80 Ton Shay on 14" curves

[JusticeCity]

Animations! I may be crazy, cute and colourful, but I'm not animated    

I thought of it, but it is too much of a challenge this year. Get it to stay on the track is job one, if possible.

[JusticeCity]

Oh well,

See what has happened to the Shay ...

https://youtu.be/O4lu-C-IWxw

[tct855]

Marty,

Sorry to hear you gave up on having a working shay.  I feel your pain, sir.  I went through all that years ago, on all the things you're going through now.  Curious, what is the radius of the track you were having this issue with?  And is it across your layout or just one area or spot? I forget if you mentioned that before.  Thanx Thom...

[JusticeCity]

Check out the title

There are two tracks both at the same end.

[tct855]

Marty,
Ha, I'm blind and stupid.  I went back to the first post and refreshed myself.  Looking at your trackage on the video.  It looks like you might have a kink in the radius what I'd like to suggest is use the curved inside gauge radius tool and it should find the bind in the trackage.

Also once found or whether or not I would take a hot iron and at the location where you derail, heat up the inside rail only and melt the ties slightly and open the gauge a little.  This should allow your engine to track better possibly without derailing.

It's worth giving a last college try before storing your engine in the never again box.  Just sayin', before you take your ball and go home.  Thanx Thom...

[JusticeCity]

Thom,

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you.

This is what the track looks like.



The tightest radius is 14.5" at the entrance and exit from the turn. The centre is about 15" in the middle.

[tct855]

Marty,

Brother, no apologies sir.  Modeling & Building are not a sprint race.   Great to see your top view.  I better understand why your curve is the way it is.  Here's what I'm noticing (not a criticism).  On the left side of the picture, your trackage is spaced farther apart from the parallel trackage than the right side is apart from that parallel trackage.

Also, I notice (what looks to me) to be two small kinks, just to the left of your radius center line and a little farther to the right of your center (or apex) line.  I'm still thinking a ribbon curved track alignment tool for your 15" or 14.5" radius should be used to verify for any slight kinks.

Your photo with radius graph next to track looks to me showing your trackage (looks to me) curve is not consistent.  If your engine is running into your curve and at the same point it starts to derail and coming from the other direction (again facing the opposite direction it derails around the same area, then there's got to be a tiny influx which is right at your loco's limit.  Just saying.

Again, not a criticism, just logically helping to troubleshoot.  Let me know what you find.  Thanx Thom...

[JusticeCity]

Yup, I see them, so I am ripping the track out and re-laying it.

I did look for radius curve templates around here when I first laid the track, but there were none available. I looked online and most places were out of stock, and still out of stock when I checked today. It is crazy that a $9.99 US part has $20-$40 US shipping costs.

So I will return to my template and make sure I follow it more closely.

(BTW: all my other locos and freight cars handle the curve just fine. Its that shay that is de-railing.)

[bparrish]

Marty...

I know I'm just now dropping in on this but the overhead photo is REALLY helpful.

Both radii can be modified to a higher number.  In your photo you show a scale ruler...... that inner curve could start back there and finish to the right in a slightly different location.

The track with the turnout (appears to be a #6) could start pulling into a curve sooner also.

Unless you are set on those tracks being absolutely parallel, this shouldn't be a problem to rectify.

This is the stuff a forum like this is best at helping with.

Model on ! ! !

see  ya
Bob

[JusticeCity]

Thanks for all the suggestions, they were helpful.

I did tons of "modifications" to this Shay to get it to fit around the 14" radius. The changes varied from lowering the trucks, re-wiring, shortening the drive shafts, replacing the gears/side thingys, shaving the tender front edge, narrowing the tender linkage, shortening the tender linkage and general futzing to get it to squeeze around a variable radius track (which I re-hand laid to a 14" outside rail radius.

With all ot this, it still de-railed!

Then I solved the problem!

The track has a 2-3% grade coming up to the curve, but is flat for 8" before the curve. The curve has a "slight" (1/16") inward slope to add some character to the scene. So when the Shay backs up the hill, the rear knuckle hangy thingy just "picks" into the of the outer rail. This stops the tender and the everything begins to de-rail. If it goes forward up the hill the front knuckle is high enough to miss the rails.

Before you ask, yes I did adjust the knuckle height when I git the Shay, but neglected to re-adjust after lowering the tender height. Me bad.

So I cut a piece off the rear knucke and everthing is fine and it works. (Video to follow after I finish celebrating.)

Again, thanks for all your help.

[tct855]

Marty,

       Congrats brother!  Because you stuck it out and prevailed.   You are what I call a true modeler and more importantly are not a quitter.  You DA Man!  Thanx Thom...