Fixing a brass Erie 2-8-4, Class S-4 for Erieman

[ACL1504]

Many months ago Erieman, Frank Baker, purchased a brass loco from a dealer. The loco is an Erie S-4 class 2-8-4 Berkshire. This brass locomotive was imported by PFM/Pacific Fast Mail and built by Fujiyama (Japan) in 1966.

Fujiyama was a high quality builder in the 1960's. This loco was built in 1966 and only 445 of this model were built.

Here's the kicker. It sold for $55.00 in 1966. I was just out of high school and in my Freshman year of college and $55.00 could have been a thousand dollars as far as my budget was concerned.

In 1998 the secondary market listed the loco value at $440.00. Since then the brass market has gone up and down several times.

I told Frank I would make the necessary repairs, touch up the paint and add a few details to make this model a show piece for his Morristown and Erie Railroad.

Since I'm still in the recovery mode, now is a good time to sit at the workbench and help out a great friend.

Now you have all the superfluous minutiae necessary to follow along.





Continued after a nice cold Diet Pepsi.

[ACL1504]

When I got the loco I noticed a few issues immediately. As a brass guy, I can say that I spot things most people wouldn't. This only comes from experience and years of repairing brass.

I know Thom Driggers can back me up on this. Many of you know Thom as the guy who paints and repairs brass for Mr. George Sellios, Dick Elwell as well a many others.

Painting, repairing, and working on brass locos is a dying art, if not lost already. I know there are a few painters around but not of the quality of Thom or myself. And, I'm not even in Thom's league. He is many cuts above me in brass repairs, etc. I'm not bragging, I'm only stating a fact.

I'm certainly not wanting to give anyone the idea that I'm haughty, meaning arrogantly superior. I'm just trying to say you get what you pay for when owning brass and having a true craftsman do the work of repairs and painting.

Many skills are necessary to work and repair brass locos. The same knowledge of fixing a 1:1 loco is necessary to make the repairs of side rods, eccentric cranks, driver quartering, balancing and the list goes on and on.

A brass model steam loco operates in the same fashion as the real thing and has the same issues when not working properly. This is where you pay for the knowledge to make the necessary repairs.

I guess I'm only saying that one shouldn't get "sticker shock" when getting a quote from a brass guy for painting and or repairs. My dad used to tell me, "If you can't afford the repairs, don't buy the car. Or, if you have to ask, you can't afford it."

Repairing and painting brass can run into 40 to 80+ hours. Even at $20.00 per hour you can easily get a price of $1600.00. This doesn't even cover hard repairs like getting it to run like a Swiss watch.

Okay, I did get a little side tracked and now I'm off the horse.

On to the repairs in a few.

[ACL1504]

Cosmetically speaking the loco is in pretty good shape. There are many paint dings or chips if you will. The front pilot is broken and bent, the tender "Erie" decal is chipped at the top, there is paint over spray on the driver tires just to mention a few noticeable issues.

In the photo below, notice the shine on the boiler. This effect is created by rubbing or brushing powdered graphite on the boiler over the paint.



This is a really great look to the boiler when done evenly. This graphite job is even but over done. Some of the graphite rubbing should have been applied to the side of the cab and tender. Notice the cab side is much cleaner than the boiler. The graphite was applied to the cab roof but not the sides.

More in a few.

[ACL1504]

Here is the tender side and offending decal herald.





This will need to be repaired.

Continued later this afternoon.

[ACL1504]

I'm going to install DCC in this loco for Frank. I'll use a TCS WOW Series 4 DCC decoder and TCS 1.5 inch 8 ohm speaker in the tender. To get this one to run smoothly the old DC Pittman motor has to go.




I'm not charging Frank anything for this as we have other arrangements. However, I'll track this loco and price at $25.00 per hour, which by the way, is very conservative. This should give you an idea of how quickly the price adds up.

Most painters charge $45.00 per hour or a certain amount per paint job. This will give you an idea of what my time is worth in working with brass.

At this time, I have 3.5 hours in the loco. That's $87.50 and I've just got started.

More tomorrow afternoon.

[S&S RR]

This is going to be a very interesting thread Tom.  I will be following along. 

[tom.boyd.125]

 Looking forward to Tom working his magic on this old brass locomotive. Never tried to do this type of work, but had a friend in Chicago who was real good at repainting, detailing and adding new can motors, but not any DCC work. Will be in the classroom taking notes for this adventure.
Tommy

[ACL1504]

This is going to be a very interesting thread Tom.  I will be following along.

John,

Thanks for following along. I'm sure I turned off a few people with the first three posts but it is what it is as they say.

Tom

[ACL1504]

Looking forward to Thom working his magic on this old brass locomotive. Never tried to do this type of work, but had a friend in Chicago who was real good at repainting, detailing and adding new can motors, but not any DCC work. Will be in the classroom taking notes for this adventure.
Tommy

Tommy,

Thom will be following along with TOM on this one. I will be discussing the DCC intall buy won't do a step by step here on the forum. There are plenty of YouTube videos on the subject.

I do appreciate you following along.

Tom

[GPdemayo]

I'll be watching too.....


I've sat here for 5 minutes trying to come up with something pithy to say about brass guys, hourly charges or dying arts, but I got nuttin'. This is really embarrassing. 

[tct855]

Nothing pithy needed to be said!

         I agree with Tom (ACL1504) repairing/rebuilding brass is a definite art form.  I've watched 7 other builders whom I've learned and watched working with Dcc and brass retire.  When Tom finishes this rebuild for Frank, I will know of only one other brass builder besides myself and he is way more expensive than me and I'm currently out of business due to life.

         That all being said, good plastic steam builders are just as rare as brass ones.  Tom I'll be watching this thread develop with interest.  Frank is lucky to have a talented friend like you sir.  You are a master builder and I'm proud to call you my friend.  Now If I can get you to finish a few dozen on my brass steamers for me so I can retire! ha.  Thanx Thom...

[jimmillho]

I'll be watching too.....


I've sat here for 5 minutes trying to come up with something pithy to say about brass guys, hourly charges or dying arts, but I got nuttin'. This is really embarrassing. 

I am never embarrassed watching a Craftsman at work.  I have seen, and been the recipient of, the Masters work.

Jim

[ACL1504]

I'll be watching too.....


I've sat here for 5 minutes trying to come up with something pithy to say about brass guys, hourly charges or dying arts, but I got nuttin'. This is really embarrassing. 

Greg,

That's okay, I'm not embarrassed to have you as a friend.


Thanks for following along on this one.

Tom

[ACL1504]

Nothing pithy needed to be said!

         I agree with Tom (ACL1504) repairing/rebuilding brass is a definite art form.  I've watched 7 other builders whom I've learned and watched working with Dcc and brass retire.  When Tom finishes this rebuild for Frank, I will know of only one other brass builder besides myself and he is way more expensive than me and I'm currently out of business due to life.

         That all being said, good plastic steam builders are just as rare as brass ones.  Tom I'll be watching this thread develop with interest.  Frank is lucky to have a talented friend like you sir.  You are a master builder and I'm proud to call you my friend.  Now If I can get you to finish a few dozen on my brass steamers for me so I can retire! ha.  Thanx Thom...

Thom,

Thanks for jumping in and for the very kind words of support. I was hoping you'd back me up on this issue.

You mentioned plastic steam, I don't touch them and refused to do any work on them.

Also, I forgot to mention that one must have patience and some "thinking outside the box" when making many of the brass repairs.

Two of the other painters I knew from the 80's and 90's are now retired from brass work of any kind.

I appreciate your support Thom.

Tom

[ACL1504]

I'll be watching too.....


I've sat here for 5 minutes trying to come up with something pithy to say about brass guys, hourly charges or dying arts, but I got nuttin'. This is really embarrassing. 

I am never embarrassed watching a Craftsman at work.  I have seen, and been the recipient of, the Masters work.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for checking in and for the kind words. I forgot you were one of my first victims, oops, I mean customers. Old Pere Marquette #1225 hasn't fallen to pieces yet has it?

Tom