Open to suggestions and ideas

[Twopoint2]

Hello everyone, I build this shelf switching layout several years ago, its 16' x 14" the surface is 45" from the floor and the valance is 20" above that. Put up backdrop and painted Horizon Haze, used plywood and homasote for base and painted it Brown. Built a bunch of background kits (not very well)  placed them out on the layout and started laying track with no real track plan to go by. What should I change on the track plan or should I take it all up and start over? What kind of craftsman kits would look good on this kind of layout? I'm looking for a busy industrial area in the 1950-1970 era. Any thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated.

[GPdemayo]

Hi Jim and welcome to the forum. 


If you really like the track plan, keep it and build some kits that for industries that would fit into your existing plan.


If you don't have strong feelings about it, tear it out and redo it. Do whatever makes you the happiest.


Good luck with whatever you decide and remember.....we love pictures! 


We have the king of "build it, tear it up and modify it and tear it all out and start over again" here on the forum. Check out ACL1504's "The Atlantic & Southern Railroad" thread to see how a master does it.

[ReadingBob]

I'm probably the last person on this forum that could (or should) give you any tips on track plans.     I like the overall concept of what you've done though.  If I were to attempt something like that, and I have given doing it some thought, I might have one or two areas where a street crosses over the tracks and there are structures facing the street on both sides of the street (a sideview of the structures to the viewer).  I'd probably have the street run at a slight angle across the tracks and the diorama, not at 90 degrees, to everything but not far from it.  It would require a short stretch of single or double main line track but it would give you some room for a few structures and break up the scene(s) just a little bit.

As far as background flats there are some great kit's available from FOS, Downtown Deco, Bar Mills and Imagine That Laser Arts.

Greg mentioned that Tom (ACL1504) is the king of "build it, tear it up and modify it and tear it all out and start over again".  He forgot that John (Cuse) isn't all that far behind Tom.  Check out hisBackwoods NE in Florida thread.  John's on at least his third iteration of a layout since I've known him and that includes switching scales. 

[jerryrbeach]

Jim,
I suggest browsing through as many photos of urban shelf layouts as you can find.  I've attached a link to photos of Jerry Strangarity's excellent layout.  Especially check out his Philadelphia scenes.  The way Jerry has laid his track may give you some ideas on how to improve yours.  The F&SM thread on this forum is another excellent resource.  While not a shelf layout, the way George breaks up his scenes with overpasses and structures is an education in itself.
Fourteen inches is a pretty narrow shelf, I would suggest using some photo backdrop buildings to add depth to your low relief structures.  Railroad Graphics sells discs of backdrop photos you print yourself.  Kingmill Enterprises has some great background photos.  I think if you add some taller structures in the background you will find the layout will look more "citified". 
Don't forget to plan some foreground structures to add depth and interest to your scenes.
http://www.readingmodeler.com/index.php/photos/jerry-strangaritys-reading-layout
Jerry

[ACL1504]

Jim,

First, a big welcome to the forum. Greg, Bob and Jerry have certainly given you some food for thought and great ideas. The bottom line is take what you like, use it and go from there. Not much else to add at this point.

Tom

[cuse]

Jim,
I really like the basic layout. I really like the benchwork style with the "picture frame" effect above and below and the controlled lighting. I have recently switched from a more conventional layout to something more like yours. I think it has more of an exhibit feel, which appeals to me. Some things you might consider (just my own preferences)...
-some sort of drapery hanging or dark cabinetry with doors to the floor will enhance the "exhibit" effect and give you neat hidden storage under the layout.
-I really like flats along the back. Like Bob said, Fos Scale and others make some great ones with a lot of character (less "boxy")...if the wooden structures fit your vision and era
-Depending on your plans for operation, I would rip out a few of the foreground sidings...just enough to fit a few smallish structures and scrap piles. It won't take many to diminish the background only feel.
-Plan a few really interesting flatcars with loads, or a snowplow, or other MOW cars to be parked on a foreground siding. These can have the effect of structures in themselves. Also, some great isolated trees can be as interesting as a structure. You might take a look at Scenic Express' Super Sage pieces to make really neat individual dead trees with surrounding trash, etc.
-Find pics of Jon Addison's Silverton Central (it presently resides at the Suncoast Center). He has some really interesting little "pockets" of detail, clutter, foliage, etc on a simple, narrow layout.
-My own preference over time has been away from short, "choppy" sidings. Nice, long sidings are more realistic looking and can allow you to space out your displayed rolling stock. Short sidings tend to look like a train set. However, if you need to squeeze in lots of destinations for operation-do what you gotta do. Make sure you can "explain" the purpose of each track or scene. I don't care a bit about realistic operation or prototype compliance...I have just found that realistic tends to look right to me.
-Resist the urge to cram stuff in. If vehicles can't turn around or park, for example, or a road is only 10' wide...it just won't look right...there's no substitute for space. Open areas with litter, an abandoned vehicle, Bar Mills Insta-fence, some spilled bricks or lumber, stacks of ties, overgrown weeds, etc can be fascinating. I'm having a hard time resisting structures, but I'm observing this concept again and again as I study layouts that appeal to me online.
...Good luck. As I said, I really like the basic concept. My own priority is to build an operating scenic display, not an operating railroad, so my ideas may not apply to yours. Check out my thread on here..."Backwoods NE in Florida" or something like that.


John

[Mark Dalrymple]

Hi Jim.

The first thing I would look at was whether it was possible to alter the track work into a very lazy S-shape.  This would give the greatest opportunity to angle many of your background structures against the backdrop and give a little more space to step walls in and out.  This would help to disguise the present 'flat' appearance and would also eliminate the track paralleling the layout front - which would all help to give the illusion of greater depth.  I would also look at stripping the track-work back to only what is needed (which you may have already done) to allow more space for some structures coming further forward into the layout.  Track-work going into structures could also help with this as well as some covered loading areas.  I would also look at  more height changes in the structures, but with an eye to overall balance.  Angled roads as mentioned earlier, will help to lead the eye into the scene.  I would suggest looking through some of Iain Rice's smaller track-plans to get some ideas on nice flowing curved track-work.  Hope this is of some help.

Cheers, Mark.

[Twopoint2]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. Guess i'm going to look around on the web and put pencil to paper and come up with a trackplan that I will be happy with. Maybe I should build some more kits and play around with a track plan for awhile. Thanks again and looking forward to the Expo.

[jbvb]

If you have an idea of what part of the country you want to model, I suggest looking for aerial photos and prototype track plans.  Track Charts and plans available on-line or on CDs from fans cover a lot of this (this site covers much of the Northeast: http://www.nmro.org/ ).  One thing I see looking at your current plan is tracks that aren't parallel and tracks whose purpose I can't easily guess.  Industrial districts full of substantial multi-story buildings had high enough land costs that the RR wouldn't waste space.  And track construction/maintenance costs were also watched closely.

Applying this to your existing RR, I see 4 or 5 different places where you can run around a car.  The front center sidings could be used as a yard for arriving/departing transfer runs, but the tracks seem to weave around for reasons that aren't shown (non-RR buildings?  watercourses?).

Mark is right that curves can improve the looks of a shelf layout, but note that his Aerated Water industrial area is all about squeezing tracks into a hilly river valley densely filled with buildings which were built in different eras as the RR service to the plant evolved with the industry.  Flat industrial areas were found in Chicago, Kansas City, parts of Milwaukee, LA etc., some with distinctive styles of industrial architecture.  NYC, SFO, Baltimore and Philadelphia industrial areas were mainly along waterfront.  The Beer Line in Milwaukee went up a river valley, with lots of multi-level scenes.  New England mill towns were sometimes flat, but more often built along the river that powered them