheathing).  Generally the clapboards are nailed over the stud location but at the ends where there is not stud (used to be a wide corner post) they just nail into the sheathing.
Now on Western siding, it was customary to install the siding first and THEN  nail the corner boards on top of the siding.  In that case, the end nails would not show.

Now, if you are painting the building then the nails won't show anyways.  So don't spend time making hundreds of nail holes if not visible after being painted.

[Willwood42]

Thanks for all the information.

I went out looking at some old derelict buildings in my area the other day and for many you couldn't even see the nails unless you were fairly close. 

[martin.ojaste]

For the wider clapboards, the lower thicker edge was rabbited to overlap the lower board. This makes the wider boards lie flat against the wall, ergo no splitting.


Agreed, if you are painting it only, skip the nail holes.

[bparrish]

OK gents.............  Here's a question.

Having to do with corner covering .....

I can't figure out why lap siding would be butted up against the corner covers.  It is the corner covers that make the corner joint sort of weather tight.

On vinyl lap siding the siding is not even nailed tight as linear expansion is a BIG issue.  There are elongated holes that the siding literally hangs on.  The bottom edge zips into the next line down.  They use the corner moldings to allow for the vinyl to go someplace and not buckle.

In the west there was a sawdust composition material that was available in ten or twelve inch wide panels.  It was popular here in the 1970's and early 80's.  It is now a four way flasher for dating a house as you drive by.  It is no longer available (mercifully) as it failed easily when wet at the lower panels near the ground. They did have a pre set mailing pattern for that and then every thing was caulked over.  No nails appeared............ initially.

So Martin, on the siding you mentioned, how do they make the ends water tight?

thanx
Bob

[Mike Engler]

This is maybe the fiftieth thread I have seen over the years regarding nailholes. My take is that it really gets down to personal preference as to whether you try to model them or not, since if they were the right scale in HO you probably wouldn't be able to see them.


I used to put them on most structures but lately haven't been doing them. I have to say that done neatly, and not done with a pounce wheel (that can leave rectangular holes), they can look pretty cool. There have been lots of photos of prototype structures posted  showing both visible and invisible nail holes.

[martin.ojaste]

Bob,


The ends did suffer a bit a bit from rot, but no more than normal. I saw tar paper wrapped around the corners under the corner trim and about 6" under the clapboard. (in newer buildings, i.e.: 60 years old, the whole wall was tar papered and clapboard filed over it. In many cases chalking (putty) was applied at the end joins.


This is not different from applying the corner trim over the clapboard. There is a little triangular sliver gap between the trim and clapboard where water could collect and rot the wood. I suspect putty would have been applied the same way.

[bparrish]

Martin .....

Great

Thanx
Bob

[Oldguy]

As far as nail holes, I guess it would depend on building age and if it had ever been painted or not and environmental exposures.  As to the corners, it can go either way depending upon the builders preference.  From Shorpy, here is an old farm house where the nails are very evident and the corners have been treated both ways.   A lot of details in this little photo.

[bparrish]

Bob...

I suppose this photo just stirs the pot.  I recall the saying that there is a prototype for everything.

Great photo.

thanx
Bob

[martin.ojaste]

Love the photo - proves we all are right

[donatode]