Superior & Seattle Railroad Build (Volume 2) Started 2/25/17

[S&S RR]

Just catching up with your progress John.  Holy Cow!  Everything looks fantastic!  I really like that you've included "people" working in the machine shop.  Really adds another level of detail.  Love it!

Mark


Thanks for the kind words. We have all learned from George that it's all about the details - and telling a story.

[S&S RR]

I have spent the last week doing the detail work on the Locomotive Works and Mackenzie Mill. Lots of details taking lots of time. I spent most of the day today doing HO scale plumbing for the steam boiler that will power the machinery in the machine shop. I will post some progress pictures in a few days.

[bparrish]

John...

Have you considered having your structures evaluated for the AP.

Sticks in a box is not a reason to not consider it.  There has been a long debate about this sticks in a box idea. The fact that someone else put the sticks in the box somehow makes it unacceptable.

We have all seen poor assemblies of various craftsman kits and then there is the stuff we see on this forum.  I doubt that anyone on this forum could not have the AP structures certificate already done, or else well on the way.

Thanx John for your regular submissions to this forum.  It is motivational.

see ya
Bob

[S&S RR]

John...

Have you considered having your structures evaluated for the AP.

Sticks in a box is not a reason to not consider it.  There has been a long debate about this sticks in a box idea. The fact that someone else put the sticks in the box somehow makes it unacceptable.

We have all seen poor assemblies of various craftsman kits and then there is the stuff we see on this forum.  I doubt that anyone on this forum could not have the AP structures certificate already done, or else well on the way.

Thanx John for your regular submissions to this forum.  It is motivational.

see ya
Bob

Hi Bob


I have considered going for an MMR - I went as far as sitting down with Frank Baker and going through some of the documentation he did for his certificates.  As I'm writing this I don't know if Frank has his MMR, yet. As I complete my layout, I will have a number of scratch build structures along with many kits - some will be built looking like the pictures that come with the kit and some will only have a slight resemblance when I'm done with them.  Actually, I see a kit as a box full of parts. I know that many of the kit manufactures love to see what others can do with their box full of parts and one design idea.  I have had this conversation with George Sellios many times.


I see no difference in the skills that are required to build a kit verses building a scratch built model of a prototype building. In both cases the design is given to you. The kit has some of the materials cut to size. The good kits provide detail castings that are extremely less expensive than buying individual castings to make a quality model. This is true even if you buy the good kits at ebay prices.

It is truly all about the details.


The only problem I have with submitting my builds for certificates is the paper work and the time it would take away from building to complete it.  I spent 38 years doing the paper work - technical publications, patents, etc. for my engineering projects. I love designing, engineering, and building. I don't enjoy the paper work. My way of communicating with the model railroad community is through this build thread, for now. I may change my mind later - first by some potential magazine articles about the layout, and maybe later by pursuing my MMR.  For now, I have a railroad that I want to build and I'm having a great time doing it. I managed to collect, while I was working, a lot of boxes with sticks and wonderful detail castings in them that need to be built.


I hope this answers your question.

[deemery]

I'm with you, John.  It seems to me that the evaluation of the paperwork often is more important than the evaluation of the model (and the skill of the modeler.)  Having to worry "Did I hit all the talking points in my paperwork?" is not how I want to spend my modeling time.

NMRA is slow to realize this, but I think at least some groups are having "popularity contests" that are independent of the NMRA Achievement Program.  That's A Good Thing.

In fairness, the few times I've submitted models, I have learned from the evaluations.  (But the criticisms of the paperwork, such as "You should have pointed out XYZ" went out the other ear :-) )

dave

[bparrish]

John and Dave..........

You share some good points here.  Sorry John for taking over your post here. One response and I'll leave it alone.

Everyone has their horror story of some recalcitrant judge that made it and then decides that he is going to single handedly make it tougher for everyone that comes after.

In the northwest we have started allowing the modeler to sit with the judges and talk them through what they did and how they got it done.  This is about modeling not running a bureaucracy.   Dave you're right about the NMRA being slow about this but it is not endemic to the entire process.

I have a good friend who is an evaluator in central Oregon who asked me about the electrical certificate that he was working on.  I told him that if he smashed his own atoms for the electrons he would get a better score ! ! !

I don't care if a guy sat out in the woods for thirty years and told the trees how to grow and then planked his own lumber.  What is in front of me as a model?

I'm not a push over here for passing out certificates but I work hard at remembering that this is a hobby and the AP is about making better modelers.

And we have some pretty accomplished modelers on this forum.  Yourselves included.

With that...............................  I will now return you to control of your thread.

thanx
Bob

[S&S RR]

John and Dave..........

You share some good points here.  Sorry John for taking over your post here. One response and I'll leave it alone.

Everyone has their horror story of some recalcitrant judge that made it and then decides that he is going to single handedly make it tougher for everyone that comes after.

In the northwest we have started allowing the modeler to sit with the judges and talk them through what they did and how they got it done.  This is about modeling not running a bureaucracy.   Dave you're right about the NMRA being slow about this but it is not endemic to the entire process.

I have a good friend who is an evaluator in central Oregon who asked me about the electrical certificate that he was working on.  I told him that if he smashed his own atoms for the electrons he would get a better score ! ! !

I don't care if a guy sat out in the woods for thirty years and told the trees how to grow and then planked his own lumber.  What is in front of me as a model?

I'm not a push over here for passing out certificates but I work hard at remembering that this is a hobby and the AP is about making better modelers.

And we have some pretty accomplished modelers on this forum.  Yourselves included.

With that...............................  I will now return you to control of your thread.

thanx
Bob

Bob


There are no issues with you posting this topic on my thread - it's a build thread - all related model railroading topics are welcome. I think if the evaluation procedure was changed to a verbal walk through it would be of interest to more of the modeling community. NMRA I hope your lessoning.

[Slim Jerkins]

Yep, I have an aversion to paperwork anymore. That might explain the fact that I haven't posted any new LightBite articles on the ML site for a year or two.


We have one of those certification audits at work every year. Anyone familiar with them knows the volumes of paperwork they generate with all the verifying and validating activities required. Dave and I have shared many Dilbert cartoons on this subject. Suffice it to say, I don't want to add paperwork to my hobby. I think the paperwork, certificate programs and all that stuff reminds me of the white shirt and tie, pipe-smoking model railroader of the sixties. Nothing wrong with it; some people like that kind of structure.


I, on the other hand, am considering making some YouTube videos instead of writing articles. That way I don't have to worry about any dangling participles and comma splices. I just need to transition from being a basement dweller into a being a basement dweller that talks aloud to no one in particular. 


John - have you ever given any thought to lighting up that shop? 


-slim

[S&S RR]

Yep, I have an aversion to paperwork anymore. That might explain the fact that I haven't posted any new LightBite articles on the ML site for a year or two.


We have one of those certification audits at work every year. Anyone familiar with them knows the volumes of paperwork they generate with all the verifying and validating activities required. Dave and I have shared many Dilbert cartoons on this subject. Suffice it to say, I don't want to add paperwork to my hobby. I think the paperwork, certificate programs and all that stuff reminds me of the white shirt and tie, pipe-smoking model railroader of the sixties. Nothing wrong with it; some people like that kind of structure.


I, on the other hand, am considering making some YouTube videos instead of writing articles. That way I don't have to worry about any dangling participles and comma splices. I just need to transition from being a basement dweller into a being a basement dweller that talks aloud to no one in particular. 


John - have you ever given any thought to lighting up that shop? 


-slim

I take a break from thinking about bookcases (see Slims LightBite articles), drawing wiring diagrams and soldiering to find this post. Yes - slim I have thought about lighting up the Locomotive works. Step one was to reread the LightBite. Step two buy lots of LED stuff from Slim. If you look back a few pages I ordered some special shop lights from Slim and posted a picture. I will be documenting my journey into LED structure lighting here on my build thread.  I plan on lighting up all the structures in the Eagles Nest Yard. The current plan is to use two 18 volt power supplies that I bought from Slim. I will be using the books case design technique described in LightBite number 3. Do your home work and read them if you want to follow along. Actually, they are very good - but don't tell Slim. It was a great refresh to all that EE stuff I learned as part of my Mechanical Engineering education 40 years ago. It is amazing that I can remember all that stuff but not the names of the guys I met at the train meeting last night. Back to the workbench - pictures soon.


Oh I forgot.  QS9000 and all that paperwork did nothing for quality.  It was the MBA's and bureaucrats way of trying to understand what the Engineers, and skilled trades people were doing. They never did - only made everything cost more because of all the time spent on the paperwork.


Back to my trains. Slim if you want to cut and paste my pictures and edit the words fell free to use this journal of my experience with your stuff for your next LiteBites article.

[S&S RR]

And so the LED structure lighting journey begins.

[Slim Jerkins]

... It was a great refresh to all that EE stuff I learned as part of my Mechanical Engineering education 40 years ago. It is amazing that I can remember all that stuff

Lucky you. I found the notebook from my ME1020 Vibrations Analysis class from back then and have - absolutely - no - clue - whatsoever  what any of the Greek symbols and equations mean. Looks impressive though.


Rest easy folks, I didn't work for any companies that built airplanes or airplane power systems. 


-slim

[S&S RR]

I sat down this afternoon and used Slim's LightBite articles to design the lighting for the North End of the Eagles Nest Yard.  This will include all the lighting for the Roundhouse, the Locomotive Works, the Icing Platform, the coal tower, the water tower, and two other structures.  The power will come from one 18 volt power supply that will be plugged into the power strip right next to the Locomotive works.  The control panel for this will be in the facia just below the Locomotive works. I need to do some work to finish the diagrams in my log book and I will share the design and notes that I have prepared to keep everything straight. I will follow-up with photographs of the actual installation of all the LED's, and wiring as it progresses. My plan is to have photographs of the figures I'm using from Slim's article next to the photographs of my installation. 

[S&S RR]

The South End of the yard will have a similar control panel and circuit. This will power the Brambell's, Chippy Hollow, Isaac's Coal, Yard Tower, Sewall's, Fox Run, Swakhammer's, G. Wiliker's, and Barnstead Lumber structures. I have plans for some additional track side structures and features that will also be part of the same circuit.

[sdrees]

Hi John,

Your engine house and machine shop look great.  I like your machinery and the guys working on the machines.  It seems to me now you need a lot of clutter like Brett provides in his kits.

Have you considered the NCE lighting decoders for you lights.  If I understand there use, all you need to do is wire then to your bus wires and hook up your light to the decoders.  The decoders are cheap.  When I was building some of my structures, I procrastinated about putting lights in them and kept on procrastinating and didn't do it.  Now I am kicking myself in the butt.  I am going to go back and see if I can do it retroactively.  Like you say only I know what is inside the buildings and I had fun doing them, but I would still like to see them.

As to your AP, I have earned merit awards for my sticks in a box projects to count towards my Structures AP.  You are required to build 12 structure, at least 6 can be scratchbuilt and rest kits.

[S&S RR]

Hi John,

Your engine house and machine shop look great.  I like your machinery and the guys working on the machines.  It seems to me now you need a lot of clutter like Brett provides in his kits.

Have you considered the NCE lighting decoders for you lights.  If I understand there use, all you need to do is wire then to your bus wires and hook up your light to the decoders.  The decoders are cheap.  When I was building some of my structures, I procrastinated about putting lights in them and kept on procrastinating and didn't do it.  Now I am kicking myself in the butt.  I am going to go back and see if I can do it retroactively.  Like you say only I know what is inside the buildings and I had fun doing them, but I would still like to see them.

As to your AP, I have earned merit awards for my sticks in a box projects to count towards my Structures AP.  You are required to build 12 structure, at least 6 can be scratchbuilt and rest kits.

Steve


Thanks for stopping by the thread. I have moved the Locomotive build to it's location on the layout and started wiring it for the LED lights. There will be LED flood lights on the pit side of the structure and shop lights on the machine shop side. On the outside of the structure I plan on 5 goose neck lights on the building and another 5 mounted on poles that will light up the salvage yard and loading dock areas.  I will then be adding lots of clutter, especially on the outside of the Locomotive Works where there will be a locomotive salvage yard.  I'm also adding LED lighting to the Stone Roundhouse at the same time. I too, procrastinated.


I would encourage you to go back and light up your structures - I think it really adds to the realism - especially when you have taken the time and effort to add interior detail.  Although, I usually have removable roofs on the structures I build with interior detail - I want the detail to be visible when the roof is on. Just the way I roll, as they say. I consider the removable roof as a maintenance feature.