New York, Vermont & Northern Rwy. (HOn3 coal line + HOn30 Quarry Line)

[Bernd]

Jim, Gregory, Craig, Jerry, Tom & John thanks for commenting much appreciated. Glad I can bring back some memories for some of you. Ya, it's not a bad place to live considering the taxes. Best thing is we have a place in the 1000 Islands that we will be spending lots of time at. Wife retired this year so no hurrying home on the weekends. I'm going to have to get a second set of tools to work on projects while up there.

While I was using Google Earth I looked at what the Junction looks like today. There are trees growing where the station once stood.



This next section will describe the line from the LV Station to the Charlotte Coal Dock. This picture is an Earth Google view. The yellow line encircles what was the LV's Rochester yard. I'd estimate that the yard was close to 2 miles long.



This is how the line will continue following the river edge. The line will use the subway tracks and cross the river on the double deck Broadway Bridge.



The line will follow the river north. The "X" at the bottom is the station and the "X" at the top is the coal dock. I estimate the distance to be 3 to 5 miles through the city. My intentions are to follow the river up by the buildings near the edge.



Next pictures show the almost finished construction of the double deck bridge. Also note the library has not been built yet. The mill race has been blocked off.





In this picture that looks like an unfinished bridge is actually a loop for the trolley line.



A post card of the bridge.



This map shows the rail lines crossing the bridge and the two loops. The one that was shown a previous picture.



This is what the area looked like before renovation. The growth of trees and brush over the years is evident that nothing was done in quite a while. Never knew there was a windmill there either.







This leads us into the so called Tunnel, which basically is going under the library and under the roadway across the bridge.
A couple of pictures looking north. About where the black building with the round top is called the Upper Falls. A bit further down the river is the famous Genesee Beer Co.





One last parting shot of the station. You are looking south with the station in the upper left hand corner with the library to the left of the station. Note the arches under the library. This is where the mill raceway water exists back into the river.



Now for a quick ride down to the coal trestle. We'll start off across the river for a look at how large the coal dock was. The year was 1925. You can see two ships, one getting loaded with coal and the other is the ferry between Rochester and Cobourg (/'koːbə˞g/) , Ontario, Canada. IIRC they had steel mills up there somewhere in Cobourg.



A couple of pictures of the ferry slip. This gives me another area to exchange a lot of different cars, plus passengers.





Empty hoppers being pushed up grade and it is a steep grade. I have not yet found out how steep it actually was. It seems like no one can remember.



A ship being loaded. The two buildings The one closest to the camera is the Genesee Dock Station. The other one is Customs & Immigration and Passenger Landing. A stairway and walkway over the tracks for boat boarding so switching could continue while passengers boarded the boat or got off the boat. Some interesting modeling projects here.



View of the dock with the kick back track way in the distance and the sloped track to bring the cars back down. Note the track under the trestle. This lead to a small yard.



Better view of the return track, note the derail. Also note the track on the level ground is gone.



In this picture you can still see track going under the sloped trestle. Still trying to figure out how they slowed the cars down after the kick back track.



Another view of the top of the coal trestle.





View of the yard at river level. The picture is fuzzy because I had to blow it up from 300 pixels by 234 pixels, but it gives an idea of the yard that was at river level.



Ontario No.1 was one to two ferries that plied the waters between Rochester and Cobourg.



Two ships in port. Don't know if they are unloading or loading passengers. Maybe both since the boat behind is not tied up at the coal chutes.



The ferry slip apron is no longer there. This doesn't look like a coal carrying boat. I think they use this portion to turn the boats before they tied up at the mouth of the river docks.



This is a Google Earth picture. There always was a bulk cement plant here. They now use pipes to unload the boats. The ferry slip is almost nonexistent. Red arrow.



I was lucky to find a track diagram of the coal dock. I can faithfully reproduce the track plan at a condensed version.



This will close the concept of the fictional railroad that will be modeled. The line is longer and I'm only going to model the Rochester Branch portion of my fictional line. The Hemlock lake branch is still being contemplated with the concept of that part running to a lumber transfer facility at the lake. As I said in the beginning the line ran from the southern coal mining states to the New England states hauling coal north. That's the main theme. Forrest products, fish products, potatoes and other products head south. The main line heads east through Manchester, New York which was a division point. A large engine facility was located there. The line then headed east to Geneva, New York and then headed south to Sayre, PA. In Geneva is where the NYV & N Rwy. keeps heading east into the New England states. I figured the most northern end will be up in Portland Maine on the cost line.

This is the most I've ever thought about the concept of the layout. I've probably wandered off the track a bit here and there but I think I have it down to what I want. I have certain areas in mind for modeling but they will not be 100% replicated.

Next post I'll start on the limestone quarry. That already has two structures under construction and some track configured.

So until next time.

Bernd.

[Mark Dalrymple]

Terrific stuff Bernd.

Some wonderful photos there!

Cheers, Mark.

[ACL1504]

Bernd,

Fantastic pictorial and history on the area. The photos also really bring it all together.

Tom 

[nycjeff]

Bernd, what a great history lesson through pictures. It was a lot of fun looking at all of them. You were right when you said there were a lot of modeling opportunities there. You could easily fill up your whole basement with great railroad scenes. Nice job.   Jeff

[PRR Modeler]

Great photos Bernd.

[Bernd]

Mark, Tom, Jeff and Curt thanks for the nice words. Ya, I hope I can build something that resembles the pictures. I've had this in my head for years. For some reason I just can't put it all down on paper as a drawing. I work best with an idea and then just doing it from thoughts so to speak. At times I need to restart several times.

You're right Jeff, I could fill up the whole basement. Trouble is 20 years of accumulating "stuff" has taken a toll on space. I was looking at all that "stuff" and figured it was time to purge this coming summer to make room for a layout. I'm even contemplating a double deck if I need more room.

Anybody interested in any stuff here?



You only have to pay for shipping.   

Bernd

[S&S RR]

Bernd


I just got caught up on your build thread.  Wow - great pictures. A couple things that you said stuck with me as I was looking through this huge project.  I'm 70 and I wonder how far I will get. I'm thinking of a double deck layout if I need more space. 


When I decided to add my Superior Yard to my layout a couple years ago I had the same thoughts going through my head.  I decided to go ahead with the lower level in the expansion area and design it so I could add the upper level if I needed the space later.  If you take a look at the Superior Yard build section of my layout thread I think you will see how I did this.  Let me know if you have any questions.

[Bernd]

Bernd

I just got caught up on your build thread.  Wow - great pictures. A couple things that you said stuck with me as I was looking through this huge project.  I'm 70 and I wonder how far I will get. I'm thinking of a double deck layout if I need more space. 

I like to use pictures more than words since I'm a little lazy in typing with the two finger hunt peck system. I figure a short explanation and the rest can be gotten from the pictures. I like the though of having the option of going double deck if I need. Hey at this point I guess it doesn't matter if it gets finished. I'm just looking forward to actually building a layout. If it gets done great, if it doesn't, oh well.

When I decided to add my Superior Yard to my layout a couple years ago I had the same thoughts going through my head.  I decided to go ahead with the lower level in the expansion area and design it so I could add the upper level if I needed the space later.  If you take a look at the Superior Yard build section of my layout thread I think you will see how I did this.  Let me know if you have any questions.

I've been following your layout build since I found this forum over a year ago. So I know what you're saying and am getting ideas from your build.

I did a quick picture of the basement architectural plans . It's got some dimensions on it and may help you figure out size. I've outlined the area available for the layout, my shop, the wood/metal shop area and the office/model shop. You got me interested in drawing up a CAD drawing of the basement layout with some dimensions now.

No questions yet. You've pretty well explained it all in words and pictures.



Bernd

[Mark Dalrymple]

Great layout space, Bernd.

So around 958' squared (89m2)?  That's a lot of layout.

I have 635' feet.  Most people seem surprised when they ask when I think I'll be finished and I reply "it would nice to be finished before I'm dead".

Cheers, Mark.

[deemery]

Do you have a sink down there?  Half the expense ($40k total) of finishing my basement went into the 3/4 bath, including the up-flushing system to move the waste water to the septic system.  (The marginal cost to add a shower was small, and that makes the space usable as an extra bedroom/guest room for a future occupant.  There's no 2nd exit, so it's not a legal bedroom, but what a homeowner does with the space is their business....)

The strange thing was the building code requirement for the up-flushing system.  If we used a grinder system, building code required an external (to the house) connection to the septic.  But if we used a 'chunk chucker' system, there was no such requirement.  The plumber and I looked at each other and said, "That makes no sense at all!" and connected that to the waste piping within the basement.  I think if we had to do the external connection, that would have added as much as $10k to the cost.

dave

[Bernd]

Great layout space, Bernd.

So around 958' squared (89m2)?  That's a lot of layout.

I have 635' feet.  Most people seem surprised when they ask when I think I'll be finished and I reply "it would nice to be finished before I'm dead".

Cheers, Mark.

Thanks Mark.

Ya, lots of space. All I need to do is get rid of all the stuff that now sits in that 958sq. ft. I've already started to move stuff around. Can't wait till spring to start taking stuff to the transfer station.

I like your answer. I'm going to have to commendire  that answer.

Bernd

[Bernd]

Do you have a sink down there?

dave

No Dave, I don't have any comfort immensities in the basement. I never gave it any thought in designing the house plan. I figure two baths upstairs id good enough. I usually take stuff upstairs to the kitchen sink. In the summer I go outside and use a hose.

Bernd

[deemery]

Once you have a sink in/near the workshop, it's hard to be without it!  My previous workshop was set up next to the hot water heater and associated floor drain (town sewer, not septic.)  It was easy to add a (non-conforming) sink that got water from the lines for the water heater with the drain pipe above the floor drain 


dave

[Bernd]

Once you have a sink in/near the workshop, it's hard to be without it!  My previous workshop was set up next to the hot water heater and associated floor drain (town sewer, not septic.)  It was easy to add a (non-conforming) sink that got water from the lines for the water heater with the drain pipe above the floor drain 

dave

I have instantaneous water hearts to supply hot water to each of the bath rooms and kitchen. So I only needed to run a cold water line to spots under each of the bath rooms and kitchen. So I have 3 separate water heaters. I do have access to cold water in the basement though. So far I haven' missed having hot water so I guess I'll be fine.

Bernd

[Bernd]

Found a few more pictures of the coal dock at Charlotte.

That kick back didn't work at times. Heck of a way to unload a hopper.



And that derail works well too!





Definitely not going to model that. It'll probably happen all on its own anyway.

Bernd