80 Ton Shay on 14" curves

[JusticeCity]

Can it be done?

The Justice City Diorama has a couple 14"-15" curves that the Shay needs to pass through. I really had no choice but to use the tight curves if I wanted to do what I wanted to do. So I am going to start the process of butchering the shay to fit the curve and look good doing it. The odds are against me, wish me luck.

https://youtu.be/-eWNd71R6b0

[ACL1504]

Marty,

Okay, good luck. However, I don't think you'll need it as I'm quite confident you'll "get er dun".

Tom

[jimmillho]

Marty

This looks like something that is right up your alley and I know you can dot it.

Jim

[tct855]

Marty,
We're all pulling for you. You can do it!  T...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ2HcRl4wSk

[JusticeCity]

Thanks guys. I thought it would be a challenge, and it is turning out to be.

It is getting crazy here; the gear driveshafts out of alignment, too many wire joins and lots of sloppy workmanship. Who was the idiot who created all this mess?

https://youtu.be/IrvAPHGyGDo

[postalkarl]

Hey Marty:

Good luck:

Karl

[tct855]

Imagine for a minute all,

Here's is a prime example of what really goes on when a modeler sends out a model to a builder and says my engine jumps the track on curves, give me a good price, and when the final bill comes, there's a whole new story (sometimes a novel).

So now those of us who are in the "know" have to go through everything or otherwise the modeler receives an engine that can go around curves but doesn't pull or run smoothly for another reason.

One should always praise their engine builder who pays attention to all the details.  For he who doesn't know how too, will simply be owning a collection of shelf queens. 

Go Marty go!   Thanx Thom...

[7thStreetShops]

Wait a minute!!

Have you considered the option of simply making the Drawbar between the tender and engine longer? The drive shaft is long enough that it can afford the few hundredths of an inch needed to allow clearance. I don't have one of these models in front of me so I can't say how to do it (I'll look at one at NWSL on Monday) but rather than hack the model why not at least explore a more flexible option (pardon the pun). Drawbars can be hand made (or even redesigned) which makes the "Try, Try Again" approach possible. Hacking material off the model is a lot harder to fix if it doesn't go well! The only question about this approach is how will it affect the drive shaft when in a curve to the opposite direction!

Hopefully you have not already cut the model....

[tct855]

Derrell,
You bring up a good point for sure.  I've done 4 of these plastic/cast versions with this problem.  The first & third ones I did what Marty did.  The second one I tried your method on the drawbar and had to redo the shaft because it kept binding up at times on outside curves going into switches. Not sure why it didn't happen every time tho, just pulling 4+ cars.

The fourth I spent all kinds of time tinkering with a combination of both methods and finally figured the first was best for time spent vs ingenuity.  I have one more to get to at the end of this year.

I'm open to any new suggestions always. But the same things happened on all when it came to having to rework the truck pickups, big wires, and just needing space to work.  My two brass didn't give me any clearance on curve issues at all. Of course, they had entirely other common problems, but that's another movie.
                                                                                                                                                                                      Thanx Thom...

[JusticeCity]

This is getting interesting...

https://youtu.be/L7p1cFEnRlc

[7thStreetShops]

Marty, this video only confirms what I've already said; lengthen the drawbar. I don't know what the drawbar is actually like - I'll look at a model on Monday - but even if you have to make a new one that is perhaps .030" to .050" longer that should be enough. Thom says he has tried this and ran into issues with the drive shaft binding. So? Fix it.

I've said this before; model railroading is ENTERTAINMENT (as a hobby); if you enjoy a project are you NOT entertained? And what if you don't succeed? There is always another Bachmann Shay out there and what you've learned with this one will certainly benefit the next one.

Btw way, folks, I've heard there is likely an 18% increase on Plastic Locomotives coming from China next year. Are y'all ready for that? But leave my nice, cheap, brass market alone so I can continue to enjoy REAL Value...

[tct855]

Ha-ha,
I'm going to stick to what Derrell said.  He's the man!  In fact, my go-to man.  Derrell lets tackle the speed matching question on the other thread.   Thanx Thom...

[7thStreetShops]

Thom,


Four of them? So you didn't learn your lesson the first time - had to come back for more... lol. Who am I to talk;  I worked on 3 of the 50 ton Climaxes - I'm damaged for life!

One can expect that changing the dynamics of a shay mechanism is going to require attention to multiple parts. That's just part of the job- er, FUN! My guess would be that the weight of 4 cars on the back of the shay was enough to bring the rear drive shaft slightly out of alignment and cause a bind. In fact, when you balance a model you want it to tip forward by about 1/4 to 1/2 oz. in order to mitigate the drawdown of pulling a load.

The value of a job is purely in the mind of the participant. If you are trying to make a living as a model "master mechanic" STAY AWAY from Plastic. If you love to tinker - the pure "doing" for enjoyment of Doing - the value is IN the "doing". If model trains is some kind of an investment - seek professional help! If you just want to run trains buy a whole bunch of them so you can pick out the ones you need from those that work okay out of the box. The real railroads had whole departments for the "doing" to keep their "models" running; So! Are we somehow above all that?

Learning is an inherent "value" we seem to often forget about...
                                               

[7thStreetShops]

Thom, one thing at a time, my friend. I can only multi-task one thing at a time...

For instance - I find it tough to hang out on forums and talk AND make a living at the same time - Arf!

[tct855]

Ha-ha,

If funny as model train buffs, we want manufacturers to replicate everything in our scale, so they do.  Which ironically includes replicating all the same problems and maintenance nightmares the prototypes had, and we see now that they are down to running all the same two or three engine types today. (how would we want to model a layout with only two or three choices of diesel engines).

I support Marty, Tom, Derrell, myself or anyone who's willing to endure the energy it takes to make the hobby fit our preferences. Of course, it would be wundabar if manufacturers would solve all those close clearance, tracking, gearing, motor, decoder, lighting (etc.) challenges we all face, but then... what would we do with all that extra time & money we'd save?  Buy more?  T...

Hey Marty, what about FX animations for your model engines. ha. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-1Et6NlDz4