The Devil isn't in the details, he's in the Brass!

ACL1504 · November 10, 2017, 01:10:39 PM

Okay, I guess I have your attention now!

I've made several brass repairs over these long years of working/playing with brass locomotives. I guess I could have extended the Baker Brass thread but I want this one to be a stand alone.

The original thread is here.

http://modelersforum.com/rolling-stock/fixing-a-brass-erie-2-8-4-class-s-4-for-erieman/

The reason this thread is separate is I've never come across an issue with brass like I have with this one. I want to show ya'll the problem and how it was fixed.

This loco is a very good piece of brass. It is a United/PFM and was built by Fujiyama (Japan) in 1966. So, keep in mind the loco model is 51 years old. It is older than the prototype when they were all scrapped.

Here is the loco-

More in a few.

ACL1504 · November 10, 2017, 01:29:09 PM

The reason I say the devil is in the brass is because there seems to be one every so many that just gives me fits.

I know our good friend Thom Driggers of TCT and Derrell Poole of NWSL have also had devil brass projects.

A brass devil is one that just seems to never go away. It's not that the repairs are hard. The issue is there just seems to be something going wrong all the time. Old locomotives just require a lot of maintenance.

The good news is that the loco is now running as it should.

Frank: "Hey Tom, I thought you fixed the loco"?

Tom: "I did, what is the problem now"?

Frank: "Keeps stopping and no sound"!

Tom: "Send it bacK. (**(^)(&&%$^$*!

Diet Pepsi time.

ACL1504 · November 10, 2017, 01:43:39 PM

The brass Erie 2-8-4 arrived back at the A&S RR repair shop and the management read over the list of issues and started the repairs.

I first thought the WOW decoder was bad as it was a first generation WOW decoder.

There was a possibility the old Sagami motor was going bad, This Sagami, once sold by NWSL and made in Japan, is now 35+ years old.

Reference the WOW decoder -

The first generation WOW decoders had some devils in them of their own. The decoders would over heat and stop working. This required the loco crews to let it cool for 90 minutes and start over. A few minutes later the decoder overheats and we do the dance all over again.

Reference the Sagami can motor -

If the motor was going bad, this would put a strain on the decoder and cause it to over heat. We now have the same problem mentioned above.

This is a lot of reading so I'll take a quick break or rather give ya'll a break.

To be continued.

ACL1504 · November 10, 2017, 01:58:54 PM

I contacted Mike at TCS WOW and he agreed to send a new decoder. The old decoder was a series III (3) and the new one is a series four.

I got a call from Mike at TCS and he said the old decoder worked/tested fine. He still gave me the new upgrade for the loco.

When I looked closely at the loco and tender, I noticed the tender wheels weren't all sitting evenly on the rails.

This is when I discovered an issue I've never had in repairing brass.

The tender trucks sit on the truck bolster. The tender trucks should only sit on the bolster and not the center frame support channel. The bolster should be higher than the frame support. On this loco the tender trucks rested on the center tender frame support and a part of the bolster.

In the next photo, you can see the center support is higher than the tender bolster. In fact, you can't see the bolster as it sits lower and between the "U" channel support.

More in a few.

ACL1504 · November 10, 2017, 02:04:53 PM

The pencil point is in the center of the bolster. You should be able to see the side of the bolster.

If the bolster was at the correct height, you would see it in the photo.

Even though this next photo is from the top down and not the side, you can see the bolster is below the two support beams.

The top of the tender truck was riding on the beam edges and not the bolsters.

More in a few.

ACL1504 · November 10, 2017, 02:31:08 PM

I did a polarity test on the motor and there is no short, the 20 X 32 mm Sagami mortor is still good. The decoder wasn't bad. What was causing the problems Frank was having?

Not sure; however, I do know that The Devil and Mr. Murphy are related.

Another small but very important issue found was on the tender truck itself.

When viewing the truck, look at the side frame closest to you in the picture. Now look at the flat portion where it bends down and is attached to the side frame. Notice the left arm is slightly higher in relation to the inside of the frame?

This means it isn't exactly level. This slight difference ins height causes the tender truck to not sit level. This was also exaggerated when the tender truck rested on the center beam and not the bolster.

The side frame is held to the tender frame by two very small screws. The one hole is drilled just slightly lower than the one on the right.

Also note in the photo above where the tender frame has rubbed the edges on the center. These can be seen on each side of the bolster hole on the truck.

More in a few.

ACL1504 · November 10, 2017, 02:38:55 PM

I'm writing way more than is necessary here and I don't want ya'll to get bored and loose interest. I'll finish this rather quickly now.

The next photo shows the center support frame and where I used the Dremel cut off disk to remove portions of the frame.

By removing the sides of the center frame support it allows the bolster to sit normally and allows the tender truck to swivel freely on the bolster.

Continued in a few.

ACL1504 · November 10, 2017, 02:43:05 PM

Frank also mentioned the pilot(front) truck would at times derail. I did two things to help prevent this.

I added a few ounces of weight to the top side of the front truck to allow it to ride and track better on the rails.

I also noticed the pivot arm was not swiveling smoothly. I used a very fine tooth file to remove the burrs around the hole.

The Devil isn't in the details, he's in the Brass!

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